I have to say Hardtrails hits it on the head here. The left hates guns and gun rights, just as they feel allowing us to keep our money is a tax expendature. The logic just isn't there as Hardtrails has so eloquently shot down every argument to the contrary. I like my Canadian friends and my English friends but they are generations deep in a different philosophy which has worked apparently well for them. I can't claim to understand the left on much of anything as so much of the argument whether it be tax fairness or gun control is based on emotion and you need to ignore logic, truth and simply correctness for much of it to ever be taken with a straight face. These incidents will continue to happen as do other tragedies. The reactions to each again broadly speaking seem to revolve around more government control, a right to our stuff instead of protecting our rights and an incesent push for a lower standard of living via higher taxes and more spending.
Should the United States have better gun control ???
- Thread starter Denali n DOO
- Start date
HARDTRAILZ
Moderator
- Nov 18, 2011
- 49,665
Denali n DOO said:
Were they locked up? Did he kill her for the keys?
If she did not have her weapons stored responsibly...as harsh as this will be...she got what every irresponsible owner risks. As posted by our own Army Vet redleg6 "Misuse or improper use can kill someone or yourself.... Of course anything illegal with a firearm is improper use. I just figure gun control starts with ownership."
If it comes to light that she was improper in her storage of her weapons, then she is part of the reason for her death. She was not forced to own those guns, but she did accept the responsibilty of them in purchasing and keeping them. It was her choice...both to own the guns and how to store them.
I am not missing the point, but you are. It is not only protection the right gives, but freedom and responsibilty. She made the choice to accept the personal responsibility that every gun owner has in the care and use of their chosen weapons. As I said above...the Constitution does not force anyone to own or use a firearm. Many people do not want to own or handle firearms. Good for them. I applaud their ability to choose the course of action suitible to their needs/wants/desires. The Constitution does not say that if you own a gun you must carry it for protection. A good portion of gun owners keep their weapons locked up in their homes for extended time periods. Hell they may never get them out. But they do have something if tyranny is upon us or a disaster occurs or if they want to go shoot holes in paper on Sunday.
For me to carry my sidearm for protection, I not only showed ID when purchasing and submitted myself to a NCIS background check, I also was fingerprinted and filed the proper paperwork and waited for my permit to be issued. I had plenty of time to accept or deny the responsibilty carrying a weapon on my person entails. i did accept that responsibility. I am proud to have the slef-control and confidence to carry and thankful that I have the Right to do so. I also pray I never have reason to draw it again.
Denali n DOO said:
Yes. You can compare them. As the great Spanish philosopher George Santayana (1863-1952), said in The Life of Reason (5 volumes, 1905-6): "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." Those are not straws I grasp, but facts.
IMHO, there is such a deep divide between the "sides" that nobody is going to change their mind by reading one "aha" point. As somebody just mentioned in a PM, if you "get it", no explanation is needed. If you don't, no explanation is enough.
Life is not going to be risk-free unless all evil-doers are controlled. Anything can be used as a weapon, so working the problem from that end is ultimately futile. But even if there were no evil-doers, there would still be disease, environment, accidents, and so forth.
The fact that the government cannot be trusted to keep our best interests protected is proven by the TSA. 3-4 years ago, would ANYBODY believe the government would station unarmed clerks in airports, dress them up in blue shirts and tin badges to make the populace think they are sworn law enforcement officers (they are not), empowered to grope the genitals of wheelchair bound disabled vets, the chest and buttocks of 9-year-old girls, throw away your snowglobes, and rifle through your wallets, all claiming to improve the security of jets with armored cockpit doors? Who the frack are they kidding?
Life is not going to be risk-free unless all evil-doers are controlled. Anything can be used as a weapon, so working the problem from that end is ultimately futile. But even if there were no evil-doers, there would still be disease, environment, accidents, and so forth.
The fact that the government cannot be trusted to keep our best interests protected is proven by the TSA. 3-4 years ago, would ANYBODY believe the government would station unarmed clerks in airports, dress them up in blue shirts and tin badges to make the populace think they are sworn law enforcement officers (they are not), empowered to grope the genitals of wheelchair bound disabled vets, the chest and buttocks of 9-year-old girls, throw away your snowglobes, and rifle through your wallets, all claiming to improve the security of jets with armored cockpit doors? Who the frack are they kidding?
Voymom
Member
- Feb 3, 2012
- 2,523
He apparently shot and killed his mother while she was in bed asleep. She had no right owning firearms if she could not be responsible for them.
My gun is either on me, or locked up where no one can get to them, not even my own husband(he has his own) has access to mine.
We dont need more gun laws, we need more people with common sense, responsibility and accountability....those who use guns to kill innocent people have none of that nor do the people who allow their guns to be stolen. People who accidently shoot themselves are just examples of darwin-ism and pure stupidity and should have never handled a firearm.
Gun control seems to have worked great for Chicago, even Conn. has strict gun regulations which did not keep those 26 people alive.
When the goverment knocks on your door and takes your kids or other family members...you can Thank your almighty gun control for that. Once we are disarmed....we're screwed.
My gun is either on me, or locked up where no one can get to them, not even my own husband(he has his own) has access to mine.
We dont need more gun laws, we need more people with common sense, responsibility and accountability....those who use guns to kill innocent people have none of that nor do the people who allow their guns to be stolen. People who accidently shoot themselves are just examples of darwin-ism and pure stupidity and should have never handled a firearm.
Gun control seems to have worked great for Chicago, even Conn. has strict gun regulations which did not keep those 26 people alive.
When the goverment knocks on your door and takes your kids or other family members...you can Thank your almighty gun control for that. Once we are disarmed....we're screwed.
Wow! So much hostility. My original question was what is your opinions to stop this senseless violence. I was hoping for more unified suggestions on what could be done to stop the people that commit these crimes, not rehash gun control laws that have not worked and theoretically can not work given the sheer amount of guns already in the hands of citizens. The argument that the mother did not follow "rules of ownership"(whatever that is) is not much of an arguing point. I don't know if she kept them locked up or HOW she kept them locked up. As I stated earlier, I keep my guns in a gun locker. That is a reasonable attempt to secure my firearms, do you not agree? Is my gun locker inpenetrable? NO. Is there a way to make sure that no one could get to them? NO. Fort Knox can be breached if someone wanted to badly enough. Can someone break into your car even though you keep it locked? YES. Canada has pretty strict gun regulations. Will that stop all the crimes up there that involve firearms? NO. My point here is, again, there are no absolutes in this argument. We do not live in a perfect world. You could do this, or that, or this, but there are always variables. The fact is that there is evil in this world. And the point being made about Hitler just proves that. A one time civilized country(Germany) was disarmed by the government(think gun control) and taken over by a madman. Read the history. Awe, that could never happen again....
Now, can we concentrate on what we could do to stop the PEOPLE that commit these crimes?
Now, can we concentrate on what we could do to stop the PEOPLE that commit these crimes?
animal
Member
- Dec 4, 2011
- 991
To me the laws are kind of like the locks on the doors and windows of your home. They are there to keep an honest man honest. If someone wants into your home bad enough they WILL get in. If someone is intent on doing harm they will get the gun (knife, car, plane, fertilizer.etc....) by some other means than abiding by the law or rules that "We the people" put forward.
northcreek
Member
At 19 the Government conscripted me and said:
> You will now travel the world
> See strange new lands
> meet interesting new people....and kill them!
Now they are all worried about my safety?...this outta be good
..Mike
> You will now travel the world
> See strange new lands
> meet interesting new people....and kill them!
Now they are all worried about my safety?...this outta be good
..MikeTo the simple question of what can we do to stop these people/type of events?
Very little. There are unstable people out there. They are just that, unstable and unpredictable. People also occasionally, for lack of a better term, lose it. Statistically these type of events account for a tremendously small portion of people that die in crimes. Trying to account and legislate for an event that happens so infrequently is equivelent to making national policy based on the needs and medical problems of people that are albino.
It's terrible when it happens, I'm not making light of it in any fashion. But you've got to put it into perspective.
Very little. There are unstable people out there. They are just that, unstable and unpredictable. People also occasionally, for lack of a better term, lose it. Statistically these type of events account for a tremendously small portion of people that die in crimes. Trying to account and legislate for an event that happens so infrequently is equivelent to making national policy based on the needs and medical problems of people that are albino.
It's terrible when it happens, I'm not making light of it in any fashion. But you've got to put it into perspective.
Sparky
Member
- Dec 4, 2011
- 12,927
Blame the PERSON not the object. A gun doesn't make a good person a murderer (nor does any other object), and preventing said good person from having a gun doesn't stop the bad guy from using a gun to kill someone else.
Gun control laws are so effective because we all know how well criminals obey the laws. Oh wait...
All else aside, the 2nd Amendment guarantees our right to having them. It "might" increase a risk, but I'd prefer a slightly increased risk of civilian doing something stupid with a firearm over having absolutely no recourse against a tyrannical government. Disarming the public is one of the first things a lot of the dictators did in their countries. Which has caused more harm? Think about that a moment, and let's not go down that path.
Gun control laws are so effective because we all know how well criminals obey the laws. Oh wait...
All else aside, the 2nd Amendment guarantees our right to having them. It "might" increase a risk, but I'd prefer a slightly increased risk of civilian doing something stupid with a firearm over having absolutely no recourse against a tyrannical government. Disarming the public is one of the first things a lot of the dictators did in their countries. Which has caused more harm? Think about that a moment, and let's not go down that path.
Sparky said:
We've already covered this ground. We do blame the person. So what do we do with the person? How do we identify people that would be considered "at risk" to do evil...deadly evil? And then what do we do with them? Create a standard that we can predict persons with a high likelyhood of violence(you all know someone like this, the school bully, etc.) and then what do we do?
HARDTRAILZ
Moderator
- Nov 18, 2011
- 49,665
Badbart said:
We just need to enforce the laws in place and not have a revolving door system. Give everyone the maximum or worse.
You probably never will be able to identify those at risk... if you could predict crime then there wouldn't be crime.
Its just not possible to answer what you ask and it is not the true debate of this thread.
HARDTRAILZ said:
1. Everybody goes back to "Gun Control Laws". How does enforcing gun control laws have any effect on a person who plans to kill themselves after they massacre? They don't care. They're making plans to be dead! My question was how to find a way to PREVENT senseless killings/violence. I still contend that the only way is to meet force with force. It's just going to cost us taxpayers more money to pay for these extra services by law enforcement/SRO's.
2. I believe you are correct. There is no answer to that question! But the knee jerk reaction is to "find a way" to stop this! And Obama has put Joe Biden in charge of this mission, doesn't that instill confidence? It's really gonna get stupid now! So that means, we don't have any idea what to do to fix this, but we're gonna do something, even if it's wrong! Should be entertaining....
I hear Wal-Mart has run out of semi-auto rifles at their stores today. When you go to a gun show this weekend you'll probably see that the price of "assault rifles" has doubled. If they have any left. Along with the ammo. Did you hear about China yesterday? Demanding that we increase our gun control laws? That we are "out of control"!? This coming from a nation with such a stellar human rights policy and shoots their own citizens for staging a protest. They probably just don't want any resistance when they come to foreclose on the note Obama's making interest payments on.
Sparky
Member
- Dec 4, 2011
- 12,927
To be quite honest and blunt, there is no way to totally prevent all freaks from doing dastardly deeds. I know, not a pleasant thing to think about, but some stuff is just never going to be preventable because we simply cannot know what every person is plotting. Heck some people don't even plot anyway, they just go and do. We can identify some freaks and stop them beforehand, yes, but not everyone. Just isn't possible.
No one should take China's demands in stuff like this seriously. They have no room to talk.
No one should take China's demands in stuff like this seriously. They have no room to talk.
Badbart said:
What do we do with the person... if it was after some heinous crime like what was done at Sandy Hook we use to execute. Now we generally put them in jail for life and take care of them. If they are found to be mentally ill (as in no concept of wrong or right) we institutionalize them and leave them there for life. We shouldn't be trying to rehabilitate these cases. The fact that these people often commit these acts where there is a very low chance of confrontation leads me to believe they are very aware of the consequences of their actions.
In the case of identifying these people. I believe we have the systems in place. I would rather a few people slip through the system that maybe shouldn't than have the standard high enough that people that are fine but "a bit odd" get committed. We've been moving away from personal accountability and common courtesy as a society for quite some time and are trying to replace it with legislation. The end result is that instead of (in this case) treating the mentally ill different, we try to treat everyone like they're mentally ill. That's not a very free society.
As far as knowing someone like a bully in school, with a high liklihood of shooting up a group of people. I never have. Somebody that picks on/beats up a few kids in school isn't equivalent to a mentally ill monster in my book. Growing up I got bullied and did a little bullying over the years. We all turned out pretty alright.
We generally do a pretty decent job of identifying the mentally ill/unstable the way it is and are probably already too intrusive.
Badbart said:
according to a Supreme Court Of The US ruling LEO are in no way required to protect my life and property.
It also is not the role of LE to stop or prevent crime from occurring though they may if opportunity presents itself.
It IS the role of LE to generate a report on a crime, collect evidence, and to locate and apprehend possible suspects. Know that because of the above, the avg 12min response time is considered acceptable.
While LE presence is a deterrent in many cases, it doesn't gaurantee your safety.
Once again personal responsibility and the ability to protect yourself and your family is of the utmost value.
v7guy said:
1. Yeah, for lawsuit purposes, this is true. You understand that if SCOTUS had ruled otherwise the government would go broke even faster than Obama intended. I'm pretty sure it still says "To Protect and Serve" on many of the patrol cars though.
2. This is true. LEO's are encouraged to be seen. It is proven that presence alone is a deterrent to criminal activity.
By the way, I see where the school superintendents in Florida are asking the governor today to provide funding so that SRO's can be placed in all the elementary schools now.
HARDTRAILZ
Moderator
- Nov 18, 2011
- 49,665
I had an interesting conversation on this topic last night with a highly educated and intelligent gentleman. This man is NOT a gun owner, but does fully support the 2nd Amendment and does not want Rights infringed upon.
Here is what he had to say:
He compared guns to prescription medicine... Something designed for good, to help people. But when they end up in the hands of the wrong people, there are negative results. He said, today we have stricter regulations on prescription drugs than we have ever had, yet prescription drug abuse is at an all time high!
Here is what he had to say:
He compared guns to prescription medicine... Something designed for good, to help people. But when they end up in the hands of the wrong people, there are negative results. He said, today we have stricter regulations on prescription drugs than we have ever had, yet prescription drug abuse is at an all time high!
Interesting. NRA says put armed officers in ALL schools! Same thing I've been saying. They also exposed where Obama stripped away funding from law enforcement and security this past year and for 2013....imagine that. From the same leader that failed to provide security for our people in Benghazi! Maybe they should have sent Joe Biden over there to talk gun control....
- May 22, 2012
- 5,596
Just heard a quote from NRA, that I liked
"the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun.....is a good guy with a gun"
"the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun.....is a good guy with a gun"
HARDTRAILZ
Moderator
- Nov 18, 2011
- 49,665
- May 22, 2012
- 5,596
Just trying to understand US laws. So regarding gun free school zones, in a State that allows you to carry a gun in public, is that that you just aren't allowed to take the gun on school property? That's pretty crazy if that's what it means 
...are they expecting the crazy person to follow the law?
...are they expecting the crazy person to follow the law?
HARDTRAILZ
Moderator
- Nov 18, 2011
- 49,665
You mean like I work in the government building with the State Police a couple floors below me and I can carry a gun in my car into the parking lot and leave it locked in the car in the parking lot, but can not bring it in the building....
So rather than me, with a Personal Protection Permit allowing me to carry concealed or open and a legally bought weapon, being able to have my weapon on my person with the police right by me; just in case I turn into a zombie or something, I must leave my protection in my vehicle in an unattended lot which the general public can access??????????
These law makers are smart.
So rather than me, with a Personal Protection Permit allowing me to carry concealed or open and a legally bought weapon, being able to have my weapon on my person with the police right by me; just in case I turn into a zombie or something, I must leave my protection in my vehicle in an unattended lot which the general public can access??????????
These law makers are smart.
- May 22, 2012
- 5,596
Badbart said:
I'm learning a lot reading these posts and some of this stuff like gun free zones is just ridiculous. I heard 2 things today that may come as a result of the Newtown tragedy. First, the NRA is recommending an armed security person in EVERY school, which is exactly what you suggested. I hope that gets put in place soon. Second, here in Ontario they are putting a locked door policy in EVERY school and video camera's in any school where the front door isn't visible from the office. They want it in place by September 2013 start up. I know here up North we're usually behind the US in a lot things but I hope we have armed security people or SRO's in Every school real soon.
Who knows, maybe a gun will be on my Christmas list next year
HARDTRAILZ
Moderator
- Nov 18, 2011
- 49,665
Denali n DOO said:Who knows, maybe a gun will be on my Christmas list next year
I tried to buy 3 at lunch today... hopefully at least one works out over the holidays.
- May 22, 2012
- 5,596
HARDTRAILZ said:You mean like I work in the government building with the State Police a couple floors below me and I can carry a gun in my car into the parking lot and leave it locked in the car in the parking lot, but can not bring it in the building....
So rather than me, with a Personal Protection Permit allowing me to carry concealed or open and a legally bought weapon, being able to have my weapon on my person with the police right by me; just in case I turn into a zombie or something, I must leave my protection in my vehicle in an unattended lot which the general public can access??????????
These law makers are smart.
Ya, that is just plain stupid
, and those in power don't get it, WTF 
Don't bring your gun into the mall, leave it in the car where it would be safer
In the politicians world-o-wonder, many crazy people are so double-secret-crazy that they might actually obey the law.Denali n DOO said:
But all it takes is ONE crazy to be just-under-that-threshold crazy, and bad things continue to happen.
Laws are no deterrent to the true sociopaths. As the saying goes, when seconds count, the police are mere minutes away.
HARDTRAILZ
Moderator
- Nov 18, 2011
- 49,665
Denali n DOO said:Just trying to understand US laws. So regarding gun free school zones, in a State that allows you to carry a gun in public, is that that you just aren't allowed to take the gun on school property? That's pretty crazy if that's what it means
Here in MN back in early 2000's, I think 2003, the state legislature passed a law allowing guns to be brought to school by staff if they have a conceal and carry permit and if they receive permission from the administration such as the principal. This came to light after a staff member brought a gun to one of the shools somewhere in MN and of course the media didn't know about the law but there was no permission given either.
meerschm
Member
- Aug 26, 2012
- 1,079
HARDTRAILZ said:
That shows how far from the original patriots the current government truly is....
And yet another bogus Washington quote:
A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government
The actual quote:
A free people ought not only to be armed but disciplined; to which end a uniform and well digested plan is requisite: And their safety and interest require that they should promote such manufactories, as tend to render them independent on others, for essential, particularly for military supplies.
---George Washington's First Annual Message to Congress (January 8, 1790)
google is your friend.
do not confuse current propaganda motivated by politics and profit for historical fact.
HARDTRAILZ
Moderator
- Nov 18, 2011
- 49,665
Google is fun...
A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks.
--- Thomas Jefferson to Peter Carr, 1785. The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, (Memorial Edition) Lipscomb and Bergh, editors.
"The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that is good."
--- George Washington
"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property... Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them."
Thomas Paine (The Father of the american Revolution, author of Common Sense)
A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks.
--- Thomas Jefferson to Peter Carr, 1785. The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, (Memorial Edition) Lipscomb and Bergh, editors.
"The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that is good."
--- George Washington
"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property... Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them."
Thomas Paine (The Father of the american Revolution, author of Common Sense)
- May 22, 2012
- 5,596
Here's the press conference, even the hecklers can be heard.
[video=youtube;SZb8EXUrQTo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZb8EXUrQTo[/video]
[video=youtube;SZb8EXUrQTo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZb8EXUrQTo[/video]
Bartonmd
Member
- Nov 20, 2011
- 545
I just have a couple things for our Canadian friends, since there seems to be some confusion.
1. The evil-looking guns in the US, that people can easily (legally) get are semi-auto. Full-auto weapons that are legal to transfer were made before 1986, and require what ends up being around a 6 month background check, and a $200 tax stamp, and prices start at $10,000 for them. These legally-owned, transferrable full-auto guns are almost NEVER used in any crime.
2. It takes 1 person and a 6-ft crowbar available at any home improvement store to break into most sub-$2000 safes. At the very worst case, it takes an angle grinder with some cutoff wheels to get into any safe.
3. Canada got rid of the registry because the stats showed that even though it cost a bunch of money, it did nothing to help curb crime.
4. If guns weren't available here, to either have somebody else buy for you, or to steal, there would be a black market for guns, like nearly every other country has. It's pretty well known that it's estimated that there are more illegal guns in England today than there ever were legal ones.
5. Despite a pretty strict gun control in much of Europe, they have roughly the same number of public mass shootings as the US does.
List of rampage killers: Europe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
List of rampage killers: Americas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
6. The thing about Nazi Germany is relivent. They also said "we're a modern, civilized country. That could never happen here." right before millions of thier own people were rounded up and exterminated. We've also had some interesting laws come up, recently, going in that direction. Check out these two links. There's a defense bill that just passed that gives the military the ability to pre-emptively hold US citizens indefinitely, without trial, if it thinks they may commit a crime at some later date. There was an amendment put into the bill to say that you couldn't be held for more than 3-4 weeks without trial, but it was stripped from the bill at the last minute. We all laughed at the tin-foil had crowd talking about FEMA camps being set up all around the country, capable of holding a LOT of people, but it's turning out that this is what they may be for.
[video=youtube;Vr9NCZP_fbU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vr9NCZP_fbU&feature=player_embedded[/video]
NDAA Indefinite Detention Provision Mysteriously Stripped From Bill
Mike
1. The evil-looking guns in the US, that people can easily (legally) get are semi-auto. Full-auto weapons that are legal to transfer were made before 1986, and require what ends up being around a 6 month background check, and a $200 tax stamp, and prices start at $10,000 for them. These legally-owned, transferrable full-auto guns are almost NEVER used in any crime.
2. It takes 1 person and a 6-ft crowbar available at any home improvement store to break into most sub-$2000 safes. At the very worst case, it takes an angle grinder with some cutoff wheels to get into any safe.
3. Canada got rid of the registry because the stats showed that even though it cost a bunch of money, it did nothing to help curb crime.
4. If guns weren't available here, to either have somebody else buy for you, or to steal, there would be a black market for guns, like nearly every other country has. It's pretty well known that it's estimated that there are more illegal guns in England today than there ever were legal ones.
5. Despite a pretty strict gun control in much of Europe, they have roughly the same number of public mass shootings as the US does.
List of rampage killers: Europe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
List of rampage killers: Americas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
6. The thing about Nazi Germany is relivent. They also said "we're a modern, civilized country. That could never happen here." right before millions of thier own people were rounded up and exterminated. We've also had some interesting laws come up, recently, going in that direction. Check out these two links. There's a defense bill that just passed that gives the military the ability to pre-emptively hold US citizens indefinitely, without trial, if it thinks they may commit a crime at some later date. There was an amendment put into the bill to say that you couldn't be held for more than 3-4 weeks without trial, but it was stripped from the bill at the last minute. We all laughed at the tin-foil had crowd talking about FEMA camps being set up all around the country, capable of holding a LOT of people, but it's turning out that this is what they may be for.
[video=youtube;Vr9NCZP_fbU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vr9NCZP_fbU&feature=player_embedded[/video]
NDAA Indefinite Detention Provision Mysteriously Stripped From Bill
Mike
HARDTRAILZ
Moderator
- Nov 18, 2011
- 49,665
Great points.
Being this is an automotive forum, I thought this gives some perspective. As responsible gun owners we find more gun control to make as much sense as this
Being this is an automotive forum, I thought this gives some perspective. As responsible gun owners we find more gun control to make as much sense as this
Bartonmd
Member
- Nov 20, 2011
- 545
Denali n DOO said:
This was a press conference, and most of the press in this country are both horribly, horribly leftist, but are also low class when it comes to points of view that differ from their own, despite how emotionally based and non-factual their opinion may be.
Mike
- May 22, 2012
- 5,596
Lol , I was over at my buddy's shop for the last few hours, after downing a few Bud's he decides he wants to debate with me about his topic of choice "Americans and their damn guns". Bad decision. After reading all the posts in this thread over the last few days I was able to shoot down his every argument from the perspective of an American living there. Ha Ha, he kept saying things like "oh that's a good point", "oh ya that makes sense", "are you kidding me". I even got to use the line "When seconds count...the Police are only minutes away", I knew I won the argument when he says "why don't you just move there". So I moved.........back to my shed! Now I'm enjoying more Bud's with my buds on GMTNation And listening to the scanner of course Live Waterloo Region Air Traffic Control, Police and EMS
, I was over at my buddy's shop for the last few hours, after downing a few Bud's he decides he wants to debate with me about his topic of choice "Americans and their damn guns". Bad decision. After reading all the posts in this thread over the last few days I was able to shoot down his every argument from the perspective of an American living there. Ha Ha, he kept saying things like "oh that's a good point", "oh ya that makes sense", "are you kidding me". I even got to use the line "When seconds count...the Police are only minutes away", I knew I won the argument when he says "why don't you just move there". So I moved.........back to my shed! Now I'm enjoying more Bud's with my buds on GMTNation And listening to the scanner of course Live Waterloo Region Air Traffic Control, Police and EMS
HARDTRAILZ
Moderator
- Nov 18, 2011
- 49,665