- Jul 31, 2012
- 430
Hey Roadie, thanks for the link conversion man! I've got a picture of myself and my TB but am unable to set it in my profile area. Suppose I'll have to set it once I can get to a desktop... Bummer dude.
4.2L I6 Head Removal/Engine Restoration
- Thread starter OctaneRider03
- Start date
- Jul 31, 2012
- 430
Okay guys we're online now coming to you live tonight from our shop going on round 3 with the removal of the upper cylinder head! I will be posting pictures a little later on this evening so for all you early sleepers out there feel free to check back here in the morning!
We're currently taking off the water pump (reverse thread?!?? Haha!) slowly making our way to taking this 70 pound monster out! Get stoked because we're almost there! -Lee
We're currently taking off the water pump (reverse thread?!?? Haha!) slowly making our way to taking this 70 pound monster out! Get stoked because we're almost there! -Lee
- Jul 31, 2012
- 430
Sparky said:
Roger! My buddy told me to tell you that his average is about 35 ft lbs! Haha! It's coming along guys!
Nice picture up there man lol! I'm currently spraying carburetor cleaner into the bottom of the EGR valve and intake manifold, letting it all drip out as I take out as much carbon as I can.
Look it's like this. If I had this much carbon build up in my rifle at work I probably wouldn't be a Marine. This is bad..
- Jul 31, 2012
- 430
Ok so now we're at a bit of a stand-still. We don't have the proper size pulley remover for the crankshaft pulley.. Suggestions?
- Jul 31, 2012
- 430
strat81 said:
It almost led to us pistol whipping my motor. Yeah, I'll be making a run to autozone to get the tool kit on Thursday. In the meantime however, we disconnected the water pump and noticed some seepage close to the end of it. Ladies and gentlemen, I have a faulty water pump! Awesome!
I'll be ordering the new one tomorrow.
We didn't get far tonight but did what we could. I'll be posting pictures shortly. Another night down..... It pushed me back a few days on schedule! -Lee
- Jul 31, 2012
- 430
We bought a bottle of seafoam and carburetor cleaner with one quart of oil (used for lubrication purposes only, it's all getting drained anyway) to help break down some carbon and keep a slick coat on our head. Let me tell you guys, I'm a firm believer in sinthetic oil. When things dried up a little internally they all shined nice and clean!
We didn't have the right tool for the camshaft, so we took off the water pump for right now.
Listen, for all of you out there that have had the infamous "winding" sound from your 4.2's, chances are it's the water pump going defective. You'll see a picture of mine below, and let me tell you it was pretty loose on the ends. You can see where a leak resulted in a build of material towards the left side. Apparently trailblazer water pumps go bad and give people the impression they're running super chargers? Yeah right. Let's be real folks! So a new one will be ordered tomorrow! Glad I got a chance to identify the issue now before it went out on me!
Anyway, here you go guys.. We pick back up again on Thursday night.. Can somebody convert these links to IMG please. Thank you! Goodnight nation!
We didn't have the right tool for the camshaft, so we took off the water pump for right now.
Listen, for all of you out there that have had the infamous "winding" sound from your 4.2's, chances are it's the water pump going defective. You'll see a picture of mine below, and let me tell you it was pretty loose on the ends. You can see where a leak resulted in a build of material towards the left side. Apparently trailblazer water pumps go bad and give people the impression they're running super chargers? Yeah right. Let's be real folks! So a new one will be ordered tomorrow! Glad I got a chance to identify the issue now before it went out on me!
Anyway, here you go guys.. We pick back up again on Thursday night.. Can somebody convert these links to IMG please. Thank you! Goodnight nation!
- Jul 31, 2012
- 430
We head back into the garage tomorrow to finish off the job. From this point we'll be ready to turn my upper cylinder head over to the machine shop. Finally..
In the meantime, I purchased a new water pump from the dealership this afternoon. As you can tell by looking above, mine was getting close to it's last breath. One last thing I'll have to worry about for a while.
Anyway, see you guys tomorrow night for round 4...
Stupid camshaft.. -Lee
In the meantime, I purchased a new water pump from the dealership this afternoon. As you can tell by looking above, mine was getting close to it's last breath. One last thing I'll have to worry about for a while.
Anyway, see you guys tomorrow night for round 4...
Stupid camshaft.. -Lee
Man, I'm going to bed around 9PM. (Old farts do that so we can annoy the neighbors getting the paper and watering the lawn at 5AM.) You make me tired reading this thread. It's my major exercise for the day.OctaneRider03 said:
- Jul 31, 2012
- 430
Suck it up Roadie, you older guys are naturally supposed to be night owls! Haha, I know it's been a long post but what you've already seen is the worst of it. Tonight's our last night to get it out, tomorrow it goes to the machine shop. After that we get it back and the last thing I post is a video describing the changes I've noticed.
My only hope out of this is to help the next person out. I can't tell you how many people I've heard saying they go through the exact same issue. So why put them in the circle and make them spin around? I've got the time, tools and money for the job. My intent is to annotate each descrepency I've found and make known to anyone who wants to take a look my solutions.
BTW, I'm pretty sure I just read an artical somewhere on here stating that Chevy was working on a potential release of a twin-turbo 4.2? That just makes me want to drive my TB into the Atlantic while screaming "why now?!??" as loud as I can..
Tonight my friend.
My only hope out of this is to help the next person out. I can't tell you how many people I've heard saying they go through the exact same issue. So why put them in the circle and make them spin around? I've got the time, tools and money for the job. My intent is to annotate each descrepency I've found and make known to anyone who wants to take a look my solutions.
BTW, I'm pretty sure I just read an artical somewhere on here stating that Chevy was working on a potential release of a twin-turbo 4.2? That just makes me want to drive my TB into the Atlantic while screaming "why now?!??" as loud as I can..
Tonight my friend.
Opeth
Member
- Mar 25, 2012
- 177
Funny your intake manifold bolts were loose too...I double checked mine after the dealer did the job and they were nice and tight. I'm starting to wonder if this may be the root of this issue, I found another post on the OS which lead me to check my intake manifold bolts and same symptom. We've all had to get head work done.
- Jul 31, 2012
- 430
[SAVEDGMAP][/SAVEDGMAP]
Dude it's crazy man. At first I didn't think much of it then reached around and attempted to unscrew, sure as anything they were loose! We're taking the head bolts out tonight. I anticipate them breaking one at a time. TTY bolts they say. We'll see about that.
I don't want anybody else to have to go through this. I'm trying to post as much as I can so it's all documented for you guys should you come across that guy that can't seem to figure it out. Maybe it'll help?
Opeth is awesome by the way, love the song Deliverance. -Lee
Opeth said:
Dude it's crazy man. At first I didn't think much of it then reached around and attempted to unscrew, sure as anything they were loose! We're taking the head bolts out tonight. I anticipate them breaking one at a time. TTY bolts they say. We'll see about that.
I don't want anybody else to have to go through this. I'm trying to post as much as I can so it's all documented for you guys should you come across that guy that can't seem to figure it out. Maybe it'll help?
Opeth is awesome by the way, love the song Deliverance. -Lee
BuckeyeEvan
Member
- Apr 1, 2012
- 63
- Jul 31, 2012
- 430
BuckeyeEvan said:amazing thread.
amazing job you are doing!!!!!!
Thanks man I really appreciate it! I'm really glad that I had the opportunity to do all this and share my experiences with you guys! Not EVERYONE does head work.. I understand this. However, I think what all I've managed to post will show people what's really going on internally and what they can most certainly do to address it instead of wasting time and money only trying to guess at it!
Gentlemen... We have lift off..
We showed up at the shop around nine tonight and finished off around midnight. So all in all we've put in a total of 12 hours work. The head gave us a fight but after everything was removed correctly she lifted right up!
We started off with the crankshaft pulley and attempted to use a two-ton pulley remover. Our attempts with it were unsuccessful. We actually ended up bending our tool, but it makes no difference as autozone will still give me my money back for the rental regardless of it being broken or not. Still pretty funny though, we're going to reattempt it again later on because we'll have to get in behind it and reset the timing. Anywho, we decided to over-ride that option. We went with plan B and chose to remove the camshafts and guides. Then work our way to the headbolts. We broke three out of fourteen, but that's still pretty good considering I've heard horror stories from others with their headbolts. Once the headbolts were out we disconnected the wires from the rear of the head and then took out two additional sensors. The machine shop says that if we take the cams, guides and sensors out they'd charge me a bit less. So we made that happen. Very easy to do, I recall using a 10mm several times with it!
Additional notes for the night:
Removed cams and headbolts, three headbolts broke in the process.
Head lifted after all sensors were disconnected and guides were unscrewed. Left guide snapped.
Out of the six NGK iridium spark plugs I took out, only one was fouled out. Cylinder #4
We observed a large amount of carbon built up in the combustion chamber, piston walls however were clean!
Head gasket was on the verge of potentially blowing, caked with carbon, burnt in coloration.
Oil and water jackets were clean and clear.
Exhaust had a lot of carbon, intake however was clean and showed amazing burn patterns.
Cams that were taken out were lubricated with quaker oil as they will be sitting for a few days until the machine shop gives my upper cylinder head back.
--If you're going to remove the head, take the water pump out first so all that remains in the combustion chamber can drain!
Now it's off to the machine shop! This will be my last post for the next week and a half! Enjoy the pictures guys, I hope they bring you a new sense of hope when dealing with the head removal/internal issues that may cause misfires! -Lee
- Jul 31, 2012
- 430
MacMan
Member
- Mar 3, 2012
- 194
Looking at those pics, the carbon build-up you have is not abnormal, IMO. I have taken MANY engines apart (race and street), and yours don't appear out of the ordinary.
I'll be curious what the machine shop has to say after the valves are removed and checked-over, especially on those cylinders that showed low compression.
I'll be curious what the machine shop has to say after the valves are removed and checked-over, especially on those cylinders that showed low compression.
- Jul 31, 2012
- 430
MacMan said:
I agree 100%. I think the issue is what's inside the head as you've already stated. All I could see was black man, I'll be the first to tell you that my EGR valve was damn near clogged, and my intake manifold had it caked around the lining.
I'll let you guys know what they say. In any case, I'll know for a fact that everything inside is cleaned and restored.
I'm so sure of all this fixing the misfire that I'd bet on it. I've had too many run-in's with the problem to not know what I'm talking about. At this point, people can evaluate what I've shown all day long, the machine shop will have the final say. I'm done posting for a while. -Lee
- Jul 31, 2012
- 430
OctaneRider03 said:
I don't have the I6, but all I've read says they don't have an EGR.
A picture would help.
- Jul 31, 2012
- 430
[EBAY][/EBAY]
I don't believe I've taken a picture of it, but I DID take one of the gasket I took off that was in between the EGR and head. If you look back at the first page of the thread towards the bottom, you'll see both the old and new gasket for it. The old is clearly identifiable as it has carbon around the inside of it.
Because I didn't take a picture of it, I managed to find a link to a photo of one from an 02 TB.
http://i.ebayimg.com/01/!B(GYKIg!2k~$(KGrHgoOKjMEjlLmV-moBK,j2RPWTw~~_35.JPG
The dealership also recognizes this part as an "EGR valve". They gave me the gasket for it when I purchased the upper cylinder head rebuild kit.
Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but if that's not what it's called then I give up. I held it in my hand guys, spray out the bottom with carburetor cleaner and scraped away with a razor religiously until the carbon was gone..
I'm a Marine, not a full blown mechanic. I'm learning and doing the best I can. Hope this helps! -Lee
BRomanJr said:
I don't believe I've taken a picture of it, but I DID take one of the gasket I took off that was in between the EGR and head. If you look back at the first page of the thread towards the bottom, you'll see both the old and new gasket for it. The old is clearly identifiable as it has carbon around the inside of it.
Because I didn't take a picture of it, I managed to find a link to a photo of one from an 02 TB.
http://i.ebayimg.com/01/!B(GYKIg!2k~$(KGrHgoOKjMEjlLmV-moBK,j2RPWTw~~_35.JPG
The dealership also recognizes this part as an "EGR valve". They gave me the gasket for it when I purchased the upper cylinder head rebuild kit.
Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but if that's not what it's called then I give up. I held it in my hand guys, spray out the bottom with carburetor cleaner and scraped away with a razor religiously until the carbon was gone..
I'm a Marine, not a full blown mechanic. I'm learning and doing the best I can. Hope this helps! -Lee
OctaneRider03 said:
That is the valve for the Air Pump that is located under the drivers seat on an I6, The valve is mounted on the exhaust manifold and has an electrical connector and a rubber hose (heater hose size) from the Air pump.
- Jul 31, 2012
- 430
BRomanJr said:
Okay. Well as soon as I get back to the garage this evening I'll snap a quick shot of it and post it. I don't understand why I've been told that it is in fact an EGR valve? You're right about the placement of it, it was mounted on the exhaust manifold. Learn something new everyday.
- Jul 31, 2012
- 430
I'm confused by this for some reason. Something's not adding up. I'll need to look further into this before I'm able to post anything else.
HARDTRAILZ
Moderator
- Nov 18, 2011
- 49,665
Sparky
Member
- Dec 4, 2011
- 12,927
Whoa, I feel honored that I helped inspire someone, especially to go this far when I myself wouldn't have even thought of taking apart the top end of the engine like this! Heck I've never even cracked a valve cover open.
Anyways. When you have updates from the machine shop as to what the head was like and everything let us know!
Anyways. When you have updates from the machine shop as to what the head was like and everything let us know!
- Jul 31, 2012
- 430
You will all see it once I get it back, then this thread will finally be complete with a conclusion.
In the meantime, remember I said I'm down a spark plug. Cylinder #4's plug was the only one out of the six that was fouled out. I currently have NGK Laser Iridium's. I need to search for a place that lets me buy just one individual plug as opposed to the entire pack.
Also, I had a guide break on me last night while we were removing the head. It snapped as we lifted and shifted the head from left to right while pulling up. Things happen. I'm trying to figure out if I'll need to buy both guides and the chain (for the cams and timing) or if I can just get the guide I need by itself and install from there.
We've got a few days until this happens again guys. I'm going to lay low for now while I search.
Remember, as previously stated by another member, NGk makes the Delco iridium plugs. Therefor I'm sticking with the NGK's I already have. Help me find the one I need if you can. Good night guys. -Lee
In the meantime, remember I said I'm down a spark plug. Cylinder #4's plug was the only one out of the six that was fouled out. I currently have NGK Laser Iridium's. I need to search for a place that lets me buy just one individual plug as opposed to the entire pack.
Also, I had a guide break on me last night while we were removing the head. It snapped as we lifted and shifted the head from left to right while pulling up. Things happen. I'm trying to figure out if I'll need to buy both guides and the chain (for the cams and timing) or if I can just get the guide I need by itself and install from there.
We've got a few days until this happens again guys. I'm going to lay low for now while I search.
Remember, as previously stated by another member, NGk makes the Delco iridium plugs. Therefor I'm sticking with the NGK's I already have. Help me find the one I need if you can. Good night guys. -Lee
Mooseman
Moderator
I just found this thread as the title threw me off a bit... thought it was a "need a tuneup" or "dead ignition coil" thread. Great pics!
Since you're looking at replacing the chain guides/tensioner, may I suggest that you replace the cam phaser on the exhaust camshaft. It's $100 or so and they do fail. Would just save you from having to replace it later on. Also a new CPAS wouldn't be a bad idea.
A head R&R on these things is definitely intense! Hope the news from the machine shop is good.
Since you're looking at replacing the chain guides/tensioner, may I suggest that you replace the cam phaser on the exhaust camshaft. It's $100 or so and they do fail. Would just save you from having to replace it later on. Also a new CPAS wouldn't be a bad idea.
A head R&R on these things is definitely intense! Hope the news from the machine shop is good.
- Jul 31, 2012
- 430
Mooseman said:
See if you can look up some part numbers as to what you're talking about so I know. What is the purpose of the phaser? CPAS? That's a new one for me. Sure, I've got a ton of money to blow towards it, I suppose I'm wanting to spend wisely. I'll look into that phaser though.
The heck is a cam phaser?
- Jul 31, 2012
- 430
OctaneRider03 said:
Are you talking about the cam sensors? I remember pulling one out before actually taking the head off.
- Jul 31, 2012
- 430
The machine shop just called me, they've got my head now and will be looking into all the springs and valves shortly. If they have to replace say, all the valves, how much would that run me?
I've identified the guide that was snapped in half upon the release of the head the other night. I'm at the dealership right now, it's going to run me $15 bucks, and they'll be sending it in from a plant in Charlotte. Good times.
I've identified the guide that was snapped in half upon the release of the head the other night. I'm at the dealership right now, it's going to run me $15 bucks, and they'll be sending it in from a plant in Charlotte. Good times.
Exhaust valves list for around $30 each, parts4chevys.com $20. Intake list for around $20, p4c $13.
- Jul 31, 2012
- 430
Mooseman
Moderator
OctaneRider03 said:
I'm talking about the mechanism that advances and retards the exhaust camshaft. It's the one marked Delphi with and chain gear on it. Sorry can't locate a part # at the moment as I'm on my phone. The CPAS is what controls the phaser located just behind the power steering pump.
- Jul 31, 2012
- 430
- Jul 31, 2012
- 430
the roadie said:
Thanks man, I didn't make it down that far yet! Got it. I'll look into having it replaced.