- Sep 24, 2012
- 71
@bspurloc I don’t have electric fan I have the normal fan clutch.
Two years ago I replace the fan clutch at that time it was a pain but I put anti seas on the thread.
Replacing Crankshaft Front Seal [SOLVED]
- Thread starter Ric_Whit
- Start date
Two years ago I replace the fan clutch at that time it was a pain but I put anti seas on the thread.
jsheahawk
Member
@bspurloc … There is simply no better write up anywhere, courtesy of @Matt than the one he penned and linked here below for The Best Procedures on “How to R&R a Water Pump”. Of necessity… he includes an elegant and brilliantly simple method for holding the Fan Clutch still while overcoming and loosening “The Jesus Nut”:
https://gmtnation.com/forums/threads/how-to-replace-the-water-pump.15639/#post-505126
https://gmtnation.com/forums/threads/how-to-replace-the-water-pump.15639/#post-505126
Forgive me if this has been mentioned before, but when pressing the harmonic balancer (2nd gen) back onto the crankshaft, are you able to use the balancer bolt to accomplish this, or are the threads too short to initially bite into the crankshaft? I'd assume that this is a no go anyway since it's a TTY bolt.
So I guess I am really wondering if anyone has made their own pressing tool (something like this... https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61GF0WxOQ1L._SL1435_.jpg ). I was planning on using the stock bolt to find out what dimension the threads are, and purchasing a hardened bolt with the same sized threads (but longer), then welding a nut onto the end that will get snugged up into the crankshaft (the nut would keep the bolt from going deeper into the crankshaft when it's being torqued), and then using a washer and nut on the other end that I would use to press in the balancer. This should work, right?
So I guess I am really wondering if anyone has made their own pressing tool (something like this... https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61GF0WxOQ1L._SL1435_.jpg ). I was planning on using the stock bolt to find out what dimension the threads are, and purchasing a hardened bolt with the same sized threads (but longer), then welding a nut onto the end that will get snugged up into the crankshaft (the nut would keep the bolt from going deeper into the crankshaft when it's being torqued), and then using a washer and nut on the other end that I would use to press in the balancer. This should work, right?
You should NEVER attempt to use any USED TTY Fastener to install any Harmonic Balancer or Pulley. Before beginning... you will have to locate and remove... The Black Plastic Plug ...situated in the bottom rear flange of the Crankcase-Oil-Pan and then, after aligning one of the three Torque Converter Bolts Dead Center over that hole.... insert a 15MM Deep Socket with an attached Short Breaker Bar... to fix the position of the Crankshaft in such a manner that it will not move during the installation of the Harmonic Balancer.
It follows ... as shown in the attached images... that you must use the Proper Tool for the HB Installation (or make one yourself using the proper Metric Thread and Pitch using Grade 8 Bolt Threaded Stock and Welding a Hex Nut on the top... or just obtain a Kit as offered on various sites on the Web). Take special note that prior to performing this HB Installation... the threads on the shank of this installation tool must be completely lubricated with High Pressure Grease (that is what is inside those Tan plastic squeeze packets depicted in the attached images) and eventually the shank will need to be threaded down inside of the Crankshaft as far as possible.
It is necessary to first thread the Tightening Nut onto the HB Installer Bolt Shank, followed by the Small Hardened Steel Washer and ending this Stack with the Wide Thrust Washer ( a little grease on both sides of the Small Steel Washer will help with any resistance). This is the proper order to follow prior to holding up the heavy Harmonic Balancer loosely adjacent the nose of the Crankshaft and threading in the Grade 8 Bolt Thread Stock (or stronger Bolt Shank) completely inwards until it bottoms out inside of the Crankshaft. Do Not Over-Tighten this Bolt inside of the Crankshaft.
Next... while still holding the Harmonic Balancer flush with the opening over the nose of the Crankshaft (There is no special position for the Harmonic Balancer to be in as there is NO WOODRUFF KEY-SLOT in this HB Design) ... run the Tightening Nut and Washer Stack down the threaded shaft until the face of the Wide Steel Washer is completely flush with the outer face of the Harmonic Balancer. Gradually. Then begin to tighten down the Tightening Nut until the pressure starts pushing the Harmonic Balancer over and onto the nose of the Crankshaft... but do not over tighten it after it completely stops its inward motion.
If you have previously measured the distance between the inside face of the old Harmonic Balancer vs. the outside face of the Timing Chain Cover... compare that distance again with a measurement of the installed New Harmonic Balancer. After removing the HB Installer Tool Kit... clean out the threaded HB Bolt Hole in the Crankshaft of all the High Pressure Grease with a spray nozzle can of Brake Cleaner so that the factory applied Threadlocker on the New HB Bolt will properly grip the new bolt to the Crankshaft.
Please remember that once any force is applied to a TTY Bolt that is a sufficient amount to cause the Bolt to Deform... it cannot be re-used. Installing a Used Old TTY Crankshaft Bolt has been mentioned on occasion in other threads... but with the necessity of applying 110 Foot Pounds of Force ... and then applying an enormous twisting moment of 180 Degrees as the final tightening effort... I would not recommend having a bi-sectional HB spinning at up to 6,000 + RPM being held in place with a TTY Bolt that has already been stretched to its limits.
If this HB Fastener is improperly installed and improperly tightened... and it loosens... The engine could destroy itself by the longitudinal forces generated by the Rotating Assembly that manage to take over with no HB 'in charge' to control and mitigate them. So much for not wanting to spend an additional $10-$15 for a New TTY HB Bolt. Once you are satisfied with your work... Don't forget to remove the 15MM Deep Sock and Breaker Bar from the underside pf the Crankcase-Oil-Pan and re-install the Black Plastic Plug into the Crankcase Flange.
It follows ... as shown in the attached images... that you must use the Proper Tool for the HB Installation (or make one yourself using the proper Metric Thread and Pitch using Grade 8 Bolt Threaded Stock and Welding a Hex Nut on the top... or just obtain a Kit as offered on various sites on the Web). Take special note that prior to performing this HB Installation... the threads on the shank of this installation tool must be completely lubricated with High Pressure Grease (that is what is inside those Tan plastic squeeze packets depicted in the attached images) and eventually the shank will need to be threaded down inside of the Crankshaft as far as possible.
It is necessary to first thread the Tightening Nut onto the HB Installer Bolt Shank, followed by the Small Hardened Steel Washer and ending this Stack with the Wide Thrust Washer ( a little grease on both sides of the Small Steel Washer will help with any resistance). This is the proper order to follow prior to holding up the heavy Harmonic Balancer loosely adjacent the nose of the Crankshaft and threading in the Grade 8 Bolt Thread Stock (or stronger Bolt Shank) completely inwards until it bottoms out inside of the Crankshaft. Do Not Over-Tighten this Bolt inside of the Crankshaft.
Next... while still holding the Harmonic Balancer flush with the opening over the nose of the Crankshaft (There is no special position for the Harmonic Balancer to be in as there is NO WOODRUFF KEY-SLOT in this HB Design) ... run the Tightening Nut and Washer Stack down the threaded shaft until the face of the Wide Steel Washer is completely flush with the outer face of the Harmonic Balancer. Gradually. Then begin to tighten down the Tightening Nut until the pressure starts pushing the Harmonic Balancer over and onto the nose of the Crankshaft... but do not over tighten it after it completely stops its inward motion.
If you have previously measured the distance between the inside face of the old Harmonic Balancer vs. the outside face of the Timing Chain Cover... compare that distance again with a measurement of the installed New Harmonic Balancer. After removing the HB Installer Tool Kit... clean out the threaded HB Bolt Hole in the Crankshaft of all the High Pressure Grease with a spray nozzle can of Brake Cleaner so that the factory applied Threadlocker on the New HB Bolt will properly grip the new bolt to the Crankshaft.
Please remember that once any force is applied to a TTY Bolt that is a sufficient amount to cause the Bolt to Deform... it cannot be re-used. Installing a Used Old TTY Crankshaft Bolt has been mentioned on occasion in other threads... but with the necessity of applying 110 Foot Pounds of Force ... and then applying an enormous twisting moment of 180 Degrees as the final tightening effort... I would not recommend having a bi-sectional HB spinning at up to 6,000 + RPM being held in place with a TTY Bolt that has already been stretched to its limits.
If this HB Fastener is improperly installed and improperly tightened... and it loosens... The engine could destroy itself by the longitudinal forces generated by the Rotating Assembly that manage to take over with no HB 'in charge' to control and mitigate them. So much for not wanting to spend an additional $10-$15 for a New TTY HB Bolt. Once you are satisfied with your work... Don't forget to remove the 15MM Deep Sock and Breaker Bar from the underside pf the Crankcase-Oil-Pan and re-install the Black Plastic Plug into the Crankcase Flange.
Last edited:
I can't believe the hardest part of this whole ordeal has been removing the old cooked oil seal. As far as the new one goes, the shop manual states to just coat the outside edges of the seal with engine oil for install. Is this what everyone else did? No need to coat the inner bore where the harmonic balancer makes contact? Thanks.
Mooseman
Moderator
@Ric_Whit... I made some modifications to the images I had of the Crankcase-Oil-Pan to include procedural hints:
NOTE & Small h/j:
The Threaded Openings that I HI-Lighted in Red Circles are a contribution that comes from @Mooseman on WHERE to Screw in Two of the Crank-Case-Oil-Pan Bolts in order to EVENLY separate the super-adhesive ACDelco Silicone Seal in between the Oil-Pan and the Base Flange of the Engine Block.
This action becomes necessary if the Crank-case Oil-Pan must be removed in order to access the Oil Pick Up Tube for Cleaning and/or "O"Ring replacement due to Low Oil Pressure.
NOTE & Small h/j:
The Threaded Openings that I HI-Lighted in Red Circles are a contribution that comes from @Mooseman on WHERE to Screw in Two of the Crank-Case-Oil-Pan Bolts in order to EVENLY separate the super-adhesive ACDelco Silicone Seal in between the Oil-Pan and the Base Flange of the Engine Block.
This action becomes necessary if the Crank-case Oil-Pan must be removed in order to access the Oil Pick Up Tube for Cleaning and/or "O"Ring replacement due to Low Oil Pressure.
Last edited:
Thank you. It makes no sense to me why the shop manual says to only place oil on the outside of the seal and nothing on the inside. I understand that it's probably to aid in the insertion, but I would think that reducing the friction on the outer edge of the seal could potentially cause the seal to spin and burn up, especially since the inner diameter of the seal is unlubed.
djjunior305
Member
Good afternoon @Ric_Whit can you please help me out here in telling me what tools did you need exactly and order to do this job hope to hear from you thank you and God Bless
Last edited:
Welcome to GMT Nation...
Would you please elaborate on why you need to remove the Harmonic Balancer?
If you absolutely must do so... THIS is the GM Specific Kent-Moore J-44226-U Harmonic Balancer Tool Kit required for the removal of the HB on the 2002-2003 Trailblazers, Envoys and Raniers. Unfortunately, Rare Tools are always Very Pricey and often hard to find. Freedom Racing does carry this Tool Kit... from time to time:
https://www.freedomracing.com/crankshaft-balancer-remover-set-j-44226-u.html
Once you manage to get the Old Style Harmonic Balancer off of the front of the Engine, consider switching over to the Updated GM HB (with a Better Friction Washer fitted on the inside) shown in the attached images below as it can be removed with a much less complicated and less expensive puller tool kit:
Other Members may have some alternative ideas on how to get this Damned Nuisance Designed HB off the Motor ...without damaging the front of the Timing Cover or the nose of the Crankshaft. Remember to replace the Old TTY Bolt with a Brand New One.
Would you please elaborate on why you need to remove the Harmonic Balancer?
If you absolutely must do so... THIS is the GM Specific Kent-Moore J-44226-U Harmonic Balancer Tool Kit required for the removal of the HB on the 2002-2003 Trailblazers, Envoys and Raniers. Unfortunately, Rare Tools are always Very Pricey and often hard to find. Freedom Racing does carry this Tool Kit... from time to time:
https://www.freedomracing.com/crankshaft-balancer-remover-set-j-44226-u.html
Once you manage to get the Old Style Harmonic Balancer off of the front of the Engine, consider switching over to the Updated GM HB (with a Better Friction Washer fitted on the inside) shown in the attached images below as it can be removed with a much less complicated and less expensive puller tool kit:
Other Members may have some alternative ideas on how to get this Damned Nuisance Designed HB off the Motor ...without damaging the front of the Timing Cover or the nose of the Crankshaft. Remember to replace the Old TTY Bolt with a Brand New One.
djjunior305
Member
Thank you @MRRSM I have an oil leak right on the center of the crankshaft there's oil all over the belt and all over the place in front of the engine also I noticed the center screw with the engine running wobbling around up and down side to side all around while spinning when I look from the top of the engine the crankshaft pulley is not wobbling when i look under the car facing the crankshaft pulley center screw I notice the center is wobbling also I have vibration on the engine while in park or idling
Last edited:
The wisest thing to do now is to NOT allow the engine to turn over even One RPM until you can affect this repair. Without the Harmonic Balancer firmly attached to the Nose of the Crankshaft ...all of the enormous harmonic longitudinal force generated by the Rotating Assembly will try and tear that engine apart.
Once you manage to remove the Harmonic Balancer... it will be very necessary to examine the INNER Race of the Old HB for signs of Wear Damage and do the same thing with the Nose of the Crankshaft AFTER you manage to extract the Old Oil Seal.
If the Crankshaft shows signs of cracking or metal gouging... it may be impossible to get the New HB to sit squarely enough of the face of the Crankshaft and make a Solid Friction contact with the Inside Friction Washer of the New HB.
The Force required to marry these two things is 110 Foot Pounds followed by the additional Torque from rotating the HB Bolt 180 Degrees (From 12:00 to 6:00).
If you look at the underside of the New HB TTY Bolt, you'll notice some sealant that is designed to ensure the Bolt is not encouraged to ever Back Out of its own accord.
Even though all Inline Engines are "Naturally Balanced" they all require the HB to mitigate all of the increasing amplitude of Engine Vibrations. This is ESPECIALLY True for the GM Atlas LL8 4,2L Engines. I'm hoping that you have caught this issue in time and that the Crankshaft and Internal Rotating Rods and Crank Journals and Bearings have not been damaged yet ...in particular, the 5th Journal Thrust Bearing.
Due to having a Loose HB, I'm also suspecting that your Flex-Plate has already begun to Crack in places around the Bolt Pattern at the Back of the Crankshaft as well because of this excessive amount of Fore and Aft movements that have occurred.
I would urge that you immediately Drain the Engine Oil and Pull the Oil Filter. Get a 1/2 Gallon of Kerosene and perform an Autopsy on the Oil Filter to Wash and Brush out any internal debris from within the Paper Filter Folds and examine the contents at the bottom of the Bucket with a Magnet for Ferrous Metals ...or shiny, silvery Aluminum Residue down inside the Bucket and follow up here with your findings (Hopefully...There will be NONE.)
Man........... I am VERY Glad that you stopped in to join us, as under these circumstances, there are quite a few of our Members who can make suggestions on how to proceed. Welcome aboard and keep us posted, Brother!
Once you manage to remove the Harmonic Balancer... it will be very necessary to examine the INNER Race of the Old HB for signs of Wear Damage and do the same thing with the Nose of the Crankshaft AFTER you manage to extract the Old Oil Seal.
If the Crankshaft shows signs of cracking or metal gouging... it may be impossible to get the New HB to sit squarely enough of the face of the Crankshaft and make a Solid Friction contact with the Inside Friction Washer of the New HB.
The Force required to marry these two things is 110 Foot Pounds followed by the additional Torque from rotating the HB Bolt 180 Degrees (From 12:00 to 6:00).
If you look at the underside of the New HB TTY Bolt, you'll notice some sealant that is designed to ensure the Bolt is not encouraged to ever Back Out of its own accord.
Even though all Inline Engines are "Naturally Balanced" they all require the HB to mitigate all of the increasing amplitude of Engine Vibrations. This is ESPECIALLY True for the GM Atlas LL8 4,2L Engines. I'm hoping that you have caught this issue in time and that the Crankshaft and Internal Rotating Rods and Crank Journals and Bearings have not been damaged yet ...in particular, the 5th Journal Thrust Bearing.
Due to having a Loose HB, I'm also suspecting that your Flex-Plate has already begun to Crack in places around the Bolt Pattern at the Back of the Crankshaft as well because of this excessive amount of Fore and Aft movements that have occurred.
I would urge that you immediately Drain the Engine Oil and Pull the Oil Filter. Get a 1/2 Gallon of Kerosene and perform an Autopsy on the Oil Filter to Wash and Brush out any internal debris from within the Paper Filter Folds and examine the contents at the bottom of the Bucket with a Magnet for Ferrous Metals ...or shiny, silvery Aluminum Residue down inside the Bucket and follow up here with your findings (Hopefully...There will be NONE.)
Man........... I am VERY Glad that you stopped in to join us, as under these circumstances, there are quite a few of our Members who can make suggestions on how to proceed. Welcome aboard and keep us posted, Brother!
Last edited:
djjunior305
Member
Thank you so much @MRRSM i think I got screwed I just bought this vehicle from some Italian guy in orlando last week i drove four hours to go see it and drove it four hours back home to Miami I don't even know if I should even bother throwing money to it since I saw the Center screw wobbling not that the HB is wobbling from the belt which is not it's the center screw so I'm worried something internal like the bearings are damaged and I think he put some kind of Lucas Oil in there so I wouldn't notice anything because the oil that is leaking looks thick thank you God Bless
Stop a Bit... FWIW...
I JUST located a Used HB Tool Kit on eBay for $150.00 +$15.00 S&H via THIS Link:
KEEP THE FAITH.... Just because the Original Owner was an IDIOT does not mean that the situation can't be FIXED. Follow the Evidence based information from the Internal Engine Sounds AFTER you replace the HB ...and go from there. Until you know for certain that there is (or is NOT) any "Metal In The Pan and Oil Filter"... Keep On Truckin'...
I JUST located a Used HB Tool Kit on eBay for $150.00 +$15.00 S&H via THIS Link:
Kent Moore J44226 Crankshaft Balance Remover Tools for sale online | eBay
Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Kent Moore J44226 Crankshaft Balance Remover Tools at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
rover.ebay.com
KEEP THE FAITH.... Just because the Original Owner was an IDIOT does not mean that the situation can't be FIXED. Follow the Evidence based information from the Internal Engine Sounds AFTER you replace the HB ...and go from there. Until you know for certain that there is (or is NOT) any "Metal In The Pan and Oil Filter"... Keep On Truckin'...
Last edited:
djjunior305
Member
Amen thank you brother God Bless you my friend @MRRSM I'll keep you postedStop a Bit... FWIW...
I JUST located a Used HB Tool Kit on eBay for $150.00 +$15.00 S&H via THIS Link:
Kent Moore J44226 Crankshaft Balance Remover Tools for sale online | eBay
Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Kent Moore J44226 Crankshaft Balance Remover Tools at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!rover.ebay.com
View attachment 95382
KEEP THE FAITH.... Just because the Original Owner was an IDIOT does not mean that the situation can't be FIXED. Follow the Evidence based information from the Internal Engine Sounds AFTER you replace the HB ...and go from there. Until you know for certain that there is (or is NOT) any "Metal In The Pan and Oil Filter"... Keep On Truckin'...
Mooseman
Moderator
That tool is required ONLY if you have the original style balancer with the ring plate on the face. If you look at this thread, it explains the difference.
djjunior305
Member
Thank you @Mooseman my vehicle is a 2002 Chevrolet TrailBlazer LS I would have to check if the HB has ever been changed before to the newer version I'll keep you posted God bless
djjunior305
Member
Ok @Mooseman so it looks like I have the 2nd generation HB I really haven't been able to do anything this past weekend due to the weather what tools can I use to remove this or what tools do I need exactly thanks God Bless
Last edited:
This is Good News...
This OTC Harmonic Balancer Puller Kit works well on the removal of the 2nd Gen Harmonic Balancer by using the Longer Center Pin that fits deep down inside of the Hollow of the Crankshaft Bolt Cavity for the Tightening Bolt Force to be Dead Center.
Meanwhile, the Three Outer “Hooks” fit into the Triad Slots cut into on the underside of the HB. This Tool will SMOOTHLY remove the HB, as long as you remember to apply a Dollop of High Pressure Grease on the Threads of the Tool Tightening Hex-Bolt. They NEVER made a better one of these Tools for this express purpose:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000P6UT2I/?tag=gmtnation-20
Please... if you discover ANY damage to the Old OEM HB... Don't be tempted to re-use it. At the very least... you should REPLACE THE HB SPECIAL INNER FRICTION WASHER as this item is ordinarily only included on a New GM Acdelco Harmonic Balancer. NOT doing this is just to invite the same problem happening all over again should that Old Washer fail to tighten down properly. If you insist on using the Old One and later on, the PCM throws a P1345 Code (CKP ) Crankshaft Position Error Code) after starting up the engine... then you'll know why the R&R did NOT work:
I'm uncertain if there is an After-Market Harmonic Balancer that has the same High Quality and reliability as the ACDelco OEM Version I posted images of earlier and available via RockAuto:
RockAuto for the Timing Cover Crankshaft Seal:
However, if other Members make such a recommendation and Autozone carries it, ask the Counter Man if you can "Borrow" this OTC Tool Kit. If circumstances force this indignity upon you of having physically to go there (Masked & Gloved Up) for a Face-2-Face encounter to make this HB purchase, remember to... OPEN THE TOOL KIT AND EXAMINE IT FOR ANY MISSING COMPONENTS OR DAMAGE TO IT... BEFORE YOU LEAVE THE STORE. Otherwise... THIS is a Very Handy HB Removal Tool Kit... to outright OWN.
This OTC Harmonic Balancer Puller Kit works well on the removal of the 2nd Gen Harmonic Balancer by using the Longer Center Pin that fits deep down inside of the Hollow of the Crankshaft Bolt Cavity for the Tightening Bolt Force to be Dead Center.
Meanwhile, the Three Outer “Hooks” fit into the Triad Slots cut into on the underside of the HB. This Tool will SMOOTHLY remove the HB, as long as you remember to apply a Dollop of High Pressure Grease on the Threads of the Tool Tightening Hex-Bolt. They NEVER made a better one of these Tools for this express purpose:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000P6UT2I/?tag=gmtnation-20
Please... if you discover ANY damage to the Old OEM HB... Don't be tempted to re-use it. At the very least... you should REPLACE THE HB SPECIAL INNER FRICTION WASHER as this item is ordinarily only included on a New GM Acdelco Harmonic Balancer. NOT doing this is just to invite the same problem happening all over again should that Old Washer fail to tighten down properly. If you insist on using the Old One and later on, the PCM throws a P1345 Code (CKP ) Crankshaft Position Error Code) after starting up the engine... then you'll know why the R&R did NOT work:
I'm uncertain if there is an After-Market Harmonic Balancer that has the same High Quality and reliability as the ACDelco OEM Version I posted images of earlier and available via RockAuto:
2002 CHEVROLET TRAILBLAZER 4.2L L6 Harmonic Balancer | RockAuto
RockAuto ships auto parts and body parts from over 300 manufacturers to customers' doors worldwide, all at warehouse prices. Easy to use parts catalog.
www.rockauto.com
RockAuto for the Timing Cover Crankshaft Seal:
2002 CHEVROLET TRAILBLAZER 4.2L L6 Crankshaft Seal | RockAuto
RockAuto ships auto parts and body parts from over 300 manufacturers to customers' doors worldwide, all at warehouse prices. Easy to use parts catalog.
www.rockauto.com
However, if other Members make such a recommendation and Autozone carries it, ask the Counter Man if you can "Borrow" this OTC Tool Kit. If circumstances force this indignity upon you of having physically to go there (Masked & Gloved Up) for a Face-2-Face encounter to make this HB purchase, remember to... OPEN THE TOOL KIT AND EXAMINE IT FOR ANY MISSING COMPONENTS OR DAMAGE TO IT... BEFORE YOU LEAVE THE STORE. Otherwise... THIS is a Very Handy HB Removal Tool Kit... to outright OWN.
Last edited:
djjunior305
Member
Thank you so much @MRRSM I ordered the original OEM parts the HB the seal and the bolt from Amazon am I missing anything else or that's it and do I need any other tool besides the one to remove the HB what about installing it do I need another tool or can I use the same tool that's used to remove the HB to install it thanks God Bless
Last edited:
Double Check against the EDIT: I just made about the Corrected Parts and Numbers courtesy RockAuto if you just made that order based upon the initial information I previously described in Post # 61... The UPDATED Information is Accurate. (Sorry about that...)
NOTE:
THE ORIGINAL, OLD STYLE HARMONIC BALANCER MAY HAVE A DIFFERENT SEAL 'INSIDE DIAMETER' THAN THE UPDATED GM ACDELCO VERSION...
BOTH THE NEW TIMING COVER SEAL AND THE NEW, UPDATED HARMONIC BALANCE MUST HAVE THE SAME INSIDE V.S. OUTSIDE DIAMETER ON THE UPDATED ONE!
NOTE:
THE ORIGINAL, OLD STYLE HARMONIC BALANCER MAY HAVE A DIFFERENT SEAL 'INSIDE DIAMETER' THAN THE UPDATED GM ACDELCO VERSION...
BOTH THE NEW TIMING COVER SEAL AND THE NEW, UPDATED HARMONIC BALANCE MUST HAVE THE SAME INSIDE V.S. OUTSIDE DIAMETER ON THE UPDATED ONE!
Last edited:
djjunior305
Member
Just a 'few' more things come to mind... (Ten + 1 Steps... Actually)
After you Secure the Holding Position on the Crankshaft by Passing a 15mm Deep Socket attached to Breaker Bar THROUGH the Center Hole in the Underside of the Crankcase-Oil-Pan and over one of the aligned Three Torque Converter-to Flex-Plate Bolts:
(1) Do NOT Forget to Install the Brand New Seal in the Timing Cover Case BEFORE ever touching that New Harmonic Balancer! After cleaning up the front of the Timing Cover Case around the HB Seal Opening with Brake-Kleen, use a Dollop of High Temp Permatex Black Silicone Sealant (courtesy @Mooseman's idea...) on the inner edges of the TC Seal insert hollow.
(2) Then, after placing a 4" Square section of 2"X4" Wood over the face of the HB Seal, Tap it in uniformly with a Hammer until the edges of the TC Seal Metal Lip are fairly flush with the outer surface of the Timing Cover.And just as he said before, "Put a SMALL amount of Grease on the inner edges of the PTFE TC Seal..."
DO NOT HIT THE OUTER SEAL FLANGE WITH TOO MUCH FORCE ...OR YOU MIGHT DISLODGE THE INTERNAL EXPANSION SPRING LOOSELY OUT ONTO THE OD OF CRANKSHAFT, DEFEATING WHAT MAKES THE SEAL WORK PROPERLY... AND YOU WILL NEVER KNOW THAT THIS HAPPENED ...UNTIL THE OIL STARTS POURING OUT ...ALL OVER AGAIN.
SINCE THIS WAS A REPLACEMENT HARMONIC BALANCER DONE BY SOMEONE ELSE BEFORE YOUR OWNERSHIP ...PERHAPS THIS IS WHAT STARTED THE WHOLE "HB OIL NOSE BLEED" PROBLEM IN THE FIRST PLACE. SO TAPPING THESE KINDS OF SEALS IN WITH 'JUST ENOUGH' ENERGY TO UNIFORMLY SEAT THEM HOME IS ALWAYS THE 'BEST PRACTICE'.
LOOK FOR A LOOSE TIMING COVER SEAL COMPRESSION SPRING THAT MIGHT JUST BE HANGING ONTO THE OUTER EDGES OF THE CRANKSHAFT (LIKE A CHARM BRACELET ON A DEBUTANTE'S WRIST) JUST AFTER YOU PULL THE TIMING COVER SEAL CASING OUT OF THE TIMING COVER.
(3) Okay... using the components in the HB Installation Tool Kit, thread the Large Nut onto the Lubricated Threaded Bolt FIRST, followed by installing the Dual Thrust Washers Combo and then run all three almost all the way up towards the underside of the HB Installation Tool Hex Bolt Head. Be advised that since there is NO SLOTTED WOODRUFF KEY in this Design...the HB can be mounted in any of its possible 360 Degrees of position. Therefore, FRICTION is paramount here.
MAKE CERTAIN TO WIPE THE FACE OF SPECIAL FRICTION WASHER ON THE INSIDE OF THE INNER HARMONIC BALANCER SNOUT AND THE NOSE OF THE CRANKSHAFT WHERE THEY MATE TOGETHER WITH A PAPER TOWEL SOAKED IN BRAKE-KLEEN. THIS WILL ENSURE THAT BOTH SURFACES ARE COMPLETELY FREE OF ANY OIL OR GREASE.
(4) Follow this by holding up the Harmonic Balancer CLOSE to the TC Seal Opening and while supporting the Weight of the HB from its underside with one hand, use the other one to carefully guide the HB Installation Tool Bolt smoothly through the Timing Cover Seal Opening and begin threading the Bolt into the Nose of the Crankshaft and as far down inside as it will go BY HAND and then make it EVER SO SLIGHTLY TIGHTER with a Wrench and then ...STOP. You DO NOT want to Over-Tighten that Bolt, or you will NOT be able to unwind it from inside of the Crankshaft!
(5) Next, begin to Hand Tighten down the Large Nut over the Two, Lubed Thrust Washers until you can feel things getting pretty snugged up as they make first contact with the outer surface of the Harmonic Balancer. BE VERY CAREFUL HERE NOT TO ALLOW THE HB TO WOBBLE AROUND TOO MUCH AND ACCIDENTALLY DISLODGE THE SPECIAL FRICTION WASHER.
(6) It follows on that while holding the HB Installation Hex Bolt Head with a Box End Wrench, use either an Open End Wrench or a Large Crescent Wrench to slowly turn down the Large Nut & Dual Thrust Washer Combo inwards in a Clockwise direction. Make certain to Square Up the HB to the Nose of the Crankshaft FIRST as you tighten down the Large Nut so that it properly glides onto the OD on the end of the Crankshaft.
(7) Keep turning the Large Nut until you can feel and see the HB passing through the TC Seal and follow its progress inwards ...until it STOPS. Use reasonable force here, but remember... The HB Installation Tool is NOT meant to be over-tightened, as it will be the Final Tightening and Stretching of the HB TTY BOLT that will finally seat the HB all the way in! Once the HB is seated home... Remove the HB Installation Kit Bolt and Large Nut & Washer Combo Tool Set.
USE PLENTY OF BRAKE-KLEEN TO FLUSH OUT THE THREADED HOLE INSIDE OF THE NOSE OF THE CRANKSHAFT ALL THE WAY DOWN INSIDE TO REMOVE ANY AND ALL GREASE AND OIL. OTHERWISE...YOU MIGHT ACCIDENTALLY HYDRO-LOCK THE TTY BOLT AND FAIL TO THREAD THE BOLT INWARDS AS FAR INSIDE OF THE CRANKSHAFT AS POSSIBLE DURING THE NEXT PROCEDURES RESULTING IN HAVING A COMPLETELY LOOSE HB INSTALLATION:
(8) Remember, ,... from hereon, use ONLY an Impact Grade Metric Socket when installing the Crankshaft-HB Bolt ....But Do NOT Use an Impact Gun! Tighten the Bolt initially with a Reliable, Ratcheting 1/2" Torque Wrench to 110 Foot Pounds. Then, use a well-shaken and agitated White Paint Pen to make a GOOD Mark as a Straight Up & Down Vertical Line on the Lower Timing Cover Case just above the Crankshaft Bolt and run the Paint Pen on over the Hex Bolt, ending as a Straight Vertical Line on the bottom of the Timing Cover.
(9) Finally, use a Proper Fitting Metric Socket and ANOTHER Long Breaker Bar and Gradually Rotate that TTY Bolt Clockwise, 180 Degrees while watching as the Line on the Bolt traverses like the Minute Hand from the 12:00 O'clock Position right around to the 6:00 O'clock Position --Re-Aligning the White Painted Straight Line vertical once more ...at 'The Finish Line".
(10) Clean up the front areas of the Engine and related Pulleys, etc, with Brake-Kleen and remember to Install a Brand New Gates Serpentine Belt before trying to start the engine.
And...Brother... THAT should do it!
After you Secure the Holding Position on the Crankshaft by Passing a 15mm Deep Socket attached to Breaker Bar THROUGH the Center Hole in the Underside of the Crankcase-Oil-Pan and over one of the aligned Three Torque Converter-to Flex-Plate Bolts:
(1) Do NOT Forget to Install the Brand New Seal in the Timing Cover Case BEFORE ever touching that New Harmonic Balancer! After cleaning up the front of the Timing Cover Case around the HB Seal Opening with Brake-Kleen, use a Dollop of High Temp Permatex Black Silicone Sealant (courtesy @Mooseman's idea...) on the inner edges of the TC Seal insert hollow.
(2) Then, after placing a 4" Square section of 2"X4" Wood over the face of the HB Seal, Tap it in uniformly with a Hammer until the edges of the TC Seal Metal Lip are fairly flush with the outer surface of the Timing Cover.And just as he said before, "Put a SMALL amount of Grease on the inner edges of the PTFE TC Seal..."
DO NOT HIT THE OUTER SEAL FLANGE WITH TOO MUCH FORCE ...OR YOU MIGHT DISLODGE THE INTERNAL EXPANSION SPRING LOOSELY OUT ONTO THE OD OF CRANKSHAFT, DEFEATING WHAT MAKES THE SEAL WORK PROPERLY... AND YOU WILL NEVER KNOW THAT THIS HAPPENED ...UNTIL THE OIL STARTS POURING OUT ...ALL OVER AGAIN.
SINCE THIS WAS A REPLACEMENT HARMONIC BALANCER DONE BY SOMEONE ELSE BEFORE YOUR OWNERSHIP ...PERHAPS THIS IS WHAT STARTED THE WHOLE "HB OIL NOSE BLEED" PROBLEM IN THE FIRST PLACE. SO TAPPING THESE KINDS OF SEALS IN WITH 'JUST ENOUGH' ENERGY TO UNIFORMLY SEAT THEM HOME IS ALWAYS THE 'BEST PRACTICE'.
LOOK FOR A LOOSE TIMING COVER SEAL COMPRESSION SPRING THAT MIGHT JUST BE HANGING ONTO THE OUTER EDGES OF THE CRANKSHAFT (LIKE A CHARM BRACELET ON A DEBUTANTE'S WRIST) JUST AFTER YOU PULL THE TIMING COVER SEAL CASING OUT OF THE TIMING COVER.
(3) Okay... using the components in the HB Installation Tool Kit, thread the Large Nut onto the Lubricated Threaded Bolt FIRST, followed by installing the Dual Thrust Washers Combo and then run all three almost all the way up towards the underside of the HB Installation Tool Hex Bolt Head. Be advised that since there is NO SLOTTED WOODRUFF KEY in this Design...the HB can be mounted in any of its possible 360 Degrees of position. Therefore, FRICTION is paramount here.
MAKE CERTAIN TO WIPE THE FACE OF SPECIAL FRICTION WASHER ON THE INSIDE OF THE INNER HARMONIC BALANCER SNOUT AND THE NOSE OF THE CRANKSHAFT WHERE THEY MATE TOGETHER WITH A PAPER TOWEL SOAKED IN BRAKE-KLEEN. THIS WILL ENSURE THAT BOTH SURFACES ARE COMPLETELY FREE OF ANY OIL OR GREASE.
(4) Follow this by holding up the Harmonic Balancer CLOSE to the TC Seal Opening and while supporting the Weight of the HB from its underside with one hand, use the other one to carefully guide the HB Installation Tool Bolt smoothly through the Timing Cover Seal Opening and begin threading the Bolt into the Nose of the Crankshaft and as far down inside as it will go BY HAND and then make it EVER SO SLIGHTLY TIGHTER with a Wrench and then ...STOP. You DO NOT want to Over-Tighten that Bolt, or you will NOT be able to unwind it from inside of the Crankshaft!
(5) Next, begin to Hand Tighten down the Large Nut over the Two, Lubed Thrust Washers until you can feel things getting pretty snugged up as they make first contact with the outer surface of the Harmonic Balancer. BE VERY CAREFUL HERE NOT TO ALLOW THE HB TO WOBBLE AROUND TOO MUCH AND ACCIDENTALLY DISLODGE THE SPECIAL FRICTION WASHER.
(6) It follows on that while holding the HB Installation Hex Bolt Head with a Box End Wrench, use either an Open End Wrench or a Large Crescent Wrench to slowly turn down the Large Nut & Dual Thrust Washer Combo inwards in a Clockwise direction. Make certain to Square Up the HB to the Nose of the Crankshaft FIRST as you tighten down the Large Nut so that it properly glides onto the OD on the end of the Crankshaft.
(7) Keep turning the Large Nut until you can feel and see the HB passing through the TC Seal and follow its progress inwards ...until it STOPS. Use reasonable force here, but remember... The HB Installation Tool is NOT meant to be over-tightened, as it will be the Final Tightening and Stretching of the HB TTY BOLT that will finally seat the HB all the way in! Once the HB is seated home... Remove the HB Installation Kit Bolt and Large Nut & Washer Combo Tool Set.
USE PLENTY OF BRAKE-KLEEN TO FLUSH OUT THE THREADED HOLE INSIDE OF THE NOSE OF THE CRANKSHAFT ALL THE WAY DOWN INSIDE TO REMOVE ANY AND ALL GREASE AND OIL. OTHERWISE...YOU MIGHT ACCIDENTALLY HYDRO-LOCK THE TTY BOLT AND FAIL TO THREAD THE BOLT INWARDS AS FAR INSIDE OF THE CRANKSHAFT AS POSSIBLE DURING THE NEXT PROCEDURES RESULTING IN HAVING A COMPLETELY LOOSE HB INSTALLATION:
(8) Remember, ,... from hereon, use ONLY an Impact Grade Metric Socket when installing the Crankshaft-HB Bolt ....But Do NOT Use an Impact Gun! Tighten the Bolt initially with a Reliable, Ratcheting 1/2" Torque Wrench to 110 Foot Pounds. Then, use a well-shaken and agitated White Paint Pen to make a GOOD Mark as a Straight Up & Down Vertical Line on the Lower Timing Cover Case just above the Crankshaft Bolt and run the Paint Pen on over the Hex Bolt, ending as a Straight Vertical Line on the bottom of the Timing Cover.
(9) Finally, use a Proper Fitting Metric Socket and ANOTHER Long Breaker Bar and Gradually Rotate that TTY Bolt Clockwise, 180 Degrees while watching as the Line on the Bolt traverses like the Minute Hand from the 12:00 O'clock Position right around to the 6:00 O'clock Position --Re-Aligning the White Painted Straight Line vertical once more ...at 'The Finish Line".
(10) Clean up the front areas of the Engine and related Pulleys, etc, with Brake-Kleen and remember to Install a Brand New Gates Serpentine Belt before trying to start the engine.
And...Brother... THAT should do it!
Last edited:
djjunior305
Member
Thank you so much for the instructions God Bless you brother this is a weekend project I should be receiving the parts sometime next week I'll keep you guys posted thanks again and God Bless
Last edited:
NP... GMT Nation Members are always glad to Help...
I'm sorry I did not do this years ago, but I just now managed to convert an Old Album of Hands-On view 40 Images showing the use of these Specialty Harmonic Balancer Removal and Installation Tools in action. I manged to move these over from my defunct Photobucket Account into my active "Flickr-Bucket" account. These photos will provide intimate, edifying views of the job at hand:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/126111508@N07/albums/72157715088478403
I'm sorry I did not do this years ago, but I just now managed to convert an Old Album of Hands-On view 40 Images showing the use of these Specialty Harmonic Balancer Removal and Installation Tools in action. I manged to move these over from my defunct Photobucket Account into my active "Flickr-Bucket" account. These photos will provide intimate, edifying views of the job at hand:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/126111508@N07/albums/72157715088478403
Last edited:
djjunior305
Member
Awesome brother I really appreciate that your the man so basically I need two more tools the little tool to remove the HB or I really don't need it and the tool to install the HB thanks for your time and effort to help
Last edited:
djjunior305
Member
djjunior305
Member
That "WOW" Emoji was only meant to express my concern about the Harmonic Balancer coming off the Nose of the Crank right in the VOP's Face due to a Loose TTY Bolt. If you consider the other ambient engine noises...THAT Motor is actually idling in a fairly normal manner with no actual Rod Knock. You would be AMAZED at how badly these Inline Six Engines have been treated... and yet They Keep On Running.
I'll emphasize this idea once more... Keep The Faith, Brother!
You'd be a FOOL not to complete the HB Replacement Procedures at this point. At the very least...you will solve your two most immediate problems:
(1) Losing the Harmonic Balancer at Highway Speed and Lunching the Engine.
(2) Hemorrhaging Motor Oil out of the Timing Cover due to a Failed Oil Seal.
The GM Atlas Motor stands apart from practically ALL other Engine Platforms in existence...and in this case...you mind just wind up being Very Pleasantly Surprised with how this all turns out ...if you will only proceed with your original Plan. :>)
I'll emphasize this idea once more... Keep The Faith, Brother!
You'd be a FOOL not to complete the HB Replacement Procedures at this point. At the very least...you will solve your two most immediate problems:
(1) Losing the Harmonic Balancer at Highway Speed and Lunching the Engine.
(2) Hemorrhaging Motor Oil out of the Timing Cover due to a Failed Oil Seal.
The GM Atlas Motor stands apart from practically ALL other Engine Platforms in existence...and in this case...you mind just wind up being Very Pleasantly Surprised with how this all turns out ...if you will only proceed with your original Plan. :>)
djjunior305
Member
Thank you brother I have faith I will finish the job thanks again and God Bless I'll keep you updated
Please consider memorializing ALL of the Before, During and After Work involved here with Digital Images along with 360 Degree images of the TTY Bolt and the Old 2nd Gen Harmonic Balancer and then Post all of those images right back here so that future Members having this concern can benefit from all of your experience with performing this Rare and Important Repair...
Thanks In Advance!
Thanks In Advance!
Mooseman
Moderator
I think it's the bolt that's gone off-center from the TTY stretch. There's a ton of torque on these. In that video, the HB is running true, just the bolt that's doing the round-y-round but doesn't look loose. Or maybe it was reused.
djjunior305
Member
djjunior305
Member
That's exactly what my truck is doing and that's exactly what I think happened the bolt might have been reused but the seal is leaking oil so I'm just going to replace the three parts and I'm sorry what's tty I'm lost
TTY = Torque To Yield... An expression that defines the amount of Force imparted AFTER the Initial Torque gets Applied that makes the over-all Bolt Length ....S-T-R-E-T-C-H.... and STILL MAINTAIN A FLEXIBLE HOLD IN BETWEEN THE PART AND THE FASTENER AS THE THE OPERATIONAL TEMPERATURES RISE AND FALL .
Any Additional Twisting and Stretching of the TTY Bolt will exceed the Strength and Plasticity of the Steel Bolt Shank and Thread Lines ...and it will KEEP ON STRETCHING AND LOOSENING ITS HOLD RIGHT TO THE POINT OF ITS FAILURE.
This Fact should Discourage anyone from Attempting to Re-Use ALL TTY Bolts as Once they have been S-T-R-E-T-C-H-E-D to that Final MAX TTY Limit... The Bolt Length will NOT Contract Back to its Near Original Length. Beyond this point...the Metal Material compresses and squeezes down at an Atomic level where it finally crystallizes enough to simply... Break.
Don't Take MY Word For It...
Any Additional Twisting and Stretching of the TTY Bolt will exceed the Strength and Plasticity of the Steel Bolt Shank and Thread Lines ...and it will KEEP ON STRETCHING AND LOOSENING ITS HOLD RIGHT TO THE POINT OF ITS FAILURE.
This Fact should Discourage anyone from Attempting to Re-Use ALL TTY Bolts as Once they have been S-T-R-E-T-C-H-E-D to that Final MAX TTY Limit... The Bolt Length will NOT Contract Back to its Near Original Length. Beyond this point...the Metal Material compresses and squeezes down at an Atomic level where it finally crystallizes enough to simply... Break.
Don't Take MY Word For It...
Last edited:
djjunior305
Member
I forgot to mention this...
After you remove the Old TTY Crankshaft-Harmonic Balancer Bolt... if it looks substantially SHORTER than the Brand New TTY Bolt... Check the End of the Bolt to ensure that there has NOT been a Broken-Off Bolt Section left behind DEEP INSIDE of the Nose of the Crankshaft. It this turns out to be the case... DO NOT DESPAIR! We'll Cross THAT Bridge ... IF.... We Get To It.
Even if the Old TTY Bolt emerges ...S-T-E-T-C-H-E-D ...but appears undamaged, you'll STILL want to confirm that the Replacement of the 2nd Gen HB from a Prior Repair Did NOT involve Cross-Threading in the OEM Used TTY Bolt.
This can happen because, not only does the over-all length of the Bolt endure this Stretching....but the DISTANCE between the individual Thread Lines can also be deformed.
This is IMPORTANT:
If the Old TTY Bolt was re-introduced inside the Crankshaft and it got CROSS THREADED...it could affect the Installation of the Brand New TTY Bolt. The way to Test this situation would be to clean out the Crankshaft Hollow and Threaded Interior with Brake-Kleen.
After that you should attempt to Thread In the New TTY Bolt with your Fingers Only for at LEAST Five Thread Lines, just to get a feel for how Easy or Hard that can be done.
If you encounter a High Resistance, then it becomes necessary to Chase the Crankshaft Inner Bolt Threads with an appropriate LONG SHANK BOTTOMING TAP before Re-Installing the Harmonic Balancer and applying the 110 Foot Pounds of Torque Plus the 180 Degrees of TTY Force required on the TTY Bolt afterwards.
If you happen to notice that a brittle, coiled length of Shiny Metal comes out WITH the removal of the Old TTY Bolt... then it will be likely to require a TIME-SERT Crankshaft Insert Kit to repair any Damaged cut threads inside of the Hollow Crankshaft.
But again... Let's Hope that we do NOT need to do this job as well...and cross THAT Bridge only if we come to it.
After you remove the Old TTY Crankshaft-Harmonic Balancer Bolt... if it looks substantially SHORTER than the Brand New TTY Bolt... Check the End of the Bolt to ensure that there has NOT been a Broken-Off Bolt Section left behind DEEP INSIDE of the Nose of the Crankshaft. It this turns out to be the case... DO NOT DESPAIR! We'll Cross THAT Bridge ... IF.... We Get To It.
Even if the Old TTY Bolt emerges ...S-T-E-T-C-H-E-D ...but appears undamaged, you'll STILL want to confirm that the Replacement of the 2nd Gen HB from a Prior Repair Did NOT involve Cross-Threading in the OEM Used TTY Bolt.
This can happen because, not only does the over-all length of the Bolt endure this Stretching....but the DISTANCE between the individual Thread Lines can also be deformed.
This is IMPORTANT:
If the Old TTY Bolt was re-introduced inside the Crankshaft and it got CROSS THREADED...it could affect the Installation of the Brand New TTY Bolt. The way to Test this situation would be to clean out the Crankshaft Hollow and Threaded Interior with Brake-Kleen.
After that you should attempt to Thread In the New TTY Bolt with your Fingers Only for at LEAST Five Thread Lines, just to get a feel for how Easy or Hard that can be done.
If you encounter a High Resistance, then it becomes necessary to Chase the Crankshaft Inner Bolt Threads with an appropriate LONG SHANK BOTTOMING TAP before Re-Installing the Harmonic Balancer and applying the 110 Foot Pounds of Torque Plus the 180 Degrees of TTY Force required on the TTY Bolt afterwards.
If you happen to notice that a brittle, coiled length of Shiny Metal comes out WITH the removal of the Old TTY Bolt... then it will be likely to require a TIME-SERT Crankshaft Insert Kit to repair any Damaged cut threads inside of the Hollow Crankshaft.
But again... Let's Hope that we do NOT need to do this job as well...and cross THAT Bridge only if we come to it.
Last edited:
djjunior305
Member
Oh lord I'm hoping for the best thanks for that information brother