More PIDs for Torque App

[TJBaker57]

Would the V6 engine section apply to our straight six?

No. At least as far as I know.

Just glancing over them now I can say the first 5 use PID1103. We do not have a 1103 in our 4.2 LL8.

The last two use PID 1101 which also is not supported by our 4.2 liter P10 PCM.

The rest use PID 1100 which we do have but we have different outputs there.

Some of the listings for the V6 engine, such as shift solenoids, etc., we have already discovered in other PID numbers here in this thread.

 

[maddogzx14]

I am in need of the Camshaft Retard Offset PID and settings for a 1999 Suburban 5.7 I forgot to mention this is for Torque Pro. I'm new to this. I'm used to Snap-On scanners.

 

[mrrsm]

@TJBaker57 ... Not certain if this plays into the PID theme exactly... but THIS PDF is a 64 Page List of ALL the "Programmable" Modules that SHOULD be present in the included 1993-2008 GM & GMC Vehicles to take the guess work out of wondering if they are present and working... or not and can be affected by such modification:

https://www.aa1car.com/library/gm_reprogrammable_modules.pdf

 

[azswiss]

Two possibilities in Torque Pro GM Enhanced PIDS: Knock Retard (2211a6) and Knock Retard Alternative (22125d).

 

[TJBaker57]

Two possibilities in Torque Pro GM Enhanced PIDS: Knock Retard (2211a6) and Knock Retard Alternative (22125d).

I can say this much, the 2002 & 2003 P10 PCM doesn't have a 125D. They do have a 11A6 but I have no record of having personally confirmed that it is knock retard. Seems very likely though. Knock sensors 1 and 2 for the LL8 are 12F6 and 147A

 

[maddogzx14]

This is for the Vortech 350 you have to set the CMP at 0 deg at 1000 rpm or set a code P1345

 

[azswiss]

Attached please find my first pass compilation of PID info from this thread and from several other sites as well. Notes & caveats:
1) This list does not include the GM Extended PIDs from Torque Pro.
2) Vehicle application is specified if available
3) A Source/Reference link is provided for each line item
4) Incomplete/confusing equations are flagged with "????"
Much respect to TJBaker57 & YUKON87 as the bulk of this info comes from their comments.

Comments welcome & greatly encouraged, especially with respect to equation definition & vehicle application.

 

[mrobins20]

You guys are great! Very helpful information for sure. I have an older vehicle that I LS (5.3 w/ 4L60E) swapped and am using a PCM from a 2002 Camaro/Firebird.

Since the car is older I am trying to determine somehow to read an odometer from the OBD2 port and Torque Pro. The one PID I found (the post (spreadsheet) above doesn't work for me. Is there something else I can try? Is there a calculation that can be used with the VSS?

The other item I am trying to resolve is the gas gauge. Can I use a analog to digital converter to feed the correct pin on the ECM to get a gas gauge in Torque?

Hope you guys have some suggestions, thanks!
MIke

 

[azswiss]

First, check to see what PIDs are available for your vehicle. In the image below available PIDS are highlighted in green and unavailable PIDS are not highlighted.



There is a GM Odometer PID listed in Torque Pro but it is not available for my vehicle. However, I believe odometer data is stored in the Instrument Cluster Panel so unless you have implemented a corresponding IPC in your vehicle the point is moot.

Regarding fuel level, start by ensuring the resistance range from the sending unit is consistent with the resistance range for the PCM you are using. For 2002 vintage vehicles the range is 40ohms (Empty) to 250ohms (Full). No A/D conversion required.

Torque Pro has two potential Fuel Level PIDS: "Fuel Level (from ECU)" and "Fuel Remaining (Calculated from vehicle profile)". Trying each out on my 2003 Suburban 5.3L/4L60E I got no data from the first (not available) and questionable (50% from data vs. 33% gas gauge) from the second.



Good luck.

 

[mrrsm]

@maddogzx14 ... Just In Case you don't find a Torque Pro PID or have access to a Tech 2, Snap-On Verus or other expensive scanner, this is a "Mechanical Method" that may be a workaround for sorting out the P1345 Code Cam Retard Offset issue within the Distributor on some of the GM 350 CID 5.7L Engines:

 

[mrobins20]

First, check to see what PIDs are available for your vehicle. In the image below available PIDS are highlighted in green and unavailable PIDS are not highlighted.

View attachment 101415

There is a GM Odometer PID listed in Torque Pro but it is not available for my vehicle. However, I believe odometer data is stored in the Instrument Cluster Panel so unless you have implemented a corresponding IPC in your vehicle the point is moot.

Regarding fuel level, start by ensuring the resistance range from the sending unit is consistent with the resistance range for the PCM you are using. For 2002 vintage vehicles the range is 40ohms (Empty) to 250ohms (Full). No A/D conversion required.

Torque Pro has two potential Fuel Level PIDS: "Fuel Level (from ECU)" and "Fuel Remaining (Calculated from vehicle profile)". Trying each out on my 2003 Suburban 5.3L/4L60E I got no data from the first (not available) and questionable (50% from data vs. 33% gas gauge) from the second.

View attachment 101416

Good luck.

Thank you! You've given me a place to start!

 

[TJBaker57]

Since the car is older I am trying to determine somehow to read an odometer from the OBD2 port and Torque Pro. The one PID I found (the post (spreadsheet) above doesn't work for me. Is there something else I can try?

Tell me specifically what you tried. I have a way for getting odometer from the cluster of TrailBlazers using Torque Pro. I don't think I have posted that in this thread. Mostly because it is not a PID really. But let's see what you tried.

 

[mrobins20]

Tell me specifically what you tried. I have a way for getting odometer from the cluster of TrailBlazers using Torque Pro. I don't think I have posted that in this thread. Mostly because it is not a PID really. But let's see what you tried.

Hi, I've only tried the gm.odo pid. I have a cable driven speedo/odometer that are no longer used as I now run a 4l60e. I'd like to use a complete torque dash but I'm not sure how to get the odometer data, mine does not go green in the pid section of torque so I guess I don't have that. I was wondering if it could be calculated using the VSS which I do have but even then it would have to be stored to accumulate miles?

Mike

 

[TJBaker57]

The other item I am trying to resolve is the gas gauge. Can I use a analog to digital converter to feed the correct pin on the ECM to get a gas gauge in Torque

Fairly certain the fuel gauge input to the ECM/PCM will be analog, likely a varying voltage.

 

[mrobins20]

Fairly certain the fuel gauge input to the ECM/PCM will be analog, likely a varying voltage.

I just looked at the pin out chart for 2002 and didn't see a fuel gauge pin address so I might be sol lol. I'll keep looking.

 

[TJBaker57]

Hi, I've only tried the gm.odo pid

I don't know which that is so I guess we will just drop that. And as you say, it does't work for you anyway.


The fuel level sender resistance can also be inverted. I have read that this is the case with GMT360/370 platform. At some year they flipped it so if you get the wrong year fuel pump & sender module your fuel gauge will read backwards!!

 

[mrobins20]

I don't know which that is so I guess we will just drop that. And as you say, it does't work for you anyway.


The fuel level sender resistance can also be inverted. I have read that this is the case with GMT360/370 platform. At some year they flipped it so if you get the wrong year fuel pump & sender module your fuel gauge will read backwards!!

Ok, thanks for the tip, I'll keep researching to see if I can find the input number on the ecm.

 

[mrobins20]

One more question, is there a pid for trip mileage? I could use that for odometer with the data stored to the torque log?

Mike

 

[azswiss]

Torque does have a PID for Trip Distance. You will have to check for availability on your vehicle. As a final alternative, you might want to check out third party apps that use GPS for speed & trip mileage.

 

[mrobins20]

Hi,

I was hoping someone could help me with an equation, math is not my strong suit. I am using the PID's below to see if my fans are running. The equation works but only gives me a 0 or 1 result. Is there a way for it to give me a response of On or Off?

Fan-1 status -F8	Fan1 V8	221100​	(A&64)/64	0​	1​	Bit	Auto
Fan-2 status -F8	Fan2 V8	221100​	(A&128)/128	0​	1​	Bit	Auto

Regards,
Mike

 

[azswiss]

Making an educated guess here (based on the great work by TJBaker57) but you might try the following:

Fan-1 status -F8	Fan1 V8	221100	Lookup(Bit((A&64)/64)::0='Off':1='On')	0	1	Bit	Auto
Fan-2 status -F8	Fan2 V8	221100	Lookup(Bit((A&128)/128)::0='Off':1='On')	0	1	Bit	Auto

 

[TJBaker57]

Hi,

I was hoping someone could help me with an equation, math is not my strong suit. I am using the PID's below to see if my fans are running. The equation works but only gives me a 0 or 1 result. Is there a way for it to give me a response of On or Off?

Fan-1 status -F8	Fan1 V8	221100​	(A&64)/64	0​	1​	Bit	Auto
Fan-2 status -F8	Fan2 V8	221100​	(A&128)/128	0​	1​	Bit	Auto

Regards,
Mike

Your math is already there and if the "0" or the "1" it returns appears to be correct by your observations there is nothing more that need be done as far as the math goes.

What you really need here is a function I have not seen in similar apps but Torque Pro has it. It's called "Lookup" and is somewhat explained earlier in the thread but let's have a look here and see if I can write out a guess as to what you need.

What the Lookup function does is allow you to substitute a word or phrase for a given value. You don't say whether the "0" or the "1" means ON or OFF. I will assume 1 is ON and 0 is OFF.

Here is a link to the documentation for that function...

Equations - Torque Wiki

torque-bhp.com

Here is a possible equation to try..

Fan2 Lookup(Bit(A:7)::0='OFF':1='ON')

Fan1 Lookup(Bit(A:6)::0='OFF':1='ON')

 

[azswiss]

Swing & a miss by azswiss! Not at all surprised that I stand corrected. Much respect to TJBaker57.

 

[TJBaker57]

Swing & a miss by azswiss! Not at all surprised that I stand corrected. Much respect to TJBaker57.

You were on the right track! And we do not yet know if my guess works.

I used the more familiar way of getting at the bits in question. I had seen but never understood the precise operation of the syntax "(A&64)/64", "(A&128)/128" etc. It took me an hour or more of Googling before I found the answer.

Understanding the behavior of a single ampersand operator (&) on integers

I understand that the single ampersand operator is normally used for a 'bitwise AND' operation. However, can anyone help explain the interesting results you get when you use it for comparison betwe...

stackoverflow.com

 

[azswiss]

Thanks for the links; was wrestling with the "&" operator. In that case, could I rewrite Fan1 as Lookup((A&64)/64::0='Off':1='On')?

 

[mrobins20]

Your math is already there and if the "0" or the "1" it returns appears to be correct by your observations there is nothing more that need be done as far as the math goes.

What you really need here is a function I have not seen in similar apps but Torque Pro has it. It's called "Lookup" and is somewhat explained earlier in the thread but let's have a look here and see if I can write out a guess as to what you need.

What the Lookup function does is allow you to substitute a word or phrase for a given value. You don't say whether the "0" or the "1" means ON or OFF. I will assume 1 is ON and 0 is OFF.

Here is a link to the documentation for that function...

Equations - Torque Wiki

torque-bhp.com

Here is a possible equation to try..

Fan2 Lookup(Bit(A:7)::0='OFF':1='ON')

Fan1 Lookup(Bit(A:6)::0='OFF':1='ON')

Thank you for your help, I did actually try that equation before posting my question. I figured I'd try it. My guess did not work, I tried a:1. What is the significance of the 6 or 7?

I am still waiting to try your equation as the engine has to cool down. I will reply with the results.

 

[mrobins20]

Thanks for the links; was wrestling with the "&" operator. In that case, could I rewrite Fan1 as Lookup((A&64)/64::0='Off':1='On')?

Great question! Thanks for all your help. Hopefully I can test it later tonight!

 

[TJBaker57]

Thanks for the links; was wrestling with the "&" operator. In that case, could I rewrite Fan1 as Lookup((A&64)/64::0='Off':1='On')?

That looks correct.

 

[TJBaker57]

What is the significance of the 6 or 7?

The 6 and 7 here refer to the bit you are requesting with the function "BIT()" . Torque converts the hexadecimal byte value(s) it receives to decimal. If there is just one byte it is converted to decimal and represented in the equation as the token "A". If there is a second byte in the response from PCM or ECM or whatever that will also be converted to decimal and represented in the equation as the token "B" and so on down the line.


A single byte is comprised of 8 bits numbered from 0 to 7, right to left when viewed as a binary value. Each bit is either a zero or a one. If it's a zero it is considered "low" and if 1 it is considered "high". Assuming each bit was high the values for each would be...

Bit 0 = 1
Bit 1 = 2
Bit 2 = 4
Bit 3 = 8
Bit 4 = 16
Bit 5 = 32
Bit 6 = 64
Bit 7 = 128


Looking at your original equation although I was not yet familiar with the usage of the ampersand as seen I did recongnize the values of 128 as bit 7 and 64 as bit 6.

Edit: I am going to add a screenshot from Torque Pro PID editor where you can see all the aforementioned hex, decimal, and binary representations of the response to a PID request. This will only be seen when you are actively connected to a vehicle where the appropriate module can respond.

 

[mrobins20]

The 6 and 7 here refer to the bit you are requesting with the function "BIT()" . Torque converts the hexadecimal byte value(s) it receives to decimal. If there is just one byte it is converted to decimal and represented in the equation as the token "A". If there is a second byte in the response from PCM or ECM or whatever that will also be converted to decimal and represented in the equation as the token "B" and so on down the line.


A single byte is comprised of 8 bits numbered from 0 to 7, right to left when viewed as a binary value. Each bit is either a zero or a one. If it's a zero it is considered "low" and if 1 it is considered "high". Assum8ng each bit was high the values for each would be...

Bit 0 = 1
Bit 1 = 2
Bit 2 = 4
Bit 3 = 8
Bit 4 = 16
Bit 5 = 32
Bit 6 = 64
Bit 7 = 128


Looking at your original equation although I was not yet familiar with the usage of the ampersand as seen I did recongnize the values of 128 as bit 7 and 64 as bit 6.

Thank you for your reply and the explanation it is very helpful. Appreciate it!!

 

[TJBaker57]

figured I'd try it. My guess did not work, I tried a:1

Having seen there are 8 bits in a byte, and each could be used to report a status of some switch or relay or what have you, you can see that a single PID number could hold 8 different items of interest. I believe that for the P10 PCM in my TrailBlazer PID 1100, bit 1 holds a status for the A/C. Also, these PIDs are often different from platform to platform. In my 2002 TrailBlazer PID 1100 bit 7 is not for a fan but for the current state of the Cruise Control, active or inactive.

 

[mrobins20]

Having seen there are 8 bits in a byte, and each could be used to report a status of some switch or relay or what have you, you can see that a single PID number could hold 8 different items of interest. I believe that for the P10 PCM in my TrailBlazer PID 1100, bit 1 holds a status for the A/C. Also, these PIDs are often different from platform to platform. In my 2002 TrailBlazer PID 1100 bit 7 is not for a fan but for the current state of the Cruise Control, active or inactive.

Hi, I just tried Bit 6 & 7 and they are not working properly. I'll try using different bits and report back. My LS swap uses a 2002 Firebird/Camaro ECM so maybe I can find some information according to that.

Regards,
Mike

 

[azswiss]

Did the 2002 Firebird/Camaro have electric fans? If not, then the ECM would likely not have a provision for commanding fan operation.

 

[mrobins20]

Did the 2002 Firebird/Camaro have electric fans? If not, then the ECM would likely not have a provision for commanding fan operation.

Hi, yes it did. Going to go out and play with it now lol.

 

[TJBaker57]

Hi, I just tried Bit 6 & 7 and they are not working properly. I'll try using different bits and report back. My LS swap uses a 2002 Firebird/Camaro ECM so maybe I can find some information according to that.

Regards,
Mike

Let us back up a bit, no pun intended of course.

You had said it was working previously but only returnwd a zero or a one. All we have done is substitute text for the numerical values. Is it conceivable it was in fact not working before?

 

[TJBaker57]

Hi,

I was hoping someone could help me with an equation, math is not my strong suit. I am using the PID's below to see if my fans are running. The equation works but only gives me a 0 or 1 result. Is there a way for it to give me a response of On or Off?

Fan-1 status -F8	Fan1 V8	221100​	(A&64)/64	0​	1​	Bit	Auto
Fan-2 status -F8	Fan2 V8	221100​	(A&128)/128	0​	1​	Bit	Auto

Regards,
Mike

Traced these PIDs back to what I believe is the source, post #6 here...

Has anyone used the Torque android app?

www.firebirdnation.com

The author mentions some PIDs are for the 96/97 model years. Further says some will work and some will not.

In my experience it takes a good deal of time and study to deduce what is what in PIDs not documented by others for the particular ECM or PCM for that particular model year. These PIDs commonly do not remain unchanged across different ECM/PCM or vehicle series.

The question then becomes how far does the researcher want to go?

I have spent an absolutely stupid amount of time doing these things and have learned much along the way that would cut down the wasted time to a minimum.

In this instance the first thing I would establish would be what are the PIDs available from this particular ECM/PCM. To do this I use a free serial terminal app and just ask the PCM/ECM for each candidate PID sequentially through the range I have seen as most common for bit-mapped PIDs from a GM ECM/PCM. So I would scan the range of 0x1100 to say 0x1140. That would be 64 possibilities. Sounds like a lot of work and it would be if not for the use of macros. At a rate of 2 per second the 64 PIDs I would scan would take less than a minutes execution.

Anybody interested?

 

[azswiss]

Definitely. I am especially interested in exploring macros. What do you suggest?

 

[TJBaker57]

Definitely. I am especially interested in exploring macros. What do you suggest?

Anyone who has read through this thread will surely not be surprised that I have a spreadsheet or two for the purpose of scanning for PIDs.

Also mentioned in the thread somewhere is likely my recommendation of this app for the terminal of choice, especially since my spreadsheet(s) are built for the logfiles of the app.

Serial Bluetooth Terminal - Apps on Google Play

Terminal for serial devices connected with Bluetooth Classic / LE

play.google.com

In general, I am readying a Google spreadsheet that I use which given a starting value for PID generates a column which can be copied and pasted into the Serial Bluetooth Terminal app as a macro to be executed on your vehicles PCM, ECM, TCM, BCM or whatever.

The Serial Bluetooth Terminal app can save a logfile of the session. That logfile is simple text that can be selected, copied, and pasted into another tab on the same Google spreadsheet, and that tab will filter out the chaff and give a listing of the PIDs which the vehicle supports.

This process can not identify what data is being reported by each PID, it merely returns a list of PIDs available from the range that was scanned and the number of bytes returned by each PID.

I have also developed in a spreadsheet the ability to create the text of a .csv file in a format that can be imported by Torque Pro. Since at that stage the data each PID returns has not been idetified the equation will simply be either "A" or "(A<8)+B", the decimal equivalent of the modules response for further examination in Torque Pro. This I have not yet assembled in the one Google Spreadsheet mentioned, but it is currently in use in another spreadsheet and I just need to find it and copy the required functions over to the spreadsheet I am preparing as a one-stop solution for PID scanning.

Here are the beginnings, the scan generator, and the start of the logfile processing...





Here is a link to what I am working on. Currently shared as view only.

GMTN_PID+DTC_Scanning

docs.google.com

 

[mrobins20]

Let us back up a bit, no pun intended of course.

You had said it was working previously but only returnwd a zero or a one. All we have done is substitute text for the numerical values. Is it conceivable it was in fact not working before?

Hi, I am finding that perhaps my app is corrupted? Some items that were there are no longer there, others are there and not working. I am in the middle of reloading the PID spreadsheet I collected from the great minds out there but am having trouble even importing that! I'll return when I get it sorted out... may be time for a new tablet

 

[TJBaker57]

Hi, I am finding that perhaps my app is corrupted? Some items that were there are no longer there, others are there and not working. I am in the middle of reloading the PID spreadsheet I collected from the great minds out there but am having trouble even importing that! I'll return when I get it sorted out... may be time for a new tablet

Well I was about to post that I have no desktop PC or tablet and do everything on a phone. As such I can only imagine what the spreadsheet might look like on a tablet or desktop PC. The font may seem huge because I am 64 with questionable vision and working on a phone! And any coloring may also look gawdy as well.