How To Use PICO #2204A & HANTEK #1008C Oscilloscopes

mrrsm

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Can you Diagnose a Crank-No Start on a 1999 GM or GMC V-8 Truck using a Pin Point Probe Test Light and a DMM? Sure. Maybe ... OR... You could watch what THIS Dude from "The Final Stop Auto Tech" YouTube Channel is up to with what he does with the Oscilloscope Feature of his Autel Diagnostic Tablet to make THIS Ground-2-Ground Diagnosis and Repair with his "O" Scope a SHORT & SWEET One:


Here is the same Dude working on a problem with 'Fresh Engine Swap of a 6L Engine" into a 2006 Trailblazer using THREE Signal Inputs into his "O" Scope to Dope Out a SERIOUS Timing Issue:


And HERE is a Supporting Video from Advanced Level Auto using a SIMILAR Approach to achieve a SIMILAR Diagnostic Result on a SIMILAR Vehicle:


And a "Shade Tree Kid Mechanic" with GOOD Diagnostic Instincts who SORTS IT OUT:

 
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mrrsm

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And Now for some Very Inexpensive and Very Cool Oscilloscope Accessories from ROTKEE that are Damned Near MUST HAVES for things like Pressure Pulse Sensing Diagnostics!!!

Guys... THIS is the Kind of STUFF that is normally WAY TOO EXPENSIVE to Find and Buy... So Visit the ROTKEE Link mentioned in this Video if you want to expand upon your "O"Scope Diagnostic Possibilities ...without Going Broke:


NOTE:
In order to make it E-Z-R for anyone interested in purchasing any of the "O "Scope Sensors mentioned in the above Video, I prepared "My ROTKEE Wish List" linked below as a PDF that shows the Images of all these Items by their Names and Prices and (because the Site is Multi-Lingual) by clicking on ANY or ALL of what you might want to buy...they are Hyper-Linked in English back to the Main ROTKEE Home Page.

Also... Drop in at the On-Line ROTKEE Wave Form Library then View & Download a mixture of Known Good and Known Bad Wave Forms... For Knowledge, For Practice and For Comparison against whatever YOUR Troubled Investigatory Wave Forms happen to look like:

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This Place has Great Value to any Automotive Diagnostician using ANY Make or Model of Oscilloscope... Start with observing THESE (92) Chevrolet Wave Forms... Download Them ...and... USE THEM:


Then... REALLY Check Out ALL of The YouTube Videos within this Search String: "Automotive Oscilloscope"... Every Single Chance You GET!


I should have covered this Topic a long time ago, but since. "There Is No Time Like The Present..." Here Goes:

Whenever using the Needle Probes with the 4mm Female Banana Pin Lead attachments, follow the Technique being used by "Diagnose Dan" in THESE Images to avoid damaging the Circuit Wire, The Circuit Wire Insulation OR the Soft, "Gummy" Weatherpack Silicone Seals:

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mrrsm

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Can you use an Oscilloscope to "Verify a Bogus Name Brand Spark Plug"...?

Oh Yeah...

 

mrrsm

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Let's take a moment to *Down-Shift Gears* and take a look at some of the LEAST Expensive Oscilloscopes worth knowing about for The Curious, The Novice and The "O" Scope Newbeez who might want to experiment with one of the Single Channel, Modestly Featured Oscilloscopes that are also Very Reasonably Priced as an Introductory Familiarization Device:

No Offense Intended here...But I DO Need To Warn You... Once you Get Your Feet Wet with making Simple Wave Form Diagnostics:

"THERE'S NO GOING BACK... TO THE RISK OF BECOMING ... A PARTS-CHANGING-HACK"




Disclaimer:

I Do NOT Own or Use any of these Single or Dual Channel Hand-Held Oscilloscopes and I Do NOT Sponsor either the eBay Sellers or the Manufacturers of these Inexpensive Oscilloscopes.

CAVEAT EMPTOR... Buyer Beware:

While purchasing simple "O" scope Systems like these, The New Users should know that while they are NOT designated for use with Automotive Diagnostics... they WILL sense the Wave Forms being investigated during Automotive Diagnoses when they are Set Up Correctly.

Thus it follows on that if New Owners-Users desire to measure High Voltage Modules and Components such as Coil Over Plugs (COP) Coils and EFIs or Solenoids, care must be taken to always install a Hantek 20:1 High Voltage BNC Connector Attenuators in line with any Leads and Probes in order to protect the Oscilloscope from High Voltage DAMAGE. The Hantek 20:1 BNC Connector Attenuators are available on Amazon for around $10.00 to $12.00 + S&H.
 

mrrsm

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I never stop looking for ROTVs (Relevant Oscilloscope Training Videos) but sometimes ...it surprises even ME for what is available to watch on YouTube. The latest stuff concerns dropping in on Joe's Auto Electric YT Channel and ending getting Two Very COOL "O" Scope Sensors that should *Spark* Up some interest if you are just now getting into either Basic Oscilloscope Diagnostics or trying to do some more esoteric Sound and Vibration Diagnostics of seemingly intractable Noisy Suspension Issues.

I'll let HIM describe how they are applied and I'll show you the two that I just got that are SO FRIGGIN' KOOL...and for not too much Moolah, either...(Visit the JAE Store below) :


(1) Magnetic Vibration Sensor (Use in 1-4 Units for "O" Scope Isolation of Suspension Issues)

(2) Rectangular Secondary Ignition Wave Form Sensor (Use with Clear Double Sided Tape)


JOESAUTOELECTRICSENSORS1.jpgJOESAUTOELECTRICSENSORS2.jpg
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And here are Three "Diagnostician "O" Scope Karts" being Unveiled BY Three Serious Power Users:



 
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mrrsm

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It is possible to perform Non-Invasive, Sub-System Suspension Noise Diagnostics in the following manner:

Tools:

Windows Laptop Computer using Windows OS
Inexpensive PICO-Scope Two Channel Model # 2204A Oscilloscope
FREE PICO-Scope Automotive Diagnostics Software (Version 6 is preferable)
Download for FREE via www.picoscope.com
Joe's Auto Electric Magnetic Noise Pick-Up Sensors
Joe's Auto Electric Magnetic Lead Supports-Line Holders

Methods:

Attach the Magnetic Pick-Ups to the opposing Wheels or Suspension Sub-Components
Attach and isolate the Sensor Leads via the Magnetic Holders back to the PICO Equipment inside the Cab of the Vehicle all set up and resting upon the Passenger Seat.
Run the PICO-Scope Automotive SW and Set the Voltage to 1-2 Volts DC (Vertical Axis) and Set the Time Base to 10 Second Graticules (Horizontal Axis).

Expected Findings:

In the two following examples, the *Problem Wheel* was instantly identified by the dramatic and obvious increase in the Harmonic Amplitude of the Noise as the Vehicle was first making a Left Turn that showed up as a Gradual Increase in the Amplitude of the Left Wheel Noise (Blue Trace) during the Left Turn. The Red Trace is coming from the Right Wheel with the Sensor placed in the mirror position to the Left Wheel.

Then, the Test Driver made sharp Zig-Zags on the Highway at speed with the results of having the Blue Trace remain instantly Elevated with a slight break in between the two Vertical Trace Lines close together as the Steering shifted sharply from Left to Right. This Wave Form is distinctive as indicating that the Left Wheel was suffering from a Bad Wheel Bearing.

The sequenced images below emphasize the advantages of being able to Isolate the Noise in a Dynamic Driving situation... without ever having to Touch Your Tools:

DONTGUESSTEST2.jpgDONTGUESSTEST3.jpgDONTGUESSTEST4.jpgDONTGUESSTEST4A.jpgDONTGUESSTEST5.jpgDONTGUESSTEST6.jpgDONTGUESSTEST7.jpgDONTGUESSTEST8.jpgDONTGUESSTEST9.jpgDONTGUESSTEST10.jpgDONTGUESSTEST11.jpgDONTGUESSTEST11A.jpgDONTGUESSTEST12.jpgDONTGUESSTEST14.jpgDONTGUESSTEST15.jpgDONTGUESSTEST16.jpgDONTGUESSTEST18.jpgDONTGUESSTEST19.jpg
 

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mrrsm

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*Amplifying* (Pun Intended here) upon the information covered in Post #85 & #86... I thought I would array TWO "Joe's Auto Electric" Magnetically Held Vibration Sensors along the Back-Plane of my Ceramic Painted Oven Deck along with a few of his VERY Handy -2 - Have Neodymium Magnetic Oscilloscope Leads Holders that would be necessary to array them on say... under the Steel Frame-Chassis Sections or Stuck to the Brake Assembly Dust Plates on the backs of any of the Four Wheels... or underneath the Suspension, Engine or Transmission Mounts Steel Brackets... or Wherever You NAME IT.

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Getting this Inexpensive Support Hardware and Using these Tactics for deployment of them on or under your vehicle(s) is all very necessary *IF* you intend upon making ANY serious efforts at conducting Automotive Vibration Analysis in ANY of the Three Degrees of Freedom of Motion in The "X"... The "Y" ...or The "Z" Vectors (or any combinations in between) that Automotive Components can create... simply by using YOUR Oscilloscope for such Diagnostics:

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Beyond post-inspection observations of clearly Broken Components, I don't care HOW sensitive and subtle you MIGHT think that your "Inner Ear gauge & Meter" or your "Seat-Of-The-Pants" Vibration Detection Apparatus might be... I defy ANYONE to explain precisely Which Components (or any combinations thereof) is (are) either causing or contributing to the creation of Mysterious, often Impossible to Locate Vibrations and the Strange Noises they can generate... with any True Degree of Accuracy.

All that said... if you possess either a One, Two, Four or Eight Channel Oscilloscope and THIS Gear... then you can isolate certain suspect components in their Proper X,Y & Z Vectors of Motion... and THEN your Oscilloscope Screen WILL reveal whatever activity is actually taking place.

Now, while I honestly don't believe that it is necessary to take the MIT Mechanical Engineering Course shown in this Linked Video to understand the basics of all this stuff... I suspect that if you have the wherewithal to be reading THIS Topic right now... then you have already Drunk The "O" Scope Kool-Aid by now and are neither afraid to TRY TO DO NEW THINGS, nor afraid of LEARNING HOW TO DO NEW THINGS... and You've already done so ...time and again!.

Nonetheless... Please... Give this Low-Key (BUT Very COOL) MIT Professor half-a-chance at around 34 Minute into his Lecture and you'll be surprised at just how much of what he describes to his students ....is already nested within your Mechanic's Mental Wheelhouse of Understanding:

MIT Mechanical Engineering Course on Vibration:
Covering A Single Degree of Freedom


Vibration Isolation:


Also... Attached below is another "On Topic" White Paper worth digesting that provides even more insights into Vibration Diagnostics and Analysis:

In the end... Even if you NEVER delve any deeper into this subject than simply placing your Oscilloscope Vibration Sensors 'hither and yon" ... BUT... carefully observe WHERE and observe WHICH VECTOR(S) (X.Y,Z) they wind up being properly situated (pointed) at upon or near to each Suspect Component ....then your Oscilloscope WILL display them as Amplitude vs. Frequency Over Time and THEN you will EASILY figure out the problem from watching "ALL THOSE SQUIGGLES" on your Screen...WHAT Component(s)n are causing the Problems and showing WHEN they started to FAIL (at Certain RPM... During Certain Braking Events... in Certain Gears, Etc.)

THIS Process is a MUCH better approach than merely GUESSING and THEN wind up Buying Suspension Parts, Etc... and LATER finding out that what You THOUGHT were the *Problem Parts* or components turned out NOT to be what was Causing all that RACKET and all those Premature Parts Failures. :>)
 

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mrrsm

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I'm always looking for the Ways & Means to invite Folks interested in becoming Good Diagnostic Technicians using Decent Bi-Directional Scan Tools to Join In... and get up close and personal with the "EFFECTS" of problem Engines...and then following on with using the Oscilloscopes and/or Sensitive Digital Graphing Multi-Meters to Dial in on the "CAUSES" versus just reflexively "Throwing Repair Spaghetti Against The Wall ...and just Hoping That Something Will STICK..."

In THIS Video...We get introduced to a Dude who should be YOUR Favorite Kind of Technician... Somebody who "HAS the "GEAR" ...WITHOUT The "Fear"...of FAILURE... that can come along with being intimidated by such seemingly too sophisticated Instrumentation. So HIS approach is to USE THE POWER OF THE ON-SCREEN VISUALIZATIONS ...and just SEE The Problem for What It IS.

The Customer Complaint Work Order Data:

NISSANVERSAMISFIREWORKORDER.jpg

The Average Dude with just a DMM and a "Surface" Lighted Probe will NEVER improve his Diagnostic Skill Set because he will Never be able to SEE enough DETAIL to Know what the Actual Problem Really IS ...but by the same token...The Average Mechanic with even a modicum of patience and interest CAN become a Competent Diagnostician once he KNOWS WHAT HE IS LOOKING FOR.

This Man Demonstrates doing just THAT on a Mid-2000 Nissan Versa sporting a Bad Misfire on Cylinder #3 using the Latest FREE PICO-Scope Version 7 Software (I prefer Version 6) and employing TWO Digital Oscilloscope Input Signals using a Paddle Style Ignition Coil Sensor picking up Secondary Ignition Coil Readings placed over the #3 Coil on a Four Cylinder Engine on Channel 1 with an In-Series 20:1 Voltage BNC Attenuator attached in line to prevent High Voltage (KV) from Damaging his Equipment...AND...while stringing a VERY LONG Channel 2 Lead back to the Tail Pipe to pick up the Engine Exhaust Pulses using a "First Look" Probe inserted therein.

So... Download, Save and Review THIS Video if you are sitting on the fence about getting a Basic, Inexpensive Oscilloscope (Well Documented by Price and Features listed at the Beginning of this Thread)...but have any doubts left about WHY You would want to try this *Stuff* Out.

Stop... Look... and Listen... to his Explanations as he Breaks Down of the Coil Over Plug Wave Form's appearances between What a Known Good Wave Form Looks Like versus What a Bad Wave Form on the #3 Cylinder Looks Like that he can CLEARLY see on his Laptop Screen via the Features of the PICO-Scope Version 7 Software. AND SO...WILL...YOU.

Take note of just how MUCH DETAIL is being captured for later ZOOMED ANALYSIS that tells the story of what has gone wrong ...in EXQUISITE Detail... by a Guy who just wants YOU to SEE WHAT THE PROBLEM IS... JUST BY LOOKING AT THE PICTURES AND COMPARING ADJACENT CYLINDER ACTIVITIES ON SCREEN:


Secondary Ignition Trivia:

 
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mrrsm

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Paul “Scanner” Danner’s “No Spark” Diagnostics Testing Videos answer the Question of:

“Can I use an Incandescent Probe Light to investigate a “No Spark – No Start” condition like on a conventional Ignition System...on any COP (Coil Over Plug) System?”

“No. Nope… You Can’t… You’re Gonna Need A ‘SCOPE!”

Here are the Live Premium Pal “Scanner” Danner Training Sessions that EXPLAIN WHY This is True:

Part 1:

Part 2:

Recommendation on HOW to Learn MORE in concert with his FREE Premium YT Training Videos?

Visit THIS Link…

https://gmtnation.com/forums/thread...r-engine-performance-diagnostics-bible.23489/

If YOU need ANY Other CONVINCING that in order to become a Decent Automotive Diagnostician instead of remaining an “Accidental Fixer via Parts Changing…” Download, Save and Re-Watch THESE Two Videos for ALL of the Guidance in the Right Directions on this matter…. There is Just So Much To Learn Here !!!
 

mrrsm

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I'm always looking for New Visual Training input on the subject of encouraging the Use of ALL variations of Oscilloscopes for Automotive Diagnostics. Recently... while trying to assist another GMT Nation Member... I found TWO such Videos that work 'Hand In Glove' to explain the Primary and Secondary Ignition Wave Form Analysis of a Coil Over Plug system in order to discover the "WHY" that is behind the incidence over Ten Years that a GMT360 Vehicle should suddenly "Die At Speed" due to ... "WHAT?"

In this instance, it was because The PCM, The COPS and The EFIs are all served by the Single, Failed Fuse #28 that SUDDENLY BURNED OUT... Perhaps even as a Protective Reaction from the PCM to a DEAD SHORT INSIDE OF ONE COP.... These Videos explain everything you need to know and understand... in Superb and Exquisite Details:

"WHY Does a Failing EFI Cause a FAILED COP...to DEAD SHORT and Shut Down The Engine?"

From Paul "Scanner" Danner Teaching a Wave Form Class at Rosedale College:


From Duane...of the "RealFixesRealFast" Youtube Automotive Training Channel:


Wanna Learn a LOT MORE about How to View and Interpret Automotive Wave Forms? Well... Okay then... Download BOTH of these Videos and spend some time Watching... Listening... and Learning The Ropes of Automotive Wave Form Analysis from Two of some of the BEST Automotive Instructors on The Internet!

PS...

This may seem a bit over done...but since Duane from "RealFixesRealFast" was explaining the relevance of understanding "Ohm's Law" in relation to the Ignition Components involved in the Ignition Circuit... Viewing and Downloading this 1943 U.S. Navy WW2 Era Electronics Training Film on the subject of "Ohm's Law" bears your observation and understanding... including whenever using Oscilloscopes in Automotive Diagnostics:


Also... If we concentrate our efforts at learning what JUST ONE WAVE FORM Looks Like...We can get lost in the weeds over the fact that ordinarily EACH Wave Form bears its own Wave Form Characteristics unique to either the Different Modules or its Related Components (such as a COP AND its Companion Spark Plug). "Scanner-Danner" demonstrates How To Analyze a Fuel Injector Wave Form in this last Video. Make some mental notes of The Differences you will see between a COP Wave Form shown in his prior Video and the EFI Wave Forms he demonstrates below:


With a little practice using your OWN Oscilloscope on your personal vehicles.... you can use the High and Low Amp Clamp and other Oscilloscope Induction Sensing Tools to View your Engine Components in action during Idle and Snap Throttle Events and Record, Save and View them with further study.

Making Comparisons between how each Cylinder behaves depending upon their related Module Performances will allow you to KNOW what the Good Wave Forms vs. the Bad Wave Forms should look like....and you won't need to "Turn Wrenches" to do so!
 
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mrrsm

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And..THIS is "The BIG One"... *The Silver Tuna* of Secondary Wave Form Diagnosis Training that is almost a Decade Old... done at a PAY FOR ATTENDANCE CLASS that covers almost Two and One Half Hours of Instruction... and that probably allowed the Folks who showed up and paid close attention to FINALLY EARN BUCKETS OF MONEY...at the Shops where they already HAD Oscilloscopes available (Built-In) to many of their Shop Owned Snap-On Modis and other Higher End Scan Tool Systems... BUT THEY NEVER, EVER TRIED TO USE THEM!!!

THIS Guy... Jim Morton... Puts on a Yeoman's or Journeyman's College Course during this amazing Class on How To Interpret Ignition Wave Forms...and if YOU follow along and have not as yet obtained your OWN Inexpensive Oscilloscope for improving your ability to externally Diagnose Drive-ability and Engine Malfunction Problems... then you WILL want to GET ONE ASAP... as soon as you get THIS set of Instructions well seated inside of your Mechanics' Minds. Even if you don't save ANY other Instructional Videos previously mentioned in this expansive Thread on Oscilloscopes ...Please... By All Means... DOWNLOAD AND SAVE THIS ONE!

 

mrrsm

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While "Lurking On eBay"...I recently lucked into finding TWO Bargains in support of my Oscilloscope(s) and in particular...these are complimentary for the Snap-On Professional Grade Scan Tools:

For Charging the Unique Batteries for the Snap-On Vantage Pro Diagnostic Tool ($88.00):

SNAPONBATCHARGER1.jpgSNAPONBATCHARGER2.jpg
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For Measuring HIGH AMPERAGE in Automotive Diagnostics for the Snap-On Modis and Vantage Pro Scan Tools ($85.00 vs. the usual $300.00 Cost)

SNAPONHIAMPCLAMP1.jpgSNAPONHIAMPCLAMP2.jpgSNAPONHIAMPCLAMP4.jpgSNAPONHIAMPCLAMP5.jpg

And...Since the idea here is that for Ordinary High Amperage Circuits, such as when engaging the Ignition ON and using the Starter Motor for the purpose of Conducting a Relative Compression Test... (with the FUEL or IGNITION Disabled) THIS 400 Amp Clamp is PERFECT because of the Extra Long Cord and having the Mated 4mm Dual Banana Plug for attaching it to an Oscilloscope (Snap-On Modis, Verus, Vantage Pro...etc.) and then taking a Current Reading from around either the Positive or Negative Battery Cable... AFTER... Turning on the 9 Volt DC Battery Powered Clamp and ZERO-ing Out the Tool via Adjusting the Upper Right Dial:

This is a similar model Snap-On High-Amp Clamp being used in a British Repair Shop in this very appropriate "Universal Relative Compression" Test Demonstration:


And...to perform this Diagnostic WITHOUT a High Amp Clamp...with a High End Snap-On Scan Tool...This Alternative Method WILL Work:


And Finally... Some Sound Classroom White Board Theory on this Topic:

Look for an EXCELLENT Relative Compression Wave Form captured from a 2005 Colorado 5 Cylinder 3.5L Atlas Motor at around 21:00 Minutes into this Video and immediately after that is an image of a 2007 Cadillac STS 3.6L Engine suffering with Single Bank Timing Chain Issues showing up CLEARLY on this initial, Non-Invasive Test as a BAD WAVE FORM.



As a Post Script... @m.mcmillen has a LOT of experience with performing the very involved, PITA Timing Chain R&Rs on these 3.6L Engines.
 
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mrrsm

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This Diagnostic Series should be the Object Lesson required for anyone intent upon becoming a TRUE Diagnostician. But... before I ask you to FOCUS ON THE OSCILLOSCOPE SCREENS… I must “Cut To The Chase” and do these Reveals UP FRONT:

(1) You CANNOT Diagnose Modern Automotive Systems without having access to the Proper Diagnostic Tools and Gear.

(2) You CANNOT Diagnose Modern Automotive Systems by COMPLETELY RELYING on Tools.

(3) You CANNOT Diagnose Modern Automotive Systems by ABANDONING LOGIC AND COMMON SENSE.

(4) You CANNOT Diagnose Modern Automotive Systems WITHOUT KNOWING HOW THEY WORK.

(5) You CANNOT Repair Modern Automotive Systems... by simply THROWING PARTS AT THEM.

(6) You CANNOT Diagnose & Repair Modern Automotive Systems if you DON’T SEE THE OBVIOUS SIGNS OF PROBLEMS OR SUFFER FROM OBVIOUS FAILURES OF IMAGINATION.

The Issues:

The Owner purchased his 2007 Cadillac Escalade at an Auction House and found Intermittent ABS Issues along with CAN Bus Issues. He took it to a Dealership and opened his wallet eventually to obtain an enormous number of Modules and Components with the idea of simply replacing parts hither and yon to no ultimate successful effect.

Finally he decided to take the Escalade on a Five Hour Drive from New York City out to “Crazy Ivan” at The Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics Shop in Rural Pennsylvania, The Vehicle broke down en route and the Owner had to pay for the Truck to be towed the rest of the way to PHAD.

The Tools:

In addition to learning and appreciating the “Universal Step By Steps” requisite in ALL Proper Diagnostician approaches… Ivan employed the following Basic & High End Diagnostic Gear:

(1) A PICO-Scope Pro Version (4XXX Series) Automotive Oscilloscope (Leads and Needle Probes).

(2) Laptop Computer with FREE PICO-Scope Ver. 7 Automotive Software Suite.

(3) A High End Bi-Directional Diagnostic Scan Tool.

(4) Two Different DMMs with AMP Clamp to measure CAN-Bus Ohms (2 X 120 Ohm Resistors)

(5) Lighted Pin Probe.

(6) ALLDATA Access with 2007 Cadillac Escalade Circuitry Print Outs.

(7) A Bright Head Band Flashlight.

(8) A Note Pad, A Pen, and a Common Sense DIAGNOSTIC PLAN.

(9) A DLC “BOB” (Break Out Box).

The Ultimate Solution to The Problem:

After following an Organized, Step By Step approach, eventually Ivan discovered that the High Speed CAN Bus was being interrupted from the Normal Ohms level at the Pin 6 and Pin 14 o the DLC Reading which should --always-- be at 60 Ohms… (+) or (-) a Few Ohms... only to be intermittently reading 120+ Ohms due to: The Transmission Harness Wiring rubbing through on the Passenger Side of the 4L60E Transmission ...SHORTING OUT THE HIGH SPEED CAN BUS ON CAN-LOW BEING PULLED DOWN.

Part 0: Preliminary Look at the 2007 Cadillac Escalade CAN Issues


Part 1: 2007 Cadillac Escalade on a CAN-Bus Escapade


Part 2: 2007 Cadillac Escalade on a CAN-Bus Escapade

 
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mrrsm

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I've Got A Lil' Gimmick ...coming here in about a week or so that I'll Demo here for those among us who have either NOT had the chance lately to either Use or Practice with their Oscilloscopes and Supporting Probes & Gear... On Mysteriously Broken Cars & Trucks... But would LIKE to do so,,, without leaving their Couches on a Rainy Day..

But... In the mean time... I just LOVE finding New Sources, New Trainers and New Training Situations that will allow ANYBODY interested enough to want to Learn the Important Secrets of DIAGNOSING STUFF to "Make Their Bones" and become more sound and comfortable with their Better Technical Angels that ALL Modern Diagnosticians KNOW... and EVERYBODY ELSE... Doesn't:


And from Paul "Scanner" Danner... Old School Practice and Repetition ...improves your Confidence and Skill Set with WAVE FORM RECOGNITION THAT VARIES WITH COMPONENTS AND THEIR VARIOUS DIFFERENT EXPECTED APPEARANCES ...EITHER AS "Known GOOD" vs. "Known BAD" Wave Form Patterns.

Knowing the DIFFERENCES between these two matters will improve your ability to narrow down the "Scope" (Pun Intended) of your Diagnostic Steps and Speed up the time it takes to figure out WTF to do next; either with further Diagnostics or focused Repair Actions:


 
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mrrsm

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Ever hear of "Dave DeCourcey".... ? Probably not... Unless you have been struggling as a Professional Auto Mechanic in Diagnosing Automotive Misfire Events and attended any of his Three Hour Training Sessions.

THIS particular one is worth saving because he has since passed on... and thankfully, some of his instructions and guidance survive as Diagnostician's Treasure on these lengthy YouTube Videos...

RIP David "Dave" DeCourcey ... God and His Angels... Guard You.

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What is "Spot On" concerning THIS Thread is mentioned by him almost in passing in his Boston Accent Manner of Speaking at around 18-25 Minutes along into this Video where he describes speaking with "Professionals" in the various Auto Repair Businesses he visited to ostensibly perform Diagnostic Miracles for them and Rescue Impossibly Broken Cars in his unique way.

To his surprise, he often found out that many of these Pro Shops had Snap-On Modis and other High Quality Diagnostic Tools fitted with up to Four Channel Oscilloscopes... But. MOST of them will have NEVER USED THEIR LAB-SCOPES.

Listen in below and sense how exasperating this probably was for him... because many of You have already figured out that "The Keys to The Kingdom of Diagnosing and Solving Misfires" ...begins and ends with SEEING what is actually taking place... as they are being displayed on an Oscilloscope Screen with Multiple Sensors via Multiple Channels:

 
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mrrsm

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Those of us who follow the Threads and Ideas of other Members can easily identify when they encounter what seems like an Impossible To Solve Diagnostic Challenge. We HATE when that happens. Such a Frustrating Example will be easy to recall from @Mooseman 's Epic Thread on having "A Very Slight Miss at Idle" occurring as an Occasional *Fish-Bite* Misfire.

https://gmtnation.com/forums/threads/very-slight-miss-at-idle.19196/

At First Blush, we all might wonder..."Is it a Crankshaft Position Sensor?" Maybe... Maybe NOT... Especially if we cannot actually SEE the CKP Dynamics and Behavior in Action and then measure its performance VISUALLY over and over again.

It is important to remember that any Significant Changes in either the Frequency or the Amplitude of the A/C Signals being Generated by the CKP can misinform the PCM as to WHEN to activate BOTH the EFI Fuel Spray AND WHEN to Fire the Ignition Spark! (Timing...is EVERYTHING)

When viewed from the Diagnostic angle of using an Oscilloscope, another possible source for the problem can be seen in the Wavy A/C Sine Wave showing up on the "O" Scope screen of the CKP Sensor...Best Viewed by Back-Probing the Signal Wire of the CKP on the Channel (1) "O" Scope Position on the Scope Back-Plane.

Likewise, it follows on to use a "Zeroed" Low Amp Clamp (With a FRESH 9 Volt DC Battery installed) around the Signal Wire of the COP Harness being fed into the Channel (2) "O" Scope Position to capture the Spark Events of the Suspect Cylinder. This will provide a useful "SYNC POINT" for making a behavior comparisons of these two Suspect Wave Forms clearly showing up on the "O" Scope Screen:

PicoScopeCamCrank-1.jpg
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Please...Turn Down The Sound... and just WATCH what is happening... You will be able to understand what is being explained


What we should be looking for is a Wavy Sine Wave ...that just might indicate the Lowest Point in that Wave Peaks and Troughs being lined up with the COP Signal Trace Wave Form when they appear on screen Together... Most prominently AT IDLE.

This is because as soon as the Naturally Balanced Conditions for Inline Six Cylinder Engines are disturbed by the Demand of MORE TORQUE AND POWER... those induced physical forces change the conditions that only prevail with occasional Misfires when the Motor is essentially "Resting at Low RPM".

If the A/C Sine Wave Strength becomes WEAK...OR ILL-TIMED ...it might cause the PCM to misinterpret WHEN to Fire the Spark Plug in all circumstances, even with having Good Spark Plugs and a Good COP being present in that particularly affected Cylinder.

The issue can arise whenever the Mains Bearing are truly worn down enough on the Crankshaft Mains to allow it to Wobble About at Low RPM...and even have such varied times of occurrence due to variations in Oil Pressure and other intangibles, such as Poor Fuel Quality (Water In The Fuel), Heavy Gas-Gum Carbon Contamination around Valve Seats and Spark Plug Holes and Engine Temperature variations thrown in to make its *Fish-Bite* appearance very unpredictable.

High Mileage Engines are more likely to present with such odd events:

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PS Remember... Using an Amp Clamp to capture the Wave Form INDIRECTLY as an Induction Wave Form does NOT Require a 20:1 High Voltage Attenuator be installed ahead of the Amp Clamp Channel (1) Back-Plane BNC Position.

However... if you are picking up the High Voltage Samples from the Secondary Side of the Ignition Coil Over Plug that WILL create High KV Energy...then the 20:1 Attenuator MUST be installed on the Channel (2) BNC Port of the "O" Scope first... or you will risk Destroying your Oscilloscope. This information in well covered in earlier Thread Post Entries.
 
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mrrsm

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Since I've mentioned on previous occasions that my dominant method for successful reinforcement learning has always been VISUAL, I'm taking a leaf out of my own book by using that method here to cover a VERY unusual Diagnostic Investigation that serves our purposes for the use of Oscilloscopes to become Better Automotive Diagnosticians using "DATA DRIVEN" Solutions:

The Story:

PHADPICODEMO1.jpgPHADPICODEMO2.jpg

If you prefer just WATCHING it unfold, observe "Crazy Ivan" ...The Man From PHAD (Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics) explaining everything that follows in THIS Video:


The Vehicle and The Symptoms:

2008 Buick LaCrosse, 3.8L 6 Cylinder V-6 Engine using a Waste Spark Electronic Distributor using an EXTERNAL S/S Reluctor Wheel fitted inside of the Harmonic Balancer providing the "source" for the Analog Signal from the CKP Sensor, The Vehicle had recently been inoperative for THREE MONTHS after the Owner Fired the Parts Cannon at it in response to these "Stall-Cranks-No Start" Events. Ivan responded to help "The Victim" during a Working Road Trip on his way through Ohio as follows:

The Tools Required:

A Windows 11 Laptop Computer
A 4 Channel Professional Grade PICO-Scope
PICO (FREE) Automotive Diagnostic Suite Ver. 7


A PICO Pressure Transducer (For Live In-Cylinder Readings)
A Hantek Secondary Coil Pick Up Lead for Spark Ignition Timing
An OTC Low Amp Clamp for a Relative Compression Reading
A Large Pair of Right Angle Needle Nosed Pliers
A Typical Set of 3/8" Drive/Extension/14mm Spark Plug Socket

The Pictorial Procedures for Hooking Up The Sensors to the PICO-Scope:

PHADPICODEMO4.jpg

The In-Cylinder Pressure Transducer:

Ivan pulled One Spark Plug from an accessible Cylinder in order to insert the 14mm portion of the PICO (Black Box) Pressure Transducer which feeds back as a Piezo-Electric sensing device into the External BNC lines with a Connector attaching to the PICO-Scope Back Plane. The Signal Color for this Sensor forms a BLUE TRACE across the Laptop Screen in the Screen Image Prints that follow:

PHADPICODEMO3.jpg

The High Voltage Induction Spark Pick-Up:

This is a Simple Spring-Loaded Clamp that surrounded the Spark Plug Wire of the Removed Spark Plug and served to provide the means of TIMING the Spark Events across the Laptop Screen as a RED TRACE for cross-referencing 720 Degrees that makes up the Full Four Stroke Cycle.

NOTE:

It is always necessary to place a 20:1 Hantek High Voltage Attenuator in between the HV Sensor Lead(s) and the BNC attachment Channel Port of the PICO Scope or any other typical Automotive Oscilloscope in order to avoid damaging them:

PHADPICODEMO12.jpg
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The Low Amp Clamp:

Ivan employed an OTC Brand Low Voltage Clamp by encircling the Red B+ Power Cable at the Battery. This served to capture the inductive Amperage Reading during Engine Cranking Event which appears as a GREEN TRACE across the Laptop Screen showing the Relative Compression of all Six Cylinders during the Diagnostic Cranking Events:

PHADPICODEMO6.jpg

The Expected Signal Tracings (Colors) on the Laptop Screen:

The Three Sensor Inputs involved are arbitrarily arrayed across the Laptop Screen in the PICO-Ware Automotive Windows Application with the Low Amp Clamp for Relative Compression appearing at the Middle Screen Area in GREEN, then the Ignition Events appear in RED at the Top of the Screen in this array and finally, the Pressure Transducer Signal appears in BLUE along the Bottom of the Screen as the last trace of these three inputs...Thusly:

PHADPICODEMO7.jpg
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Interpreting What these Traces MEAN by way of WHEN Certain Events Occur during the Engine Cranking Sequence:

Last But Not Least...Here is "The Money Shot" of how these Three Sensors act in combination to prove that the Vehicle Owner had mistakenly installed the Harmonic Balancer-Reluctor WheeL 180 Degrees Out Of Phase for the Ignition (CKP) Sensor, producing the (RED) Waste Spark Events with the WRONG TIMING when compared on screen against the Relative Compression (GREEN) Trace and the Piston Position showing in (BLUE) for its location during these events.

PHADPICODEMO9.jpg
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The Results of the R&R of the Harmonic Balancer:

The Owner provided the follow up image showing the internal damage done to the Harmonic Balancer when the Steel Woodruff Key tried to penetrate the opposite side of the HB from the Rectangular Cut-Out Slot 180 Degrees Out Of Phase from where it belongs...meaning that THIS HB ...is now Completely MUNTED!

PHADPICODEMO15.jpg

The Most Important Lessons Here...

Being able to make a Rapid and Accurate Diagnostic...without Firing the Parts Cannon in situations often fraught with Mere GUESSING can only be achieved if you can actually SEE and COMPARE what would otherwise be COMPLETELY INVISIBLE TO THE NAKED EYE.

Take note of the fact that Ivan was able to Discern THE MECHANICAL CONDITION INSIDE OF THE ENGINE...NON-INVASIVELY... with no more effort involved than Hooking up the Proper Sensor Leads at their Proper Locations... and removing One Spark Plug from a convenient location and then using its position with a Known Firing Order to establish the Ignition and Timing Events during this Examination. :>)

The Man From PHAD... FTW!

PS.. THIS Freaked me RTF Out!

If you are familiar with the concept that, "Everyone is connected to Everyone Else...By Six Degrees of Separation..." (The Kevin Bacon Principle)... then you will appreciate my complete surprise that "Crazy Ivan" was doing research on a FUBAR'd GM 3100 V-6 Engine in a related Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics Video and he stopped at a Forum I last posted at back in 2011 and was then known as

--== "60dgrzbelow0" ==--

So while he was filming his Laptop Screen, he stopped and hovered over an Internet Search on THIS Post that I had contributed 15 years ago and he was perusing and quoting that dialogue out loud... and I thought,

"Hey wait a Minute Ivan... "I" wrote that reply!"

Then I remembered that scene in Star Wars on Tattooine where Luke Skywalker got knocked off of his Bantha by the Sand People and then questioned the "Old Man" who scared them away and then helped him to his feet. He asked the man, "He's supposed to be someone named "Old Ben... or Obie Wan Kenobi... Have you ever heard of him?" and then Sir Alec Guinness replied, "Well of COURSE I know him... He's ME!" ...Too Funny! :>) / <--( My OEM Light Saber...)

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mrrsm

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So... You are Driving along the Local Boulevard, perhaps right at Sunset and while lost in your relaxed reveries ...BAM!... You feel a Sudden Loss of Power ...and can see the REP Light Up on the Dashboard... WTF! ...Right?

INTERMITPROBLEMS.jpg

Well.... How would you go about trying to Diagnose this issue? You might immediately suspect an APP "Gas Pedal" Failure... or maybe the Throttle Body is acting up... or even suspect the MAF has gone sideways... Right?

Maybe.... Or perhaps instead ... it is something happening that is SO Deeply Hidden and Obscure that without the assistance of GOOD, HANDS ON INSPECTIONS (BUT NOT RIGHT AWAY >>> HANDS OFF, DUDE!) ... AND Without the assistance of an Oscilloscope... You might wind up SOL of a LOT of Time, Suffer EXTREME Aggravation and LOSE A LOT OF MONEY....and NEVER SOLVE THE PROBLEM!!!

*******SPOILER ALERT***********

Starting at 20:40 into the PHAD Video... Watch for "The Money Shot"...

FIVEVOLTREFGLITCH1.jpg

What do you know about the use of 12 Volt...and 5 Volt Reference Voltage in your Harness System coming from the PCM? Let's get some Preparatory Help here important for our later understanding about "WTF?" went wrong on the PHAD Video with a Short Training Video -= first=- coming from from Duane at "REALFIXESREALFAST" on this Topic:


And... Oscilloscope Necessity aside... @TJBaker57 will LOVE This Video...


...and THESE:

BLACK = LOW REFERENCE
PURPLE = 12 VOLTS B+
RED = 5 VOLT REFERENCE


upload_2017-4-25_20-33-51.pngupload_2017-4-25_20-37-25.pngupload_2017-4-25_20-34-43.png2004trailblazerpcm4-jpg.73337.jpegupload_2017-4-25_20-34-21.png

I'm including these Modified PCM Harness Pin-Out Images ahead of your observation of "Crazy Ivan" The Man From PHAD performing just such a Diagnosis in the Video shown below so that these Diagrams might serve the Owners of Trailblazers and Envoys well and truly in the Future, should such an issue raise its Ugly Head. Just Remember THESE Admonitions coming from Ivan....

"Heat and Vibrations... Heat and Vibrations...."

... as being added into your Diagnostic Lexicon Mantras and The Solution Side Calculus that you will ultimately want to employ here ...using an Oscilloscope...along with a Piercing Probe and a Grounded Test Light...around 20:30 Onwards... Observe:


 
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mrrsm

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If you have been curious enough ...and dedicated enough... to separate yourself out and well away from what "Mike, The Disgruntled Mechanic" calls "The 98%-ers" for the purposes of getting under the skin of TRUE Automotive Diagnostics entailing the use of Oscilloscopes... There is a steady progression that leads us all from the LEAST Expensive "O" Scopes with the LEAST amount of Capabilities and Features... Onward...Towards the "O" Scopes with GREATER Expense and consummately having the MOST Number of Improved Capabilities and Features.

Without making ANY Value Judgements of the Good, Better, Best variances below... These Tools all progress in the direction from having a Basic, 8 Bit "O" Scope Trace with "Jagged" Signal Traces passing on screen along with small sample rates, right up to and beyond the 12 Bit Sensitivity and even well beyond that ...to the point where One Second of Signal Capture can involve isolating BILLIONS OF SAMPLES per second.

And it is THERE that your Automotive Diagnostics can show the Best Level Jumps in Performance by improving the appearance of "SIGNAL FUBAR" well enough to be able to separate out "Subtle Voltage Over Time Variations" that will separate YOU from the common guesswork of "The Great Unwashed" struggling with "Well... What The HELL Do I DO Next...?"

It is THIS issue that allows You to avoid becoming "A Parts Changer". This negative connotation came right along with the advent of EFI and Air Managed Engine and Power Train Systems almost overnight. bringing along the loss of having Mechanical Distributors and the loss of using Two or Four Barrel Carburetors and the loss of using "Points, Plugs, Timing Lights and Street Cred Tuning Chops set at 30 Degrees BTDC".

These ideas used to be held by us as a "Point of Pride" that most Red-Blooded North American Men owning Chevrolet and GMC Cars and Trucks seized upon as being at the very core of their Automotive Engine Tune & Repair Understanding Prowess.

All of that pretty much became instantaneously USELESS from the mid-1980s onward... and all the way up to the contemporary issues of having many suffering with the present day problems of keeping Cars and Trucks driving... and NOT driving their Owners INSANE with their maintenance and upkeep.

The sad part about this history is that there were an awful lot of follow-on generations of Young Men and Women who may have had a better introduction to working on their First Cars had Dad (or Mom) been able to have access to the Tools and Skills allowing them to invite the Young Folks outside on any Saturday and lift their Car Hoods and become familiar with how to conduct even the most Basic of Engine Tune Ups if only "The Knowledge and Use of Oscilloscopes" had been common across the landscape of Automotive Acumen.

Most of us around back then might still miss the doing these activities ever since those halcyon and heady days have passed us by when once, we were able to listen to Local, Privately Owned, Non-Corporate AM and FM Radios Stations blasting contemporary music away in the Driveways of Car Enthusiasts EVERYWHERE assembled en masse...Going Outside to Work On Our Cars.

That pressing paradigm shift brought along the practical impossibility of using "Common Sense Mechanics" and replaced it with a hostage state of confusion, causing us to simply guess at "What Has Gone Sideways...NOW?". Well...That left us all to the tender mercies of "The Stealerships"...and later on...The Pro Shops serviced with Tools that might as well be made of Solid Gold.

Often, the only responses have been to throwing the contents of Wallets and Purses at these problems, while having to Buy our way out of perpetual mechanical purgatories ...just to be able to keep a decent vehicle ...running decently.

All during these advancing decades came the reality of many people never, ever having a single clue as to what to actually DO or what Tools are required to REALLY Diagnose Problems and then... Repair them. That is... Until the advent of Affordable Automotive Oscilloscopes and Higher End Scan Tools have come into vogue.

It is THIS understanding and the Practice with Oscilloscope Diagnostics that provides us all with the opportunities to Re-claim Our Name to Fame of having and driving all manner of vehicles that we not only understand... but can Diagnose and Repair OURSELVES with the assistance of this New-Found Knowledge... and the Professional Grade Tools Available on eBay right now... that won't Bankrupt those interested in REALLY playing in this Game!

What follows in this next Paul "Scanner" Danner YouTube Video is a Broad Concept Oscilloscope Training Session from Rosedale College in Pennsylvania wherein he describes How To Diagnose an Engine Misfire on a Toyota 4 Cylinder Engine using Two of the available Four Channel Oscilloscope Features of his Snap-On Verus Diagnostic Scan Tool. Think of -=The Progression of the Tools Needed To Do This Work=- as follows:

(1) Hantek Model# 1008C (8) Channel "O" Scope
(2) PICO-Scope Model # 2204A (2) Channel "O" Scope
(3) Autel MAXI-Scope Model# MP408 (4) Channel "O" Scope ****
(4) Snap-On Vantage (2) Channel "O" Scope
(5) Snap-On Vantage Pro (2) Channel "O" Scope
(6) Snap-On Modis (4) Channel "O" Scope
(7) Snap-On Verus (4) Channel "O" Scope

The Basic Approaches to setting up and using Auto Engine Diagnostics shown below apply to ALL Oscilloscopes... Every Single One!


****An Offer on a Brand New Autel MP408 Oscilloscope Kit



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