horrible mpg and weird idle drop
- Thread starter Gerbil21
- Start date
- May 28, 2014
- 839
- May 28, 2014
- 839
- May 28, 2014
- 839
- May 28, 2014
- 839
- May 28, 2014
- 839
hey gmcman can you post all the things you mention to get when cleaning out the engine
also i found a Nissan dealer close to me that does the bg44k service so i will see if i can buy a can or have them do the cleaning through the can they hook up on the fuel rail
if i got this correct i should get the gm cleaner and pour it in the tank then mix it with gas (what was the mix again?)
then spray it in the intake should i also use the gm or mopar top end cleaner overnight (is the gm cleaner a foam so i can leave it overnight in the cylinder?)
is there any specfic way to use the combustion chamber cleaner? i know jeep says to leave it in 1rst and drive it at high rpm then idle for a few seconds and repeat a few times
also i found a Nissan dealer close to me that does the bg44k service so i will see if i can buy a can or have them do the cleaning through the can they hook up on the fuel rail
if i got this correct i should get the gm cleaner and pour it in the tank then mix it with gas (what was the mix again?)
then spray it in the intake should i also use the gm or mopar top end cleaner overnight (is the gm cleaner a foam so i can leave it overnight in the cylinder?)
is there any specfic way to use the combustion chamber cleaner? i know jeep says to leave it in 1rst and drive it at high rpm then idle for a few seconds and repeat a few times
- May 28, 2014
- 839
should i just use it all at once (tank full of 44k and spraying gm cleaner, then do water)and then finish it off with a over night soak of the combustion chamber cleaner (gm or mopar?) and then just give it a long drive to run the rest of the cleaner through the fuel injectorsgmcman said:
also wouldn't spraying the water through the intake be better since the brake booster only gets the last few cylinders?
gmcman
Member
- Dec 12, 2011
- 4,673
That 16 oz bottle makes almost a gallon of concentrated cleaner.....I would go 14 oz at a time, that takes a while with a spray bottle.
I agree the TB is better than the booster hose for water, or anything.
I haven't soaked the cylinders before but I hear Seafoam or the Mopar cleaner works well when soaked overnight....I have never done this.
The BG44K in the tank will hit the back of the valves with the injectors....very effective.
I agree the TB is better than the booster hose for water, or anything.
I haven't soaked the cylinders before but I hear Seafoam or the Mopar cleaner works well when soaked overnight....I have never done this.
The BG44K in the tank will hit the back of the valves with the injectors....very effective.
- May 28, 2014
- 839
i was thinking of using water to decarbonize some of the engine today and was wondering should i take off the resonator and spray in throttle body or should i put a hose on the evap port on the tb and pour it in?
maybe i should try all 3 the brake booster, evap on the tb, and the capped off port that would get all cylinders pretty equally
maybe i should try all 3 the brake booster, evap on the tb, and the capped off port that would get all cylinders pretty equally
- May 28, 2014
- 839
ok well so far yesterday i sprayed 34oz of water through the brake booster with the rpm above 2k while spraying the water i got 3 codes
1.random cylinder misfire
2.idle speed to high
3.and u1026 for my tccm (idk why this popped up now)
the codes popped up during the time i pulled off the brake booster and was trying to fit a hose onto the booster i then capped off the booster port and the engine stalled. after that i was able to fit the sprayer nozzle in the port and was able to spray water in without a vacuum leak
after spraying all the water in i took it for a long drive and got some revs (only 2 wots) but i couldn't do much since there was traffic and lots of cops out
so after the trip i was getting 9.6mpg then i tried it again today, this time i had a hose that fit and i poured the water in i ended up pouring in 17oz then i took it for another long drive and got some revs in but not much only 1 wot, but i did get another code p0014 for the cpas i have gotten this code before and i have cleaned it before also so maybe i need another cleaning? the oil is only 1200 miles old the oil life shows 75% so it cant be gummed up but idk maybe i need to replace it?
the gm uec should be coming in tommorow can i add the bg44k to a empty tank since i have a 1/4 tank or do i need to fill up first.
1.random cylinder misfire
2.idle speed to high
3.and u1026 for my tccm (idk why this popped up now)
the codes popped up during the time i pulled off the brake booster and was trying to fit a hose onto the booster i then capped off the booster port and the engine stalled. after that i was able to fit the sprayer nozzle in the port and was able to spray water in without a vacuum leak
after spraying all the water in i took it for a long drive and got some revs (only 2 wots) but i couldn't do much since there was traffic and lots of cops out
so after the trip i was getting 9.6mpg then i tried it again today, this time i had a hose that fit and i poured the water in i ended up pouring in 17oz then i took it for another long drive and got some revs in but not much only 1 wot, but i did get another code p0014 for the cpas i have gotten this code before and i have cleaned it before also so maybe i need another cleaning? the oil is only 1200 miles old the oil life shows 75% so it cant be gummed up but idk maybe i need to replace it?
the gm uec should be coming in tommorow can i add the bg44k to a empty tank since i have a 1/4 tank or do i need to fill up first.
IllogicTC
Member
- Dec 30, 2013
- 3,452
If you're getting another P0014 with relatively-fresh oil and a recent cleaning, I would remove and examine it again. Maybe there's some contaminants on the screens again (and if it caught anything special, it'd be nice to know!), or maybe she's just worn out - it's still your original CPAS, yes?
Check for oil in the connector, check for a loose fitting between inner and outer halves (that was how mine failed, I had it bolted to the block and you could spin the half on the outside of the block freely), and check the resistance - should be somewhere in the neighborhood of 8-14 ohms or so I believe. Extreme low resistance (say <4) or high resistance (>18) is a definite replacement scenario. You could always disassemble the valve slide to clean the interior of the part out also. I am not sure if anyone's ever actually tried this, but you can use a hex key on the cap on the end that goes into the engine to remove it, be careful as it's spring-loaded and you don't want to lose that. Then the slide will slide out and you can clean it also and the insides of the screens.
Check for oil in the connector, check for a loose fitting between inner and outer halves (that was how mine failed, I had it bolted to the block and you could spin the half on the outside of the block freely), and check the resistance - should be somewhere in the neighborhood of 8-14 ohms or so I believe. Extreme low resistance (say <4) or high resistance (>18) is a definite replacement scenario. You could always disassemble the valve slide to clean the interior of the part out also. I am not sure if anyone's ever actually tried this, but you can use a hex key on the cap on the end that goes into the engine to remove it, be careful as it's spring-loaded and you don't want to lose that. Then the slide will slide out and you can clean it also and the insides of the screens.
IllogicTC
Member
- Dec 30, 2013
- 3,452
For this part, Dorman has been hit-and-miss. Some report success, I've seen plenty report failure. This engine is just too touchy about electronics, and it's best to go AC Delco with engine-critical items.Gerbil21 said:
GM Part# 12615873. Can be found starting at just over $40 on various GM parts dealers online, mine was had I think for a little over $50 total via gmpartsdirect, however I advise using a UNIQUE password when setting up an account on gmpartsdirect as they DO NOT ENCRYPT PASSWORDS ON THAT SITE. Yes it was worth putting that much emphasis, you can see the pass in cleartext on your settings area, so if you go through them you really should use a completely unique pass. They do not store payment info that I've seen but it's still a risk IMO.
You may also try searching Amazon for the part number. Could likely pay a bit more and get overnight shipping.
Some GM parts dealers:
GMPartsDirect (see warning above)
GMPartsOutlet
GMOutletParts
GMPartsCenter
Nalley GMC (parts.nalleygmc.com)
I can't comment on the service of any of these except GMPD, and it arrived about a week after my order. In a Suave shampoo box (the kind used to distribute it as a 6-pack to stores, to be unpacked and shelved
) but it was the proper part, packed well enough to not be damaged, and was a discounted price compared to going to the actual dealer.This same part may be had at the dealer for about $70, maybe more maybe less depending on their pricing scheme.
IllogicTC
Member
- Dec 30, 2013
- 3,452
UPDATE: Searching "GM 12615873" on Google, first result for me popped up a listing on Amazon for one for just under $60 with free shipping. Again, I would imagine you could probably pay more and get quicker shipping.
When my CPAS went, it definitely killed my MPG and idled pretty badly.
When my CPAS went, it definitely killed my MPG and idled pretty badly.
KNBlazer
Member
- Feb 8, 2012
- 811
I got my CPAS from ebay off of a GM dealer vendor for $40 shipped
Check out this item I found on eBay:
End time: Sep 26, 2014 11:34:53 AM
Item: GM OEM 12615873 Timing Miscellaneous
URL: http://pages.ebay.com/motors/link/?nav=item.view&id=221534336702&alt=web
Alt URL: http://www.ebay.com/itm/GM-OEM-12615873-Timing-Miscellaneous-/221534336702
(Sent from eBay Mobile for Android)
THERE ARE OTHER LISTINGS that say GM in description and are less than $40, but if you dig further, you find the brand listed as Dorman...Be very careful...
gmcman
Member
- Dec 12, 2011
- 4,673
Gerbil, this is what my intake looked like after the cleaning. I used 44K first, then the water and the top end cleaner. I believe the 44K took care of the intake valves but the rest really cleaned the top of the pistons.
http://gmtnation.com/forums/topic/10668-borescope-vid-at-intake-valves/?hl=borescope
http://gmtnation.com/forums/topic/10668-borescope-vid-at-intake-valves/?hl=borescope
Attachments
- May 28, 2014
- 839
Well I got the 44k and the tec in the mail today and will try it later but right now I'm trying to help my brother with his jeep
I am under 1/4 tank right now so should I fill to 1/2 or 3/4 (10 or 15 gallons)? It says to mix whole bottle with up to 20 gallons of gas
Also I will be spraying 1oz of uec with 7oz of gas into the tb correct?
I am under 1/4 tank right now so should I fill to 1/2 or 3/4 (10 or 15 gallons)? It says to mix whole bottle with up to 20 gallons of gas
Also I will be spraying 1oz of uec with 7oz of gas into the tb correct?
- May 28, 2014
- 839
Ok well I didn't get to do it today but I will see if I can Thursday or Friday if not then sunday I was supposed to help my brother replace a drag link end on his jeep and we ended up replacing the whole bar. So I wasn't able to clean anything today but soon i will.
also mpg is at 9.8 after all that long highway driving. tomorrow I will reset it and see where it gets to with just city driving and if that water made a diffrence
also mpg is at 9.8 after all that long highway driving. tomorrow I will reset it and see where it gets to with just city driving and if that water made a diffrence
So G21.....how did things work out? This thread really got my attention with the troubles you were having with gas mileage and the such. Nobody has posted anything here for nearly a week....let us know. Thx.
- May 28, 2014
- 839
I will try to do it today if I can but so far I can say the water worked since I'm at 8.7 from 8.3 and If I would do it again I would spray through the capped off vacuum port aswell and the evap port on the tb since spraying on the tb plate doesn't work very well even at 2500rpm the plate isn't open much and the fan blew most of the water away but idling seems to drop the mpg pretty quick which is what I'm usually doing since I'm probably waiting at lights more then driving
- May 28, 2014
- 839
No not yet I'm just driving around to waste some gas so I can get it under a 1/4 tank to be able to mix the 44k in with some gas then I'm going to do the tec through the tb.
Did you just drive it after using the Tec or did u drive it hard and get some revs in or did u let it sit and soak then drive it?
Did you just drive it after using the Tec or did u drive it hard and get some revs in or did u let it sit and soak then drive it?
gmcman
Member
- Dec 12, 2011
- 4,673
As long as you put the 44K in before you fill up it will thoroughly mix, 1/4 tank is fine.
I didn't let the tec soak since it's basically burnt up during combustion. Not like that Mopar chemical people drop through the spark plug hole and let soak sometimes. ...which is real good stuff also.
I would suggest for a few miles keep it in 2nd gear and run it up from maybe 2-5K a number of times. Gets a good strong spray from the injectors.
Italian style, not driving Miss Daisy...
I didn't let the tec soak since it's basically burnt up during combustion. Not like that Mopar chemical people drop through the spark plug hole and let soak sometimes. ...which is real good stuff also.
I would suggest for a few miles keep it in 2nd gear and run it up from maybe 2-5K a number of times. Gets a good strong spray from the injectors.
Italian style, not driving Miss Daisy...
- May 28, 2014
- 839
So yea I put the 44k and filled up then went to siphon some fuel to use for the Tec but I couldn't so I gave up and decided to floor it either way it didn't feel like it wanted to rev, so on the second pass coming back I pushed it again and it just stood at 5k and didn't want to go and then something popped and sounded like it depressurized so I thought it was a coolant line or the rusty trans cooler line but when I pulled over there was nothing out of place so I drove it some more and checked again twice on the second check I went to check the tail pipe and saw some "hair" coming out so after I got home we pulled all of it out "it filled two bags" then I took it for a drive again and it seemed to rev much more and drive better also it sounds better now that it has a bit of rumble pop on revving so I'm going to see if I cut it off tomorrow also with highway driving it went from 9.1 to 10.4
Blckshdw
Moderator
- May 28, 2014
- 839
ok thought i should give an update so far i haven't went through the tank of 44k yet but im going to have to fill up since i have to go on a trip so this is also a good time to check mpg and maybe do some water cleaning again after the long trip. i got around to taking off the cpas and a spark plug today and using the endoscope i recently got. here are some pics and the next post will have more pics and video links
picture 1 clean spot on cylinder 2
picture 2 inside pcv intake (valve cover)
picture 3 same thing as #2 just different quality
picture 4 dirty air hose port (pcv vacuum)
picture 5 same thing just different quality
picture 6 intake valves
picture 7 another pic of #2 piston
picture 1 clean spot on cylinder 2
picture 2 inside pcv intake (valve cover)
picture 3 same thing as #2 just different quality
picture 4 dirty air hose port (pcv vacuum)
picture 5 same thing just different quality
picture 6 intake valves
picture 7 another pic of #2 piston
Attachments
- May 28, 2014
- 839
