Suspension choosen but should I replace....

AzTruckGuy

Well-Known Member
#1
Going for the Bell Tech 2/3 with modified arms and all new shocks, since its getting new suspension, should I get poly bushings front lower arms and rear upper and lower bars, sway bars front and rear? I have a 4x4 that I will be putting 22s and don't plan on doing any 4x4, mostly in town driving and out of town driving. Looking for tighter feel but not harsh.
 

07TrailyLS

Well-Known Member
#3
I'm 2/4 on stock 17s. The uppers you are almost required to buy from NorCal alreasy have poly bushings. Now if you were talking about the rear control arms, both of my stock ones magically shot 2 months after the drop. Dunno if the harsher ride height and bottoming out caused it or not. Definitely look into the spohn upper and lower rear adjustable control arms. And there beefier rear sway bar. Be prepared for horrible ride quality. Driving is fine for me, but the smallest bump puts me to the ceiling
 
OP
OP
AzTruckGuy

AzTruckGuy

Well-Known Member
#4
I'm 2/4 on stock 17s. The uppers you are almost required to buy from NorCal alreasy have poly bushings. Now if you were talking about the rear control arms, both of my stock ones magically shot 2 months after the drop. Dunno if the harsher ride height and bottoming out caused it or not. Definitely look into the spohn upper and lower rear adjustable control arms. And there beefier rear sway bar. Be prepared for horrible ride quality. Driving is fine for me, but the smallest bump puts me to the ceiling
I am surprised you are getting a harsh ride? Maybe its your rims and tires? I would think when you get new springs and shocks they would make the ride better, I am not looking for a soft ride, as they are SUVs, I do expect a tighter feel
 

07TrailyLS

Well-Known Member
#5
Stock rims and thick tired. It's just being lower to the ground gives your shocks and springs less room to expand and contract. Simple laws of physics kick in and voila
 

Capote

Platinum Supporter
#6
I am surprised you are getting a harsh ride? Maybe its your rims and tires? I would think when you get new springs and shocks they would make the ride better, I am not looking for a soft ride, as they are SUVs, I do expect a tighter feel
I'm sitting 3/5 on 18" 's, I feel everything, but I'm accustom to it. But she corners like a dream, I can hit a corner hard & fast with ease
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
AzTruckGuy

AzTruckGuy

Well-Known Member
#7
I was reading some comments about stock replacement suspension and lowered suspension. I come to conclusion that the lowered suspension is harsh no matter what you do and the replacement items like a Monroe Sensatrac offer a softer but firmer ride then stock. I'm debating now lowering my TrailBlazer and maybe just going stock replacement, lowering the rear only and leaving as is. To me spending all that money to get the TrailBlazer lowered and its harsh is not a good trade off
 

07TrailyLS

Well-Known Member
#10
Trust me on this. DO NOT lower just your rear UNLESS you decide to just remove rake and level to the fronts stock height. If you lower that rear 4 inches it looks hideous with the stock front. I did my tears first and then laughed looking at the stance between the two
 
OP
OP
AzTruckGuy

AzTruckGuy

Well-Known Member
#11
Trust me on this. DO NOT lower just your rear UNLESS you decide to just remove rake and level to the fronts stock height. If you lower that rear 4 inches it looks hideous with the stock front. I did my tears first and then laughed looking at the stance between the two
I don't even think there is a 4inch lowering kit for the rear? I've only seen 1.5/3 or 2/3. My rear needs to be lowered but I am looking for 2inch rear kit to level it out with the front, or I would even do a 3inch lower rear with 1inch lower front, but I cant find a .5 inch front (none) or 1inch front (2wd drive only) or a 2inch rear drop for my 4x4 03 Trailblazer
 
Last edited:
#12
I don't even think there is a 4inch lowering kit for the rear?
There is a kit that drops the rear 4", but it ain't cheap... :ugh:

TBSSOWNERS.COM SPECIAL CUSTOM 2-2.5 TRAILBLAZER SS KIT (LOWERS REGULAR TRAILBLAZER 2/4)

My rear needs to be lowered but I am looking for 2inch rear kit to level it out with the front
This is something I plan to do in the future as well, for mostly the same reason, to get rid of the rake. I'm not terribly concerned with the ride quality, since I'm not riding in the back, so I don't think it will be that big of a deal compared to the front.

@24v 4.2 helped me track down Moog's 81047 springs. They are coil spring replacements for the rear air bag system on the TBSS and Envoy Denali. You may have noticed those trucks sit level with no rake from the factory.

A few links, for your reference: Ebay, Amazon, Rock Auto
 

07TrailyLS

Well-Known Member
#13
Just for reference this is a 2 inch front 4 inch rear drop. Modded front ucas. Haven't measured but the wheel wells sit roughly 2 inches above the tire in the front and rear. Damn pics upside down again... No idea why sorry
 

Attachments

OP
OP
AzTruckGuy

AzTruckGuy

Well-Known Member
#14
@24v 4.2 helped me track down Moog's 81047 springs. They are coil spring replacements for the rear air bag system on the TBSS and Envoy Denali. You may have noticed those trucks sit level with no rake from the factory.

A few links, for your reference: Ebay, Amazon, Rock Auto
So how do you like the ride of the Moogs? They are made for the V8 and I assume a different rate than the I6 engine? How much of a drop over stock?

Just for reference this is a 2 inch front 4 inch rear drop. Modded front ucas. Haven't measured but the wheel wells sit roughly 2 inches above the tire in the front and rear. Damn pics upside down again... No idea why sorry
My pics are doing the same, thats a 4 inch drop? Im not looking to go that low, im thinking of going 18s now instead of 20s
 
Last edited by a moderator:

07TrailyLS

Well-Known Member
#15
still looking at the replica 20s myself. Let us know what you decide
 

Daniel644

Well-Known Member
#16
A good lowering kit will give a firmer ride, not always a harsh ride (although the greater the drop the higher the likely hood of a harsh ride), i've got the belltech 2/3 setup on my 4x4 and can comfortably hit speed bumps at 20MPH, sure I feel it but i'm not getting bounced around by it, very controlled and predictable, most anything is going to be firmer then stock because these trucks where ridiculously smooth riding from the factory, you will definitely feel more of the road, but thats not always a bad thing. Still rides better then most SUVs on the market, definitely beats out my parents 08/09 Highlander in ride quality. but I would add most of the stiffer ride comes from the 3" lowering springs in the back, you could go with an aftermarket air bag setup on just the rears and use the rest of the belltech kit and likely ride just as good as stock.

also on a side note concerning the sway bars, be careful about the year of your truck, different years had different sway bar sizes up front (not sure on the rear) and as a result certain years actually have MUCH larger bars then the aftermarket bars.
 
#17
So how do you like the ride of the Moogs? They are made for the V8 and I assume a different rate than the I6 engine? How much of a drop over stock?
I haven't gotten them yet, money's a little tight at the moment. Although the vehicles they are made for have V8 engines, they are the rear springs, and for the models that sit level from the factory, not with the rake that the LS/LT models have. So they should give about a 2" drop in the rear.

Also, you can click the +Quote link below multiple posts if you want to reply to multiple people at the same time in 1 post instead of many. :twocents:
 
OP
OP
AzTruckGuy

AzTruckGuy

Well-Known Member
#18
A good lowering kit will give a firmer ride, not always a harsh ride (although the greater the drop the higher the likely hood of a harsh ride), i've got the belltech 2/3 setup on my 4x4 and can comfortably hit speed bumps at 20MPH, sure I feel it but i'm not getting bounced around by it, very controlled and predictable, most anything is going to be firmer then stock because these trucks where ridiculously smooth riding from the factory, you will definitely feel more of the road, but thats not always a bad thing. Still rides better then most SUVs on the market, definitely beats out my parents 08/09 Highlander in ride quality. but I would add most of the stiffer ride comes from the 3" lowering springs in the back, you could go with an aftermarket air bag setup on just the rears and use the rest of the belltech kit and likely ride just as good as stock.

also on a side note concerning the sway bars, be careful about the year of your truck, different years had different sway bar sizes up front (not sure on the rear) and as a result certain years actually have MUCH larger bars then the aftermarket bars.
My front sway bars are huge, But I'm not doing the the 2/3..I am going to do the 1.5/2 How would this affect my sway bars?

I haven't gotten them yet, money's a little tight at the moment. Although the vehicles they are made for have V8 engines, they are the rear springs, and for the models that sit level from the factory, not with the rake that the LS/LT models have. So they should give about a 2" drop in the rear.

Also, you can click the +Quote link below multiple posts if you want to reply to multiple people at the same time in 1 post instead of many. :twocents:
Just realized the +quote feature....So you are giving me ideas...If the Moog coils you mention give a drop of 2? I wonder what the front V8 coils do?

I looked up the specs on the Moog site


Front coils stock (I6) Moog 81110

Free Height 15.67 inches

Free Height 398.12 MM

Rear coils stock (I6) Moog 81049

Free Height 17.13 inches

Free Height 434.98


Front coils stock (V8) Moog 81116

Free Height 15.18 inches

Free Height 385.57 MM

Rear coils stock (V8) Moog 81047

Free Height 16.65 inches

Free Height 422.86

I am wondering if the front and rear V8 coils are the way to go with me? It would lower my Trailblazer but not to a degree I would need to get new upper arms or deal with camber issues.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
OP
OP
AzTruckGuy

AzTruckGuy

Well-Known Member
#19
I haven't gotten them yet, money's a little tight at the moment. Although the vehicles they are made for have V8 engines, they are the rear springs, and for the models that sit level from the factory, not with the rake that the LS/LT models have. So they should give about a 2" drop in the rear.

Also, you can click the +Quote link below multiple posts if you want to reply to multiple people at the same time in 1 post instead of many. :twocents:
Are you sure about the Moog 81047? I just got mine in and they have 2 more coils then my stockers and they looks taller then the stockers as well. I just got the box from Rockauto and they are all scratched up and paint scratched because they were not protected against each other. I am a little disappointed now since I thought the SS springs were shorter then my stock LS springs 2.JPG 1.JPG
 
#20
Are you sure about the Moog 81047?
Between Rockauto, Amazon, and Ebay, all 3 of them say that part number is for SS or Denali rear replacements. Your stock springs have been under load for years, I think you need to let the new springs settle out after being on the vehicle for a bit.
 

07TrailyLS

Well-Known Member
#21
You have the cleanest rear end I've ever seen
 
OP
OP
AzTruckGuy

AzTruckGuy

Well-Known Member
#23
1.JPG


Between Rockauto, Amazon, and Ebay, all 3 of them say that part number is for SS or Denali rear replacements. Your stock springs have been under load for years, I think you need to let the new springs settle out after being on the vehicle for a bit.
Check out these coils that I find out craigslist about a month and asked the forum if they could help identify them...someone said stock coils but if you count the outside coils(not the mounting tabs) I count 5 (These are lowering coils)... My stock coils have 6 and the Moog 81047 have 8 93082_6074a69643d9c5e2b5a9c7eb2e4fba9b.jpg
 
Last edited:
#25
I don't think it's as simple as just counting the number of coils. The lowering spring you posted, sure it has less coils, but they are also larger than the Moog ones.

What was the change in height after you installed the rear springs? Did it go up, down, or stay the same?
 
OP
OP
AzTruckGuy

AzTruckGuy

Well-Known Member
#26
I don't think it's as simple as just counting the number of coils. The lowering spring you posted, sure it has less coils, but they are also larger than the Moog ones.

What was the change in height after you installed the rear springs? Did it go up, down, or stay the same?
Yes the lower springs are larger then the Moogs but they also appear to be shorter and more in line with my stock coils.

They are still in my living room, I was going to install them on Thursday but I'm debating that now and just thinking of sending them back.

So the main reason why I got them was based off my research and they seemed to be lower then my stock LS coils as you have stated by your own research.

But there is conflicting photos of the coils themselves

http://www.moog-suspension-parts.com/moog-81047 These are what I expected and these are lower then my stock coils

http://www.amazon.com/Moog-81047-Suspension-Coil-Spring/dp/compatibility-chart/B003YMHDC4 These are what I got and seem taller then the Moog website
 
Last edited:
#27
I hope you're not making your judgement based off of the pictures. They use generic photos for parts like that, and not pics of the actual item.

Since the rear springs are easier to put in, I'd say throw them on real quick and see how the truck settles in after the springs have a load on them. The spring rate has to be different than the stock ones, so they should behave differently.

If you lived closer, I'd offer to take the rear springs off your hands, but of course you're clear across the country :tongue:
 
OP
OP
AzTruckGuy

AzTruckGuy

Well-Known Member
#28
I hope you're not making your judgement based off of the pictures. They use generic photos for parts like that, and not pics of the actual item.

Since the rear springs are easier to put in, I'd say throw them on real quick and see how the truck settles in after the springs have a load on them. The spring rate has to be different than the stock ones, so they should behave differently.

If you lived closer, I'd offer to take the rear springs off your hands, but of course you're clear across the country :tongue:
http://www.fmmotorparts.com/fmstore...+Sets,+Seats,+and+Insulators&text=#undefined2 Its even on Moogs website and I just did a chat with a Moog dealer and they said the photos come from the Moog. And yes those coils pictured would lower the TB down 2inchs I believe.

Yeah tell me about it when finding parts for the TB everybody is cross country.
 
OP
OP
AzTruckGuy

AzTruckGuy

Well-Known Member
#29
I hope you're not making your judgement based off of the pictures. They use generic photos for parts like that, and not pics of the actual item.

Since the rear springs are easier to put in, I'd say throw them on real quick and see how the truck settles in after the springs have a load on them. The spring rate has to be different than the stock ones, so they should behave differently.

If you lived closer, I'd offer to take the rear springs off your hands, but of course you're clear across the country :tongue:
FYI Moog confirmed with me that the 81047 will raise the SS rear, since there was no factory springs for the SS, since they had air bags. I will be sending these back to RockAuto since they sent me a return label.

The only route I see now to even get that ugly rake off the rear is Elibach rear lowering coils or the Tahoe conversion this guys from TrailVoy did.

http://forums.trailvoy.com/showthread.php?t=80258 I wish would have read that before its good information
 
#30
FYI Moog confirmed with me that the 81047 will raise the SS rear, since there was no factory springs for the SS, since they had air bags.
That seems counter intuitive on their part. Everyone knows the SS and Denali sit lower in the rear, why not make a replacement spring that gives the same result. That's just stupid to make something different. Sucks you had to find out the hard way like that.
 
OP
OP
AzTruckGuy

AzTruckGuy

Well-Known Member
#31
That seems counter intuitive on their part. Everyone knows the SS and Denali sit lower in the rear, why not make a replacement spring that gives the same result. That's just stupid to make something different. Sucks you had to find out the hard way like that.
I agree with you on that but have you noticed how some TBs are leveled and some have the rake issues that I do? It makes no sense that Chevy would send them out this, but I am learning that Chevy themselves are counter intuitive when it came to suspension.

I wish there was a comparison of springs from different carriers on height, so one wouldn't do so much research only to realize that the stock springs are not the way to go
 

mntegra01

Well-Known Member
#32
For customers at our dealership that don't want to spend thousands on airbags and new compressor, we offer to install strutmaster springs in the rear. And our suspension guy always wants the XL springs because it sits level after the install, but towing could be an issue possibly.

It has been a while since we did such conversion, not many of these coming to dealer anymore. But I am 80% positive it was the XL/EXT springs we ordered for the shorty WB. I'll ask at work tomorrow to the suspension guy and confirm. but If anyone was curios they could call strutmasters themselves. I might do it to level out the rear a bit. I have a 2WD so no dirt for me.

I know this thread is old, but its still relevant when searching... hey, I found it 2 years later
 
#33
I'm sure there are still a few of these trucks with the bags kicking around so yeah, it could be useful to someone.

Wouldn't using XL/EXT springs make the truck have a front rake worse than they already get with the SWB springs?
 

mntegra01

Well-Known Member
#34
Ok, so I talked to the suspension guy and we used the XL/EXT because the short WB sat too low UNLOADED. The axle housings (where bottom spring perch is) have the same part number from my 2003 2wd, to a 2005 short WB, only different axle housing I see is for a V8.

So... Short WB strutmaster springs MAY lower the rear a bit, if you have OE springs to begin with. If you have air ride, it definitely will lower it from OE, which is why our suspension guy used the XL ones, which made the rake (higher in rear) a little bit higher than airbags. He said just putting 200 lbs over the rear axle made it sit right. So probably after a little settling of the spring XLs are probably the way to go. He is a very smart man and I trust his opinion.

And as far as lowering, I think I would just go for springs intended to lower the ride VS trying out Strutmasters OE springs.

But for you airbag guys that want to save $$, swapping to coil springs is not a bad option. I hope this clears it up.
 
#35
The EXT/XL uses the same axle (8.6) as the V8 trucks. Wonder if the spring perch location is different on the bigger axle than the SWB? Or maybe the bagged trucks are different?
 
#36
The location are the same on all 3 axles available and the bags do not change the mounts.
 

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
18,473
Messages
564,437
Members
11,050
Latest member
Worldbreakerrob

Members online

Latest posts

Top Bottom