Thinking of the Baby Duramax

Mooseman

Original poster
Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,178
Ottawa, ON
No news yet except that the truck is still sitting without a PCM. Dealer can't promise anything but he's hoping early Aug. He has been receiving other previously ordered trucks so he's hopeful mine will move soon. In the meanwhile, I'm taking the Avalanche on a trip to Montreal for the weekend with the trailer. Since it's just a two hour drive, it shouldn't break the bank too much :frown:

Continuing to watch truck porn while I'm waiting. This one is very interesting, explaining all the tech and innovations in these engines. Also some explanation why they went with an inline 6 instead of a V configuration and it makes sense.

 

BrianF

Member
Jul 24, 2013
1,185
West central Sask.
Oh great a swirl valve. Hopefully not plastic gear actuator like the ecodiesels. The egr and ccv would cause them to gum up and break the plastic gears.

You know Moose, you could always pickup a 2018 or earlier Ram 3500 or even the 2500 with a buttery smooth ISB6.7..... gear driven cam, mechanical flat tapped lifters with enough shake to rock the truck on shut down. Just saying....
 
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Mooseman

Original poster
Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,178
Ottawa, ON
It's an idea however the boss doesn't want me to buy used. Heck, she doesn't even want me to buy that used 2021 Babymax although the way things are going, I might have to go that route.
 
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BrianF

Member
Jul 24, 2013
1,185
West central Sask.
Ahhh just being a dick. The HD trucks sound like not a good fit. Too tall, too bouncy, too lethargic unless you plan on towinf heavy and towing often.

That small diesel half ton sounds like a great fit. Should ride and drive like a gasser car. That mileage will be the cats ass, which no HD can touch.

Then there is the damned used market and the finance rates. You just can't touch new. Buy a used vehicle at an inflated price and get raped in the rate.
 
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Mooseman

Original poster
Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,178
Ottawa, ON
Definitely a 1500 is better suited to my towing needs and the fuel economy will be great when just cruising around. Bigger is not necessarily better as I would be miserable with anything bigger. My nephew just bought a 2500 Sierra with the 6.6 Diesel and he paid almost $100k! He will be towing an excavator with it so that is better suited for him but man, it's practically a mortgage he's paying!

Oh, and that used one is gone. Figured it wouldn't last long.

One issue I did find with it that multiple dealers couldn't figure out, thinking it was a "valve" was actually either bad or water contaminated DEF. Because they sit for so long without a PCM before being delivered, the DEF can go bad just sitting in the tank. It was the owner, not the dealer nor GM that figured it out.

 
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BrianF

Member
Jul 24, 2013
1,185
West central Sask.
Thats a nice read. Thats a real good point about sitting for so long. Also truck could be shipped with summer blend and sit through winter, fuel gels. It would not hurt to drain the fuel filter/water separator and top up with some fresh def.

Now to be fair I never had def quality issues. During covid and a bit before we barely drove our truck. It went months before having any added. No issues. Mind you other issues arose.
 
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TollKeeper

Supporting Donor
Member
Dec 3, 2011
8,028
Brighton, CO
Mind you, the following is for my fleet of semi-trucks, close to 100.

We have trucks that occasionally sit for a few months, or even close to half a year. Wrecks do happen, and you gotta rebuild em.

We found the only time we had DEF quality issues was when we bought the jugs of fluid from a store (Advance, NAPA, Wal-Mart, etc). The only time we did not have DEF quality issues was when purchasing from a pump dispenser, from a truck stop.

We found out where that truck stop was buying their product from (Offen Petroleum), and arranged to buy a bulk container, and fill our trucks from that. All our DEF quality issues went away, literally overnight.

The bonus was, we also pay about 1/3 (or more) of the cost then we were paying for containers. We pay about $0.97-1.23 a gallon for DEF. I see the container stuff selling anywhere from 3-6.00 bucks a gallon.
 

littleblazer

Member
Jul 6, 2014
9,265
Ordered in September... delivered 2 weeks ago.

And before you ask, it's going for a body upfit. It would have been cheaper to do a non bed delete truck however. Diesel is no longer exempt from inspection so the only real plus of it here is gone. For what it needs to be, it'll hopefully go 300k like the 07 did.
20210707_130326.jpg
 

TollKeeper

Supporting Donor
Member
Dec 3, 2011
8,028
Brighton, CO
Just a question for you on that truck (getting way off topic here)..

Our company insurance person told us to NEVER buy a "Incomplete" truck. For insurance purposes, a "incomplete" represents a work truck under higher liability.
They suggested we buy whatever truck complete, and sell off the bed, and modify as needed. How have your insurance rates been for this type of vehicle?
 
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littleblazer

Member
Jul 6, 2014
9,265
Just a question for you on that truck (getting way off topic here)..

Our company insurance person told us to NEVER buy a "Incomplete" truck. For insurance purposes, a "incomplete" represents a work truck under higher liability.
They suggested we buy whatever truck complete, and sell off the bed, and modify as needed. How have your insurance rates been for this type of vehicle?
I couldn't tell you because the dealer screwed up the paper work and it was sold as a non commercial... meaning it gets the 5 year inspection sticker vs the 2 for commercial in our state for new vehicles. That being said, I'd have to check but I don't think they made a distinction about it.
 

TollKeeper

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Mooseman

Original poster
Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,178
Ottawa, ON
Either way , I have no choice but to wait. I know they closed the truck plants for a few weeks while they try to play catch-up. At least I'm not totally out of a truck for now and can still travel.
 
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mntegra01

Member
Mar 26, 2018
86
Virginia
Just going to jump in here and say the FEW 3.0L inline 6s we have seen, 2 of them started leaking oil from rear main seal. Replaced the seal and they came back in a month or two. replaced the rear cover plate and all has been good. Keep an eye on your oil level. There are lots of trans cooler pipes and egr cooler pipes and tons of stuff in the way to remove the transmission. GM Parts guy here and I work directly with the techs.
 

Mooseman

Original poster
Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,178
Ottawa, ON
Thanks for the info. Maybe a first year snafu? And like you said, only a few showed with this defect. Remember the cylinder liners that dropped in the first 4.2's? And the leaky front diff that was modified? The thing that really scares me is the tranny since it's a GM/Ferd collaborative creation. Hopefully it's more GM than Ford.

Still no word on mine. Some talk out there is that some 2021s will still be waiting when the 2022s start rolling out and people won't want the 2021s anymore, possibly bringing even more incentives to take these off their hands when they do get chips. This could be especially true for those who lament the current interior and they come out with a new one.
 

northcreek

Member
Jan 15, 2012
3,296
WNY
One issue I did find with it that multiple dealers couldn't figure out, thinking it was a "valve" was actually either bad or water contaminated DEF.
But, it's already 1/3 piss.... :biggrin:

" This additive is also called aqueous urea solution 32% or AUS 32. It’s made from 32.5% urea and 67.5% de-ionized water."
 
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littleblazer

Member
Jul 6, 2014
9,265
I mean the 6.6 gasser is currently leaking more oil than the 07 it replaced and it has what... 1800 miles on it? So far they can't figure out where it's coming from. And GM has been building LS/LT style engines for how long now? Started around 150 miles... so day 2.
 

Mooseman

Original poster
Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,178
Ottawa, ON
Geez, and also my 08 6.0L gasser with 215k km is as dry as the desert. I sure hope it's not a trend.
 
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littleblazer

Member
Jul 6, 2014
9,265
07 is dry as well, the power steering did seep but never lost a drop of oil over 300k miles of service.
 

Mooseman

Original poster
Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,178
Ottawa, ON
Still no news however I'm having buyer's remorse even before buying it. Buying or leasing it would cost over $900/month, money I don't really have. I can't trade in the Avy because it's too old and I would lose too much money on it. And my credit rating has taken a beating lately after I got visited by the legalized mafia called the government when they took half of my inheritance from my mother so I'm basically broke.

The new vehicle market is too insane right now with dealers selling at MSRP (or more), no wiggle room at all to haggle. This quote stayed with me:
Just a matter of, do I want to feel shitty at the gas station or shittier at the bank...

I was also thinking of leasing it because 1. It's a relatively new unproven engine and tranny so longevity is unknown, and 2. If it turns out to be a lemon, I can walk away after 3 years. However, if it turns out to be a great truck and want to keep it, it would cost more to buy it out and the end of the term than buying it.

The Avy is working and can do the job of towing the RV even though it costs me a truck payment but that's just for when I'm towing. Otherwise, it costs me nothing. Towing with it flatland I was able to muster 10MPG, which wasn't too bad for this truck. And the season is coming to a close soon so I won't need to tow so much. Other times, I don't drive that much anymore and it's spread out over 3 vehicles. I've fixed just about everything on the Avy (knock on wood!)

Next year may be different but for now, too many things going against it. If it's still just as crazy, then I might just keep rolling with the Avy. I might just call the dealer to call it off and get my deposit back.
 
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TollKeeper

Supporting Donor
Member
Dec 3, 2011
8,028
Brighton, CO
Trading the Avy is not an option, in my book, ever. Your going to do better selling it outright.

All that aside, I think you should do a lease, if the payment goes down. For me, after down payment, the payment dropped considerably.

If you like it, and the market bottoms out because it is a 2021 (which we know it will), you could see about buying it from the dealer at that point. If its a dud, turn it back in, and call it a day.

Everyones broke.. Its just a matter of brokeness.

Gas Pump, or bank.. Gas pump always turns into larger costs as wear and tear on the vehicle. It is a older Avy, and its coming, one way or another. At least with a new truck, its under warranty, but currently, no rental cars are available if there is a problem.
 

NJTB

Member
Aug 27, 2012
612
Flemington, NJ
Still no news however I'm having buyer's remorse even before buying it. Buying or leasing it would cost over $900/month, money I don't really have. I can't trade in the Avy because it's too old and I would lose too much money on it. And my credit rating has taken a beating lately after I got visited by the legalized mafia called the government when they took half of my inheritance from my mother so I'm basically broke.

The new vehicle market is too insane right now with dealers selling at MSRP (or more), no wiggle room at all to haggle. This quote stayed with me:


I was also thinking of leasing it because 1. It's a relatively new unproven engine and tranny so longevity is unknown, and 2. If it turns out to be a lemon, I can walk away after 3 years. However, if it turns out to be a great truck and want to keep it, it would cost more to buy it out and the end of the term than buying it.

The Avy is working and can do the job of towing the RV even though it costs me a truck payment but that's just for when I'm towing. Otherwise, it costs me nothing. Towing with it flatland I was able to muster 10MPG, which wasn't too bad for this truck. And the season is coming to a close soon so I won't need to tow so much. Other times, I don't drive that much anymore and it's spread out over 3 vehicles. I've fixed just about everything on the Avy (knock on wood!)

Next year may be different but for now, too many things going against it. If it's still just as crazy, then I might just keep rolling with the Avy. I might just call the dealer to call it off and get my deposit back.
Damn, Canada must have some crazy inheritance laws.
 
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Mooseman

Original poster
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Dec 4, 2011
25,178
Ottawa, ON
No inheritance tax here, just income tax. She had it all in a RIF (Retirement Income Fund) which was transferred from a RRSP (Registered retirement savings plan) when she turned 70. Basically it's tax sheltered until you take it out when you are retired at a lower tax rate due to the lower income. However, if you die, it is considered as having withdrawn the whole thing at that time and taxed at the highest tax rate. And because she lived in Quebec, it's even higher.

I do have the house that's mortgage free, however it's not liquid cash and because of my shitty credit score, which was excellent until I had to pay off the mafia, I was turned down for a HELOC on it. Before I apply at another bank, I wanna build it back up a bit and having a truck payment wouldn't help.

With camping season winding down, I won't need the diesel so much so I would be making those payments for nothing.

I can keep the Avy going for another year or two and deal with the gas. It's just not the right time. In two years, Mrs. Moose should be retired and we will be traveling more, the house sold, credit score will be healthier, the Babymax should have proven itself, the car market should be back to normal, rainbows and unicorns should be plentiful.

Once the truck comes in, whenever that is, I'll still meet with the dealer but will be honest about my financial situation. Unless it becomes a smoking hot deal because it's a 2021 and the 2022's are out, then I might reconsider.

BTW, a lot of advice I've been getting from a YT channel called Your Auto Advocate. A retired dealer salesman is just throwing so much info out there, most of it for free. They even have a paid service where you can have them on a phone call when you're dealing with them. They also have online tools that unfortunately don't work in Canada but absolutely fantastic for the US.
 
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Matt

Member
Dec 2, 2011
4,009
What I'm scratching my head over is the fact that you paying a large amount of tax on an inheritance dropped your credit score. WTAF?
 
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Mooseman

Original poster
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Dec 4, 2011
25,178
Ottawa, ON
I had to max out my lines of credit to cover it and using my credit cards more since. I had been paying them off completely every month up until then. I also had some expenses last year which ate up a lot of the inheritance. Basically, I paid off all my debts with it but had to go back into debt to pay the tax. Maxing out your lines of credit will do that.
 
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NJTB

Member
Aug 27, 2012
612
Flemington, NJ
Ya know, my parents always made it seem life was easier when they retired, but it sure isn't.
Worked a job for 18 years that I liked, then the company was sold, new company wasn't that good to work for, so I retired at 71yo in 2021. Just got too old to put up with the bullshit.
Paid off everything except the house, figured my money out for 10 years (I know I'm not living to 81).
If this type of thing (taxes) hit me, I'd have to declare bankruptsy.
 
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Mooseman

Original poster
Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,178
Ottawa, ON
I do have a good pension so I'm good in that sense. I only worked for 31 years on the force but could have gone 35 to max it out but for a couple of $100/month extra on my pension, it wasn't worth it for the BS and the whiney millenials I had to supervise. And from what I hear from the barn, I'm glad I left when I did.

I might have found another truck. It's a lease takeover and it's in a colour I prefer. Just missing the tow mirrors but I can deal with that. Payments are a lot better than the $450 biweekly.


And the best thing is that it doesn't affect my credit and in less than two years can buy it out or leave it if it turns out to be a lemon. Sent him a message so just waiting for a reply.
 
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BrianF

Member
Jul 24, 2013
1,185
West central Sask.
Well thats cool you got some options. I never leased so I can't comment on that part. My question is insurance on a lease. Again, not knowing how Ontario works but insurance rates out here are a bit more on leases than outright owned. Not sure how that factors into overall cost. Also, do leases stipulate certain maintenance intervals?

On another note, we were at a horse show yesterday and parked nearby was a new 3.0 Sierra. It was a smooth sounding truck. Quick start up and very little clatter. There was a hint of turbo whistle in the air as it drove off pulling a little 2 horse angle haul. Quite smooth compared to my gear drive, solid lifter shake mobile.

Now is that the same 10 speed being used by Ford? If it is, it seems to be sturdy behind a gasser. Actually shifts good most of the time. There is the odd gear change confusion at lower speeds but overall fairly happy with it. I put on about 90,000km on my 2018 F150 work truck with the 10spd and most are hard miles.
 
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Mooseman

Original poster
Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,178
Ottawa, ON
Apparently it is the same tranny. That's why I was hoping it's more GM than Ford development.

Ill have to check for the insurance but if buying it's not that much more than the Avy. A lease may dictate gap insurance be included. That's a good point, thanks @BrianF

Still no response from him tho
 
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BrianF

Member
Jul 24, 2013
1,185
West central Sask.
The transmission really is not that bad, especially when driving reasonably. I think I was goofing around when I noticed the weird shifting but it shifted good when honking on it or towing at reasonable speeds.

My concerns were when I was ripping from forward to reverse and vice vera when giving the throttle some love. I hated the torque management and delay. Now when driving it reasonably or like how I would treat my own vehicle, its perfectly fine. The previous F150s with other transmissions did the same.
 
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Mooseman

Original poster
Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,178
Ottawa, ON
I think this dream is fading away. I just can't afford it right now. Looked into a couple of lease takeovers and I'm just being jerked around. I'm just gonna have to endure the Avy a little while longer or keep an eye out for an affordable 2500, which are next to impossible to find these days.

I still have the deposit on that Sierra that's still waiting for a chip. We'll see how that goes.
 

gmcman

Member
Dec 12, 2011
4,656
I've been away from the forums for a little bit, have you considered a 1/2 ton Silverado 6.2L max tow? I believe they can legally tow a little over 12,000 on the bumper.
 

Mooseman

Original poster
Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,178
Ottawa, ON
I've been away from the forums for a little bit, have you considered a 1/2 ton Silverado 6.2L max tow? I believe they can legally tow a little over 12,000 on the bumper.

If it's a gasser, no thanks. I think someone else mentioned it and it was something developed for certain states that require annual inspections on 3/4 ton trucks. Never seen any like that here. It would be like my 6.0L Avy. I need diesel.

What sort of specs on that 2500 are you looking at?
Just diesel I suppose. A pre-DEF or deleted one would be nice. I had found an 05 last year prior to the Avy that looked good but wound up having too many issues and questions with no answers so I passed. It's just something I'm not actively looking for but if it happens to pop up.

The local lease takeover just asked me if I want to be on his list of contacts for the lease transfer or sell. I have a feeling he's gonna sell it for more than a new one.
 

BrianF

Member
Jul 24, 2013
1,185
West central Sask.
Those early duramax powered trucks are quite nice. Not as tall as the ford/ram solid front axle trucks are like the newest trucks. The engine and transmission combination work really well and while its been years since I drove them, they were not as cumbersome as my ram. They also got great mileage.
 
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Mooseman

Original poster
Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,178
Ottawa, ON
Well I told that guy with the lease to go F himself. He's turned it into an auction. On top of the transfer fee, which is understandable, he says he's gonna give it to the one that gives him the most cash on top. Even if I would have thrown him a $1000 bone, there would have been at least one of the +25 other people that are supposedly interested that would be more desperate and offer more.

Getting dimmer... I'm not in a desperate situation like I was last year when the Saab blew up. The Avy is running fine now and the season is close to over so I can take my time and look for something more affordable then sell it at my convenience.
 
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BrianF

Member
Jul 24, 2013
1,185
West central Sask.
Glad you are in a position to wait. I hope you can find a decent GM 2500 though. Those mid 2000's would be a nice fit. Great capabilities and not such a behemoth like the newer ones.
 
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littleblazer

Member
Jul 6, 2014
9,265
The 07 is still probably one of my favorite trucks. Just enough improvements from the 06 but doesn't have any of the problems of the nnbs electronics yet. They ride and drive fantastic too.
 
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