- Jul 31, 2012
- 430
4.2L I6 Head Removal/Engine Restoration
- Thread starter OctaneRider03
- Start date
- Jul 31, 2012
- 430
[video=youtube;DZFbslTJuHw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZFbslTJuHw&feature=share&list=ULDZFbslTJuHw[/video]
Video #2
Video #2
- Jul 31, 2012
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- Jul 31, 2012
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- Jul 31, 2012
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New power steering pump components and starter coming in.. One thing after another, I swear.
Just as a heads up, we'll be starting with our suspension next literally RIGHT AFTER we wrap this project up! For those of you that know a thing or two about the how-to's when it comes down to springs, struts and ball-joints, give me a holler! -Octane
Just as a heads up, we'll be starting with our suspension next literally RIGHT AFTER we wrap this project up! For those of you that know a thing or two about the how-to's when it comes down to springs, struts and ball-joints, give me a holler! -Octane
What's the condition of your motor mounts? You already have most of the crap out of the way now as it is...
- Jul 31, 2012
- 430
OOP's. Should have went back and looked. Come on Octane that was 166 posts ago, lol. I can't remember 10 minutes ago sometimes.
- Jul 31, 2012
- 430
rywegh said:OOP's. Should have went back and looked. Come on Oc
tane that was 166 posts ago, lol. I can't remember 10 minutes ago sometimes.
Hah! You're good man! Believe me when I tell you that I'm not one to make smart remarks to those that don't pay full attention to what's posted. Hopefully my brief response didn't come across as rude to you! That crap irks the hell out of me when people show up, ask questions and get turned away. There's no sense in shunning somebody regardless of how they word, spell or ask a question (even if the answer just so happens to be two clicks away). WE don't tolerate that trash here at GMTN, because there really is no such thing as a stupid question. I'm aware that it's a lot and not everyone's going to look back unless they're looking for something specific I've said or put up. There are certain TrailVoy members that did that to me back in the day and it greatly pissed me off. It was like they were worried I was stealing their fire or something, you know? I wanted to tell them I was sorry for not being a high and mighty master-mechanic and that I'll just go drive off a cliff the next time my truck had an issue but I doubt that was even enough to satisfy those ego-driven Chevy "war heros"!
I'm open to any questions from ANYBODY pertaining to this particular project. For those that aren't currently members of GMTN, sign up and give me a holler! -Octane
No rudeness taken. I had seriously forgotten that part about the motor mounts hence the reason I suggested it.
- Jul 31, 2012
- 430
Back to the garage tonight?!?! What what?!?!? I'm beyond ready to get this over with already! -Octane
- Jul 31, 2012
- 430
Your guess is as good as mine on that one! Sorry about running off on a rant, I for some reason felt the desire to speak my mind about that particular issue..
Back on topic!!
We put the head back on tonighy around 9:00 eastern!
Back on topic!!
We put the head back on tonighy around 9:00 eastern!
- Jul 31, 2012
- 430
Nope! I can't trust the guys at the hobby shop on Lejeune! They charge by the night while your vehical sits in there and some of the Marines/Civilians that are there can give you bad advise.
All my work is done at a friends garage out in town! Known him for years, he's helped me install everything from my drilled and slotted rotors to taking my cylinder head off!
All my work is done at a friends garage out in town! Known him for years, he's helped me install everything from my drilled and slotted rotors to taking my cylinder head off!
- Jul 31, 2012
- 430
Yeah it goes something like that... Thanks man. I'm actually driving out there right now.. -Octane
- Jul 31, 2012
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Alright gentlemen, we've come to yet another stand-still with things here in the garage. I've taken a video of us describing our discrepancies/issues, now I'm going to see what YOU have to say. All input is welcomed.
I need you guys right now, so get back to me on here as we push things into sixth gear here at the shop. -Octane
I need you guys right now, so get back to me on here as we push things into sixth gear here at the shop. -Octane
- Jul 31, 2012
- 430
Steering rack bolts..... PB and some heat... Then cheater pipe on a breaker bar... They will submit.
Mooseman
Moderator
For the head bolts, Maybe you just started with too small a bit. I know you usually make your first hole with a small bit and then go larger. Maybe start with a 1/8" bit and then larger. Then, I would put a bit of heat on them before putting the easy-out reverse thread bolt remover in there to help loosen the corrosion between the aluminum and steel bolt. I did that to two broken exhaust manifold bolts which had only a little stub sticking out to grab on to. Just don't put so much heat that you melt the aluminum block. I would do this as having a broken bolt extractor after torquing too hard on it would be worse .
Keep at it. I'm confident you'll get through this. I was in the same place as you during my engine swap last year, in July, in the sun, no shade, in the driveway. A month long job for me and my son. But we got 'er done and I'm still fixing it but proud to say I did it all myself.
I'm kinda anxious every time I see you post to read where you're at. It's like following a soap opera
.
Keep at it. I'm confident you'll get through this. I was in the same place as you during my engine swap last year, in July, in the sun, no shade, in the driveway. A month long job for me and my son. But we got 'er done and I'm still fixing it but proud to say I did it all myself.
I'm kinda anxious every time I see you post to read where you're at. It's like following a soap opera
.
gmcman
Member
- Dec 12, 2011
- 4,673
My first visit to this thread and I did read all the posts.
First and foremost, thank you for your service.
I want to say that the purpose of my post is for positive constructive criticism. In no way shape or form am I trying to take you away from your progress, you will surely know more about these engines than alot of us here after you get her running again. This is a great thread, and you are surely dedicated in getting this motor back up and running and you will be WAY ahead of the game with everything cleaned up, tightened up, many new parts here and there so regardless of the root cause, you will have a near-fresh motor.
What concerns me was the multiple mis-fire and your #2&5 cylinders having some more soot than others. I know that this is a moot point for the most part given my impeccable timing to visit this thread....
I'm no expert either just throwing some of my $.02 around.
Good point....I thought this as well but there would be compensation for all the cylinders if I'm not mistaken.
I honestly think that a can of BG44K would have possibly worked wonders here. This stuff cleans carbon like crazy. You may have a sticking injector, possibly an air leak but this looks like a normal head with normal carbon build-up.
What kind of fuel are you using? I'm going to guess a steady diet of 93 octane.
The low compression is another concern, could very well be a sticking valve, the areas of higher carbon around these cylinders could hold one open slightly as someone else pointed out.
When you replaced the plugs, did you keep the old coil packs in? These motors despise any plug other than AC plugs, never use any other plug. I think the dealer showed you a normal to slightly abnormal amount of carbon build-up and wanted your money. But again....you are ahead of the game so don't take this the wrong way...I wish I had mine torn down to freshen it up just don't have the time.
Reason I ask is when you use the incorrect plug there is a chance you can stress the coil packs from too much resistance, unlikely but a chance. Seems this was isolated incidents but sudden.
If the BG44K didn't clean it up, then perhaps a valve lap may. This is just for others that may experience the same issues to try the 44K, it really works well.
Do you ever run the piss out of the motor? Meaning full-throttle accleration to the redline once or twice a tank? This will really help blow out excessive carbon. If you started getting multiple misfires after you were geting on the gas hard, you very well could have dislodged a piece of carbon under a valve and causing a compression leak, then no ignition. Looks like a cold or "cooler" cylinder at 2&5 and this would be the case under low or no combustion. The ECM could have adjusted for this not throwing a rich code....dunno.
What kind of fuel mileage were you getting? I wonder if this motor is running slightly rich, this would be relative to poor fuel mileage but just want to ask.
My gut tells me something else is amiss but you may have captured it with the head job. Hopefully anyway. You're going about this the correct way and replacing parts not to replicate the labor at a later date.
Current fuel is garbage, sitting in the tank for periods stated then running the motor which is rich until warm could have caused some build-up. Then the repeated starts and running cold. When you returned and ran the truck with the stale fuel you started getting problems. Current fuel is pretty much garbage after 3-4 months, will surely run but I know in small engines they wreak havoc.
I would drain the tank, drain the lines, replace the filter BEFORE you turn the key and energize the fuel pump. Or at least disconect the fuel line and drain the tank via the pump if it can be done this way. How long was the fuel in the tank at the longest interval?
Best of luck, again....awesome job on the refresh and great pics.
First and foremost, thank you for your service.
I want to say that the purpose of my post is for positive constructive criticism. In no way shape or form am I trying to take you away from your progress, you will surely know more about these engines than alot of us here after you get her running again. This is a great thread, and you are surely dedicated in getting this motor back up and running and you will be WAY ahead of the game with everything cleaned up, tightened up, many new parts here and there so regardless of the root cause, you will have a near-fresh motor.
What concerns me was the multiple mis-fire and your #2&5 cylinders having some more soot than others. I know that this is a moot point for the most part given my impeccable timing to visit this thread....
I'm no expert either just throwing some of my $.02 around.Mooseman said:
Good point....I thought this as well but there would be compensation for all the cylinders if I'm not mistaken.
I honestly think that a can of BG44K would have possibly worked wonders here. This stuff cleans carbon like crazy. You may have a sticking injector, possibly an air leak but this looks like a normal head with normal carbon build-up.
What kind of fuel are you using? I'm going to guess a steady diet of 93 octane.
The low compression is another concern, could very well be a sticking valve, the areas of higher carbon around these cylinders could hold one open slightly as someone else pointed out.
When you replaced the plugs, did you keep the old coil packs in? These motors despise any plug other than AC plugs, never use any other plug. I think the dealer showed you a normal to slightly abnormal amount of carbon build-up and wanted your money. But again....you are ahead of the game so don't take this the wrong way...I wish I had mine torn down to freshen it up just don't have the time.
Reason I ask is when you use the incorrect plug there is a chance you can stress the coil packs from too much resistance, unlikely but a chance. Seems this was isolated incidents but sudden.
If the BG44K didn't clean it up, then perhaps a valve lap may. This is just for others that may experience the same issues to try the 44K, it really works well.
Do you ever run the piss out of the motor? Meaning full-throttle accleration to the redline once or twice a tank? This will really help blow out excessive carbon. If you started getting multiple misfires after you were geting on the gas hard, you very well could have dislodged a piece of carbon under a valve and causing a compression leak, then no ignition. Looks like a cold or "cooler" cylinder at 2&5 and this would be the case under low or no combustion. The ECM could have adjusted for this not throwing a rich code....dunno.
What kind of fuel mileage were you getting? I wonder if this motor is running slightly rich, this would be relative to poor fuel mileage but just want to ask.
My gut tells me something else is amiss but you may have captured it with the head job. Hopefully anyway. You're going about this the correct way and replacing parts not to replicate the labor at a later date.
Current fuel is garbage, sitting in the tank for periods stated then running the motor which is rich until warm could have caused some build-up. Then the repeated starts and running cold. When you returned and ran the truck with the stale fuel you started getting problems. Current fuel is pretty much garbage after 3-4 months, will surely run but I know in small engines they wreak havoc.
I would drain the tank, drain the lines, replace the filter BEFORE you turn the key and energize the fuel pump. Or at least disconect the fuel line and drain the tank via the pump if it can be done this way. How long was the fuel in the tank at the longest interval?
Best of luck, again....awesome job on the refresh and great pics.
- Jul 31, 2012
- 430
I'm about to pass out, I've got to be on base (Camp Lejeune) by 0545. Keep the input rolling, I'm going to get back to you tomorrow. You guys are awesome, thank YOU for everything that you do. -Octane
OctaneRider;
Since you mentioned you dulled the drill bits and were buying more, get left turning bits. During the process of drilling, heats created, and it might just be enough to loosen the bolt and spin it out. I've had pretty good success with this method, it works most of the time.
If not, you still have a hole for an ez out. Whatever you do, don't break the ez out. They may not come out.
The other option is to drill the bolt entirely out, and re-thread the hole.
Like another poster said, I follow this thread like a soap opera myself. Best of luck.
Since you mentioned you dulled the drill bits and were buying more, get left turning bits. During the process of drilling, heats created, and it might just be enough to loosen the bolt and spin it out. I've had pretty good success with this method, it works most of the time.
If not, you still have a hole for an ez out. Whatever you do, don't break the ez out. They may not come out.
The other option is to drill the bolt entirely out, and re-thread the hole.
Like another poster said, I follow this thread like a soap opera myself. Best of luck.
- Jul 31, 2012
- 430
I'm beyond humbled by all of your guidance gentlemen.. Thanks again for throwing new ideas out there and brining new cards to the table for me. I give you my word that I will continue to push forward with this and relay as much feedback as possible to all of you here.
I've got a few new ideas.. I've also got another set of helping hands for tonight and a new list of tools and equipment being purchased as we speak..
-Diamond bits are coming into play this evening. A better, more powerful power drill also comes into play.
-One additional can of PB Blaster is with us now, we also have a new set of taps and bits that were given to us by a tech from the Chevy dealership here in town. This was done under the radar obviously.
Raise the black flag, there's no backing down over here on my end. -Octane
I've got a few new ideas.. I've also got another set of helping hands for tonight and a new list of tools and equipment being purchased as we speak..
-Diamond bits are coming into play this evening. A better, more powerful power drill also comes into play.
-One additional can of PB Blaster is with us now, we also have a new set of taps and bits that were given to us by a tech from the Chevy dealership here in town. This was done under the radar obviously.
Raise the black flag, there's no backing down over here on my end. -Octane
- Jul 31, 2012
- 430
[video=youtube_share;bavskhgUGlg]http://youtu.be/bavskhgUGlg[/video]
Engine removal: The hell with the broken head bolt segments! The motor's coming out! -Octane
Engine removal: The hell with the broken head bolt segments! The motor's coming out! -Octane
Mooseman
Moderator
Ah man! That sucks. Did you try drilling the bolts? Are you actually rebuilding the complete engine? One thing I would suggest once you get the bolts out. Install the head only AFTER you get it back in the engine bay. Reason is that those bellhousing bolts are a bitch to get at with the head in place. Normally, you have to remove the tranny and engine mounts and lower the engine onto the frame to get enough clearance to get at those bolts. I still have the scars from my engine swap because of those bolts.
BTW, now you will have to remove the radiator but it still sucks that you have to pull it 
BTW, now you will have to remove the radiator
but it still sucks that you have to pull it
gmcman
Member
- Dec 12, 2011
- 4,673
At this point you might as well rebuild it. New bearings, mains and rods, seals, I would even look to replacing the liners and rings and (pistons)?. I have never messed with liners but maybe even an overbore but I don't know.
I know the 06 & up heads have alot more material in them and I personally would have the head ported and polished at this point. Cams can be pricey but I have heard that a port and polish job with cams can net 50 HP alone on the 06 & up heads.
You are in it full-tilt now, IMO don't put a 120K mile motor back in unless you freshen it up all the way.
I know the 06 & up heads have alot more material in them and I personally would have the head ported and polished at this point. Cams can be pricey but I have heard that a port and polish job with cams can net 50 HP alone on the 06 & up heads.
You are in it full-tilt now, IMO don't put a 120K mile motor back in unless you freshen it up all the way.
- Jul 31, 2012
- 430
Five bucks says radiator stays put
Yeah, it's coming up as we speak. I'll relay that information to Mike regarding the head not going on before we throw the motor back inside. It's funny you said that because he JUST told me that he wanted to assemble everything before we dropped it back in the bay..
We're taking it to a different machine shop, they'll be responsible for removing the head bolt segments, cleaning the pistons, and doing whatever it is they do with the bottom portion of the motor. I'm not sure yet what all this will entail, so hang tight.
Dude. We broke two more bits tonight! The bolts are seized! It's not worth me potentially screwing the threading up over! Like I'm not even stressing over it any more!
The good thing about this is, we've had the machine shop on stand-by for this particular reason. They know exactly what's happening as it happens. In fact, they know about my article here at GMTN and have called me asking questions about some of the things I've posted. I know people from all over this town, I swear..
We'll have the motor back from them
QUICK. It won't be like it was while we waited for the head to return!
Yeah, it's coming up as we speak. I'll relay that information to Mike regarding the head not going on before we throw the motor back inside. It's funny you said that because he JUST told me that he wanted to assemble everything before we dropped it back in the bay..
We're taking it to a different machine shop, they'll be responsible for removing the head bolt segments, cleaning the pistons, and doing whatever it is they do with the bottom portion of the motor. I'm not sure yet what all this will entail, so hang tight.
Dude. We broke two more bits tonight! The bolts are seized! It's not worth me potentially screwing the threading up over! Like I'm not even stressing over it any more!
The good thing about this is, we've had the machine shop on stand-by for this particular reason. They know exactly what's happening as it happens. In fact, they know about my article here at GMTN and have called me asking questions about some of the things I've posted. I know people from all over this town, I swear..
We'll have the motor back from them
QUICK. It won't be like it was while we waited for the head to return!
- Jul 31, 2012
- 430
The rings are fine.. Trust me, when the piston rings on our 4.2L's start to go bad they have a tenancy of living little "ridges" if you will, on the cylinder walls.. So far I have no sign of anything of that sort so I think we're good there.. As for everything else you've listed, I'll have the shop give us an estimate. I want as much replaced as possible.
- Jul 31, 2012
- 430
Mooseman
Moderator
Hey, no problem with your decision. Just wanted the full thought process as to what led you to this decision. These torque-to-yield head bolts must be made with unobtainium be be so hard to drill but easy to break. It's just that aluminum and steel don't like each other and usually create a type of corrosion that is like they were welded together.
At this point, I would do a full rebuild and some port matching and polishing but nothing crazy just to help it breathe a little better.
Yeah, put me down for 5 that radiator is coming out
Announcer:
Will Octane get the engine out? Will he take the radiator out? Will his buddy become an alcoholic? Will the Trailblazer become target practice? Please join us later for the next episode of "As the wrench turns".
At this point, I would do a full rebuild and some port matching and polishing but nothing crazy just to help it breathe a little better.
Yeah, put me down for 5 that radiator is coming out
Announcer:
Will Octane get the engine out? Will he take the radiator out? Will his buddy become an alcoholic? Will the Trailblazer become target practice? Please join us later for the next episode of "As the wrench turns".
Personally I would pull radiator and either replace it with new or take to a radiator shop and re-core it. With you pulling the motor and getting it in to a machine shop for at least the bolt removal and possibly some extra goody machine work(port matching and polishing, new rings), wouldn't a few extra minutes to remove radiator to protect the future investment be worth it. Knowing my luck with repairs this summer on the TB I would probably have already broke mine. lol
Hmm that has me thinking, can they add a pet-cock to the radiator we have. Or is that an option if we buy a new one from an aftermarket group?
Hmm that has me thinking, can they add a pet-cock to the radiator we have. Or is that an option if we buy a new one from an aftermarket group?
- Jul 31, 2012
- 430
Mooseman said:Hey, no problem with your decision. Just wanted the full thought process as to what led you to this decision. These torque-to-yield head bolts must be made with unobtainium be be so hard to drill but easy to break. It's just that aluminum and steel don't like each other and usually create a type of corrosion that is like they were welded together.
At this point, I would do a full rebuild and some port matching and polishing but nothing crazy just to help it breathe a little better.
Yeah, put me down for 5 that radiator is coming out
Announcer:
Will Octane get the engine out? Will he take the radiator out? Will his buddy become an alcoholic? Will the Trailblazer become target practice? Please join us later for the next episode of "As the wrench turns".
You're a jackass for posting this.. Infact, I think I'm going to stick with the title from now on, hah! Love it!
As the wrench turns.. Get the heck out of here LMFAO!!
We'll see guys. Tonight when we go back to pull it out I'll tell you if the radiator gets pulled or not..