Should the United States have better gun control ???

[RayVoy]

Lol , I was over at my buddy's shop for the last few hours, after downing a few Bud's he decides he wants to debate with me about his topic of choice "Americans and their damn guns". Bad decision. After reading all the posts in this thread over the last few days I was able to shoot down his every argument from the perspective of an American living there. Ha Ha, he kept saying things like "oh that's a good point", "oh ya that makes sense", "are you kidding me". I even got to use the line "When seconds count...the Police are only minutes away", I knew I won the argument when he says "why don't you just move there". So I moved.........back to my shed! Now I'm enjoying more Bud's with my buds on GMTNation And listening to the scanner of course Live Waterloo Region Air Traffic Control, Police and EMS

You, my friend, have been brain washed. Grab a copy the today's Globe and Mail, and read about the NRA's stand.

Let's see, cops in all schools, what's next all Burger Kings and McDonalds. It's not my country, and I really don't care, but now a Canadian has been brain washed.

 

[Denali n DOO]

You, my friend, have been brain washed. Grab a copy the today's Globe and Mail, and read about the NRA's stand.

Let's see, cops in all schools, what's next all Burger Kings and McDonalds. It's not my country, and I really don't care, but now a Canadian has been brain washed.

Not at all , if you read my post it says "from the perspective of an American living there", but I don't live there and neither do you. You can't compare here to there. What's wrong with armed security to protect our kids at school anyway, the banks protect their money with armed guards don't they, aren't our kids more important than banks, to me they are. SRO's are armed, why not have them in every school? Makes sense to me. Ontario is doing something to protect our kids with locked door policy and video camera's in every school, if there was no danger then they wouldn't be doing this would they? What are the Atlantic Provinces doing to protect your kids? Did you hear recently in the States of a kid that took a gun to school, good thing the Principal had a gun and was able to disarm the kid. You'll never have Gun Control unless all the Guns in existence are eliminated and you start over. Here's a link to the Police Scanners in Atlantic Canada ,Live Police, Fire, EMS, Aircraft, and Rail Scanners on RadioReference.com , have a listen to whats going on in your neighborhood...

Oh and I wanted to add, we already have paid duty Police officers at our Burger King Friday n Saturday nights, and they are armed.

I'll admit that I was brainwashed once, and that was by the Budweiser company

 

[Bartonmd]

You, my friend, have been brain washed. Grab a copy the today's Globe and Mail, and read about the NRA's stand.

Let's see, cops in all schools, what's next all Burger Kings and McDonalds. It's not my country, and I really don't care, but now a Canadian has been brain washed.

The cops in school thing is the best way to deal with this, if you still want to stop regular law abiding citizens from carrying there. A lot of Jr High and High schools have paid police officers to be there, since I was in school (15 years ago).

Mike.

 

[BO TIE SS]

since I was in school (15 years ago).

Wow, Mike...you're just a young fart!

(this June will make 29 years for me)

 

[Badbart]

I'll never understand it, some people see a gun, or just think about a gun, and they freak out. Cops with guns should be a reassuring sight. These are the guys that will help you when things get ugly. It is sad that we need this kind of protection in our schools(and at Burger King)these days, but that's just the way it is now. As another poster pointed out, guns are not going away. Do you honestly believe that every gun owner in the US would actually turn in their guns? Everybody would just wake up tommorrow morning and say, "Oh, I think I'll take all my guns down to the Sheriff's Office and give them away because I think everyone is going to be good from now on and I will never need them anymore"!? What have you people been smokin? Evil is here....deal with it!

 

[blazinlow89]

The problem is that alot of people do not understand guns. God only knows what liberal politicians think, they seem to think the more restrictions, laws, and bans that are implemented and bad scary things disappear. History seems to be non existent, or they forget about things that have happened in the past.

Now politics aside alot of people who have never, seen, owned, shot, used, been near or felt a gun are either scared or want them gone. They seem to think that they will do bad things with an operator. I can under stand a fear of them if you have never been around one, but to say that you want guns banned because they are bad is ignorant. Without an operator a gun is a cold piece of metal, in the right hands it can defend freedom, your home, your loved ones and your own life, in the wrong hands it can cause harm and great suffering. Take guns away from the right hands in the equation and there is no force to defend against the wrong hands. Anything and I mean anything can be turned into or used as a weapon, sticks, forks, pens, pencils, tires, even flour (baking flour) can be turned into a weapon (watch mythbusters coffee creamer explosion). It requires little manufacturing and time to cause harm to others no matter what the weapon.

As unfortunate as it is, guns are also great for sport, competitions, hunting, skeet, etc. You can have alot of fun at a range with some friends, shooting to improve personal skills to gain a better understanding of control over the weapon is enjoyable. Respect for the weapon as well as knowledge of proper storage, cleaning, and usage all fall on the owner. If someone fails to respect the weapon, or understand the requirements to maintain and store it safely, then that person does not deserve the weapon. Respect is the first thing you should learn. Understanding that misuse or negligence can result in injury or death of yourself or someone else is part of it. Most criminals do not have this respect, they have the weapon for the intent of causing harm.

Removing rights from the law abiding will not change the behavior of the law breaking for the good.

 

[The_Roadie]

Wow, Mike...you're just a young fart!

(this June will make 29 years for me)

Planning to return to Massachusetts for my 40th college reunion next September.

Wait .... you guys are talking about HIGH school? We held classes in a cave, and had to roast mastodons for lunch.

 

[Badbart]

Planning to return to Massachusetts for my 40th college reunion next September.

Wait .... you guys are talking about HIGH school? We held classes in a cave, and had to roast mastodons for lunch.

40th!?! Didn't know they HAD college back then! Guess you had to use an Abacus to complete your degree. But you could still call Albert Einstein and ask him about theory....oh, wait, did you have telphones back then?

I'm not too many years behind you. I was class of '75. HIGH SCHOOL class of '75!

Now, back to our regularly scheduled debate....

 

[RayVoy]

Planning to return to Massachusetts for my 40th college reunion next September.

2014 will be my 50th

Guess you had to use an Abacus to complete your degree. .

Haha, I don't know about the roadie, but we used slide rules, an amazing invention (but that's for a different thread).

The problem is that alot of people do not understand guns.
As unfortunate as it is, guns are also great for sport, competitions, hunting, skeet, etc.

I grew up outside a small city, it was rural, we carried 22's like kids carry ball bats and gloves, we had fun with them and we used them to put food on the table. I still enjoy them, I hunt, I belong to a sheet club, I probably have as many guns as the average American.

The cops in school thing is the best way to deal with this,

And the next time, the NRA will call for an armed guard with each kid, in school and at play. I have a friend who grew up in Turkey, his father was a military officer, my friend and his family members each had an armed guard assigned to them for their protection.

You need to ask, where will it end.

 

[HARDTRAILZ]

Remove the armed guards from our politicians and our banks....then I don't think the schools will be as appetizing of targets.

Amazing that only non-US residents are wanting more gun control here. Msybe they have plans to invade us once disarmed.....

 

[RayVoy]

Amazing that only non-US residents are wanting more gun control here.

I don't care about your gun control, I like a good debate, but you were starting to convince my Ont buddy, so I had to take a stand

 

[HARDTRAILZ]

I don't care about your gun control, I like a good debate, but you were starting to convince my Ont buddy, so I had to take a stand

Thats because we use logic and support. Quite unlike like your posts which support nothing but give your opinion. You have given me nothing worth debating while this thread is full of supported arguments for limiting gun control and protecting our schools as the children are far more precious than our money or politicians that are currently protected by guns.

 

[RayVoy]

This is logic and support

Estimated guns for every 100 people:
- 90 US
- 31 Can

# of homicides caused by firearms (last year):
- 8,583 US
- 158 CAN

% of homicides caused by a gun (last year):
- 67% US
- 32% CAN

# of suicides caused by a gun (last year):
- 18,735 US
- 531 CAN

Max rounds in a magazine:
- No limit US
- 5 in long gun, 10 in handgun CAN

Note: Canada's population is aprox 1/10th of the US.

The United States has the highest (by a considerable margin) gun related deaths in the developed countries.


NRA suggesting that there should be a gun in every school is not logical.

 

[The_Roadie]

The United States has the highest (by a considerable margin) gun related deaths in the developed countries.

We coddle sociopaths with far too much gentleness and when they finally exhibit violence in public, some of them need to be stopped with deadly force. Some say we're too forgiving a culture in one's formative years. "Spare the rod..." and all that.

 

[RayVoy]

We coddle sociopaths with far too much gentleness and when they finally exhibit violence in public, some of them need to be stopped with deadly force. Some say we're too forgiving a culture in one's formative years. "Spare the rod..." and all that.

We are the same, society has gone too far, in the name of equal treatment and no discrimination. Today's society would have jailed my father for child abuse.

 

[Bartonmd]

This is logic and support

Estimated guns for every 100 people:
- 90 US
- 31 Can

# of homicides caused by firearms (last year):
- 8,583 US
- 158 CAN

% of homicides caused by a gun (last year):
- 67% US
- 32% CAN

# of suicides caused by a gun (last year):
- 18,735 US
- 531 CAN

Max rounds in a magazine:
- No limit US
- 5 in long gun, 10 in handgun CAN

Note: Canada's population is aprox 1/10th of the US.

The United States has the highest (by a considerable margin) gun related deaths in the developed countries.


NRA suggesting that there should be a gun in every school is not logical.

Even your titles for your statistics show your bias. "# of ____ "caused" by a gun". Bull. None of these things are caused by a gun. Further, we have a lot of other social issues that you don't. You don't have gang and drug problems to anywhere near the same sport (think several levels above "ballgame") as we do, which is where something like 90% of our gun crime comes from. The homicides "caused by a gun" that you cite also include lawful self defense and police action shootings. You can still get guns up there, and roughly the same percentage of households have a gun as the US. It only takes 1 shot to kill yourself, so magazine capacity or how "icky and scary" a gun looks has nothing to do with it.

The NRA is suggesting that we protect our kids in the same way as we have been protecting our political leaders (Incidentally, those who say that the rest of us don't need guns to protect ourselves, while they are surrounded by armed bodyguards) , our banks, our sports stadiums, and our streets. Police officers and/or security guards with guns. We've all already gone over the fact that laws do absolutely nothing to keep guns out of the hands of bad guys, but we do know from the numbers that a good guy with a gun does stop a bad guy with a gun, as every year, there are around 100,000 reports of guns being used in self defense; but we also know that not all of them are reported, and estimates of actual uses are between double to 10x that.

Mike

 

[blazinlow89]

I think tougher punishment is what is also needed. While it may not be the direct answer to the massacre shootings, it may help with the gang, or crime of opportunity incidents. It does nothing to deter the criminal when they are released less than 12 hours after being pulled off the street. It does nothing to make them know they do wrong when they only serve 1/3 or less of their original prison term. Scumbag lawyers, idiot district attorneys and lenient judges do nothing to stop crime. I would honestly not be against capital or "harsh" punishment for violent criminals. Child molesters, and rapist should be castrated, murderers who are convicted and sentenced to death should not be allowed to fester in prison for longer than 24 months. It may do something let criminals know that if they do something violent they are not going to get rewarded and serve 2 years out of 10 for something they do wrong.

I blame it on the current liberal hippie movement. Political correctness has gotten out of hand, I cant even post political memes on my facebook without being called a racist who wants women to suffer and gay people to be locked up in camps (i have been told this by my uncles husband). These are not my political or ethical views, I may lean republican but my political preference is geared more towards economical and foreign policy rather than social issues (things like abortion and marriage equality do not belong in politics). People take things out of context and offended by the simplest things. I think equality for all would be a great thing, but we have bigger things to worry about then social issues. If you want criminals to think twice before committing the same crime multiple times, give them a punishment that fits the crime. We have alot of things to fix I do not think gun control should be at the top of the list.

 

[RayVoy]

Even your titles for your statistics show your bias. .

Mike, to say I have a bias, suggests that I wrote the facts, I didn't, I found them and simply presented them (and no, I did not check the validity). A bias also suggests that I care; and, I think I made it quite clear, in previous posts, that I do not care. It's your country and I no business offering suggestions to fix an perceived problem.

# of ____ "caused" by a gun". Bull. None of these things are caused by a gun.

Don't quote me that NRA bull sh*t, we all know how it works.

 

[Bartonmd]

Mike, to say I have a bias, suggests that I wrote the facts, I didn't, I found them and simply presented them (and no, I did not check the validity). A bias also suggests that I care; and, I think I made it quite clear, in previous posts, that I do not care. It's your country and I no business offering suggestions to fix an perceived problem.


Don't quote me that NRA bull sh*t, we all know how it works.

For somebody who says they don't care, you seem like you care a whole lot. So... You're saying that you have no business doing exactly what you're doing?

You're right, we do all know how it works (well, everybody but you, anyway). Each person is responsible for their own actions. Cars and alcohol don't cause people to drive drunk, crash, and kill people. Fast cars don't cause people to drive double the speed limit, wreck, and kill people. Silverware and Big Macs don't make people fat. Guns don't jump off the table and start shooting people by themselves. All of these things are inanimate objects that need people to operate/use them to do anything but just sit there.

Mike

 

[Badbart]

I think the answer, in short, is this. Our kids are in danger due to some "unstable" people. What are we going to do? I'm going to protect them. I'm going to confront these people headon and this is going to stop! If they want to bring harm to my kids I'm bringing something for that! I'm NOT going to bury my head in the sand and wait for "gun laws" to work.(because they won't) I want those PUNKS to know that our kids are going to have armed protection and that your little punk *** fantasy is over. Better bring your "A" game, PUNK!

 

[Short Bus]

[video=youtube_share;2KqYDSwK5PM]http://youtu.be/2KqYDSwK5PM[/video]

 

[northcreek]

Two Firemen killed two injured when another nut job set his house on fire and then ambushed the first responders before poping a cap in his own sorry ass.This was in Webster,NY....This scumbag served 18 years in prision for killing his grandmother with a hammer.Six other houses burned down because the Firemen could do nothing also his sister is missing.......why was this guy released from prision after only 18yrs for such an unthinkable crime??

 

[mikeinDE]

Two Firemen killed two injured when another nut job set his house on fire and then ambushed the first responders before poping a cap in his own sorry ass.This was in Webster,NY....This scumbag served 18 years in prision for killing his grandmother with a hammer.Six other houses burned down because the Firemen could do nothing also his sister is missing.......why was this guy released from prision after only 18yrs for such an unthinkable crime??

I was just getting ready to mention this as well. Saw it on the news today. Crazy stuff!!

 

[blazinlow89]

Each person is responsible for their own actions. Cars and alcohol don't cause people to drive drunk, crash, and kill people. Fast cars don't cause people to drive double the speed limit, wreck, and kill people. Silverware and Big Macs don't make people fat. Guns don't jump off the table and start shooting people by themselves. All of these things are inanimate objects that need people to operate/use them to do anything but just sit there.

Mike

Exactly, a gun is a tool just like everything else. Much like a car, a hammer or an axe (I could actually list anything you can imagine) a gun is just a piece of cold metal, it has no feelings, it does not operate on its own. The person who controls the gun has the emotion, feelings and knowledge of what a gun is capable of. While you cannot predict who might snap, when, where or why, proper treatment and diagnoses can help prevent it. The source of the issue is not the weapon.

Also going onto what I have said about punishment, on the 21st a guy was arrested for unlawful possession of a handgun. The cops thought it was strange that he was sitting in the middle of the street in his car. When approached they noticed the handgun in his seat within reach (major no no in MD, very illegal and we have some of the toughest gun laws in the country). The officer arrested him and checked the weapon loaded, with a round in the chamber. To make it better the serial numbers had been ground off the weapon. Correct me if I am wrong but 2 of these are felonies. He was released 4 hours later on personal recognizance.

 

[BO TIE SS]

The cops thought it was strange that he was sitting in the middle of the street in his car.

This reminded me of something that happened in Columbus back in the early 90's. You've heard the phrase, "gun control means being able to hit what you aim at". (I know, a little off topic. Great video anyway)

[video=youtube;jDSwdZNbaGY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDSwdZNbaGY[/video]

Here's a picture of the gun...

View attachment 25575

 

[Metalsmith]

I didn't read all of this and don't intend too..... nothing anyone can say will change the way I think. I am a gun owner , have had guns since I was 5 years old , never came close to having an accident with a gun , as I was taught to respect and care for them ..... when I joined the military, I had already studied the weapons that I was to use and from memory could field strip, clean , and fire acurately all weapons issued to me. I fired Expert in all of the weapons, even the M60A1 105mm, tank I was issued..... I have 6 various weapons and can field strip and clean any of them in less 3 min , in the dark, rain, mud .... what ever..... I spent 11 years in the military and went to every school that a Non-commmissioned Officer , could ......My point ....I can control my guns ....... I am worried about people control and their need for various drugs and substances to make their life doable .... they just need to grow the hell up and deal with all the pain and suffering that they have to putup with in a world that is just getting tougher....... The one most important reason that the USA has never been invaded, is because we are an armed nation..... If you don't think that is the real reason , get out of my foxhole, for you are the enemy. I do not believe that there is a need for any weapon to fire more than 3 to 4 shots at a time .....Damn, learn to shoot and hit what you are shooting at !!!!! I do think it is a good idae for police and first responders and the military. America can only be defeated from with in.

 

[HARDTRAILZ]

I didn't read all of this and don't intend too..... nothing anyone can say will change the way I think. I am a gun owner , have had guns since I was 5 years old , never can close to having an accident with a gun , as I was taught to respect and care for them ..... when I joined the military, I had already studied the weapons that I was to use and from memory could field strip, clean , and fire acurately all weapons issued to me. I fired Expert in all of the weapons, even the M60A1 105mm, tank I was issued..... I have 6 various weapons and can field strip and clean any of them in less 3 min , in the dark, rain, mud .... what ever..... I spent 11 years in the military and went to every school that a Non-commmissioned Officer , could ......My point ....I can control my guns ....... I am worried about people control and their need for various drugs and substances to make their life doable .... they just need to grow the hell up and deal with all the pain and suffering that they have to putup with in a world that is just getting tougher....... The one most important reason that the USA has never been invaded, is because we are an armed nation..... If you don't think that is the real reason , get out of my foxhole, for you are the enemy. I do not believe that there is a need for any weapon to fire more than 3 to 4 shots at a time .....Damn, learn to shoot and hit what you are shooting at !!!!! I do think it is a good idae for police and first responders and the military. America can only be defeated from with in.

Thank You for your service!

 

[Bartonmd]

. I do not believe that there is a need for any weapon to fire more than 3 to 4 shots at a time .....Damn, learn to shoot and hit what you are shooting at !!!!! I do think it is a good idae for police and first responders and the military.

I was with you right until there. Even assuming that you were never defending your house against, say, 3 armed intruders (like the father fended off via gunfight in California a few days ago, before they did God knows what to all the little girls at the sleepover downstairs. Incidently, he was also wounded, possibly causing him not to be able to change magazines, if his mag didn't have the capacity to end the gunfight against the 3 armed intruders), knowing that a pistol is a really shitty self-defense weapon, as far as single-shot stops, why would you want to give law abiding citizens more of a shortcoming in firepower than the bad guys? Why would you want to make something illegal, because you don't FEEL (as opposed to "think") that it's needed?

You don't need a motor vehicle with more than 80HP. You don't need alcohol. You don't need a bunch of things that can cause people to die if used incorrectly, so why don't we make all of them illegal?

Mike

 

[Metalsmith]

Okay , I was meaning , which, I should have said, the " average citizen "....I also believe in compulsory 2 year military service, as Israel, and that the government should let you keep the weapons you have become "EXPERT" in .... ( the 2nd mentions "armed militia" )... ; ))...... I have been trained to be an armorer, and I can build 10 different weapons that can kill up to 200 yds easily.... I can enter and remove a person from a home without waking anyone in the house and I would not have a problem with termination , with extreme predjudice..... but I hope to never have to hurt anyone one again....I live with enough , as it is ....If anyone is offended by my views.....get over it !! ; ))))

 

[blazinlow89]

This is a good read, bit long but it covers alot of points from both sides. As unfortunate as it is I have had arguments with anti gun people that sound exactly as described.

An opinion on gun control « Monster Hunter Nation

 

[meerschm]

Admins,

can this thread be closed, or at least marked so it no longer shows up in what's new?

I have had enough.

my voter registration card and stack of DD 214s thank you.

 

[BO TIE SS]

Admins,

can this thread be closed, or at least marked so it no longer shows up in what's new?

Rather than closing the thread, the posts that were getting off-topic and/or personal have been removed.

As it was stated, this type of debate can become heated. Let's try to keep on track and the thread won't have to be closed. Let's not let our feelings get in the way of good judgement when posting.

Thanks.

 

[northcreek]

Admins,

can this thread be closed, or at least marked so it no longer shows up in what's new?

I have had enough.

my voter registration card and stack of DD 214s thank you.

I agree but,you can unsubscribe from this thread...I just did,Mike.

 

[Bartonmd]

Okay , I was meaning , which, I should have said, the " average citizen "....I also believe in compulsory 2 year military service, as Israel, and that the government should let you keep the weapons you have become "EXPERT" in .... ( the 2nd mentions "armed militia" )... ; ))...... I have been trained to be an armorer, and I can build 10 different weapons that can kill up to 200 yds easily.... I can enter and remove a person from a home without waking anyone in the house and I would not have a problem with termination , with extreme predjudice..... but I hope to never have to hurt anyone one again....I live with enough , as it is ....If anyone is offended by my views.....get over it !! ; ))))

I've said for a long time that things would get a lot better in this country if you had to do something to be a CITIZEN to be able to vote. Similar to the Starship Troopers book (the movie was stupid), where you had to either have been military, or do something to make something of yourself, in order to be a citizen.

However, the thing about being "expert" in certain weapons, or extra hoops to go through has a tenancy for the government to use it to make it extremely hard to get a permit to either carry or have certain weapons. NY does this, for instance. I have a friend with a carry permit in NY, and it was AMAZING the stuff he had to go through to get it. Knowing that, it's easy to see why, even though it's legal, not very many people in NY state have carry permits.

Since the second half of your post is what started the stuff that got deleted, I'll just say that I fail to see what that has to do with anything that we're talking about, and leave it at that.

Mike

 

[Badbart]

Thanks Bo Tie for fixing this and NOT closing it. In reference to Metalsmith's comment about the "3 or 4 shots" I think he was referring to a practical use of a semi-auto firearm(rifle, shotgun), such as hunting. As he did point out that it was a "good idea" for LEO's, etc. (to have high capacity mags). At least that's my interpretation. As for Bartonmd's comment on the pistol being a poor defensive weapon, first let me clearly state that this is not meant to be an abrasive evaluation. But his point of view does not reflect practical experience.
His comment would be applicable to a battlefield military situation, such as Iraq, where a single, well place sniper shot could neutralize a threat. In a domestic law enforcement application(or home defense)the sidearm is the preferred weapon as most firefights occur within 7 yards or less, not always allowing for a single, well placed shot. Many law enforcement agencies prefer a .45 for the knockdown power it offers at close range over the smaller calibers. Some still think that a smaller caliber offers less chance of collateral damage. But, unless you know how many bad guys are coming, and which street they're coming down, a sidearm is the more practical defensive weapon in a real-life scenario.
But this is not what this thread was about.

 

[Bartonmd]

I'm referring to FBI statistics, as far at number of hits per stop in police/LE shootings. It's a good weapon as far as always being able to have it on you, but is not nearly as effective as a rifle or shotgun in single shot stops. This is particularly true being that a lot of the people who a police officer or a citizen may have to neutralize would/could be on drugs, and literally the only way to get them to stop may be them being dead. I would contend that, per my previous comment about the homeowner fending off 3 armed attackers from his house, especially a pistol should have at least a 6-7rd mag, and the more the better. Said homeowner was wounded in the attack and kept firing back. Had he had a 3-4rd capacity firearm, and had to reload, an injury could cause one to not be able to reload, or to be slow enough to reload that the attackers would overtake him.

The reality is that, going back to the school/public shootings, you are more likely to win the lottery or get struck by lightning than you are to be killed in a public, active-shooter event. Being that the times that the standard designed capacity magazine actually mattering to body count in a public mass shooting is so small, and being that citizens use guns in self-defense many times more than the police use them to shoot somebody (ETA:Having said that, there are a lot more citizens than police, so it's not a %, but a total number), I would contend that if the police need standard design capacity magazines, citizens do, as well. Police also have partners and backup, where citizens normally don't.

Mike

ETA:
http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf
Bottom 3 paragraphs of of page 3 are pretty relevant to the discussion, as well as page 5.

 

[Metalsmith]

" per my previous comment about the homeowner fending off 3 armed attackers from his house, especially a pistol should have at least a 6-7rd mag, and the more the better. Said homeowner was wounded in the attack and kept firing back. Had he had a 3-4rd capacity firearm, and had to reload, an injury could cause one to not be able to reload, or to be slow enough to reload that the attackers would overtake him." ............. ( My contention was if he knew his weapon well .... he would not need more than 3 shots ! )

The reality is that, going back to the school/public shootings, you are more likely to win the lottery or get struck by lightning than you are to be killed in a public, active-shooter event. Being that the times that the standard designed capacity magazine actually mattering to body count in a public mass shooting is so small, and being that citizens use guns in self-defense many times more than the police use them to shoot somebody (ETA:Having said that, there are a lot more citizens than police, so it's not a %, but a total number), I would contend that if the police need standard design capacity magazines, citizens do, as well. Police also have partners and backup, where citizens normally don't.

Mike

ETA:
http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf
Bottom 3 paragraphs of of page 3 are pretty relevant to the discussion, as well as page 5.

The school shooting were buy a mentally deranged person ........ most of the mass shootings were/are by nut cases ......
I don't really think anyone can say, that it could have been stopped ..... he killed his mother and took hers....just like someone could kill me and take mine.... but I know that with a Desert Eagle, in my hand and a chance, it won't take 3 shots and for me the only thing that FBI report is good for, is if it is thick enough, it might shot a bullet.

$8.00 and a afternoon at a gun show in Fla.....will get you a carry permit..... but like a deer permit ....your still responsible for your kill.... I believe in the 2nd ....just don't think everyone needs a Mac 10.... some go hunting quail with shotguns...... i go with a small bag of corn and a CO2 powered BB gun....quail are qurious , you shoot one and make no noise ....wait ....and another will run out and see watch is wrong..... ; ))

 

[Bartonmd]

I do agree that you can't stop crazy people from killing people, no matter what the gun laws are. Even if you could put the gun genie back in the lamp, Tim McVeigh killed over 100 people and injured 6xx people with readily available supplies.

Indiana is a "Do you have a record? No? Give me your fingerprints and $75, and here's your permit" state. The only down side to that is that one has to get a permit from someplace with a class (like FL or UT. I have a UT non-res permit) to be able to carry in states that only honor permits for states where you have to take a class.

Mike

 

[benz01]

You want to talk about a "Badass"? I have all the gold weapons on Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare. That's the definition of "Badass" right there. I could probably outshoot all of the "experts" on here. I have also found the Fountain of Youth, my hairline is not receding, I am not overweight, and despite having two kids I am still a "cool" guy.

 

[Badbart]

We're not worthy, we're not worthy, we're not worthy....