Power folding mirrors

Me007gold

Original poster
Member
Nov 20, 2011
1,106
Was searching around ebay and I found this. Doing this mod cant be as simple as; the swtich, and the power folding mirrors right?. Would the BCM need to be programed? would any additional wires need to be run? I know this was brought up on the OS, but I dont think its been talked about here.

[ebay]200721265047[/ebay]
 

woody79

Member
Dec 3, 2011
351
This would be an awesome mod if it was as simple as replacing the switch and mirror. Somehow I doubt GM would make it this easy for us :hissyfit:.

I will be keeping an eye on this as I have to replace my drivers mirror sometime in the future anyway.
 

The_Roadie

Lifetime VIP Donor
Member
Nov 19, 2011
9,957
Portland, OR
I researched it using shop manual schematics extensively, and installed a folding mirror on my passenger side with manual switch control over the folding motors. Also bought a European version switch like that Ebay listing. Turns out the switch has the same guts as the OEM switch - just different silkscreening. The power folding option, IF you have it programmed into the BCM and the DDM and PDM have extra components not loaded into the domestic DDM/PDM circuit boards, runs when the mirror switch is in the central (normally unused) position and you push it fore/aft. Since our DDM/PDMs don't have these extra components (even though the circuit boards have space for them), you have to roll your own relay controls for the folding motors. So it's only going to be a mod for the advanced electrical fabricator unless somebody wants to design and start selling kits. I'm too busy. Sorry. :frown:
 

DJones

Member
Jan 21, 2012
701
St. Petersburg, Florida
What components are the DDM/PDM modules missing? Simple things such as resistors and capacitors? Or more complex things such as programmable integrated circuits?
 

kardain

Member
Dec 16, 2011
557
If the power fold is nothing more than power/ground, perhaps something like this will work... The wiring setup in the below link is similar to export Chevy Cavaliers sold under the Toyota make.... Might be possible to adapt it to USDM GMT's. Of course, being a BMW forum, the wire colors probably won't match up, but shouldn't be all that difficult... it looks to be equivalent to wiring in a set of aftermarket fog/driving lights.

http://www.e46fanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=585816
 

Blckshdw

Moderator
Nov 20, 2011
10,694
Tampa Bay Area, FL
This is pretty high up on my mod list. Actually started doodling some control diagrams last night. I've got all the goodies to make them work, just haven't bought the mirrors themselves yet. :crazy:
 

The_Roadie

Lifetime VIP Donor
Member
Nov 19, 2011
9,957
Portland, OR
kardain said:
If the power fold is nothing more than power/ground, perhaps something like this will work...
The relay in that thread is just how I wired my DPDT manual switch. What comes out of the mirror harness is two wires for the motor. Connect power and ground one way and it retracts. Switch the power and ground and it extends. The motor doesn't have a mechanical clutch, so it stalls when it hits the stops, IIRC. A good control circuit should notice this increase in current and shut off.

DJones said:
What components are the DDM/PDM modules missing? Simple things such as resistors and capacitors? Or more complex things such as programmable integrated circuits?
The biggest as I remember was a simple DPDT (dual form C) relay. The PLC in the DDM that gets programmed is already there for all the other configuration and communication functions. I just don't know if it needs to be reconfigured by a Tech II tool to add the folding mirror option or if GM has some other evil way to suppress it, such as in the BCM.

Local-only control using the switch to control the driver's mirror didn't look to be hard. It was the data bus communication over to the PDM that needs the cooperation of the BCM, I think.
 

AtlWrk

Member
Dec 6, 2011
674
This has been an on-going side project for several months now and after about two dozen iterations I've completed the design of a small prototype controller that will sit inside the driver's door. I am now just waiting on a few components to arrive to complete it. The intent is to emulate OEM operation using the existing mirror control switch (i.e. no external switches). It will require 8 connections tapped into the DDM's wiring harnesses (+1 optional):

4 to the mirror position switch
2 power/ground
2 to the mirror folding motor (these will also have to be run out the driver's door and across/into the passengers door to the passenger mirror)

1 additional wire for key-on/ignition will give auto-fold/unfold.

With the switch in neutral, pushing left will extend the mirrors. Pushing right will retract them. Twisting the switch to select either passenger/driver mirrors immediately disables the folding operation (to prevent auto un-folding at startup in a tight garage for example) and so as to not interfere with the regular mirror aiming functions. The fold/unfold is timed so the switch does not need to be held and can be interrupted by an opposite command.

Should be done in the next week or so...
 

Blckshdw

Moderator
Nov 20, 2011
10,694
Tampa Bay Area, FL
:undecided: Interesting setup. Mine will be very similar, although the timer relays I have, are activated by grounding them instead of 12V :smile:ugh: didn't realize that before I bought them), so an additional relay is getting worked into the mix.
 

The_Roadie

Lifetime VIP Donor
Member
Nov 19, 2011
9,957
Portland, OR
Very cool. I thought the OEM operation was that if the switch was in the neutral position, then fore/aft movement would operate the folding motors.

Anyway, sounds like you're going to want to buy my left-over switch. :wink:

mirrorswitch2.jpg
 

AtlWrk

Member
Dec 6, 2011
674
OEM may be fore/aft but left/right just made sense to me. It would just be a matter of switching which two wires get tapped anyway.
And sorry, my switch works just fine without the silkscreen :wink:
 

RayVoy

Member
Nov 20, 2011
939
AtlWrk said:
OEM may be fore/aft but left/right just made sense to me.
My '09 Avalanche has the folding mirror feature (and, had I used it a couple of ice storms ago, I might still have 2 good mirrors :biggrin: ). The switch on the Avalanche works left/right.
 

borretje

Member
Jan 1, 2012
94
It's on my trailblazer,I will have a look how it's wired:crazy:

John
 

TollKeeper

Supporting Donor
Member
Dec 3, 2011
8,159
Brighton, CO
AtlWrk said:
This has been an on-going side project for several months now and after about two dozen iterations I've completed the design of a small prototype controller that will sit inside the driver's door. I am now just waiting on a few components to arrive to complete it. The intent is to emulate OEM operation using the existing mirror control switch (i.e. no external switches). It will require 8 connections tapped into the DDM's wiring harnesses (+1 optional):

4 to the mirror position switch
2 power/ground
2 to the mirror folding motor (these will also have to be run out the driver's door and across/into the passengers door to the passenger mirror)

1 additional wire for key-on/ignition will give auto-fold/unfold.

With the switch in neutral, pushing left will extend the mirrors. Pushing right will retract them. Twisting the switch to select either passenger/driver mirrors immediately disables the folding operation (to prevent auto un-folding at startup in a tight garage for example) and so as to not interfere with the regular mirror aiming functions. The fold/unfold is timed so the switch does not need to be held and can be interrupted by an opposite command.

Should be done in the next week or so...

When you get a working setup complete, are you going to sell them? I would be very interested in one..
 

Matt

Member
Dec 2, 2011
4,029
TollKeeper said:
When you get a working setup complete, are you going to sell them? I would be very interested in one..

+1 :iagree:
 

AtlWrk

Member
Dec 6, 2011
674
TollKeeper said:
When you get a working setup complete, are you going to sell them? I would be very interested in one..

I have definitely considered making it available to this awesome community.

But keep in mind I'm doing this as a hobby and I'm not an electrical engineer. If you're willing to accept a certain amount of risk that this is not going to be a perfect/retail-level product I think it would be manageable on a one-off or small batch basis.

I'll put together some details this weekend
 

Matt

Member
Dec 2, 2011
4,029
AtlWrk said:
I have definitely considered making it available to this awesome community.

But keep in mind I'm doing this as a hobby and I'm not an electrical engineer. If you're willing to accept a certain amount of risk that this is not going to be a perfect/retail-level product I think it would be manageable on a one-off or small batch basis.

I'll put together some details this weekend

As long as it works properly and you've tested the piss out of it, I, for one, could live with that.
 

Black_tb

Member
Dec 6, 2011
817
any news on this yet ?
 

jimmyjam

Member
Nov 18, 2011
1,634
i have a funny feeling you'll be seeing an update on this subject from someone early next week... :confused::undecided::thumbsup:
 

Blckshdw

Moderator
Nov 20, 2011
10,694
Tampa Bay Area, FL
jimmyjam said:
i have a funny feeling you'll be seeing an update on this subject from someone early next week... :confused: :undecided: :thumbsup:
Can someone say, spoiler alert? :tongue: Here's my version of this mod, using a number of relays, diodes, and plenty of wiring.

Disclaimer: I assume anyone attempting this mod has a general understanding of how a relay works, so I'm going to skip over the dirty details involved there.



Starting with the auto-fold logic:

Used a standard 5 pin relay, to connect the timer relays to ground. Used fuse #47 (Ign 0) as the trigger, and a seat bolt as the grounding point.

IgnitionTap.jpg



Ran a pair of wires from there up to the headlight switch area to the pair of Directed Electronics 528T pulse timer relays I grabbed off Ebay. Yellow and Red get connected to constant 12V, black to ground. Brown is the Extend/Retract output signal for the mirrors, and the black & white striped wire is the trigger input from the ignition-ground.

Note: My 528Ts did not work according to the directions, cutting the blue loops didn't cause them to activate properly when the trigger input lost its ground signal. So in the pic, both B&W wires are connected together, but after I took that pic, I separated them and ran them to their own signals from the relay in the rear block after resoldering the blue wires back together

528Tschematic.jpg


528Ts.jpg




Moving to the OEM switch logic:

Used a DPDT relay hooked up as previously discussed, so when the switch is in the neutral position, Left will extend the mirrors, Right will retract them. When the switch is set to Driver or Passenger, you'll have normal mirror glass activity, and the mirrors themselves will stay put.

PowerFoldSwitchModule.jpg


MirrorSwitch.jpg




Combine the signals through a Polarity Switcher for the mirrors:

Using the same logic from the 194 switchback controller, I used another DPDT relay to accept the inputs from the 528Ts and the switch. Had to put a pair of diodes inline between the switch outputs and the junction with the 528Ts to prevent backfeeding upon startup and shut down. (since the 528Ts use the normally open connection, that aspect is essentially built in) The Retract (+) and Extend (-) are connected to each other, and the Extend (+) and Retract (-) are connected to each other.

UnderDashPowerFoldingPolarityModule.jpg


MirrorPolaritySwitcher.jpg


As you can see, bullet connectors were my connector of choice, that way I could make it modular and easier for installation and modifications. Of course you know it wouldn't be right if I didn't fit some LEDs in wherever possible. So I Dremeled out part of the turn signal insert, and hacked up a pair of 3157 sockets so they could fit snugly. Already had a parking light wire ran to my doors from a previous LED mirror mod, so just had to connect those up, and now I've got switchbacks in the front, corners and mirrors. Add it all together with some paint and Niteshades, and you get this.

 
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ScarabEpic22

Member
Nov 20, 2011
728
Looks great to me! Id probably want to not have them automatically fold/extend on key-on, if Im in a tight parking spot and have to back out first I wouldnt want them extending before I wanted them to! (But having the option to make them do that is great, maybe put a switch somewhere so you can choose if they auto fold/extend on key-on/off?)

So the inevitable question is what is the parts list and approx cost to do this? Ive wanted this ability on my SS (and my 02) for a while now, be helpful when parking downtown on the street.
 

kardain

Member
Dec 16, 2011
557
If I'm understanding the write up correctly, the ign0 wire triggers the autofold... If so, putting a switch on the ign0 wire before the relay or between the relay output and the 528T should prevent autofold (probably before the relay would be best).

The parts list looks to be a spdt relay, 2 dpdt relays, 2 528T thingys and a bunch of wire and connectors.
 

Blckshdw

Moderator
Nov 20, 2011
10,694
Tampa Bay Area, FL
I thought about putting an auto-fold-override mechanism in there somewhere, but I figured if the spot I was in was that tight, I wouldn't have been able to open my doors in the first place :bonk: If I'm working on a mod that requires the truck to be on, I can just unplug the add-a-fuse during testing, and that should be fine. :undecided: You could also put a switch in the headlight switch module, and just interrupt the trigger input to the 'extend' timer relay, that would work too for your scenario.

Kardain pretty much nailed the parts list, toss in a few diodes and you have it. Of course, the mirrors were the biggest expense, they seem to range from $105-$130 depending on some random factor. 2 days after I bought mine at $114, they dropped to $107 :mad: All in all, without the switchbacks, you're probably looking at about $150 depending on where you get your parts, or if you've got stuff laying around already. :yes:
 

kardain

Member
Dec 16, 2011
557
You know the inevitable question.... What size diodes? :raspberry:

Nicely done writeup. I think I may do this sometime, sans switchbacks.
 

Blckshdw

Moderator
Nov 20, 2011
10,694
Tampa Bay Area, FL
Thanks man, here's the Ebay seller I got my diodes from, and have been using these for all my mods to date.

[EBAY]320794009399[/EBAY]
 

jimmyjam

Member
Nov 18, 2011
1,634
i'm a little confused, what are these relay things you speak of :confused: can you post a step by step how-to?
 

Blckshdw

Moderator
Nov 20, 2011
10,694
Tampa Bay Area, FL
jimmyjam said:
i'm a little confused, what are these relay things you speak of :confused: can you post a step by step how-to?

:raspberry: How much is it worth to ya? :undecided:
 

jimmyjam

Member
Nov 18, 2011
1,634
i'm feeling funny... this weird sensation i've never felt before... :worried:

i think its what you people call jealousy... i don't like this feeling... :frown:
 

SBUBandit

Member
Dec 5, 2011
597
jimmyjam said:
i'm feeling funny... this weird sensation i've never felt before... :worried:

i think its what you people call jealousy... i don't like this feeling... :frown:

Looks great. I assume you can also manually fold/extend with truck running? Also, have you tested if they return to normal operation easily if someone grabs one and manually folds it in?
 

Blckshdw

Moderator
Nov 20, 2011
10,694
Tampa Bay Area, FL
SBUBandit said:
Looks great. I assume you can also manually fold/extend with truck running? Also, have you tested if they return to normal operation easily if someone grabs one and manually folds it in?

You can control them manually with the switch whether the truck is running or not. Since the timer relays use the normally open connection, no signal runs through them except for the 5 second period they are activated by the state change of the ignition. If the mirrors are folded in either direction manually, it doesn't make any difference. The motor runs in both directions depending on where you apply the power/ground connections, if it's already at the end of it's travel range for that direction, the motor just stalls out.
 

Blckshdw

Moderator
Nov 20, 2011
10,694
Tampa Bay Area, FL
Shownmyss said:
The link to the diodes is gone.:confused:

:tiphat: Welcome neighbor! If you click the View & Bid button in the Ebay ad, it should take you to where you need to be if you wanted to buy them. :yes:
 

The_Roadie

Lifetime VIP Donor
Member
Nov 19, 2011
9,957
Portland, OR
Shownmyss said:
The link to the diodes is gone.:confused:
The Ebay link? In any event, diodes are pretty much diodes. A commodity. Just get ones with a voltage rating above 40-50V and a current rating above 1 Amp. Zener diodes are a specialty item used for voltage regulation not needed for this application. Typically wholesale these kinds of things are under a dime apiece, although you may pay more for small volumes at Radio Shack.
 

fr34kout

Member
Jan 6, 2012
662
At radioshack (at least in Hawaii) you pay around $3 for a 2 pack. Adds up quick when you're doing your own custom applications. On the other hand I picked up a 50 pack on ebay for just around 5 bucks shipped from china.
 

Shownmyss

Member
Jun 11, 2012
16
I want to wire mine up just to the switch. I'm guessing it should b similar leaving out some relays and an ignition wire. This way seams to b alot easier.
 

cameeks

Member
Jun 23, 2012
4
I worked a couple of days trying to get this right for my first post on this forum. Using all the pics and help from Blckshdw I came up with this. Hope it helps.:popcorn:

LINK

Foldingmirrors.jpg
 
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