Firearms

Chickenhawk

Hobbyist
Dec 6, 2011
742
How many safety rules can three people break at any one time?
- The person responsible for the safety of all cast and crew grabbed a gun off a table without checking it.
- An actor took his word that it was unloaded. It wasn't.
- Most serious, the armorer who's job it was to keep everyone safe around the firearms, actually BROUGHT A LOADED GUN TO SET, in direct violation of every single firearms safety rule in the film industry.

This was not a "tragic accident with blanks" like the producer/actor would like us to believe. This was a gun loaded with live ammunition on a film set.
Sad.
https://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2021-10-22/explainer-guns-on-movie-sets-how-does-that-work
 

TollKeeper

Guru
Dec 3, 2011
7,159
Brighton, CO
How many safety rules can three people break at any one time?
- The person responsible for the safety of all cast and crew grabbed a gun off a table without checking it.
- An actor took his word that it was unloaded. It wasn't.
- Most serious, the armorer who's job it was to keep everyone safe around the firearms, actually BROUGHT A LOADED GUN TO SET, in direct violation of every single firearms safety rule in the film industry.

This was not a "tragic accident with blanks" like the producer/actor would like us to believe. This was a gun loaded with live ammunition on a film set.
Sad.
https://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2021-10-22/explainer-guns-on-movie-sets-how-does-that-work
Brandon Lee died the same way on the set of the The Crow.
 

Mooseman

Master Blaster
Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
23,291
Ottawa, ON
Shades of Brandon Lee. Devastating for all involved. I was also shocked that in this day and age that something like this could happen ever again. The inexperience of the armorer was also exposed as well as the crew's safety concerns hours prior to the incident. Might go all the way to the film's management who put safety behind everything else and hired an inexperienced armorer.
 

northcreek

Guru
Jan 15, 2012
3,031
WNY
Some of this is on Baldwin too, I mean wouldn't you just tilt her up and glance to see if any lead was showing ? (the news shows this being a revolver ).
Even with blanks they generally shoot off target because unburned powder and stuff can smart.
 

Mooseman

Master Blaster
Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
23,291
Ottawa, ON
I remember this actor who accidentally shot himself with a blank.


And in recent years, I've noticed that even the use of blanks has been reduced where they use CGI for the muzzle flash. You can tell when the recoil is not there or faked.

I can see the rules surrounding the on-set use of real guns even more strictly controlled and reduced.
 

Chickenhawk

Hobbyist
Dec 6, 2011
742
The difference between what happened with Brandon Lee and what happened with Halyna Hutchins was that with Brandon Lee, the production was at fault for sending the firearms expert home early because there was only one more gunshot to go, and the props assistant could handle it for the final two weeks of shooting. But it was more a cumulative chain of errors, and no one knew better.

For example, they made dummy cartridges for a close-up shot by dumping out the powder and crimping the bullet back into an empty case. Because the expert was gone, no one told them the primer still has enough energy to push a bullet an inch or two into the barrel. Someone pulled the trigger thinking they were harmless, and didn't notice that faint 'click' of what all of us know in the firearms business is a primer pop. One week later, they loaded it with a blank but there was no one there to CHECK THE BARREL, and no one there to tell the actor Michael Massee to aim slightly to the side. The production was negligent by sending the expert home early, but it was a long chain of errors. If they had learned the PROVE procedure, he would still be alive today.

PROVE saves lives.

In the situation of the "Rust" shooting, they knew full well what they were doing and they deliberately broke all the rules and procedures in place that would have saved her life.

The armorer brought live ammunition to set because she loved to show off her quick-draw prowess to the crew. She was also extremely inexperienced. Live ammunition is NEVER allowed on a film set, plus there are hundreds of safety checks and safety steps done every done on every gun to make sure this never happens. They skipped all those.

The First AD grabbed a gun off the table - which is not his job, and is NEVER done on a film set - and handed it to the actor without checking. He told the actor it was a "cold" gun, meaning empty of all blanks.

The actor Alec Baldwin was lining up a shot toward the camera in a rehearsal. For some reason he pulled the trigger thinking it was empty. He probably cocked the hammer to rehearse his draw from the holster and thinking it was empty, pulled the trigger.

While the actor was not directly at fault here, it should be noted that as a producer, HE (along with the other producers) made the decision to hire someone inexperienced and cheap. HE was the one who hadn't paid his crew in 7 weeks. HE was the one who refused accommodation, and when they insisted, HE was the one who put them up in some dirty hooker motel and forced them to sleep in their cars instead. HE was the one who refused to respond to complaint after complaint after complaint about abusive hours and unsafe gun handling practices on set.

The morning of the incident, his entire union camera crew walked off the job, citing hours and safety. HE was the one who replaced them with local non-union hires and local film students.

The big difference here is that three people were deliberately, grossly (and probably criminally) negligent. They KNEW better, and they still violated every safety rule about firearms in film and firearms handling in general.

A sobering lesson for us all, especially those of us who use firearms.

Again, the PROVE procedure would have saved her life.
 
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Mooseman

Master Blaster
Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
23,291
Ottawa, ON
However, in both cases, it was decisions at the top that started the chains of events that lead to their deaths. Heads will likely roll in this instance even if it is a big name actor/producer.
 

Chickenhawk

Hobbyist
Dec 6, 2011
742
Productions that don't want to pay the cost of hiring a professional, are going to be SHOCKED at the cost of hiring an amateur.

In this case, jail time and $millions.

I always say that amateurs practice until they get it right. Professionals practice until they can't get it wrong.

If people don't understand what that means, I explain it this way. "If you were a skydiver, would you want your parachute packed by the amateur who finally got it right after ten tries, or the professional who hasn't got it wrong in 30 years?"
 

Mooseman

Master Blaster
Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
23,291
Ottawa, ON
Just heard on the news that cops have seized over 500 blank, dummy and LIVE rounds. Again, the question is, what are LIVE rounds doing anywhere near a movie set?
 

Chickenhawk

Hobbyist
Dec 6, 2011
742
Just heard on the news that cops have seized over 500 blank, dummy and LIVE rounds. Again, the question is, what are LIVE rounds doing anywhere near a movie set?
The crew was target shooting in the desert that morning. The armorer is also a cowboy action shooter who competes in fast-draw contests so my guess is she likes to show off a lot.

She forgot to unload her gun; the 1st AD grabbed it off the table because he was in a hurry and told Baldwin it was a "cold" gun, meaning empty of all blanks. Baldwin didn't check it himself when he practiced his draw and fired the shot towards the camera where Halyna and the director were setting up the shot in the camera during a rehearsal.

The FBI will likely reveal by tomorrow that the projectile was a lead .38-calibre bullet of .357 inches in diameter, or (more likely) a .45-calibre bullet of .451 inches in diameter, and fired from a Colt revolver chambered for .45 Colt ammunition.

Three people did a bunch of things grossly and criminally negligent, and they (plus a lot of other "links" in a long and sad chain of circumstances) and the industry reels. People forget the hundreds of thousands of films that have been made safely with firearms for decades because of strict safety protocols.

Banning real guns will only serve to achieve the opposite effect. The industry needs trained professionals handling firearms or anything that even looks like a firearm. If they ban guns, producers can now hire the cheapest, lowest-paid and least experienced props assistant to legally handle the fake firearms, with no licences, training or skills whatsoever. They won't even know how to open the action to check for BBs or pellets and I bet they don't even know to notify police about the fake firearms or even how to train the actors in how to hold them.

Anyone who thinks some producers won't try to save money by hiring the lowest paid people they can, they should read these articles again. 16 hour days; accommodation in a flea-bag hooker motel; no paycheque for seven weeks; numerous gun safety violations; there is a good reason why the entire union camera crew walked off the set that morning. Sad situation.
 

Mooseman

Master Blaster
Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
23,291
Ottawa, ON
It's already happening. The set of "The Rookie" has already switched to fake guns and the actors are already saying they're feeling safer for it. The quality of the action scenes may suffer though. I used to see it on "The Walking Dead" with the fake recoils and muzzle flash. Used to irritate me seeing it but it is a safer way of doing it.
 
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Chickenhawk

Hobbyist
Dec 6, 2011
742
It's already happening. The set of "The Rookie" has already switched to fake guns and the actors are already saying they're feeling safer for it. The quality of the action scenes may suffer though. I used to see it on "The Walking Dead" with the fake recoils and muzzle flash. Used to irritate me seeing it but it is a safer way of doing it.
It irritates me too, especially when there is no one there to tell the actor not to take the plastic replica and 'toss' it in the air in some misplaced idea of what recoil should look like. I am not sure I would label it "safer" however, when hundreds of thousands of movies have been made safely with firearms since their first appearance on a film in 1903. Maybe, hire the right people, make sure they are following deeply-ingrained industry safety practices and don't hire one person to do two separate jobs on a film set just to save a few dollars.

This was a guy I know on this little local television station saying exactly that.
Dave and anchor on CNN.jpg
 
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Redbeard

Guru
Jan 26, 2013
3,228
SAS use new machine gun called 'Snake' that fires two bullets at the same time https://dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/sas-new-machine-gun-called-25673138

The Star reported that the gun can even fire when one side jams.

“The great thing about the weapon is that if one side of it jams the other will still fire -- and every time you pull the trigger you are hitting the target with a double burst,” the source said.

Lasers can be added to the rifle, allowing it to have precision at 800 meters.

1640699315208.png
1640699230006.png
 

Mooseman

Master Blaster
Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
23,291
Ottawa, ON
That thing looks like something from a time traveling sci-fi movie. However, I wonder what the weight is like. You've got double everything and if you have to hold this thing all day, might make for some tired arms.
 

Chickenhawk

Hobbyist
Dec 6, 2011
742
Perfect for Stormtroopers. They can miss twice as fast!

LOL.

True story:
"How many rounds do you carry in your bear defense shotgun?"
"Four."
"Only FOUR? Why?"
"So I can bring the extra three in the magazine back to camp."
"But what if you miss with all four?"
"Then I deserve to get eaten."

My mentor was Rob Leatham. He would look at my sorry old compensated 1911 with very few gadgets, old-school 8-round mags and plain square black Novak sights, and tell me, "Dave, don't fear the person who shows up at a match with four fancy race guns. Fear the person with ONE gun and all the bluing worn off from constant draws from the holster."

I have always taken that to heart.
 

northcreek

Guru
Jan 15, 2012
3,031
WNY
If Remington's "Man Card" ad was irresponsible what about the Dodge commercial showing pre-pubic boys driving 700 hp cars like drunken sailors.
What a can of worms the lawyers have opened.... :deal:
 

Mooseman

Master Blaster
Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
23,291
Ottawa, ON
Hey, it all started with someone suing McDonald's for burning themselves with hot coffee.
 

northcreek

Guru
Jan 15, 2012
3,031
WNY
Realized that I was not in compliance with the "NY Safe Act" and my 15 round M1 Carbine magazines could get me a hefty fine. Many other states have this too, which says that you can possess 10 round magazines but, can only load 7 rounds max unless on a range....I know, stupid.
Didn't feel like paying $50ea for a GI issue mags. So I altered mine and they function perfectly.
Before these acts nobody wanted the 10s and preferred the 15s, now the 10s are like gold.
100_1821.JPG
 
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Beacon

Active Member
Mar 22, 2019
392
SouthWestern PA
For those of you who roll your own. And like to keep your brands of brass separate, this may help. I just recently started doing this, because of the size of a 10mm case and a large pistol primer leaves very little room for a head stamp.
I waited to share this until after tumbling, to be sure my idea would work. I bought these fine tip paint markers, then painted the indent of head stamp, and with a paper towel laying flat on a table, wiped off any excess paint.
Now all my cases are easily separated just by looking at the color.
IMG_20220728_221157.jpg

Here are the paint sticks

 

BrianF

Hobbyist
Jul 24, 2013
1,052
West central Sask.
So I received several old and/or unique firearms. I am slowly going through a couple at a time. All are .22 cal. This will take a while.

The first is the Belgian made Browning T Bolt. Its an X7 date code so that might be a 1967. There are a couple scratches on the stock but not bad enough that I couldn't steam them out. She has a few mags to go with it and overall is in great shape.

The next is a Cooey model 82 training rifle. Great shape and is said to have been produced in Canada during the war. I've owned a couple of Cooeys over the years. They are simplistic but fun to shoot. I like this 82 as it is a bulky full size frame.
 

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BrianF

Hobbyist
Jul 24, 2013
1,052
West central Sask.
As they trickle in. Two Anschutz single shots. The full size stock looks to be 1965 and the youth model i could not date off the hop. I had seen similar rifles in a 1963 ad. The 65 has a stamped trigger while the youth has machined.

Both are pretty much perfect, just beautiful shape.

Now the next is a FN Browning takedown rifle. Its a semi auto repeater with a butt mounted tube mag. Its in pretty decent shape but as I was gooning my way through it, I lost the ball detent for the takedown lock. Well shit! Oh well I guess, I will have to source a small ball bearing. I need to find a date code on it yet. There is no serial so apparently thats 1914 to 1956.
 

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BrianF

Hobbyist
Jul 24, 2013
1,052
West central Sask.
Since we scratched the surface on this new collection, here are the next three. We have a Cooey Canuck, Savage 1904 and the Stevens Little Scout 14 1/2.

All are in great shape but the signature peice in this lot is the Stevens. Its a rolling block manufactured between 1911 and 1933 (according to my reference book). Now there is no serial number or date code. Mine appears to fall after 1916 or so when the stevens company information stamped on the barrel changed and not after 1920 when Savage bought out Stevens. Mine does not have the SVG stamped on the receiver.

The Stevens has a blued barrel and the receiver is as is from the case hardening. The action is tight and smooth. They are chambered for .22 short, long and LR but recommend only low velocity shorts when using modern ammo. Apparently the action can pound out and become sloppy. Only found a hint of rust and pitting where the tip of the forestock touches the barrel.
 

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mrrsm

Lifetime VIP Donor
Oct 22, 2015
6,275
Tampa Bay Area
At my age... Pushing 74 now... I can't be scrapping around with anyone harboring any "Bad Intentions" like I did when I was Young, Strong, Trained and Prepared and carrying a Badge & Gun either on Patrol, or as a Canine Officer or later on, as a Detective during my 25 year long career.

And just as in the past, I recently had to deal with a sketchy situation at 2:30 in the morning in my front yard (In The Dead of Night). But you should know that I can still get seriously persuasive with anyone who decides that acting Stupid and Dangerous around ME is ever going to get them anywhere.

So just like on other similar occasions, it only took me a scant moment or two to "Slip into Something Much MORE ... Comfortable" ...and NO... I DON'T mean anything like Veronica Lake had in mind:

GLOCK17CROSSDRAW8.jpg

You can well imagine how surprised any Man might be after seeing ME... suddenly appearing out from the edge of my living room bay window; emerging from cover and concealment from behind the curtains.

Imagine the look on his face just after I've yanked "Old Ironsides" clean out of my Cross-Draw Holster from under my left arm, and then lightly tapped the slide of my Glock 17 upon the Bay Window Pane while grinning at him from Ear to Ear...

Tap...Tap...Tap... "Hello... Jackass..." ]^)


You know... It's always a "Win-Win" situation whenever you can watch an Intruder slowly raising their hands as they back down and away from your sidewalk and then RUN LIKE HELL.. just like the Class "A" Moron in THIS video SHOULD have been doing. And so I'll paraphrase my intentions with MY Intruder from the Title of The Video:

"THIS... is Why I ALWAYS Carry A GUN..."


Even at my age, I've never gotten out of The Habit of Practicing while Putting On this "Rig" Very Quickly... But NOT Doing Quick Draws from that Holster!!! I just want to be prepared whenever 'Things Are Beginning To Go Sideways...'

"You should always have a Plan to Survive, Because... There is NO Second Place ...in a Gun Fight..."
 
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Redbeard

Guru
Jan 26, 2013
3,228
You are so right about neighbors!
Even at my age, I've never gotten out of The Habit of Practicing while Putting On this "Rig" Very Quickly... But NOT Doing Quick Draws from that Holster!!! I just want to be prepared whenever 'Things Are Beginning To Go Sideways...'

"You should always have a Plan to Survive, Because... There is NO Second Place ...in a Gun Fight..."
Which reminds me of a story:

WHY GRAMPS CARRIES A GUN


My old grandpa said to me 'Son, there comes a time in every man's life
when he stops bustin' knuckles and starts bustin' caps and usually it's
when he becomes too old to take a whoopin.'


I don't carry a gun to kill people.
I carry a gun to keep from being killed.

I don't carry a gun to scare people.
I carry a gun because sometimes this world can be a scary place.

I don't carry a gun because I'm paranoid.
I carry a gun because there are real threats in the world.

I don't carry a gun because I'm evil.
I carry a gun because I have lived long enough to see the evil in the world.

I don't carry a gun because I hate the government.
I carry a gun because I understand the limitations of government.

I don't carry a gun because I'm angry.
I carry a gun so that I don't have to spend the rest of my life hating myself for failing to be prepared.

I don't carry a gun because I want to shoot someone.
I carry a gun because I want to die at a ripe old age in my bed, and not on a sidewalk somewhere tomorrow afternoon.

I don't carry a gun because I'm a cowboy.
I carry a gun because, when I die and go to heaven, I want to be a cowboy.

I don't carry a gun to make me feel like a man.
I carry a gun because men know how to take care of themselves and the ones they love.

I don't carry a gun because I feel inadequate.
I carry a gun because unarmed and facing three armed thugs, I am inadequate...

I don't carry a gun because I love it.
I carry a gun because I love life and the people who make it meaningful to me.

Police protection is an oxymoron.
Free citizens must protect themselves.

Police do not protect you from crime, they usually just investigate the crime after it happens and then call someone in to clean up the mess.

Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take an "ass" whoopin'....
.author unknown (but obviously brilliant)​
 
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mrrsm

Lifetime VIP Donor
Oct 22, 2015
6,275
Tampa Bay Area
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BrianF

Hobbyist
Jul 24, 2013
1,052
West central Sask.
Seeing as I haven't had the time to continue the firearm inventory just yet, I took this girl out for a little oil and inspection. My wife got it for me over 11 years ago for an anniversary present. Has the original box, packaging materials and pamphlets. It cost a pretty penny, so I'm told.
 

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Chickenhawk

Hobbyist
Dec 6, 2011
742
Seeing as I haven't had the time to continue the firearm inventory just yet, I took this girl out for a little oil and inspection. My wife got it for me over 11 years ago for an anniversary present. Has the original box, packaging materials and pamphlets. It cost a pretty penny, so I'm told.
Interesting. If the serial number begins with "MP" it is a rare rifle sold only to RCMP members at the time. If it begins with "RCMP," it was one sold to the general public. There were about 10,000 made.
 

BrianF

Hobbyist
Jul 24, 2013
1,052
West central Sask.
No this isn't the MP one, those are quite hard to find. My dad told me about when those came out and how expensive they were. He couldn't afford one then.
 

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