I was surprised to find screws like that at Home Depot. Take a screw with you and match up. I also have a fastener store in my area.
Front Defroster Suddenly Ticks
- Thread starter l008com
- Start date
I'm 6'2", 280 lbs, 61 years old, not as flexible as I used to be, and I replaced my defrost actuator multiple times yesterday. Removed the bottom cover, knee bolster and plastic foot air duct and had plenty of space. Was kneeling from outside the truck on a pad, reaching up with my left hand with a ratchet with my elbow resting on the brake pedal, all by feel.
Ok, I gotta ask, why did you replace it to begin with and why "multiple times"? Was it just to do it and be able to advise accordingly or just for fun? Applause to you, no matter why.
Ok update time. I eventually found the screw, it was on top of a big bundle of wires on the center console, below the hvac controls... ugh.
Ok so I installed it, I got it all back together, I pulled all four HVAC fuses to give it another reset, and the end result.....
No more clicking. But it also can't change from vent to floor. Its always on vent. No matter what. So thats fun. I use floor the most, so thats going to be a bummer in the winter when my feet are freezing and the best I can do is hot air in my face. But I don't think I'm going to tear this thing apart again. That was worse than doing spark plugs and V8 spark plugs are a pain in the ass.
Unless someone has a magic easy fix for this one?
I was able to reach up with no actuator and feel the gear for the door, and pretty easily move it.
I ASSUME the actuator is interfaced with the door properly but its impossible to see to confirm. But its bolted down tight which I would think would be impossible if it wasn't seated properly. I suppose the whole actuator could be oriented the wrong way, but the plug seemed to be in the right spot so I dunno.
I'm going to go look at new 4runners on the internet now.
Ok so I installed it, I got it all back together, I pulled all four HVAC fuses to give it another reset, and the end result.....
No more clicking. But it also can't change from vent to floor. Its always on vent. No matter what. So thats fun. I use floor the most, so thats going to be a bummer in the winter when my feet are freezing and the best I can do is hot air in my face. But I don't think I'm going to tear this thing apart again. That was worse than doing spark plugs and V8 spark plugs are a pain in the ass.
Unless someone has a magic easy fix for this one?
I was able to reach up with no actuator and feel the gear for the door, and pretty easily move it.
I ASSUME the actuator is interfaced with the door properly but its impossible to see to confirm. But its bolted down tight which I would think would be impossible if it wasn't seated properly. I suppose the whole actuator could be oriented the wrong way, but the plug seemed to be in the right spot so I dunno.
I'm going to go look at new 4runners on the internet now.
I looked at 4Runners for a bit. If I was gonna get one, it would be a 2008 or 2009. Best years. But my big ass needs room, so would be a Sequoia with a 4.7 V8.
Try doing another reset on the a/c system. There are also sometimes 2 or 3 different reset types to do.
Go for it. If you want to pay all that money and lose close to half the value when you drive it off the lot and the higher insurance and the extras you will be bombarded with at the finance table and the list of things you have to do to keep it in warranty, then by all means, do it.
Your frustration is because of wanting to do it yourself and not being able to do it, in one easy step. I been in shops close to 45 years and I been around the block and I still run in to "stumpers" sometimes. If you have the money to buy a new 4Runner, you can have a qualified shop do the repairs and if the existing "2008 SWB V8 LT" meets your needs, then do so and move on. Afterall, this same vehicle did not change overnight and get any worse to work on than when you originally bought it.
Only you can make the decision to keep trying or give up and buy new. There are plenty of 4Runner forums out there.
Your frustration is because of wanting to do it yourself and not being able to do it, in one easy step. I been in shops close to 45 years and I been around the block and I still run in to "stumpers" sometimes. If you have the money to buy a new 4Runner, you can have a qualified shop do the repairs and if the existing "2008 SWB V8 LT" meets your needs, then do so and move on. Afterall, this same vehicle did not change overnight and get any worse to work on than when you originally bought it.
Only you can make the decision to keep trying or give up and buy new. There are plenty of 4Runner forums out there.
The truck is 18 years old and has a lot more problems than just this stupid hvac actuator. Its starting to rust, the transmission is getting cranky, its had an engine light on for years with multiple codes. Its time is running short, and with the insane high priced of used toyotas, it really makes more sense to buy new. Even though those are also insanely overpriced.
Also, I just opened up the old actuator to see what was causing the clicking, and it seems fine. Lots of gears in there, but they all move, the motor moves, everything seems to move freely, nothing broken, no plastic bits in the teeth. if you remove the first gear between the motor and the rest of the pack, then you can move the lever and all of those other gears move right along.
Started a few weeks ago, my HVAC was staying on defrost. I erroneously replaced the mode actuator with a new "el-cheapo" one, reset the system and it worked fine for a while. Later, it was doing it again staying stuck on defrost. Going through this thread, I realized I replaced the wrong oneOk, I gotta ask, why did you replace it to begin with and why "multiple times"? Was it just to do it and be able to advise accordingly or just for fun? Applause to you, no matter why.
. I had another really "el-cheapo", tried that one, reset and nothing. Wouldn't even move. Then installed the old mode actuator (minus the gear) on it after realigning the gears inside. It worked but the "commanded" and "actual" position numbers didn't jive. Pulled it out again, realigned the gears again, reinstalled, reset and same. Decided to button it all up and send it. Will likely have to replace it again later, maybe with the first "el-cheapo" (A-Premium).
Check for the main gear for the shaft to be cracked. Sometimes it's just a hairline fracture.
BTW, found another awesome thread on this subject that I added to the FAQ.
Nope, no cracks, it really looks perfect.
I guess its also possible its an electronics failture. Something that a reset can't fix and it was just pushing past its limit because the board is failed.
I guess its also possible its an electronics failture. Something that a reset can't fix and it was just pushing past its limit because the board is failed.
Update:
So driving around more, I've noticed some behaviors.
It still clicks, but exactly once, when you start up the truck. One click then it stops.
And if you switch between vent and floor, you can hear it trying to do something - but without any clicks.
It really feels it just needs to recalibrate itself. Either that, or I needed to somehow orient it differently when I installed it.
So driving around more, I've noticed some behaviors.
It still clicks, but exactly once, when you start up the truck. One click then it stops.
And if you switch between vent and floor, you can hear it trying to do something - but without any clicks.
It really feels it just needs to recalibrate itself. Either that, or I needed to somehow orient it differently when I installed it.
It's possible the gear wasn't in the right position when installed. When installing, it has to be in the middle position with the marks on the gear aligned with the lines on the actuator.
Try a reset/relearn first:
Try a reset/relearn first:
Pull the HVAC-B fuse for about 10 seconds, put it back, turn the key to RUN but don't start, don't touch HVAC controls while it calibrates the actuators. Should just be a couple minutes.
And thus the link to the FAQ is created
And thus the link to the FAQ is created
Isn't the mode door the one with the external gear? That gear has to be timed correctly with the mating door gear. I remember doing that when I had the entire dash removed but it was fairly easy under that circumstance. The mode door is either spring loaded or gravity loaded and is naturally in one position (upper vents or floor, not sure which) without the actuator engaged and has to be held in the mid position while installing the actuator in its mid position. Not easy to do without all the stuff out of the way, I'm sure somebody has written up a procedure for this.
Found this over at the old site:
But, instead of plugging it in and let it run through the full range of motion, which could break the actuator, use a 9-12V power supply or battery to move it as per this video:
I'd also look at the gear on the HVAC mode door to see its relative position of that gear to what the gear on the actuator would be.
But, instead of plugging it in and let it run through the full range of motion, which could break the actuator, use a 9-12V power supply or battery to move it as per this video:
I'd also look at the gear on the HVAC mode door to see its relative position of that gear to what the gear on the actuator would be.
So that was weird. I did the reset again last night. But I did it the way the post above said. Just pulling HVAC B. Maybe pulling all four HVAC fuses somehow caused new problems or something?
So I hop in, turn the key, don't start it, and it just starts clicking away like crazy. After a few minutes, it stopped. I sat there playing with my phone, and after a while, it started again. And kept going for a few minutes. It did this four times, clicking like crazy each time. Eventually I gave up and just drove home. It doesn't seem to have worked though, I'm getting slight airflow from the vent and nothing from the floor.
I'm curious whats going to happen tomorrow when I turn it on. I want to give up, but I know on my last S10 blazer, "floor" broke and it was brutal driving that thing in the winter, my feet were always frozen. Ugh.
So I hop in, turn the key, don't start it, and it just starts clicking away like crazy. After a few minutes, it stopped. I sat there playing with my phone, and after a while, it started again. And kept going for a few minutes. It did this four times, clicking like crazy each time. Eventually I gave up and just drove home. It doesn't seem to have worked though, I'm getting slight airflow from the vent and nothing from the floor.
I'm curious whats going to happen tomorrow when I turn it on. I want to give up, but I know on my last S10 blazer, "floor" broke and it was brutal driving that thing in the winter, my feet were always frozen. Ugh.
When the old actuator was off, did you reach in and verify free movement at the door?
I'm pretty sure I did. It felt like thats what I was touching and it felt like it was moving. But i couldn't SEE anything so who knows what i was actually touching
Clicking means the actuator's internal gears are skipping and possibly broken. I can't see the big white gear doing this. Make sure which actuator is doing it. Could be another actuator that died. Even if the gears aren't lined up properly with the sensor gear, it would just stop at whatever range of motion it's at.
Rechecked your first post. It said it was Defrost that would do the clicking. How did we end up at the floor/dash mode actuator? Check what happens when you command defrost and back to floor. Then go from floor to vent. Put one finger on the defrost actuator and another on the mode actuator. Stethoscope could be deceiving if it's picking up the noise from the bad actuator on the other actuator. By feel at the same time, you will be able to tell which one is vibrating with the clicking.
Rechecked your first post. It said it was Defrost that would do the clicking. How did we end up at the floor/dash mode actuator? Check what happens when you command defrost and back to floor. Then go from floor to vent. Put one finger on the defrost actuator and another on the mode actuator. Stethoscope could be deceiving if it's picking up the noise from the bad actuator on the other actuator. By feel at the same time, you will be able to tell which one is vibrating with the clicking.
It turns out the clicking was not when turning on defrost, but when taking it OFF of floor. And I'm pretty sure its the floor actuator. Not only did I get my fingers on it while it was clicking, but I unplugged it and the clicking stopped. Which is what I might be doing again.
Ok I've been ignoring this problem all month but its really starting to drive me crazy so I need to get back to it, but I'm not sure what to do at this point?
I'm going to unplug the actuator I replaced, to re-confirm that it is the one clicking.
Then I'm going to remove it and confirm that the door it moves does move freely. Which I also already did.
But assuming I get the same results for both of those tests, I'm not sure what to do next?
I'm going to unplug the actuator I replaced, to re-confirm that it is the one clicking.
Then I'm going to remove it and confirm that the door it moves does move freely. Which I also already did.
But assuming I get the same results for both of those tests, I'm not sure what to do next?
I'm going to try to work on this tomorrow if we get a break from the rain.
Regarding resetting the system, and pulling fuses . . . If I just disconnect the negative battery terminal, I assume that will reset the whole system fully, right? If so, maybe I'll just start with that so I know for sure I tried to fix it in software, before I start yanking actuators again. It was so hard to get my hands way up there.
Regarding resetting the system, and pulling fuses . . . If I just disconnect the negative battery terminal, I assume that will reset the whole system fully, right? If so, maybe I'll just start with that so I know for sure I tried to fix it in software, before I start yanking actuators again. It was so hard to get my hands way up there.
Yes, disconnecting the battery will reset the system. That's why a lot of people try to avoid doing this so as to not induce an actuator failure when it sweeps all of them from stop to stop for the relearn. They're just delaying the inevitable.
Ok update time.
I did the hardest of resets last night. I disconnected the battery for probably 10 or 15 minutes. Reconnected, started it up, let it do its think for 5 minutes, then jumped in and drove home.
The amount of clicking seemed to be greatly reduced. Possibly (though not sure about this) completely stopped.
HOWEVER . . .
It still doesn't work! If I put it on Floor, it still ONLY comes out Vent. When I put it on Vent, it comes out Vent. When I put it on Floor/Vent, it only comes out Vent.
After re-reading this thread, and looking at the diagram again, I'm pretty confident that I replaced the correct actuator.
Any ideas where to go from here? Should I just try replacing it again with another one?
I feel like I should at least remove the actuator one more time and verify that the door its moving, does move freely - even though I did do this the first time.
Here's a RockAuto search result for the part number:
I got the Dorman one with the heart. There is also a GM Genuine one for $54. Pricey but if I KNEW it would fix it, I'd pay it, install it, and be done with it. But thats a lot for a hail mary part replacement.
I did the hardest of resets last night. I disconnected the battery for probably 10 or 15 minutes. Reconnected, started it up, let it do its think for 5 minutes, then jumped in and drove home.
The amount of clicking seemed to be greatly reduced. Possibly (though not sure about this) completely stopped.
HOWEVER . . .
It still doesn't work! If I put it on Floor, it still ONLY comes out Vent. When I put it on Vent, it comes out Vent. When I put it on Floor/Vent, it only comes out Vent.
After re-reading this thread, and looking at the diagram again, I'm pretty confident that I replaced the correct actuator.
Any ideas where to go from here? Should I just try replacing it again with another one?
I feel like I should at least remove the actuator one more time and verify that the door its moving, does move freely - even though I did do this the first time.
Here's a RockAuto search result for the part number:
RockAuto | All The Parts Your Car Will Ever Need
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I got the Dorman one with the heart. There is also a GM Genuine one for $54. Pricey but if I KNEW it would fix it, I'd pay it, install it, and be done with it. But thats a lot for a hail mary part replacement.
Mooseman you mentioned at one point that maybe the gear wasn't positioned right when I installed the actuator, which seems possible given the behabior. I have no idea, I didn't check beforehand and I don't think I took any pictures of the part before installing. If I remove the actuator, is there a way I can 'reset' it so it's lined up and reinstall it?
I bet it would be pretty easy for me to figure out what was going on if I could actually SEE any of these parts while they are trying to move. I wonder what would happen if I pushed on the mode door while the actuator was trying to move it.
I bet it would be pretty easy for me to figure out what was going on if I could actually SEE any of these parts while they are trying to move. I wonder what would happen if I pushed on the mode door while the actuator was trying to move it.
Ok update time. I tore it all apart again last night, here's what I found.
First off, I am 100% certain the skipping is coming from the actuator I replaced. I put my fingers on it and turned the key, you can see and feel that its coming from there.
I am also 100% sure that the door opens freely. I put my fingers on the gear with the actuator removed and could very easily open and close the door.
I then opened up the new actuator, pulled out the gear closest to the motor to confirm that all the rest of the gears all turn freely and properly, and they do. I also reset the alignment so the notches in the shaft line up with the lines on the plastic case.
I re-assembled everything, making sure the actuator was installed properly and fully seated.
I disconnected the battery again, let it sit, reconnected, turned on ignition power, let it click away for a few minutes while I was in another room, then I went back.
End result:
It doesn't seem to click anymore. But also I still can't change from vent to floor. It feels like its stuck in between, with some air coming out floor and some vent.
What else could possibly be going on?
I also facetimed myself, phone to my ipad, so i could get a look at the gear and i took screenshots.
Any other ideas? At this point, I don't know what is going on in there. I'm tempted to reassemble the original actuator and climb under there and reinstall it just to see what happens. BUT i'm not going to do that because I don't have a garage, I had to borrow my uncles last night and it was 107° in there.
So unless someone else has another idea, I might just unplug this actuator and give up on it. Unplug because I assume even though its not clicking now, it will start to eventually.
First off, I am 100% certain the skipping is coming from the actuator I replaced. I put my fingers on it and turned the key, you can see and feel that its coming from there.
I am also 100% sure that the door opens freely. I put my fingers on the gear with the actuator removed and could very easily open and close the door.
I then opened up the new actuator, pulled out the gear closest to the motor to confirm that all the rest of the gears all turn freely and properly, and they do. I also reset the alignment so the notches in the shaft line up with the lines on the plastic case.
I re-assembled everything, making sure the actuator was installed properly and fully seated.
I disconnected the battery again, let it sit, reconnected, turned on ignition power, let it click away for a few minutes while I was in another room, then I went back.
End result:
It doesn't seem to click anymore. But also I still can't change from vent to floor. It feels like its stuck in between, with some air coming out floor and some vent.
What else could possibly be going on?
I also facetimed myself, phone to my ipad, so i could get a look at the gear and i took screenshots.
Any other ideas? At this point, I don't know what is going on in there. I'm tempted to reassemble the original actuator and climb under there and reinstall it just to see what happens. BUT i'm not going to do that because I don't have a garage, I had to borrow my uncles last night and it was 107° in there.
So unless someone else has another idea, I might just unplug this actuator and give up on it. Unplug because I assume even though its not clicking now, it will start to eventually.
Sorry for not responding. I was on vacation all week.
I miss the old cable actuated controls. They just worked.
I think this is where your problem lies. It has been said that if electricity or electronics are involved, DORMAN are junk. I have a similar problem with my defrost actuator however it doesn't click. It just blows onto the windshield when not commanded to. It did turn off defrost when I played around with the controls. I replaced it a while ago with a cheapo A-Premium. I'm too cheap to pay the price for the GM one. I may go to the yard and pull some used ones to find a working one.
I miss the old cable actuated controls. They just worked.
Quoted from my post #55 earlier:
Did you double check the gear timing of the actuator with the external gear attached to the door? Of the 5 actuators this is the only one that has to be timed correctly with an external gear.
Did you double check the gear timing of the actuator with the external gear attached to the door? Of the 5 actuators this is the only one that has to be timed correctly with an external gear.
As much as you can given that you have to work by touch. I did reset the actuators gear to be lined up with the vertical marks on the case before reinstalling it.
Okay, here's another idea. Have you seen these:
Something to try would be to use the original actuator, replacing the gear with the Amazon kit. In most cases the failure point on these actuators is that gear. I suppose the electronics can fail but I haven't personally run into that, either on my own or from all the other posts I've seen. Put the new gear in and re-do all the gear alignments, more than likely the electronics will be fine.
Amazon.com: GM Blend/Mode Air Door Actuator Gear Rebuild Kit (Fits Chevy, GMC and more 1990-2013): Automotive
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Something to try would be to use the original actuator, replacing the gear with the Amazon kit. In most cases the failure point on these actuators is that gear. I suppose the electronics can fail but I haven't personally run into that, either on my own or from all the other posts I've seen. Put the new gear in and re-do all the gear alignments, more than likely the electronics will be fine.
I already took the original actuator apart, the gears all look perfect, I cannot find any damage whatsoever.