PCMforLess Terrible Experience

[sevendj]

I'll try to make this short.

After an efan upgrade (not tune, that was done before), my PCM fan codes were never deleted properly (due to an alleged software "bug"). Company said: send back, but we will only reimburse $10-15 on ground shipping (I paid $70 for UPS air to get my daily driving car back on the road immediately in the first place). Their shipping takes an entire extra week, screwing me over for my Memorial day plans...

OK, not their fault, I say to myself... Then I see: Memorial day sale?! $50 off?! Are you serious? They would only pay 10-15 shipping when the very next week they take off $50?

So I write to them expressing my disdain for their choice of shipping and complete failure to compensate me for any kind of inconvenience of preventing my wife and I from having to share two cars for an entire week (we work 30 miles apart btw).

Kelly's response? "We apologize. The shipping should have made it sooner." Absolutely no mention of the $50 off that I should have received if I had waited out two weeks.

The fact is:

This is not the first time that PCMforLess has done this (see the other thread where the member claims that PCMforLess admitted they forgot http://trailvoy.com/f25/installed-electric-fan-have-code-now-3403/ ).

Let's not get into how loud these fans are.... now that I have an installed kit, my next mod will have to be finding quieter fans...

I'm extremely disappointed, not just with the product, but with the customer service.

I'm sad to say that I will not be dealing with this company again. I only hope that you don't go through what I did.

 

[marshall@pcm]

This reply is from Kelly, since I am the one you were dealing with.

As I explained to you, yes, there is a bug in the software where it doesn't always save disabled DTC's. I believe this is what happened here. If I had forgotten it, I would have admitted it, just like I did to the other person that you mentioned. No shame in my game if I'm wrong I will be the first person to tell you that.

Secondly, your truncated version of my email gives the impression I am blowing you off which I am not. I would never send someone a two sentence reply like that.

All of your emails I have replied to in a timely fashion, professionally. As soon as you let me know the code popped up I was right there offering to fix it. I told you that I would ship it back UPS ground. That was not a surprise to you. In situations like this we ship back ground or USPS priority. The customer is always welcome to pay the difference between second day/next day and ground to speed up shipping.

The very day the PCM arrived I fixed and shipped it back out.

I am truly sorry that this has inconvenienced you. I have told you that via email several times. I understand that you are upset but at this point there is nothing more I can do. Once the package leaves my hands it is up to UPS and I cannot make it go any faster.

The SPAL fans are loud, as they are very powerful. This is mentioned in our description on the website.

 

[sevendj]

This reply is from Kelly, since I am the one you were dealing with.

As I explained to you, yes, there is a bug in the software where it doesn't always save disabled DTC's. I believe this is what happened here. If I had forgotten it, I would have admitted it, just like I did to the other person that you mentioned. No shame in my game if I'm wrong I will be the first person to tell you that.

Secondly, your truncated version of my email gives the impression I am blowing you off which I am not. I would never send someone a two sentence reply like that.
.

Your unaltered email is as follows:

Hi Matt,

I am sorry that you did not receive the shipment on time, I really am, as we never mean to inconvenience anyone. Ground should have put it there on time and that is what we cover in situations like this, if the customer wants they can always cover the difference between ground and two day or next day/etc. I reflashed it the same day I received it and shipped it ground just as we had discussed via email. I apologize for any inconvenience this has caused you and your wife.

Thank you,

Kelly
PCMforless of NC, INC


A very nicely worded apology, I would admit. But ultimately worthless for my inconvenience.

I will take a sound level meter reading of the fan level. That's worth more than the phrase "loud."

 

[blazinlow89]

Sorry to hear about that happening.

You should be happy they offered anything towards return shipping, alot of companies I have dealt with wont even offer that. As for the sale, you could have asked if they might have been offering a sale for the holiday, as they do with most. Granted I can understand wanting to get stuff straight so the truck will run properly, it is not up to them to expedite stuff without notice. You could have said that you needed it back asap and offered to cover some of the faster shipping price. IF they cover NDA both ways that could be anywhere from $100-$200 depending on location, that would certainly result in a loss for the company. Also remember that UPS has NDA saver which is NDA but PM delivery, it is about $20-$40 depending on package size.

I am not trying to dig into you or anything like that, but maybe giving them a call and explaining everything might result in a different outcome. It is always worth a try.

As for sound e-fans are never quite, usually more noise than the clutch fans most of us have.

I have dealt with issues with alot of companies and the best way to get any good outcome is to just talk to them. Dont demand things it would just make you look like an asshole. Also keep in mind PCMforless is a small business sometimes issues happen, but sometimes you just need to call and ask.

 

[ScarabEpic22]

Just vouching for the efans noise, my LS1 fans are pretty dang loud compared to the factory setup. Even compared to my dads A6 or moms Q5, they're LOUD. That said, I like the extra mpg and quicker revving for now.

Eventually I want to buy some Spal fans, if you dont like how loud they are let me know and I might be willing to purchase them from you.

 

[Lima Tango]

I'm surprised - I got a tune with which I was admittedly underimpressed but overall generally happy except I was displeased with the harsh 1-2 shift with my chosen Shift Level 2 setting. They were by no means obligated to do so, but they instantly offered to re-flash it for free to a Shift Level 1 or 0 or put it entirely back to stock even though they had given me exactly what I asked for. I can't imagine if they were willing to do that for me on something that was entirely my own fault, that they wouldn't be more than willing to fix any mistake or fault of theirs.

It's impossible to make every customer happy, especially in an online shopping environment like this, because everybody has different expectations of what the word "loud" means for an e-fan or whatever other written description. Any online shopper has to accept some degree of risk of the unknown given the venue; if you can't, than you should stick to shopping in person entirely at brick and mortor type businesses. From your statement it really seems like they did more than they were obligated to in order to try to take care of you. Is there any online business that would instantly overnight a replacement of a product for free, regardless of fault?

 

[sevendj]

I am not trying to dig into you or anything like that, but maybe giving them a call and explaining everything might result in a different outcome. It is always worth a try.
... but sometimes you just need to call and ask.

I admit I did not call. (I wear hearing aids and default to email for most communication)

But I absolutely discussed this matter with them, in order to see if they would attempt to appease my disdain. I do not think it is outrageous to think that they would offer $50 off when the very next week they were having a sale - they never told me this. I was a tad bit upset when I realized what they left out.

I did not ask "when are you having a sale" since I needed my fan changed immediately.

But I just wanted to get this out there, that this shit happens with them, and I'm not the first.

That being said, their kit is phenomenally easy to install and I do appreciate the ease of DIY. I just am surprised at the customer service.

 

[sevendj]

Is there any online business that would instantly overnight a replacement of a product for free, regardless of fault?

Yes. Online hearing aid sales, which we frown upon in my profession.

Nearly every Amazon order that's ever been screwed up (these are often small businesses advertising on Amazon).

...and Newegg.com.

 

[HARDTRAILZ]

I broke the tabs on my pcm and they retuned a different one as soon as I communicated with them and I had the new pcm at my house 18 hours after they tuned the new one. I did have to pay for the new one vs sending my in, but was truly impressed with the quickness of the shipping. They must have got it straight to UPS.

 

[Denali n DOO]

Maybe the thread should have been called "I made a bad choice and bought LOUD e fans". Sounds like your trying to bash the company because your not happy with the product you chose. From what I'm reading I would have to say that if I ever decide on a tune or e fans that I would have NO ISSUES choosing the services of PCMforless. Thanks for letting us know that PCMforless will do what they can to satisfy thier customers!!

 

[blazinlow89]

Yes. Online hearing aid sales, which we frown upon in my profession.

Nearly every Amazon order that's ever been screwed up (these are often small businesses advertising on Amazon).

...and Newegg.com.

While some businesses do this, keep in mind the price you had paid to overnight the PCM to them. Like I said you could have asked for them to expedite and cover the cost to get it back sooner, even 2 day or 3 day express would only be like $10-$20. Unfortunately once UPS has it, it is out of their hands. It depends on the shipper. I have had my issues with UPS things that should be here withing 1 day have taken 4. Even NC to MA should only be 3 days with ground. We had UPS run over a package with a forklift, it was rear control arms for the new mustangs. We had shipped 75 pieces to get anodized in NC, each set cost us about $150 to manufacture, and they offered us $2000 to cover expenses. Needless to say we committed to fedex after this.

Ugh, Newegg is a nightmare, and Amazon as long as it is Amazon market place is nice, when you get into the people advertising it can become a headache.

It seems like you had the perfect storm of issues with this. It is a difficult situation, but I would say pcmforless has always done an adequate job of trying to fix issues for customers.

 

[sevendj]

Maybe the thread should have been called "I made a bad choice and bought LOUD e fans". Sounds like your trying to bash the company because your not happy with the product you chose. From what I'm reading I would have to say that if I ever decide on a tune or e fans that I would have NO ISSUES choosing the services of PCMforless. Thanks for letting us know that PCMforless will do what they can to satisfy thier customers!!

Not exactly. That's a small part of my issue.

My issue is with the customer service that I received.

I'm sure that by the sound of it that you will be more satisfied than I was.

It seems like you had the perfect storm of issues with this. It is a difficult situation, but I would say pcmforless has always done an adequate job of trying to fix issues for customers.

It really was the perfect storm.

But revenue is revenue for the company, even for little ones, and they wanted to squeeze it all out of me regardless of an impending sale. My issue would have been solved if they comped me extra shipping. Since they're losing $50 on every fan this weekend, they could have done that easily.

 

[blazinlow89]

It really was the perfect storm.

But revenue is revenue for the company, even for little ones, and they wanted to squeeze it all out of me regardless of an impending sale. My issue would have been solved if they comped me extra shipping. Since they're losing $50 on every fan this weekend, they could have done that easily.

I am sure the $50 they are taking off is either close to if not all of the profit. The real reason sales are created is it gets new customers in the door, for some people either they are on the fence about doing the PCM flash, and the additional $50 off is a nice way to get them to go for it. At the same extent, it also creates a customer base, one happy customer leads to another. AS well as the possibility of future services or products purchased by the new customers. They are in no way obligated to compensate for a coming sale, let alone expedited shipping.

 

[Bartonmd]

So how far out should they go with sales?

We're going to have a sale tomorrow, and even though you need it now, and are ordering it now, we'll give you the $50 off.
We're going to have a sale next week, and even though you need it now, and are ordering it now, we'll give you the $50 off.
We're going to have a sale next month, and even though you need it now, and are ordering it now, we'll give you the $50 off.
We're going to have a sale in 2 months, and even though you need it now, and are ordering it now, we'll give you the $50 off.
We're going to have a sale in a year, and even though you need it now, and are ordering it now, we'll give you the $50 off.

IMO, you order on the day there's a sale, great... You don't order on the day there's a sale, you don't get the sale price... That's they they're called "sales" not "the everyday price."

I understand you're upset, but this thread is making you look... well... anyway...

Mike

 

[sevendj]

So how far out should they go with sales?

We're going to have a sale tomorrow, and even though you need it now, and are ordering it now, we'll give you the $50 off.
We're going to have a sale next week, and even though you need it now, and are ordering it now, we'll give you the $50 off.
We're going to have a sale next month, and even though you need it now, and are ordering it now, we'll give you the $50 off.
We're going to have a sale in 2 months, and even though you need it now, and are ordering it now, we'll give you the $50 off.
We're going to have a sale in a year, and even though you need it now, and are ordering it now, we'll give you the $50 off.

IMO, you order on the day there's a sale, great... You don't order on the day there's a sale, you don't get the sale price... That's they they're called "sales" not "the everyday price."

I understand you're upset, but this thread is making you look... well... anyway...

Mike

Nah, that's not at all what I'm saying.

Revenue being revenue, it would still be easy for them to upgrade shipping if it's this easy for them to take $50 off.

I know for a fact that they have holiday sales. This wasn't my first time dealing with them.

I absolutely wrote this knowing that some people would call me a bitch. I just want people to realize who they're dealing with.

 

[tbuckalew14]

While I have not had any issues with PCM4Less...they should have offered something more than just covering ground shipping as it was their fault from the beginning. When my work makes an error, we pay ground shipping and usually credit them something towards their next purchase for the hassle.

 

[Uncle Blazer]

 

[blazinlow89]

While I have not had any issues with PCM4Less...they should have offered something more than just covering ground shipping as it was their fault from the beginning. When my work makes an error, we pay ground shipping and usually credit them something towards their next purchase for the hassle.

That to me is more than most places would do and should suffice. If it was needed faster than that would have been up for discussion. I would say 3 day would have been more appropriate for the shipping method.

 

[Sparky]

The fans being loud doesn't surprise me. Have any idea the sheer amount of airflow needed? Most efans on vehicles are rather loud on high speed.

I recommend NOT trying to put a quieter fan on there as you risk overheating if you do so. You need that airflow.

 

[sevendj]

While I have not had any issues with PCM4Less...they should have offered something more than just covering ground shipping as it was their fault from the beginning. When my work makes an error, we pay ground shipping and usually credit them something towards their next purchase for the hassle.

This is exactly my point and I'm sorry if my original post led people another way. I don't give a crap about any kind of sale. I used the sale to prove how this company had easy capability of losing $50 in revenue. This could have just as easily allowed them to upgrade my shipping, rather than offer to have me pay the difference.

Some people report a good experience with them. Mine was terrible.

 

[Voymom]

I have not ordered from PCMforless YET as I do plan on it. But just keep in mind NOT everyone is the same, so their opinions of products will be different. Most of the time businesses do not even offer to pay ANY of the shipping when a product needs to be returned for whatever reason so just be grateful that they offered something. Seeing as PCMforless is a member here on the forum one of two things could have been done to assure your happiness with their product. 1: Contacting them through the forum asking as many questions about the product you are interested in, or contacting them via their website asking questions about the item your interested in. Research, Research, Research. I don't understand sometimes how some people will search months and even years for the perfect vehicle, but don't ever take any account for researching items or products that they put in that said vehicle. 2: You could have posted on here asking for opinions from other customers about similar products.

It does state that the fans are loud on the product description(i have looked it over time and time again) But aside from the noisy fans, I would rather deal with that than having to replace the fan clutch and water pump every couple of months, as the repair costs can add up quickly.

As I see it, you should have taken in account that you had plans for memorial weekend BEFORE you shipped out anything. Stuff like this takes time, and if you don't have the time, contact someone and see if a later date can be setup to send your product out for repairs....say like AFTER the holiday?

You can't just go around blaming other people for your own mistakes, or pointing the finger at someone who has NOTHING to do with A: The fact that it's a holiday, B: Ground shipping(Which everyone knows it takes forever) and c: Almost everyone who has been here a while knows that PCMforless just about ALWAYS has holiday specials, for ALMOST all holiday's. It's mentioned on the site everywhere if you just search the forums. Like I said I have not yet ordered from them, but I have taken the time to know the basics. I have ordered stuff online before, and know that if it's ground shipping, it can take anywhere from 5 to 10 business days, longer when holiday's are around the corner. And knowing the e fans description says that they are loud....expect them to be deafening, so when you do get them....your not disappointed. I always expect the worse but hope for the best, that way I don't get my panties all twisted up.

Could this have been prevented? Yes, it very well could have. YOU could have prevented it. It's not your fault that a bug screwed up the codes for the fans. BUT it's not PCMforless' fault that it's a holiday, or that you didn't expedite the shipping, which you very well could have. Be grateful that PCMforless even offered to fix the bug in the first place, they could have just left you hanging, or spending a SHIT ton of money having it programmed somewhere else, costing you WAY more than that $70 shipping...well minus 10-15 bucks that you get reimbursed.

 

[kardain]

Just vouching for the efans noise, my LS1 fans are pretty dang loud compared to the factory setup. Even compared to my dads A6 or moms Q5, they're LOUD. That said, I like the extra mpg and quicker revving for now.

Eventually I want to buy some Spal fans, if you dont like how loud they are let me know and I might be willing to purchase them from you.

I also have dual spals in my Sunfire (SPAL Part Number: 30101500) and can say first hand they are quite loud, to the point where I can hear them over the v6 with practically straight pipe exhaust (glasspack and free flow muffler to kill the rasp).... Even running just one fan, can still hear noise.

However, they cool very well so it is a fair trade off. And no Erik, you can't have mine

 

[jimmyjam]

I'd suggest you find another company that supports the 4200 I6 and use them...

Oh that's right, there are none

 

[gsf1200m]

My efan code was also "accidentally left on" which is very annoying. I have to send it back in, and they will cover the shipping. I am not too happy, but whatever. I do not have any experience with efans, but this one is louder than I was expecting, but I also do not see it as a problem for me. The kit was very easy to install and so far the benefits from it seem sweet. I will add that a corner of the metal fan mount was all bent up in shipping somehow. I just hammered it back and didn't say anything about it, but I would expect for $400 some people would expect better packaging to get the part in perfect condition.

 

[Boricua SS]

this whole thread is the exact reason why some people should visit a store in person rather then ordering online... you take that risk when you order online, and hope to not get burned... IMO, you did not get burned, and they delt with your situation as best as they could.. sometimes i buy my products from a store so i can have the person to person interaction, and not worry about shipping, and sometimes i go online...

i have bought from pcmforless in the past, and they have forgotten things in my order... but did i expect them overnight the forgotten product? no... for this reason is why you should deal with someone at a store instead of online if thats the case for you... but it was taken care of immediately for me, and they will continue to have my business...

i am sorry to hear that your experience isnt what you expected, but as Mike said, your logic doesnt make sense... just because theyre having a sale now, doesnt mean you get the discount on anything before the sale... youre saying its not about that.. its about the $50 that they make.. how do they make any money on shipping or not shipping an item... the $70 you spent to have it overnighted didnt go into PCM's bank.. it went to whoever shipped it.. so why do you expect them to overnight something to you for them to lose even more money after the extra $15 theyre spending to have it shipped back to them only for them to have it shipped backed to you?? so another $15 to get it back to you, now totaling $30 out of their pocket to help you out.. so how is that not helping?? if your vehicle was going to be down due to the upgrades... maybe a plan shouldve been in place "just in case" something like this happened, and your ride was inoperable... like when i was installed my e-fans, and we punched a hole in the radiator on a saturday night... the truck had to sit until monday morning... but i had another car to drive, and we had a plan, "just in case" something happened, either on our end, or theirs... if it was my only vehicle.. i wouldnt of modded it...

and like Voymom said.. its listed in their description and in numerous threads on plenty of forums about the noise of the fans.. i know i research and reasearch and reasearch before i pull the trigger on any product i buy... so why the issue there?

again, im sorry to hear of your troubles, and hopefully things work out for you.. but your starting a thread on a forum where PCMforLESS is more then 99.9% recommended and 99.9% of the people that purchase from them have had A+ experiences... so of course there were going to be a lot of mixed feelings here..

 

[sevendj]

My efan code was also "accidentally left on" which is very annoying. I have to send it back in, and they will cover the shipping. I am not too happy, but whatever. I do not have any experience with efans, but this one is louder than I was expecting, but I also do not see it as a problem for me. The kit was very easy to install and so far the benefits from it seem sweet. I will add that a corner of the metal fan mount was all bent up in shipping somehow. I just hammered it back and didn't say anything about it, but I would expect for $400 some people would expect better packaging to get the part in perfect condition.

Thank you for sharing. I shared my experience to let people know that A. I was surprised at how loud the fan was (loudness is a relative term). B. Shipping will be ground, which I find unacceptable.

Some people find it acceptable. Everyone has their own prerogative.

However, some people who actually own/run business realize that in order to retain customers they must make them satisfied customers. Losing a car for another week because of someone else's mistake was unacceptable to me. I spoke to them in person and felt that they did nothing to turn this into a satisfactory situation. Forcing me to pay for upgraded shipping was just not going to cut it.

That being said, I'm sure you will be happy with your fan. They did indeed put together a good product.

... so of course there were going to be a lot of mixed feelings here..

I'm sorry that I led people to believe that I wanted a refund. I never asked for that.

I used the sale as a means of showing how they would not lose any more revenue than the actual sale price by offering upgraded shipping.

But you're exactly right on online vs. in person.

...and I did not get burned on the product. I got burned on the fact that I lost a car for another week. Things absolutely have "worked out." My car is still in the garage and my PCM is being delivered tomorrow.

I'd suggest you find another company that supports the 4200 I6 and use them...

Oh that's right, there are none

I don't need to. But immature comments are more welcome at trailvoy, as far as I can remember.

I also have dual spals in my Sunfire (SPAL Part Number: 30101500) and can say first hand they are quite loud, to the point where I can hear them over the v6 with practically straight pipe exhaust (glasspack and free flow muffler to kill the rasp).... Even running just one fan, can still hear noise.

However, they cool very well so it is a fair trade off. And no Erik, you can't have mine

Very helpful to hear these comments. Thank you. Apparently it's impossible to achieve a quiet fan with these setups.

You can't just go around blaming other people for your own mistakes, or pointing the finger at someone who has NOTHING to do with A: The fact that it's a holiday, B: Ground shipping(Which everyone knows it takes forever) and c: Almost everyone who has been here a while knows that PCMforless just about ALWAYS has holiday specials, for ALMOST all holiday's.

FYI - I got my first tune from PCMforLess 2 years ago and am well aware of their sales and how they operate. My issue is not exactly with the fan. I knew it was going to be louder, but consider the volume to be louder than expected. I'd call that a semantic misunderstanding. I'll actually measure the dBA of the fan once I have the PCM back again.

But as for mistakes... you would call it my mistake that they screwed up and didn't delete my fan codes the first time around? I fully expected a quicker turnaround but was ensured by the company that it would come back by Friday (which it did) - so no "mistake" there. I'm going to NYC tomorrow.

My point is, when this company screwed up my order, they chose to remedy the situation by sending UPS ground and not upgrade shipping (unless I paid for it myself - and I'm not paying anymore for this product). My point of "theres a sale coming up" is to demonstrate that they would suffer little loss of revenue. I only care about getting my car back on the road, asap, not a sale.

When my company screws up, we make sure that WE fix this problem IMMEDIATELY - that includes our choice of shipping. It's called "the cost of doing business". The fact is, I was out of a car for another week. That was not my fault. It never was and never could have been.

I wrote this as a word of caution to those who may find themselves in the same shoes as me. Just don't expect your car for another week if they screw up. That's all. It has already obtained many views and many people have responded for and against my decisions.

As for you, I would absolutely recommend a tune, after intake and fan. Wherever you want to get it is your choice and I am absolutely not trying to convince people not to use this company (which I never said). Like I said, in this case, I feel that this company refuses to go out of their way to fix their mistakes. So I would pray that they get it right the first time.

 

[Boricua SS]

I'm sorry that I led people to believe that I wanted a refund. I never asked for that.

I used the sale as a means of showing how they would not lose any more revenue than the actual sale price by offering upgraded shipping.

But you're exactly right on online vs. in person.

...and I did not get burned on the product. I got burned on the fact that I lost a car for another week. Things absolutely have "worked out." My car is still in the garage and my PCM is being delivered tomorrow.

well heres to getting your vehicle back on the road and better buying experiences in the future

 

[Voymom]

FYI - I got my first tune from PCMforLess 2 years ago and am well aware of their sales and how they operate. My issue is not exactly with the fan. I knew it was going to be louder, but consider the volume to be louder than expected. I'd call that a semantic misunderstanding. I'll actually measure the dBA of the fan once I have the PCM back again.

But as for mistakes... you would call it my mistake that they screwed up and didn't delete my fan codes the first time around? I fully expected a quicker turnaround but was ensured by the company that it would come back by Friday (which it did) - so no "mistake" there. I'm going to NYC tomorrow.

My point is, when this company screwed up my order, they chose to remedy the situation by sending UPS ground and not upgrade shipping (unless I paid for it myself - and I'm not paying anymore for this product). My point of "theres a sale coming up" is to demonstrate that they would suffer little loss of revenue. I only care about getting my car back on the road, asap, not a sale.

When my company screws up, we make sure that WE fix this problem IMMEDIATELY - that includes our choice of shipping. It's called "the cost of doing business". The fact is, I was out of a car for another week. That was not my fault. It never was and never could have been.

I wrote this as a word of caution to those who may find themselves in the same shoes as me. Just don't expect your car for another week if they screw up. That's all. It has already obtained many views and many people have responded for and against my decisions.

As for you, I would absolutely recommend a tune, after intake and fan. Wherever you want to get it is your choice and I am absolutely not trying to convince people not to use this company (which I never said). Like I said, in this case, I feel that this company refuses to go out of their way to fix their mistakes. So I would pray that they get it right the first time.

If you are aware of their services and how they operate, you have NO right to sit here and complain then. If you already ordered a tune which is shipped ground, and you find ground shipping unacceptable, why order from them again? This is where I feel the fault lies with you.

And as far as services working the first time around, new things take time to develop in order for them to be "bug" free. Even then things can still go wrong.
And with upgrading the shipping, that is on you...just like with any company, ebay, amazon, anything online YOU have to pay for upgraded shipping. I have not yet purchased something that paid for upgraded shipping for me. That is a given.

And they DID fix the problem immediately. They repaired the code issues the same day they received your product, and then they shipped it out.

As far as screwing ourselves out of a car for a week, there is the option of keeping the stock PCM, yeah it's the same issue with the codes and what not but I don't recall these codes actually being a mechanical problem, but more of a pain in the rear. But I could be wrong on that as well(i'm still doing my research on e fans). If it doesn't cause a mechanical issue, I would have put my stock PCM in and drove it like that until my updated product came in the mail. Then I wouldn't need to worry about being without a truck. I do understand your frustration, but I don't have pity on people who put themselves in these situations to begin with. I do hope in the long run everything works out for you.

 

[sevendj]

If you are aware of their services and how they operate, you have NO right to sit here and complain then. If you already ordered a tune which is shipped ground, and you find ground shipping unacceptable, why order from them again? This is where I feel the fault lies with you.

I did find the ground shipping unacceptable, which is why I paid for UPS air the second time around. I even included a prepaid return shipping label for UPS air in order to avoid their shipping. Please don't jump to conclusions when you don't have all of the facts.

I also didn't realize that when they screwed up, they took so long to turn the product around back to you. I've used them once, and they did not mess up before. I just wasn't going to pay more for product and for their mistake after the first time I sent it.

I'm not really here to entertain a public debate over choices. If you really want to continue an argument, let's make it private.

 

[kardain]

I'm sure it is possible to achieve a quiet setup with SPAL fans, the difference in my case is that I specifically chose these fans for the intended purpose knowing full well before hand that they were not quiet. Contacting SPAL directly may be a good course if the noise you encounter is a bother. They should be able to cross match a suitable replacement with less noise.

Also, my fan install was not without problems. Griffin messed up the mount brackets on the radiator and used mount points for 10" fans instead of 11"

For the record, I never purchased from P4L before, just sharing experience.

 

[Voymom]

I did find the ground shipping unacceptable, which is why I paid for UPS air the second time around. I even included a prepaid return shipping label for UPS air in order to avoid their shipping. Please don't jump to conclusions when you don't have all of the facts.

I also didn't realize that when they screwed up, they took so long to turn the product around back to you. I've used them once, and they did not mess up before. I just wasn't going to pay more for product and for their mistake after the first time I sent it.

I'm not really here to entertain a public debate over choices. If you really want to continue an argument, let's make it private.

Exactly!! We don't have all the facts...which is why I feel this thread is useless to begin with. We can only go off what you say, and when you post a thread in an open forum, and don't like what people have to say, then don't post it to begin with.

There I'm done.

 

[sevendj]

Exactly!! We don't have all the facts...which is why I feel this thread is useless to begin with. We can only go off what you say, and when you post a thread in an open forum, and don't like what people have to say, then don't post it to begin with.

There I'm done.

You actually did have that fact. I said how much I paid and how I shipped. I also said that I was not comfortable paying for more shipping when it's someone else's mistake. I get the same product, yet I pay more than before? The thing I am trying to get across, is that this company does not go out of their way to fix their mistakes. Stock PCM was never an option, unless you want to pay.

I am certainly OK keeping it public. I just felt that if I'm going to go back and forth with one person when they are not reading what I am writing, then we can go private. But to each his/her own. You're the only one who has written an essay in order to lecture me. How voy"mom" of you.

 

[mike_k]

I will take a sound level meter reading of the fan level. That's worth more than the phrase "loud."

You should do this. I want to know if they will be louder than the one i put in my civic

 

[Voymom]

You actually did have that fact. I said how much I paid and how I shipped. I also said that I was not comfortable paying for more shipping. The thing I am trying to get across, is that this company does not go out of their way to fix their mistakes.

I am certainly OK keeping it public. I just felt that if I'm going to go back and forth with one person when they are not reading what I am writing, then we can go private. But to each his/her own.

You just said for me not to jump to conclusions because I didn't have all the facts.....

And now your saying I had all the facts

I'm confused.

I'm not trying to pick a fight, but I don't want other new members coming here NOT getting all the facts and being scared away from something that could be used to their benefit. I know you said your not trying to tell people not to buy their products, but when you post such negativity, which you do have the right to, without pointing out that you are also at fault(it takes 2 to tango) it could scare others away from it all together.

IF your going to post something like this here, I feel that EVERYTHING should be laid out in front of us, with no hidden gimmicks or information. Like where you only posted 1 sentence out of the whole e-mail they sent you...it's only telling your side of the story, not the entire story.

I have the right to my opinions as do you, I post my opinions and I call it exactly as I see it. I just want other readers of this thread to be able to look at your original post, and others posts and draw their own conclusions about the product.

No one on the forum read all your e-mail back and forth, we can't read your mind, and so forth.....and making sure when someone is making a fuss about something, trying to get the facts is crucial. But doesn't always work either. I could sit here too and complain about how my dealership screwed me over by selling me a lemon, but I don't because I WAS THE ONE who after all purchased the vehicle.

People who feel they were victims of something can rant all they want, but it's their own fault that they allowed themselves to be a victim by purchasing something that wasn't what they thought it was. I don't think PCMforless victimized you. They give everyone the same options. Feeling that you should have special treatment because of an issue with their product would hurt their revenue in the long run, because when one person gets special treatment....everyone wants special treatment.

 

[06Envoy]

I too had issues with my PCM4Less spal efan kit, however my personal experience with Kelly was 180 degrees the opposite.
See my THREAD HERE.
Kelly did everything that she could to fix the problem in a timely and prompt fashion. Yes, once when I called she was out grocery shopping, but that's called life.

In the end the customer service that I recieved was awesome, and I really couldn't have asked for it to be any better.

The kit was easy to install.
If you ask Harmless, he thinks with both fans running its loud, but I can barely hear it once inside the cab.
His answer was to crank up the tunes!
I guess thats the price you pay for maximum airflow. I showed Stef that the fans could suck in my T-shirt when standing in front of the bumper.



I'm sorry to hear about your experience with them.
Should you decide to sell, there will be a lineup of buyers I think.

 

[sevendj]

I'm not trying to pick a fight

I didn't think you were really done, and yes you are absolutely trying to engage in debate. Those who will actually read the thread through will realize that:

A. I was upset about the fact that I would have to pay out of my own pocket to receive the product that I paid for in what I consider a timely fashion. I refused to pay any more shipping charges for someone else's mistake.

B. This is not an isolated incident for PCMForLess. Several members have posted their experiences. One actually had Kelly pay for rush shipping. (the option which was NEVER given to me) EDIT, this member paid for upgraded shipping.

C. I was surprised by how loud the fan was. I understood that it was to be louder than stock, but you will notice the same thing when you get one. Whether or not you feel that this intensity is excessive is your point-of-view.

D. I could care less about the sale. I used the sale situation as a means of showing how a small business can afford the loss of revenue by upgrading shipping on their own dime.

That being said, it has been very helpful hearing other peoples' stories - in particular, realizing that this is a chronic issue with PCMforLess. I can only hope that they got it right the second time around. I'm sure there will be those who will hope otherwise.

 

[06Envoy]

Just to provide clarification;

The issue with my Efan kit was not with the kit or the tune. My specific issue was with the EFILive Autocal which refused to communicate with the T42. So as it was suggested by Kelly, I purchased the HPTuners MPVI upgrade which did communicate with the T42 so I could install the efan patch.
My efan kit was purchased after I bought the tune, so an efan patch was required to be installed, unfortunately the EFI Live product has/had issues.
The rushed shipping was an option that I asked and paid for.

I had no issues with paying for the HPT upgrade or the rush shipping. I realized that as my truck is my DD, I could not let it go down to send in my PCM. HPT allows tunes and patches to be sent via email for instant gratification. HPT also allows for data collection to be done so that a personalized to your truck tune tweak could be performed.

The spal fans themselves are in fact louder than any other efan kit I've ever owned.
They are also the only efan kit that I've owned that can suck in and hold a sheet of paper or suck in a tshirt.
However, that being said, now that I've had them for some time, I've gotten used to them and I can't hear them unless I try to.


To the OP, I respect your right to post up your own personal experience. That's what this forum is for.
Everyone is entitled to make his/her thoughts known. Good or Bad, I'm not here to judge.
And again, I'm sorry to hear about your negative experience. All I can offer is my own positive experience in hopes that somehow comforts you.
Should you wish to sell and be rid of this experience then I'm sure you won't have problems selling.

 

[Boricua SS]

here is a thread on tbssowners about Spal fans... of course its a different platform.. but i think it will show/answer all your questions...

Spal fans, loud? - TBSSOWNERS.com Forums - The #1 TrailblazerSS Dedicated Owners Forum

 

[ScarabEpic22]

Just to provide clarification;

The issue with my Efan kit was not with the kit or the tune. My specific issue was with the EFILive Autocal which refused to communicate with the T42. So as it was suggested by Kelly, I purchased the HPTuners MPVI upgrade which did communicate with the T42 so I could install the efan patch.

My efan kit was purchased after I bought the tune, so a efan patch was required to be installed, unfortunately the EFI Live product has/had issues.

The rushed shipping was an option that I asked and paid for.

Hmmm, I flashed my SS with one of my AutoCals two or three days ago without a problem... That said I read your thread when you started it so I can understand why you went with an MPVI in the end.

 

[sevendj]

Just to provide clarification;

The issue with my Efan kit was not with the kit or the tune. My specific issue was with the EFILive Autocal which refused to communicate with the T42. So as it was suggested by Kelly, I purchased the HPTuners MPVI upgrade which did communicate with the T42 so I could install the efan patch.

My efan kit was purchased after I bought the tune, so a efan patch was required to be installed, unfortunately the EFI Live product has/had issues.

The rushed shipping was an option that I asked and paid for.

You're right. I misunderstood that.

The fact that I seem to be a minority regarding my disdain with their shipping when they make a mistake makes me think that they are not going to change this anytime soon.

At least it doesn't bother anyone else!