Firearms

[dmanns67]

If you guys like the R.I.P. you'll love the Lehigh Defense Maximum Expansion for the Judge/Governor. They are pricey though @ about $40 for 12 after shipping

[video=youtube;7bLonprIWm4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bLonprIWm4[/video]

I think those rounds would do more damage than the R.I.P. rounds. At that price I would definitely keep them for home defense and not the range, well maybe a couple at the range. That Raging Judge is sweet

 

[xtitan1]

I believe this one may be criminal. You know how small-town stories go, we hear 30 versions, but the website says getting ready to clean, and a local yokel said a bullet was "stuck in the barrel" (their words) and fired when the magazine was reinserted. Depending on the exact model of weapon (which is as of yet unspecified besides caliber), the safety mechanism can disable the firing mechanism from moving, and some designs of drop safeties also provide an obstruction to the firing pin or mechanism unless certain conditions are met. Some also have those "loaded-when-up" indicators right behind the ejector port as an extra notice of current gun status, if it was a semi-auto. If the girl dies, I'm smelling involuntary manslaughter. If she lives, it's up to the jury to hear the evidence. It'd be a great help to at least know what model the weapon was.

I myself am a proponent of the "mixed-bag." While we all know the common safety preachers say to completely unload the gun, I feel there is a need to at least have either a round or a few in the magazine, or a magazine stored in very easy reach from the weapon that the weapon could be armed quickly in certain scenarios, but never to leave one chambered. It literally takes one pull to bring the weapon to a ready state, and people who use "high-stress situations" as an excuse to leave one chambered haven't thought about the other things in a high-stress situation - opening the safe, and actually being able to hit the target. Killing a common crook just trying to jack a television could still put a person behind bars if their life wasn't at risk, and with a firearm location is key between killing and disabling shots.

I heartily agree that double-checking is very necessary on firearms. I tend to double-check my work a lot when I can, and if I were ever handling a firearm I would MAKE time to double-check. I mean look at this situation, the guy's just in his house getting ready to perform some standard maintenance like a good firearm owner would, and it's turned into a real mess, and since the bullet went out of his house (trailer actually, I know where Cloverdale is) and into another trailer, there's really no way to know he was incidentally putting others at risk if he was home alone.

Dude, I don't think safety preachers will unanimously say that you should leave your guns unloaded. In fact, most of the firearms instructors will tell you the opposite.

Their reasoning is that, yes, if you really need your weapon in a self defense scenario it's one less thing to think about, but also, if you always keep your guns loaded, you won't make the assumption that your gun is ever unloaded, which is when accidents happen.

And I agree with those that say it will be difficult to operate a firearm in a high stress situation, but I'm not following your logic. If there are other difficult tasks like opening a safe to perform, isn't it better to have one less thing to worry about?

I have no idea what you're talking about when you say killing vs. disabling shots. If your life is in such immediate danger that deadly force is justified, then you should use deadly force. If it isn't, don't shoot at all, because you shouldn't shoot someone who isn't putting your life in immediate danger.

If you want to be safe, get regular firearms training with a certified instructor. They would have been able to instruct this guy about always keeping the firearm pointed in a safe direction as well as the concept of overpenetration.

 

[hrddrv]

If you follow the rules said here Education and Training|NRA Gun Safety Rules You should never have any accidents. With that being said things do happen but 99 % of these accidents could have been prevented if people would use the things on their shoulders for more than holding glasses and a hat. I have been around firearms for 42 yrs, yes that is how old I am, and have never shot anything I did not intend to shoot. I have never had an accidental discharge either. My only accident was dropping an unloaded shotgun on my friends head while coming down the tree stand. My sling got hung on a branch and as I was trying to untangle it and myself the branch broke and down we both went. Gun went to one side of tree and myself on the other. Neither of us were hurt but I was glad I had emptied my gun. Again following safe gun rules always works.

 

[IllogicTC]

I have no idea what you're talking about when you say killing vs. disabling shots. If your life is in such immediate danger that deadly force is justified, then you should use deadly force. If it isn't, don't shoot at all, because you shouldn't shoot someone who isn't putting your life in immediate danger.

For every one person who knows what what they're doing, there's probably 3-5 who just want to point and shoot. Go find a pro-gun page on Facebook and read what people say on there - things like shooting ANY home invader, etc. They have no clarity to discern betweeen the "common" crook, and those who actually mean harm. I've even had a person tell me they can think of ways to use hand grenades in a home-defense scenario, which to me seems an incredulous claim. They believe it's just "you're in my home, so I can shoot you!" which is the wrong way. Even then, there is still a good long court case to make sure that you were actually in danger enough that a killshot was necessitated. A disabling shot would be one which wounds, but is "less-lethal." Think shooting the elbow or something, as compared to the heart, knee instead of head.

I believe that you, personally, have a good handle on your justifications for squeezing the trigger. Unfortunately, plenty of people don't and they ruin it for people like yourself.

If one is really insistent on quick reaction times, there's no law against just leaving one chambered, but I would hope it's at least secured well in case there is a discharge scenario, rather than just left in the closet like some people around here do. I understand there's also safes with biometric lock, where it reads your thumbprint or something instead of requiring a combination to be input. Not only would this reduce time to bring the weapon to bear, but would be an extra measure of security, which is always nice (heard stories of crooks busting in when nobody's home and taking guns along with other stuff, generally unsecured ones though).

 

[Ghost]

I am a gun hobbyist, the last thing I'm going to do is shoot someone in my home over a television, stereo etc. Now if a gun whaling individual is in my home threatening the lives of me or my loved ones it may come down to a 50/50 choice to injure (disable) this person or kill them.

I triple check my firearms prior to storage and or cleaning. I have not took any courses on firearms but plan to someday...when I have the time and $.

 

[HARDTRAILZ]

Kill,em All!

 

[IllogicTC]

I am a gun hobbyist, the last thing I'm going to do is shoot someone in my home over a television, stereo etc. Now if a gun whaling individual is in my home threatening the lives of me or my loved ones it may come down to a 50/50 choice to injure (disable) this person or kill them.

I triple check my firearms prior to storage and or cleaning. I have not took any courses on firearms but plan to someday...when I have the time and $.

Every measure of safety helps when you're dealing with something with life-taking potential. Now if only some of the other people I've talked to took the same stance, lol, like the "hand grenade for home defense" guy.

 

[RayVoy]

Dude, I don't think safety preachers will unanimously say that you should leave your guns unloaded. In fact, most of the firearms instructors will tell you the opposite.

I shake my head when I read something like this.......are you actually suggesting that most instructors will tell you to store a gun loaded?

 

[BoldAdventure]

Watch out, all the call of duty operator wanna be's are going to give you all their gun tips.

 

[Ghost]

Watch out, all the call of duty operator wanna be's are going to give you all their gun tips.

Bahahaa

 

[Short Bus]

I shake my head when I read something like this.......are you actually suggesting that most instructors will tell you to store a gun loaded?

Defense guns should always be loaded. Mine are either on me, on/leaning on my night stand or locked up if they can't be with me, but they are always ready to go.

 

[IllogicTC]

Watch out, all the call of duty operator wanna be's are going to give you all their gun tips.

But didn't you know? If you have a bunch of people invading your home and you dispatch them all without dying, you can launch a UAV!

 

[Sparky]

I shake my head when I read something like this.......are you actually suggesting that most instructors will tell you to store a gun loaded?

Store? No. If you're just storing them they should be unloaded.

Ones meant for self defense in case the worst should ever happen? Yes, loaded. Useless otherwise.

I have mine in a drawer near the bed, ready to go. I'm the only one living here so there is no risk of accidental discharge by anyone. Given my location, odds are 99.999999% that I'll never need it in a self-defense situation. At the same time, it would suck if that 0.000001% chance did happen and it wasn't ready while some drugged up axe murderer was knocking my door down. Or heck, just coming through the wall since this place isn't built very well

 

[BoldAdventure]

I bet all you crazy gun nuts think the NSA is spying on your iphone too.

 

[IllogicTC]

I bet all you crazy gun nuts think the NSA is spying on your iphone too.

I'll just leave this here.

The real question is, what's all this whining about requiring assault rifles and such? Is it some inferiority complex after seeing all them Afghan videos with their rockin' Russian hardware, or do people not know that with a Class 2 permit they can own any automatic weapon manufactured and registered before May 1986? This may come as a surprise, but there's 11 General Electric M134 miniguns that were manufactured and sold to private persons before 1986. Obviously, the chances of coming across one is slim because they're in private collections (plus you need that Class 2 permit first), and apparently when they're resold they go for about $400k. But come on, you want automatic firepower, how's 166 rounds per second do ya? Check out the Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986 for details on how this is workable.

 

[Short Bus]

I'll just leave this here.

The real question is, what's all this whining about requiring assault rifles and such? Is it some inferiority complex after seeing all them Afghan videos with their rockin' Russian hardware, or do people not know that with a Class 2 permit they can own any automatic weapon manufactured and registered before May 1986? This may come as a surprise, but there's 11 General Electric M134 miniguns that were manufactured and sold to private persons before 1986. Obviously, the chances of coming across one is slim because they're in private collections (plus you need that Class 2 permit first), and apparently when they're resold they go for about $400k. But come on, you want automatic firepower, how's 166 rounds per second do ya? Check out the Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986 for details on how this is workable.

Expensive$!$!$!

 

[BoldAdventure]

Expensive$!$!$!

Yeah most tax stamp autos start at $10K

 

[HARDTRAILZ]

Several friends have full auto. I know supplying my own ammo is expensive enough that I don't need to own one.

 

[xtitan1]

I shake my head when I read something like this.......are you actually suggesting that most instructors will tell you to store a gun loaded?

If the gun is meant for use in an emergency self defense situation, then yes, that is what most instructors will tell you. Shake your head if you want, but considering people have trouble remembering to take the safety off in high stress situations, remembering to rack the slide is not something I want to have to do. It's not going to go off by itself sitting in a safe. If you are in a situation where you need it, then it should be kept ready to fire. By the way, almost every cop you see in the country is walking around with a loaded chamber and no manual safety on their gun (assuming its a Glock, the most commonly carried firearm by law enforcement).

Again, accidents happen when people assume a gun is unloaded but it isn't. If you know your gun is always kept loaded, you will never make the mistake of assuming its unloaded.

As others have said, if you are just storing a gun long term and have a different gun you will use for self defense, then go ahead and unload it if you want.

The only caveat would be something like the older Remington 870s that the police used to carry. They have a defect of design that will cause the gun to fire if the butt stock is slammed hard enough, which would happen when the cops put them down into those vertical shotgun holders in their squad cars. After a couple of cases of people shooting holes in their squad cars' roofs, they started having cops carry shotguns without a chambered round.

Some people still do that with shotguns claiming the sound of pumping the action can scare off an intruder, but I personally don't agree for the same reasons I gave above.

Biometric scanners on safes are probably not a hot idea. If your hands are sweaty, dirty, or bloody, it will not open which could be the difference between life and death in an emergency. Additionally, depending on the model, you may be only able to have it remember one person's print, preventing the ability of your spouse to access the gun if for some reason you aren't there when there's an intruder.

There are quick access safes that are the same idea, though. They have finger grooves so you can place your hand properly even in the dark, and each finger groove has a button. You teach it a sequence of button presses to make your secret code that will pop open the safe. Then you can share that code with your spouse if desired.



And the call of duty comments aren't necessary, nor funny since that's the 1,000,000,000th time someone has said that on the internet, and I'm pretty sure you don't have to get your gun from a safe in that game so it doesn't even make sense in the context of the discussion.

 

[dmanns67]

I enjoy shooting at the range, hunting, and shooting skeet which is why I bought the guns that I have. Having guns for home defense is an added bonus that comes with the hobby for me.

All of the guns in my house are kept at condition 3, no need to keep at condition 1 until it is time to use them.

 

[Short Bus]

I enjoy shooting at the range, hunting, and shooting skeet which is why I bought the guns that I have. Having guns for home defense is an added bonus that comes with the hobby for me.

All of the guns in my house are kept at condition 3, no need to keep at condition 1 until it is time to use them.

When it's time to use them you might not have time to load it, I would hate to loose someone in my family because I was fumbling with loading my gun under stress.

 

[dmanns67]

When it's time to use them you might not have time to load it, I would hate to loose someone in my family because I was fumbling with loading my gun under stress.

Very good point. When I say condition 3, I mean that the mag is loaded and inserted, but no round in the chamber. All I need to do is pull the slide back to load the round into the chamber.

To me it is easier to use conditions versus saying loaded. I consider my gun loaded even though I do not have a round in the chamber.

 

[hayes]

I have 3 guns loaded at all times in my house. When I am not there or carrying one (or two) then they are locked up. When SHTF I know I am ready to go. If you use proper gun handling techniques, then nothing bad will happen. If you treat a weapon like toy, then you're an idiot and bad things will happen to you. It's all about how you handle and respect the guns.

 

[Short Bus]

Very good point. When I say condition 3, I mean that the mag is loaded and inserted, but no round in the chamber. All I need to do is pull the slide back to load the round into the chamber.

To me it is easier to use conditions versus saying loaded. I consider my gun loaded even though I do not have a round in the chamber.

If that makes you feel better, that's far better than totally unloaded. I would just caution you that malfunctions can and do happen when racking the slide.

On another note, I picked up some defense ammo for my Glock 27. I got some DRT (Dynamic Research Technologies) 105gr. frangible hollow points. At 17.99 per 20, I think they're a good value as long as they pass some shooting test.

[video=youtube;b8TaK-5EtPY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8TaK-5EtPY[/video]

 

[xtitan1]

If that makes you feel better, that's far better than totally unloaded. I would just caution you that malfunctions can and do happen when racking the slide.

On another note, I picked up some defense ammo for my Glock 27. I got some DRT (Dynamic Research Technologies) 105gr. frangible hollow points. At 17.99 per 20, I think they're a good value as long as they pass some shooting test.

[video=youtube;b8TaK-5EtPY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8TaK-5EtPY[/video]

Holy crap! That's like shooting mini frag grenades!

 

[Chickenhawk]

I won't enter the debate about conditions of readiness because, after all, I am from Canada. (Here in Canada, we are guaranteed to be the first persons eaten in a zombie apocalypse. Not only would we politely hold the door open for the zombies, we would say, "sorry" and "thank you," twenty times and help them pick their severed arm off the street when it falls off.)

But Short Bus's comment on shooter-induced malfunctions under stress was a good one, and that video gives a good example of this. The 'slingshot' method of chambering a round is instinctive but it is not as reliable as the overhand method. More critical though is the way he rides the slide forward when chambering. This is almost guaranteed to cause a jam some day.

When a round is chambered properly, the support hand should always be moving in the opposite direction of the slide when the round chambers, not the same direction of the slide.

Small point but this reinforces what Short Bus was saying. I realize it was just a casual video shoot, but I would never let my students get away with casually closing the slide on a round under any circumstances. The way one is conditioned through their every day handling is the way one will perform under stress.

 

[Short Bus]

You guys seen the new ammo manufactured by G2 Research called the R.I.P. "The last round you will ever need." Currently produced for 9mm, but they are coming out with .380 ACP, .357 SIG, .40 Cal, .45 ACP, and shotgun slugs. Release date of the 9mm round said to be 17 January 2014. I have yet to see any prices though. www.g2rammo.com

The New Ammunition That Has Gun Owners Drooling | Conservative Infidel Conservative Infidel

[video=youtube;mJGH7cDFw7c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJGH7cDFw7c[/video]

Here's the first independent review

[video=youtube;psGFPRpWZ3w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psGFPRpWZ3w[/video]

 

[dmanns67]

Very interesting results.

 

[Blade]

Two of my relics in the pics. Vintage late 50's or 60's guns.

Finally got time to dust them off and get started again. Like Chickenhawk (GMTNations' Canadian Firearms Expert) said, in Canada its locked up and trigger locked, unloaded. Up here if you say its for protection you will not get any permits. It is for target practice/competition only. If you are a collector up here there are more hoops including random inspections of your collection.

Anyway, now that I am going to retire the bike hobby before I kill myself, I will return to something much more safe and yet still rewarding to my free spirit! Shoot reload shoot reload shoot reload......

 

[Envoy_04]

Two of my relics in the pics. Vintage late 50's or 60's guns.

Finally got time to dust them off and get started again. Like Chickenhawk (GMTNations' Canadian Firearms Expert) said, in Canada its locked up and trigger locked, unloaded. Up here if you say its for protection you will not get any permits. It is for target practice/competition only. If you are a collector up here there are more hoops including random inspections of your collection.

Anyway, now that I am going to retire the bike hobby before I kill myself, I will return to something much more safe and yet still rewarding to my free spirit! Shoot reload shoot reload shoot reload......

Nice 1911! I'd love to have a vintage one someday, the story that goes with some of the old service weapons is neater than the actual gun sometimes.

 

[Blade]

Nice 1911! I'd love to have a vintage one someday, the story that goes with some of the old service weapons is neater than the actual gun sometimes.

Thanks. It was my Grandfathers. It was accurized by Richard Shockey, an old time gunsmith back in the day when they machined their own parts. On the bench it can still do a 4" group at 50 yds. I wish I could!

 

[Fire06]

Nice.

 

[TollKeeper]

We have multiple pistols in this house. 2 of them are always loaded, with 1 in the chamber. The one that my wife, and myself can shoot acurately(it does have a safety). And my brothers (does not have a safety). I will admit that the mags are not fully loaded, don't want to weaken the spring for long periods of sitting. But there are enough rounds in them to put someone down. The rest remain unloaded, and in a locked, albeit glass windowed, gun case. I have watched, and partaken, in many gun safety training exercises. My wife as well. My brother has been to NRA classes, and has a CCW.

My neighbors are all armed, and we are not scared about letting people know about it. Does this stop the kids from coming around at Halloween? Nope! Does my street also have the lowest crime rate in the city? YES!

Now I don't know about this discussion about wounding someone, instead of killing them. How are you to know if this person is armed or not? And if you wound him, and he is on the ground, haven't you just cornered a beast? They committed to the outcome of the altercation when they entered my house! I didn't have a choice, and yet I should give them one? And why is it that when someone breaks into my house, to deprive me of my liberty, and possibly my life, that I cant defend it (my house) like I would my wife, children, or family. Personally, I would rather not have him go back out on the streets, with this revolving door court system, than for him to come back, and try his luck again? I am a firm believer in "Dead is Down, and there aint not getting up from dead", well of course they happen to be a zombie!

I recently got into an argument with a guy about gun laws. He believes that no one should have a gun until psychiatric evaluations can be done on everyone that has/wants one. And who is going to administer this test, the government? And who is going to set the bar as to what is "psychiatrically bad, or good"? Look at our last couple presidents, senate, house, etc, and tell me that's a good idea.

A government is supposed to be "for the people, and by the people". They may be people, but I have yet to meet any politician that is like 90% of the people in this country. They are more akin to the top 2%, depending on who is lining his pockets the deepest.

But I digress. I managed to pick up some ammo for my Mauser, MilSurp, at 21 cents a round. Cheaper than I can reload them for! Now if it would only warm up so I can go up to the range, and get my scope dialed in. -22 is just a bit to cold!

 

[Blade]

I just went to the range two days in a row. You would think that with practice I would get better. Day two I did get to shoot my buddies' Sig and Walther. Nice 9mms that are really accurate out of the box. The Sig had a nice little white dot on the front site and after a coaching lesson on the military sighting set-up I was great at 7 meters.

I then returned to my guns shooting at 15 meters and had a heck of a time getting inside of 4 inches to the bull. I started switching eyes and then finally realized that at my age ....maybe shooting is like sex.....once a week is plenty!

 

[jbones]

My new 686-4.

View attachment 32581

 

[Fire06]

I just went to the range two days in a row. You would think that with practice I would get better. Day two I did get to shoot my buddies' Sig and Walther. Nice 9mms that are really accurate out of the box. The Sig had a nice little white dot on the front site and after a coaching lesson on the military sighting set-up I was great at 7 meters.

I then returned to my guns shooting at 15 meters and had a heck of a time getting inside of 4 inches to the bull. I started switching eyes and then finally realized that at my age ....maybe shooting is like sex.....once a week is plenty!

Speak for your self. When it comes to sex once a week is definitely not enough.

 

[Blade]

I guess that could have been a better analogy......:beer:

 

[IllogicTC]

Speak for your self. When it comes to sex once a week is definitely not enough.

Then maybe you need to exchange your model of wife for one of the newer models. They have them ones that go like a banshee now, you know.

 

[charger22]

One of a few. Ruger scout.

 

[Short Bus]

New York legal AR-15

Manufacturers Change Look of AR-15; Rifle Is Now Legal in New York State | National Review Online