SOLVED! Low oil pressure 4.2L

Nvarela64

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Dec 5, 2021
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This Thread may have some additional information on how you can try to passively dissolve the Sludge Build Up down inside the Crankcase and in particular on the Oil Pick Up Tube Screen... WITHOUT having to resort to removing the Crankcase - Oil Pan. If my Engine's Life were in such Danger and I wanted definitive Help in trying to avoid a long and drawn out repair... I'd consider doing what is covered herein FIRST without the slightest hesitation:

(1) Drain the Oil and Fill the Crankcase with (2) Two Gallons of Berryman's "Chem-Dip" and leave the Engine sit for no longer than (4) Four Hours.

(2) Drain the Berryman's Chem-Dip Install a New Cheap Oil Filter and Re-Fill the Engine with Cheap, Organic Motor Oil, exchanging (1) Quart for one of AT Fluid.

(3) Start & Run the Engine at Idle for 10-15 Minutes ...while CLOSELY Observing the Analog Oil Pressure on the Analog Oil Pressure Adapted Gauge.

(4) IF the Oil Pressure drops BELOW NOMINAL...Shut Down the Motor and consider doing the Oil-Pan R&R to Replace the Gerotor Oil Pump "O" Ring Seal and Clean the Oil Pick Up Tube Screen. If ANY of the Main Bearing Caps have turned Blue or Black, this indicates that the Bearings have been Over-Heated and BURNED and either an Engine R&R or Full Motor Re-Build is likely in order.

(5) IF the Oil Pressure remains NOMINAL and improves with gradual increases in RPM... then SUCCESS!

(6) Drain the Contaminated Cheap Organic Oil and R&R the Cheap Oil Filter too for Mobil1 Oil and either a Mobil1 or a K&N Oil Filter. Change the Oil thereafter at 1,500 once and then every 3,000 Miles thereafter... Religiously.

Sorry for reviving an old post but I’m getting the dreaded” low oil pressure stop engine now” message and found this thread when I searched on the forum. It used to be intermittent when stopping at a red light or stop sign and a quick power off, power on would clear the issue, but now it’s staying on. I’ve replaced the oil pressure sender with a new one and am planning on cleaning the throttle next as others have recommended.

I’m replying this thread just to make sure the instructions for the Berryman Chem dip posted above are still recommended and nothing has changed. I plan to do the Berryman flush next if the throttle body doesn’t help anything and want to make sure there hasn’t been any reports of bad things happening on formula changes or anything to make the instructions not valid anymore.

Also, would 1 gallon be enough or do I really need 2? And is 4 hours still the recommended time or would it be longer/shorter now?

Thanks so much for the help in advance guys!
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,349
Ottawa, ON
Before doing all this, confirm you actually have an oil pressure issue. Buy or rent an oil pressure tester and check the actual pressures. The one in the dash is fake so don't rely on that at all.

It could also be an intermittent wiring issue. Check that the oil pressure switch closes when the pressure supposedly drops.

Have you also changed the oil and filter? It could be low or just very old oil.

The other possibility is the pickup to pump seal.

How many miles on this truck?
 

Nvarela64

Original poster
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Dec 5, 2021
6
29526
Before doing all this, confirm you actually have an oil pressure issue. Buy or rent an oil pressure tester and check the actual pressures. The one in the dash is fake so don't rely on that at all.

It could also be an intermittent wiring issue. Check that the oil pressure switch closes when the pressure supposedly drops.

Have you also changed the oil and filter? It could be low or just very old oil.

The other possibility is the pickup to pump seal.

How many miles on this truck?
Yeah I plan to get the mechanical gauge and adapter soon. I have changed the oil and filter, but the symptoms came back after a bit of time. 255500 miles on the car. How can I test that the switch closes for the possible wiring issue? I do have a multimeter and did see that I am getting 12V flowing from the pigtail that the sensor plugs into when the car is on.

But after confirming the low oil pressure, are the steps above still valid? Someone mentioned a possible formula change, and I don’t want to damage anything using the Chem dip.

Update: I just disconnected the negative battery cable and removed and cleaned the throttle body. After I put everything back together, I turned on the car and wasn’t met with the low oil pressure warning or light, so I’m super excited. For the last couple of mornings, I’ve been turning on the car just for a few seconds to see if the warning/light went away, but I’m always immediately greeted by it. Hopefully cleaning the throttle body fixed it, but I ordered the adapter from Amazon (arriving Friday) and am going to get a mechanical gauge from harbor freight to check the pressure just to be sure before I go rolling around town. I hope the plug won’t be hard to get out.
 
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TollKeeper

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Dec 3, 2011
8,056
Brighton, CO
I personally need more info to help you.. Maybe @Mooseman or one of the other mods can break your problem off into its own thread..

But I am not seeing your year, make, model, and engine. This is needed info just in case you have a DOD/AFM issue.
 
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Nvarela64

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I personally need more info to help you.. Maybe @Mooseman or one of the other mods can break your problem off into its own thread..

But I am not seeing your year, make, model, and engine. This is needed info just in case you have a DOD/AFM issue.
My car info is on my profile, but I can say it here too. I have a 2006 Envoy SLT 4.2L i6
 

TollKeeper

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Dec 3, 2011
8,056
Brighton, CO
Not seeing it on your profile...

So with you having a 4.2, we know its not a AFM/DOD issue.

That just leaves 4 possible avenues. You really dont have oil pressure, the O-Ring on the pick up tube has failed, clogged pick up screen, or bad information making it to your instrument cluster.

Just a simple explanation for you, the oil pressure reading on your dashboard is FAKE. Its a presented number posed by the ECM, and not an actual value, unless its -0-.

Beyond that, you are at the end of my expertise. I dont know a lot about the 4.2 I-6.

I would follow the suggestion above about verifying the zero oil pressure with a mechanical gauge. There are a few threads floating around about it, just search, or one of the 4.2 Gurus will help.

P.S. - Not down playing you, my expertise is more in the 5.3 V-8 and XUV.
 
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Mooseman

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Dec 4, 2011
25,349
Ottawa, ON
Broke off these posts into its own thread since the other pertained more on the 5.3.

If you are doing an actual oil pressure test, I would skip the switch test although it may be possible that it's also bad.

However, since you're now saying the pressure seems to have improved since your throttle cleaning, I would assume that your idle before was low or unstable? That happens with a dirty throttle and the battery was disconnected for an unrelated reason, which makes the PCM forget its built-in dirt compensation. This is especially true with the A/C on and the PCM has difficulty keeping the idle speed. You also have to disconnect the battery for at least 30 minutes when cleaning it to reset the PCM.

Still, I would be concerned that a little low RPM would trigger a low oil pressure warning. I would remove one quart of oil and replace it with a quart of transmission fluid and run it until the next oil change. This will slowly clean out the pickup and passages. I would still check pressures with the kit just to be sure.
 
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Joe_67

Member
Aug 9, 2022
56
Central Virginia
In something like almost 40 years of driving I've only twice gotten the oil pressure "idiot light" (well with fancy new stuff it's the DIC "low oil pressure, turn off the engine" message). All 2 times it was the pressure sensor leaking internally. The most recent was with my '02 4.6L. This is a common failure on these engines. There was no overly obvious sign of a leaky sensor. Just and oily connector, but you can really only eyeball it during an oil change with the filter off.
 

Mooseman

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Dec 4, 2011
25,349
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These Switches can also fail internally without any outward sign. Or if it's not an OEM switch, it may trigger at a higher pressure than spec.
 
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mrrsm

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I concur with @Mooseman 's suggestion to install an Analog Oil Line into the Passenger Side Front Block Oil Gallery with an M16 X 1.5 to 1/4" NPT (National Pipe Thread) Adapter and then using an EXTRA LONG Hose with the Oil Pressure "Needle" Gauge to monitor your Oil Pressure at Idle:

OILPRESSUREPOT1.jpgOILPRESSUREPOT2.jpg

Hopefully the one offered in the Oil Pressure Kit from Harbor Freight will have enough Length to allow you to thread the hose around and lay the Gauge near the top side of the Motor for viewing.

Nominal Oil Pressure for the GM 4.2L LL8 Engine is 12 PSI at 600 RPM and around 65 PSI at 3,000 RPM. Anything less than this will allow cavitation inside the Gerotor Oil Pump and thus, lose enough Hydraulic Oil Pressure at the surface areas of the Main Crankshaft Bearings to cause catastrophic **** Metal to Metal Contact.

**** A Lil' Physics Sidebar:

How long does it take the Palms of Your Hands to get VERY Warm just after You start Rubbing them Together? Yeah...? You get it... So You can see that any Engine turning with Higher RPM "At Speed" can rapidly Heat Up at the Rotating Assembly Contact Points, soon becoming Cherry Red and literally start to Weld the Lower End Crankshaft to anything touching those Friction Super-Heated (The Bearings and then... The Engine Block), soon to seize Journals. No Oil Pressure? So no continuous, supporting Lubrication means near instantaneous Death to all Automotive Engines.


Please know that my suggestion to use the "Berrymans" should only be considered as a "Last Ditch Effort" AFTER performing the Analog Oil Pressure Test mentioned above. But... If you cannot develop ANY decent Oil Pressure... then the conditions shown in these images of a having a Gerotor Pump-to-Oil Pick Up Tube "O" Ring with an Erosion Failure will make trying out the use of the Berryman's Solvent untenable as a solution to this problem:

CB04DE1F-872C-4AA8-97CA-83D6EB90B8F7.jpegC1443E7C-AF29-43A8-B406-C5BD34AF899D.jpeg20200416_141909.jpg20200416_142131.jpg02A94E34-DFDA-4779-A7D9-718990828B68.jpegED8EF990-3399-4754-B2C8-F9AA265151CC.jpeg8EA3F6F0-5141-4E19-B649-F589BA113129.jpegTiming cover oil pump seal.jpg

As you can see in the images of these interior Front Timing Cover-Gerotor Oil Pump Combos... the amount of Carbon Build Up in Elderly High Mileage Engines is astonishing. These build up areas having the nearly indestructible Carbon material Flaking Off allows the Stuff to get vacuumed into the Screened Off Oil Pick Up Tube, forming a Gas Gum, Carbon Laden Blockage.

This Junk can collect in quantity and occlude that opening enough to cause the Gerotor Oil Pump to Pull a STRONG enough Vacuum to Defeat the Blue "O" Ring. And just like having a "Slit in a Drink Straw"... as soon as this occurs... the Suction required for the Gerotor Gears to draw in and pressurize Oil completely disappears.
 
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Mooseman

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Dec 4, 2011
25,349
Ottawa, ON
Another possibility, although rare on this engine AFAIK, is a stuck pressure relief valve in the oil pump. If it's stuck open, it will have low oil pressure, especially at idle, and would be lower than normal at higher RPM.

We will wait for the results of your pressure tests before going down that rabbit hole any further.
 
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Nvarela64

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Dec 5, 2021
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I concur with @Mooseman 's suggestion to install an Analog Oil Line into the Passenger Side Front Block Oil Gallery with an M16 X 1.5 to NPT (National Pipe Thread) Adapter and then using an EXTRA LONG Hose with the Oil Pressure "Needle" Gauge to monitor your Oil Pressure at Idle:

View attachment 105087View attachment 105088

Hopefully the one offered in the Oil Pressure Kit from Harbor Freight will have enough Length to allow you to thread the hose around and lay the Gauge near the top side of the Motor for viewing.

Nominal Oil Pressure for the GM 4.2L LL8 Engine is 12 PSI at 600 RPM and around 65 PSI at 3,000 RPM. Anything less than this will allow cavitation inside the Gerotor Oil Pump and thus, lose enough Hydraulic Oil Pressure at the surface areas of the Main Crankshaft Bearings to cause catastrophic Metal to Metal Contact.

Please know that my suggestion to use the "Berrymans" should only be considered as a "Last Ditch Effort" AFTER performing the Analog Oil Pressure Test mentioned above. But... If you cannot develop ANY decent Oil Pressure... than the conditions shown in these images of a having a Gerotor Pump-to-Oil Pick Up Tube "O" Ring with an Erosion Failure will make trying out the use of the Berryman's Solvent untenable as a solution to this problem:

View attachment 105079View attachment 105080View attachment 105081View attachment 105082View attachment 105083View attachment 105084View attachment 105085View attachment 105086

As you can see in the images of these interior Front Timing Cover-Gerotor Oil Pump Combos... the amount of Carbon Build Up in Elderly High Mileage Engines is astonishing. These build up areas having the nearly indestructible Carbon material Flaking Off allows the Stuff to get vacuumed into the Screened Off Oil Pick Up Tube, forming a Gas Gum, Carbon Laden Blockage.

This Junk can collect in quantity and occlude that opening enough to cause the Gerotor Oil Pump to Pull a STRONG enough Vacuum to Defeat the Blue "O" Ring. And just like having a "Slit in a Drink Straw"... as soon as this occurs... the Suction required for the Gerotor Gears to draw in and pressurize Oil completely disappears.
Can you tell me what size bit/socket I’ll need to get the plug off?
 

mrrsm

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Certainly... Sorry for any delay with my Answers:

The GM 4.2L LL8 Engine Sports a Few Different Hex-Head Socket Style Fasteners (for Cap Screw Bolts and Oil Gallery Port Cover Plugs):

(1) The Engine Head M11X2.00X155MM Head Bolts use the "H-10"
(2) The Lateral Mains Oil Gallery Aluminum Plugs use the "H-6"
(3) The Timing Cover Chain Guide Fasteners Plastic Plugs use the "H-6"
(4) The Front, Passenger Side Oil Gallery Plug M16 X 1.5 uses the "H-8" ***

METRICHEX8MMSOCKET38THDRIVE1.jpgMETRICHEX8MMSOCKET38THDRIVE2.jpg

*** Use a Moderate Amount Of Counter-Clockwise Force so as not to Crack the Oil Gallery Threaded Port inside of the Oil Filter Manifold area during these events.

There may be an "O" Ring nested in a Groove under the lip of the GM Hex-Plug... so it is this Plump Seal (not to be confused with a male Walrus) that does all of the work of keeping up to 65 PSI from escaping around that Plug... NOT an Excessive Amount Of Torque when tightening it back down.

The M16 X 1.5 to 1/4" NPT Hose Adapter should come with a Copper Crush Ring Washer that also serves this identical purpose, so there is no need to be too aggressive when installing it inside of the Motor.

Once you have all of the Analog Oil Pressure Tester Gauge and Hose installed.... Have someone observe the arrangement at the Adapter and at the attachment point where the Hose screws onto the Analog Gauge.

Immediately After Start Up... If they see any Oil Leaks... While you are still sitting behind the wheel... they should Raise their Hand and Yell out a Warning. Just Shut Down the Motor and return to the job of GENTLY re- tightening down the places wherever any Oil Leaks prevail.

A Very Little Torque ...Goes a Very LONG Way in these situations. :>)

Caution:

If you observe that the Oil Pressure on the Analog Oil Pressure Gauge FAILS TO RISE to at LEAST 12 PSI when idling at 600 RPM... Shut Down The Motor (STAT)... and let us know at your earliest convenience. If the Oil Pressure rises...and then fluctuates up and down quite unreliably... Shut Down the Motor (STAT) and... well...You Know What To Do...


In a Telegram from Sherlock Holmes to Dr. John Watson:
"Come at once if Convenient. If Inconvenient, Come all the same. Holmes"
Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
 
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Nvarela64

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Dec 5, 2021
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I want to thank everyone for their help! The pictures and information really helped me. I was able to get the oil gauge Out with a bit of struggle (by a bit I mean a lot; it was hard to get the gauge screwed in) My pressure was around 16-18 at idle and around 40-50 when driving down the road (didn’t go too far, 35-40mph at most during test). I believe cleaning the throttle body is what solved the issue for me. Hopefully everything stays that way. I wasn’t able to reproduce the low pressure warning issue no matter how long I idled, so I am very happy!

I have been able to flush the trans, change the oil, rear differential, (power steering is my next thing), and clean the throttle all on my own using the forum and ytube videos. I’m very grateful!

Note for anyone that reads this thread in the future to get help: my symptoms were that my message/warning only came on when I turned the key into the on position but did not start car and left it that way for about a minute or so. Otherwise, it was rare to get the issue at all, but if I did get it at any other time, it was at a stop sign or red light when the engine would idle for a minute or more. I switched out my oil pressure switch (no change really) and did an amsoil motor flush + oil change (helped for bit of time before issue came back). I don’t doubt there is sludge in my engine though. I can see the grit and debris in the valve cover when I pull it out just to replace any oil. I will be doing more flushes with each oil change in the future, and hopefully over time, it will clear out little by little.
Thanks again!
 
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Mooseman

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Dec 4, 2011
25,349
Ottawa, ON
Glad it turned out OK. Like I said, the idle was probably too low or erratic with the dirty TB.
 

TollKeeper

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Dec 3, 2011
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Brighton, CO
Could always do a Berryman Flush, or a BG Oil Flush.

WatchJRGo did a BG product on both his Chrysler 200 I4, and a Chevy Camaro V6, with very surprising results on each.

Chrysler 200

Chevy Camaro
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,349
Ottawa, ON
I wouldn't flush it. Case in point:


I'd do the transmission fluid thing instead for a nice slow cleaning. It will dissolve any gunk slowly. Or even better, a good high mileage synthetic oil will also work.

Basically, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
 

Joe_67

Member
Aug 9, 2022
56
Central Virginia
I wouldn't flush it. Case in point:


I'd do the transmission fluid thing instead for a nice slow cleaning. It will dissolve any gunk slowly. Or even better, a good high mileage synthetic oil will also work.

Basically, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
+1 to that ^^^^

Better yet, use good quality oil and filters and change the oil on time and - with the exception of certain, not-so-common, engine designs known to accumulate sludge - then you don't have to do anything at all.
 

JWO76

Member
May 20, 2023
9
Tucson AZ
Another possibility, although rare on this engine AFAIK, is a stuck pressure relief valve in the oil pump. If it's stuck open, it will have low oil pressure, especially at idle, and would be lower than normal at higher RPM.

We will wait for the results of your pressure tests before going down that rabbit hole any further.
Currently having the same problem with low oil pressure however it only happens during the day in warm weather after 45 min of driving. Oil pressure rises with acceleration but drops when stopped in Drive.

Manual gauge showed oil pressure from what mechanic told me but he was stumped and didn't want to deal with it as the backlog of repairs seems to be quite high these days with interest rates and car prices what they are. I changed oil pressure sending unit ( I doubt that's what it is). My only plan is to perhaps go the ATF route with shorter duration engine changes and hope it works itself out. I'm not confident in my ability to drop the oil pan. My car has 167k
4.2L v6 06 Envoy. If you have any suggestions I'm all ears. The chemical cleaner while sounding like a good idea (cheap and easy) scares the hall out of me not knowing what seals are where.

Any thoughts on mixing Rotella Diesel oil instead of ATF for the detergent properties?

You guys are great and your information is invaluable
 
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mrrsm

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The best approach is to delve into what your actual oil pressure is doing under operating “Analog” conditions. Take your “Pick-Of-The-Litter” from the Oil Pressure Test Kits shown in this Amazon Link and then choose the one with the most readable Oil Pressure Gauge Head and sporting an Extra Long Hose Length of around 5 Feet or Longer:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0016BQN80/?tag=gmtnation-20

81Jhd7FEgIL._SL1500_.jpg

This will allow you to interface the opposite end of the Hose to thread inside of an M16 X 1.5 Threaded Adapter to its internal ¼” NPT (National Pipe Thread) after securing the adapter into the Lower Right Front Passenger Side of the Engine Block, in front of the Oil Filter Manifold area of the engine block using an H-8 Tool on a 3/8" Long Handled Ratchet:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0894LDF76/?tag=gmtnation-20

51EYLRgq3fL._SL1016_.jpg

Then snake that Hose & Gauge up and around anything that is Moving or HOT to a position under the hood (so it can be closed for taking any Test Drives) ...but close enough to be seen along the bottom of the Windshield. Nominal Oil Pressure begins at 12 PSI at an Idle of 600 RPM and settles around 65 PSI in the range of 3,000 RPM.

You are fortunate in one respect here… The 2006 GM 4.2L LL8 Engines should be fitted with a Modified Orange Silicone Impregnated Grommet Style Washer Seal AND the upper portion of the Oil Pump Pick Up Tube was lengthened to fit deeper inside of the updated and modified Gerotor Oil Pump Inlet Manifold. This design did away with the Ordinary, Failure Prone "Viton" (Blue) Teflon Style Seal and thus, reduced the chances for air cavitation and loss of any vacuum at the newer designed inlet side of the Gerotor Oil Pump:

43350752342_de8cf5f26a_c.jpg

But that leaves the OTHER question of whether or not the Screen on the Oil Pick Up Tube has become packed solid with flaked off chunks of collected Greasy Carbon accumulating and clogging up the Screen over time from excessive In-Cylinder Gas Blow-By during all of the Compression and Power Strokes.

If you find that the Tip of the Oil Dipstick has a heavy odor of Gasoline… THAT is a strong indicator that even on a relatively “Youthful” Engine such as yours with only 165K Miles… Having the “Low Tension” Compression Rings Stuck TIGHT by this "Gas-Gum Lacquer" and held deep within the inner Lands and Grooves of the Pistons… allows all of that Burning In-Cylinder Junk to By-Pass the Rings during each Power Stroke and contaminate the inner Engine Block.

This condition also serves to ruin Oil Lubricity and its usefulness much sooner than later. So... Trying to Wring out the Oil Change frequency just to save a few Bucks from the necessary 3.000 Miles rate up to say... 5,000 Miles ... is an invitation for this problem to develop. Used Motor Oil...Like Human Blood...becomes a Liquid with CARBON SOLIDS suspended within its volume over time.

If you’ve been wondering for some time, “WHERE IS ALL THAT ENGINE OIL GOING?” when you believe that you have checked it often enough for having the proper level, but somehow… it just keeps disappearing, then THIS is an explanation concerning How and Why this is probably happening:


(1) The Low Tension Compression Rings on the Pistons get “Gas-Gummed” up and stuck Tightly to the inner Lands and Grooves of the Six Pistons. Using ACDelco Top Engine Cleaner featured here at GMT Nation in several Posts can offer some improvement and relief by dissolving the Heavy Carbon Deposits around the Valve Seats, on the Piston Tops and "UN-Glue" the Lacquered Upper Compression Rings to return their "Latent Springiness" and SEAL the Cylinders better:


(2) The phenomena of Gas Blow-By allows combustion gasses and the residual solid by-products of durable Carbon to pass down inside of the Crank-Case and increase the atmospheric pressure down there.

(3) Those gasses seek an escape point that leads from the lower Crank-Case Oil-Pan up through the Engine Passages and out through the small PCV Pipe positioned in the upper front of the Valve Cover.

(4) Thus Engine Oil and Burned Fuel and Oily Vapors get thrown around by the spinning motions of the Rotating Valve Train and this Liquid Mess collects on the inside (under side) of the Valve Cover and from there... it gets driven out under this excess Blow-By pressure through that Small Rubber Elbow leading up inside of the Intake Resonator. If you remove the Resonator and after tipping it over, you find any Engine Oil Pouring out... Right THERE is your PROOF.

(5) From there, it moves with the added assistance of a vacuum through the in-coming air-stream entering the Throttle Body and then travels back down through the Intake Manifold Runners to be ingested right back inside the Cylinder Head to get Burned inside the cylinders instead of escaping out into the Atmosphere.

(6) This Cycle of Poor Combustion Containment processes eventually helps to populat the inner structures of the lower end with so much of this Black Carbon “Mung” that it literally Flakes Off and eventually shakes loose and drops down into the Oil Pan ...waiting to be suction vacuumed up into the Oil Pick Up Inlet Screen and form this disabling blockage.

(7) At around 240,000 Miles of Engine Life at an approximate use rate of say 18 MPG...the average LL8 Engine will burn nearly 12,000 Gallons of Gasoline and use 175,000 Gallons of Air to Oxidize it all. Thus these “Engine Carbon Coking” events lead to these problems that proceed from the Cradle to Grave on these Amazing Atlas Motors.

Recently, I noticed that the Snap-On Model #BK5500 Fiber Optic Probe Cameras sporting a more rigid Camera Line that is better suited for probing have become available over on eBay at reasonable prices. Since then, I’ve pondered the idea of whether or not it would be possible to Pull the Oil Drain Plug from underneath the 4.2L Engines and after allowing the Oil to thoroughly drain from the Crankcase, use this Water-proof - Oil-proof Camera to more closely investigate the condition of the Oil Pick Up Tube Screen from directly below.

If this is possible… Cleaning it off very directly with a Powerful Spray Solvent might sort things out without requiring any major mechanical repair intervention. Check out these images via THIS “Tool Talk” Posting #814 and #815 via the Link below to see if this idea appeals to you:


It seem like the presence and position of the Drain Port in THIS location would fairly optimize the Optical Camera and Cleaning Spray Nozzle access to the Oil Pick-Up Tube Screen hidden inside of this Oil Pan.

Note that while spraying up inside the Oil Pan...it will be necessary to frequently withdraw the Plastic Wand and allow any Solid Chunks of Carbon to pass clean through the neck of the Oil Drain Manifold (approx. ID of a 15mm Threaded Hole).

43350776282_7bb1ced474_c.jpg

I suspect that if you can actually SEE that Damned screen… then once its hidden orientation is revealed ...Spraying it out using Berryman’s B-12 ChemTool might actually improve upon this disgusting condition. But first and foremost... You'll need to find out for yourself first hand what is actually occurring with your Oil Pressure when the engine is running, idling or when having an elevated RPM and then decide what if any actions might be necessary to take from those results:


If this becomes necessary to do, it might be more practical to use this stuff via a partially filled Plastic Garden Sprayer Hopper fitted with a Wand made of a Lengthy Thin Plastic Tube having a Tapered Rubber Stopper made by Drilling it out though the center and wind up with a Spray Nozzle on the End that can be slid through the Drain Plug Hole and then pumped up to a proper cleaning pressure.

Then... while spraying from a safe distance up through the Oil Drain Port... you won't have to be directly positioned up under or too near the Engine Oil-Pan and have exposure with all of the Toxic Black Mung Chemical as it is draining back out all over your face and arms.

Wearing OSHA approved Full Face Mask for Eye Protection along with wearing 11Mil Nitrile Gloves seems like a safer way to approach things when working away down there. Using a LARGE Concrete Mortar Mixing Pan to collect all of this Toxic VOC laden Junk and getting it poured back into a closed container ASAP also makes sense:

Something like THIS:



61v+FtcrrZL._AC_SL1500_.jpg
 

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Mooseman

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Dec 4, 2011
25,349
Ottawa, ON
Question is, what were the results of the shop's tests? Did they attach a real mechanical gauge? As you may know, the one in the dash is fake. And this is where you attach a real gauge.


Currently having the same problem with low oil pressure however it only happens during the day in warm weather after 45 min of driving. Oil pressure rises with acceleration but drops when stopped in Drive.
Is this going by the dash gauge? As previously said, it's fake, always showing the same range of pressures according to RPM. Hot, cold, whatever. It's always the same. The ONLY exception is if there is an actual low/no oil pressure or the oil pressure switch is defective and it will just go to 0 psi. If pressures are alll over the place and you don't get any warning of low oil pressure (DIC) or the check gauges light (LS), it could be the stepper motor for that gauge that's tired of showing fake pressures.

What kind of BS is it that they won't do the work? Work is work. Might take some time to get to it but WTF?
 

JWO76

Member
May 20, 2023
9
Tucson AZ
The best approach is to delve into what your actual oil pressure is doing under operating “Analog” conditions. Take your “Pick-Of-The-Litter” from the Oil Pressure Test Kits shown in this Amazon Link and then choose the one with the most readable Oil Pressure Gauge Head and sporting an Extra Long Hose Length of around 5 Feet or Longer:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0016BQN80/?tag=gmtnation-20

View attachment 108378

This will allow you to interface the opposite end of the Hose to thread inside of an M16 X 1.5 Threaded Adapter to its internal ¼” NPT (National Pipe Thread) after securing the adapter into the Lower Right Front Passenger Side of the Engine Block, in front of the Oil Filter Manifold area of the engine block using an H-8 Tool on a 3/8" Long Handled Ratchet:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0894LDF76/?tag=gmtnation-20

View attachment 108379

Then snake that Hose & Gauge up and around anything that is Moving or HOT to a position under the hood (so it can be closed for taking any Test Drives) ...but close enough to be seen along the bottom of the Windshield. Nominal Oil Pressure begins at 12 PSI at an Idle of 600 RPM and settles around 65 PSI in the range of 3,000 RPM.

You are fortunate in one respect here… The 2006 GM 4.2L LL8 Engines should be fitted with a Modified Orange Silicone Impregnated Grommet Style Washer Seal AND the upper portion of the Oil Pump Pick Up Tube was lengthened to fit deeper inside of the updated and modified Gerotor Oil Pump Inlet Manifold. This design did away with the Ordinary, Failure Prone "Viton" (Blue) Teflon Style Seal and thus, reduced the chances for air cavitation and loss of any vacuum at the newer designed inlet side of the Gerotor Oil Pump:

View attachment 108382

But that leaves the OTHER question of whether or not the Screen on the Oil Pick Up Tube has become packed solid with flaked off chunks of collected Greasy Carbon accumulating and clogging up the Screen over time from excessive In-Cylinder Gas Blow-By during all of the Compression and Power Strokes.

If you find that the Tip of the Oil Dipstick has a heavy odor of Gasoline… THAT is a strong indicator that even on a relatively “Youthful” Engine such as yours with only 165K Miles… Having the “Low Tension” Compression Rings Stuck TIGHT by this "Gas-Gum Lacquer" and held deep within the inner Lands and Grooves of the Pistons… allows all of that Burning In-Cylinder Junk to By-Pass the Rings during each Power Stroke and contaminate the inner Engine Block.

This condition also serves to ruin Oil Lubricity and its usefulness much sooner than later. So... Trying to Wring out the Oil Change frequency just to save a few Bucks from the necessary 3.000 Miles rate up to say... 5,000 Miles ... is an invitation for this problem to develop. Used Motor Oil...Like Human Blood...becomes a Liquid with CARBON SOLIDS suspended within its volume over time.

If you’ve been wondering for some time, “WHERE IS ALL THAT ENGINE OIL GOING?” when you believe that you have checked it often enough for having the proper level, but somehow… it just keeps disappearing, then THIS is an explanation concerning How and Why this is probably happening:


(1) The Low Tension Compression Rings on the Pistons get “Gas-Gummed” up and stuck Tightly to the inner Lands and Grooves of the Six Pistons. Using ACDelco Top Engine Cleaner featured here at GMT Nation in several Posts can offer some improvement and relief by dissolving the Heavy Carbon Deposits around the Valve Seats, on the Piston Tops and "UN-Glue" the Lacquered Upper Compression Rings to return their "Latent Springiness" and SEAL the Cylinders better:


(2) The phenomena of Gas Blow-By allows combustion gasses and the residual solid by-products of durable Carbon to pass down inside of the Crank-Case and increase the atmospheric pressure down there.

(3) Those gasses seek an escape point that leads from the lower Crank-Case Oil-Pan up through the Engine Passages and out through the small PCV Pipe positioned in the upper front of the Valve Cover.

(4) Thus Engine Oil and Burned Fuel and Oily Vapors get thrown around by the spinning motions of the Rotating Valve Train collects inside and driven out under this excess pressure through the Small Rubber Elbow leading into the Intake Resonator. If you remove the Resonator and after tipping it over, any Engine Oil Pours out...Right THERE is your PROOF.

(5) From there, it moves with the added assistance of a vacuum through the in-coming air-stream entering the Throttle Body and then travels back down through the Intake Manifold Runners to be ingested right back inside the Cylinder Head to get Burned inside the cylinders instead of escaping out into the Atmosphere.

(6) This Cycle of Poor Combustion processes eventually populate the inner structures of the lower end with so much of this Black “Mung” that it literally flakes off and drops down into the Oil Pan waiting to be vacuumed up into the Oil Pick Up Inlet Screen and form the disabling blockage.

(7) At around 240,000 Miles of Engine Life at an approximate use rate of say 18 MPG...the average LL8 Engine will burn nearly 12,000 Gallons of Gasoline and use 175,000 Gallons of Air to Oxidize it all. Thus these “Engine Carbon Coking” events lead to these problems that proceed from the Cradle to Grave on these Amazing Atlas Motors.

Recently, I noticed that the Snap-On Model #BK5500 Fiber Optic Probe Cameras sporting a more rigid Camera Line that is better suited for probing have become available over on eBay at reasonable prices. Since then, I’ve pondered the idea of whether or not it would be possible to Pull the Oil Drain Plug from underneath the 4.2L Engines and after allowing the Oil to thoroughly drain from the Crankcase, use this Water-proof - Oil-proof Camera to more closely investigate the condition of the Oil Pick Up Tube Screen from directly below.

If this is possible… Cleaning it off very directly with a Powerful Spray Solvent might sort things out without requiring any major mechanical repair intervention. Check out these images via THIS “Tool Talk” Posting #814 and #815 via the Link below to see if this idea appeals to you:


It seem like the presence and position of the Drain Port in THIS location would fairly optimize the Optical Camera and Cleaning Spray Nozzle access to the Oil Pick-Up Tube Screen hidden inside of this Oil Pan.

View attachment 108381

I suspect that if you can actually SEE that Damned screen… then once its hidden orientation is revealed ...Spraying it out using Berryman’s B-12 ChemTool might actually improve upon this disgusting condition. But first and foremost... You'll need to find out for yourself first hand what is actually occurring with your Oil Pressure when the engine is running, idling or when having an elevated RPM and then decide what if any actions might be necessary to take from those results:


If this becomes necessary to do, it might be more practical to use this stuff via a partially filled Plastic Garden Sprayer Hopper fitted with a Wand made of a Lengthy Thin Plastic Tube having a Tapered Rubber Stopper made by Drilling it out though the center and wind up with a Spray Nozzle on the End that can be slid through the Drain Plug Hole and then pumped up to a proper cleaning pressure.

Then... while spraying from a safe distance up through the Oil Drain Port... you won't have to be directly positioned up under or too near the Engine Oil-Pan and have exposure with all of the Toxic Black Mung Chemical as it is draining back out all over your face and arms.

Wearing OSHA approved Full Face Mask for Eye Protection along with wearing 11Mil Nitrile Gloves seems like a safer way to approach things when working away down there. Using a LARGE Concrete Mortar Mixing Pan to collect all of this Toxic VOC laden Junk and getting it poured back into a closed container ASAP also makes sense:

Something like THIS:



61v+FtcrrZL._AC_SL1500_.jpg

and having
You sir are a gem! Thank you so much. Fortunately I don't burn oil.

I appreciate your thoughtful and concise response.
 
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mrrsm

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Thanks...Glad to Help. One small additional observation... Unless the 4.2L Engine is burning "Purple Jesus" 145 Octane Aviation Fuel poured into the Fuel Tank after stealing a 55 Gallon Fuel Drum meant for a P-47 "JUG" WW2 Fighter Plane... You'll NEVER get to see any signs of "Oil Burning Smoke" coming out of the Tail Pipe of any GMT360 Rig.

THIS is because MOST of the Oil By-Products must get Burned Up completely inside of the REALLY HOT Catalytic Converter Innards... Right along with all of the other Noxious Combustion By-products present from Much Lower Octane Fuels. So you could be "Burning Oil" from Bad Rings and Bad Valve Stem Guides & Seals... But You'd NEVER Know It. :>)

PS...

Burning Motor Oil through normal engine exhalations is referred to as "Poisoning The CAT..."
 
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JWO76

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May 20, 2023
9
Tucson AZ
Thanks...Glad to Help. One small additional observation... Unless the 4.2L Engine is burning "Purple Jesus" 145 Octane Aviation Fuel poured into the Fuel Tank after stealing a 55 Gallon Fuel Drum meant for a P-47 "JUG" WW2 Fighter Plane... You'll NEVER get to see any signs of "Oil Burning Smoke" coming out of the Tail Pipe of any GMT360 Rig.

THIS is because MOST of the Oil By-Products must get Burned Up completely inside of the REALLY HOT Catalytic Converter Innards... Right along with all of the other Noxious Combustion By-products present from Much Lower Octane Fuels. So you could be "Burning Oil" from Bad Rings and Bad Valve Stem Guides & Seals... But You'd NEVER Know It. :>)
No I'm basing this assertion on the dipstick but thank you.
 

JWO76

Member
May 20, 2023
9
Tucson AZ
Question is, what were the results of the shop's tests? Did they attach a real mechanical gauge? As you may know, the one in the dash is fake. And this is where you attach a real gauge.



Is this going by the dash gauge? As previously said, it's fake, always showing the same range of pressures according to RPM. Hot, cold, whatever. It's always the same. The ONLY exception is if there is an actual low/no oil pressure or the oil pressure switch is defective and it will just go to 0 psi. If pressures are alll over the place and you don't get any warning of low oil pressure (DIC) or the check gauges light (LS), it could be the stepper motor for that gauge that's tired of showing fake pressures.

What kind of BS is it that they won't do the work? Work is work. Might take some time to get to it but WTF?
Correct they attached an analog gauge to the oil filter port. Said that oil pressure was present when switch signaled low pressure.
 
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Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,349
Ottawa, ON
Well, since you replaced the oil pressure switch, I would suspect a bad stepper motor. To confirm, unplug the pressure switch and it should show pressure at all times no matter what the engine is doing and varying with the RPM. Could also be a wiring issue if it's shorting falsely indicating low pressure. Also try jumping the two connectors and see what the fake pressure gauge does.
 
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JWO76

Member
May 20, 2023
9
Tucson AZ
Well, since you replaced the oil pressure switch, I would suspect a bad stepper motor. To confirm, unplug the pressure switch and it should show pressure at all times no matter what the engine is doing and varying with the RPM. Could also be a wiring issue if it's shorting falsely indicating low pressure. Also try jumping the two connectors and see what the fake pressure gauge does.
When I disconnected the old switch it indeed did maintain its oil pressure reading at 40.

I just finished removing the throttle body and cleaning the butterfly. Oddly the oil gauge now sits at 60ish (up from 40) while driving. Obviously not an accurate reading but the engine seems to be much happier. That cyclical vibration I was getting at red lights and stop signs (coincidentally when the hot engine would trip low oil) is gone. So much so that I kept thinking the engine stalled when rolling up to stops.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,349
Ottawa, ON
Ah well if the idle would drop enough to trip the low oil pressure switch, which I think is 12 psi, then it is possible. If it's still tripping, I would replace the oil pressure switch again with an ACDelco if possible. OEM parts are getting scarce for these trucks.
 

TJBaker57

Member
Aug 16, 2015
2,900
Colorado
A comment or two.....

The oil pressure switch closes/opens at about 4 psi. Open circuit at pressures above 4, closed circuit at pressures below 4 psi.

When testing with a mechanical test gauge it is most revealing when the engine oil is HOT, like after driving for about a half hour or more.

The pressure should be at least 12 psi at 1200 RPM.
 

JWO76

Member
May 20, 2023
9
Tucson AZ
Ah well if the idle would drop enough to trip the low oil pressure switch, which I think is 12 psi, then it is possible. If it's still tripping, I would replace the oil pressure switch again with an ACDelco if possible. OEM parts are getting scarce for these trucks.
Thank you. Really appreciate the input. You guys rock.
 

ironring

Member
May 6, 2023
9
Canada
Hello, all. I'm going to slightly hijack this thread because I am experiencing pretty much the same issue. I've done a bunch and I think that I have it solved (or at least the "non problem" identified, but I would appreciate all of your experienced thoughts on the matter.

First, my truck is a 2002 GMC Envoy 4.2L with about 280,000km on it. I started experiencing the dash gauge crashing to 0 last September. As with others, it only happens after the truck warms up, and only at idle. If I watch the temperature gauge, I know that it is imminent when I stop seeing the temperature gauge fluctuate as the thermostat opens and closes. Once that needle is stationary at about half-scale, I know that the dash oil gauge dropping to zero is just around the corner. I know the gauge is a complete fabrication :wink: .

I changed the oil pressure switch - I didn't spring for an OEM or ACDelco. At that time I still thought that it was a real sensor so I got cheap one. Probably a bad decision on my part in hindsight.

This spring I removed the oil pan to check the intake screen and o-ring. Special thanks to Mooseman for your AMAZING instructions. I had a weeping leak in the oil pan gasket anyways that I wanted to fix and I had all the tools, so it was just a matter of time. The intake screen didn't look bad, maybe a dime-sized splotch of gunk in total. The o-ring looked a little compressed, so I cleaned the pan, the intake and replaced the o-ring. For a little while I thought that I had it beat, but then the damn gauge started crashing to zero again.

On my last oil change I did the triple-Seafoam treatment: in the gas, in the oil, and sprayed through the throttle body, followed by hot soak, then drove on the highway at about 120km/h for a half hour or so. Although I think that this smoothed up the engine a bit (confirmation bias?), I hasn't solved the oil pressure issue.

Finally (and perhaps I should have done this at the beginning...) I put a mechanical/analog gauge on at the port next to the oil pressure switch. At cold start (~20C outside temperature) I had 70psi. This dropped as things warmed up, but at 100km/h on the highway the gauge showed about 40psi. At idle it drops to about 8-10psi after fully warmed up (I don't know how accurate the 0-140psi gauge is at low pressures). I've attached a photo of the gauge at idle after warm up. I don't know what my warmed up idle speed is, but if I recall correctly last time I had my scanner on it registered at about 560 rpm. Regardless, I'm not seeing the analog gauge move when the dash gauge drops to zero.

Here is where I am at. I'm inclined to think that I don't actually have an oil pressure issue. Maybe a low idle, and I may remove and clean the throttle body to see if that brings up the idle speed similar to what Nvarela64 reported. Regardless, I am inclined to purchase an after-market oil pressure gauge and mount it on the dash. However, most of these are 0-100 psi sensors and I don't know how accurate/useful they are in such a low oil pressure system as the 4.2L in these trucks. I'm open to recommendations. I was considering one of the digital ones as that would (ideally) give me a number rather than a needle sitting near the low end of the scale.
 

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Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,349
Ottawa, ON
Definitely a low Idle speed, should be around 650. Clean the throttle body and disconnect the battery for at least 30 minutes while cleaning it. See if the pressure picks up at the proper idle speed. It is a common issue of a low idle speed triggering the low oil pressure warning. If that doesn't fix it, I'd replace the pressure switch to eliminate that as the source of the false low pressure warning.

8 PSI is a tad low despite the trigger pressure is 4 PSI. If the engine is not noisy at idle and not getting any codes for VVT issues, which is oil pressure controlled, I would not worry. However, your engine is on the high end of wear and mileage and may have increased tolerances, allowing more oil to pass by the bearings. I'd run a higher viscosity oil, maybe a 10w30 and see if the hot pressure increases.
 
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ironring

Member
May 6, 2023
9
Canada
Definitely a low Idle speed, should be around 650. Clean the throttle body and disconnect the battery for at least 30 minutes while cleaning it. See if the pressure picks up at the proper idle speed. It is a common issue of a low idle speed triggering the low oil pressure warning. If that doesn't fix it, I'd replace the pressure switch to eliminate that as the source of the false low pressure warning.

8 PSI is a tad low despite the trigger pressure is 4 PSI. If the engine is not noisy at idle and not getting any codes for VVT issues, which is oil pressure controlled, I would not worry. However, your engine is on the high end of wear and mileage and may have increased tolerances, allowing more oil to pass by the bearings. I'd run a higher viscosity oil, maybe a 10w30 and see if the hot pressure increases.
Cleaned the throttle body this morning. I still managed to trip the dash oil pressure warning, but my real gauge showed that the oil pressure was a little higher and idle RPM had increased to about 620 rpm. I'm still running 5W30, so I'll pick up some 10W30 synthetic tomorrow and do the swap.
 
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ironring

Member
May 6, 2023
9
Canada
Here's an update on where I am at. The throttle body was not terribly dirty, but cleaning it did increase the idle speed from the high 500s rpm to about 620 rpm. It seemed to increase the oil pressure a little bit according to my mechanical gauge. Is there any other way to increase the idle on the 4.2? I feel like if I could just get it up to 650 the low oil pressure issue would vanish.

Today I also drained out the 5W30 (with some seafoam in it to help clean things out if needed) and refilled with Mobil 10W30 full synthetic. The weird thing is, this either had no effect on oil pressure according to my gauge or actually lowered it a little... I don't know what to make of that.

I'll be ordering a new AC Delco oil pressure switch this evening. As I said in my earlier post, when I first replaced it I didn't realize that it was just a switch (and the whole dash gauge being completely fake) so I cheaped out and got a discount part. We'll see how that changes things.

My last question. There is that plastic hose nipple on the passenger side of the round plastic housing that the throttle body bolts to. There is nothing on it on my truck - it's completely open. I've found a few threads on here that I think are talking about this port, although the images from those posts seem to be gone. If I understand it that port should be plugged. I've now plugged it but it was open before. Not sure if that would have been confusing the system, but it's always been open for as long as I've had the truck. I've attached a photo with an arrow pointing to the fitting I mean.
 

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Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,349
Ottawa, ON
Normally, I'd say no because of the VVT system but you have other worries so you can try it.

Only way to increase the idle speed is to get it tuned.

Don't worry about that nipple. It's for extended trucks with the rear HVAC system. Just leave it plugged.
 

TJBaker57

Member
Aug 16, 2015
2,900
Colorado
ah, I had the two numbers backwards, then. Would it be safe to run 10W40 in the 4.2L?

I will admit I have once or twice tried 10w-40. It is not advised by the owners manual.

My circumstance is a 2002 with 280000 miles and a leaking oil pickup tube O-ring. I installed an aftermarket mechanical oil pressure gauge. Additionally, as a 2002 model these 4.2 engines have an oil temperature sensor that I can monitor with an OBD2 adapter and a phone app.

If my oil temperature rises above about 190 to 195°F that is when I will have a low pressure situation at idle. Like yours I see 8 to 10 at a normal warm idle.

My idle has always been a steady 620 or so.

It is worth noting the service manuals state the test specification for oil pressure is 12 psi at 1200 rpm. Well at least that is what my memory comes up with.
 

ironring

Member
May 6, 2023
9
Canada
I will admit I have once or twice tried 10w-40. It is not advised by the owners manual.

My circumstance is a 2002 with 280000 miles and a leaking oil pickup tube O-ring. I installed an aftermarket mechanical oil pressure gauge. Additionally, as a 2002 model these 4.2 engines have an oil temperature sensor that I can monitor with an OBD2 adapter and a phone app.

If my oil temperature rises above about 190 to 195°F that is when I will have a low pressure situation at idle. Like yours I see 8 to 10 at a normal warm idle.

My idle has always been a steady 620 or so.

It is worth noting the service manuals state the test specification for oil pressure is 12 psi at 1200 rpm. Well at least that is what my memory comes up with.
Thanks for the info. I now have a proper AC Delco oil pressure switch on its way. If that doesn't solve the problem I will probably get a real oil gauge and install it so that I have an actual gauge to go by.

Other than the oil pressure issue, I just need to replace the front sway bar links (also on their way) and repair the connection to the rear wiper and then it's in pretty good shape.

Mostly I just don't want to have to worry about it, and everyone's advice has convinced me that it's probably fine as is.
 

ironring

Member
May 6, 2023
9
Canada
I will admit I have once or twice tried 10w-40. It is not advised by the owners manual.

My circumstance is a 2002 with 280000 miles and a leaking oil pickup tube O-ring. I installed an aftermarket mechanical oil pressure gauge. Additionally, as a 2002 model these 4.2 engines have an oil temperature sensor that I can monitor with an OBD2 adapter and a phone app.

If my oil temperature rises above about 190 to 195°F that is when I will have a low pressure situation at idle. Like yours I see 8 to 10 at a normal warm idle.

My idle has always been a steady 620 or so.

It is worth noting the service manuals state the test specification for oil pressure is 12 psi at 1200 rpm. Well at least that is what my memory comes up with.
One more quick question. Where did you mount the mechanical oil pressure gauge in the cab and how did you route the line to it?
 

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