04 TB temperature needle drifts to the right when going up a hill

[gica]

Today I did the same thing as yesterday but no AC. So on the freeway the temps went from 190.4 at 70mph to 201 at stand still. When I went up the same steep hill the temps went no further than 201. Again short hill. It seems like temp are at least 10 points lower now. At least have to look on the thread to see what they were before.

 

[gica]

Isn't 190⁰ a bit low I thought that's what causes the car to run rich or lean forget which.

 

[gmcman]

Oh this AC fan is really tight cannot spin it freely by hand like the other one. The air has nothing to do with it. This is all belt driven and some computer driven. The other fans were cheap ones and the belt did not spin them properly too much free play. It's clear.

What fan clutch did you install? I may be wrong, but haven't heard of a normal operating fan clutch that's locked up.

190⁰ a bit low I thought that's what causes the car to run rich or lean forget which.

It's on the low side of what's considered normal by the PCM. The fact you are reaching 201 deg sounds ok.

I'm more curious about your fan that you cannot turn by hand.

 

[gica]

I bought the ACDelco from Amazon. It can be turned but not spun around freely it is pretty tight compared to the after market one. I bought 2 different fans before and both acted the same.
This one is different it is pretty tight bit it doesn't sound loud or anything sounds normal and spună a little faster, watch the video above.

ACDelco 15-40133 GM Original Equipment Engine Cooling Fan Clutch https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0016HY24G/?tag=gmtnation-20

 

[TJBaker57]

I bought the ACDelco from Amazon. It can be turned but not spun around freely it is pretty tight compared to the after market one. I bought 2 different fans before and both acted the same.
This one is different it is pretty tight bit it doesn't sound loud or anything sounds normal and spună a little faster, watch the video above.

ACDelco 15-40133 GM Original Equipment Engine Cooling Fan Clutch https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0016HY24G/?tag=gmtnation-20

Out of curiosity...have you tried spinning the fan when engine is not fully warmed up and you rev up to 2000 rpm for a couple minutes to fully disengage the clutch? I would be very interested in that test

 

[gica]

So I am in Palm Springs 109 outside temp and the car has gradually gone up in temp.
With 6 people crammed in and both ACs on it gradually went up to around 219.

 

[gica]

And so on.

 

[TJBaker57]

View attachment 95798View attachment 95799View attachment 95800View attachment 95801
And so on.

Of course I would add cooling fan speed to one of those display screens!

 

[gmcman]

Your temps look about right, especially given the ambient.

 

[Mooseman]

It's at 221f that it would really start spinning the fan and even moreso at 232f.

 

[gica]

Of course I would add cooling fan speed to one of those display screens!

Working on doing that.

 

[gica]

Out of curiosity...have you tried spinning the fan when engine is not fully warmed up and you rev up to 2000 rpm for a couple minutes to fully disengage the clutch? I would be very interested in that test

Ok so run the engine at 2k rpm for 2min and of course turn off ignition and Try to spin. Right?

 

[TJBaker57]

Ok so run the engine at 2k rpm for 2min and of course turn off ignition and Try to spin. Right?

Correct Assuming the fan is commanded off by the PCM, running it for a couple minutes at about 2k should get the fluid back into the reservoir and the fan should then be as free spinning as it can be.

 

[gica]

So today I took the same router as yesterday and of course the engine temps went up to 223⁰ again. The AC was on .

 

[gica]

So going it went up but coming back I didn't use AC and temps stayed at 210 and 212. Sometimes at the light it went to 214. But as soon as AC was on it went up to 219.

 

[gica]

Watch the AC Delco Fan video to see fan spinning by hand after the car was stopped and heat was at around 119 or 117.

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

 

[gica]

On the above link look at the ShowingTemps one

 

[TJBaker57]

Everything I am seeing looks like normal operation here. The fan is doing what the PCM is asking. The fan spin test looks normal to me. 22X is not overheating, especially at very high ambient temps. Look at the program charts above. They don't really ramp up the fan speed till hotter than 230.

 

[gica]

So you're saying the climb to 226⁰ is normal in that climate. I have a friend with an 07 Chevy Avalanche and he towed a boat to Laughlin in similar climate as Palm Springs and going uphill he never saw his gauge passed half no AC. He has a different engine at 5 3 so who knows maybe the Trailblazer
Had it's weakness in this cooling system.

 

[Mooseman]

I agree. I just came back from towing our 5200# travel trailer in 32c/90f temp. The hottest it got was 227f on a long modest incline and settled at 222f, A/C on. Only differences are that this was with the 9-7x with the 5.3 and thermal fan. Tranny temps would pretty much follow the engine temps.

A/C plays a large part. It's like trying to cool the radiator with hot air from the condenser. I think it's been mentioned that you could wire a switch to the white wire relay leg of the fan to get 100% fan duty if you're that worried but your MPG would take a hit. I kept an eye on it but wasn't overly concerned. We have members here that live in Saudi Arabia in 50c/120f temps and aren't concerned about it.

 

[gica]

Yeah I just spoke to the above mentioned friend and the 5.3 Avalanche and he said he saw his gauge go up passed 3/4 going uphill with air on towing a small 18 footer so he immediately turned the air off. He said it happened right after I asked him to look. I guess he didn't really pay attention before.
Without air it went down but not to 210 probably around 220 or so. So it must be a general issue with lots of GM models.

 

[gica]

I have been driving the car since I changed the radiator and fan with OEM and it definitely is a lot better. First of all the P0422 is gone after 7 years of trying everything but the inlet valve which was leaking.
so I towed a dual jetski trailer up to Castaic so up and down some hills and it went to 112. that is not bad and temps outside were in the upper 90s. so I do believe the car is at its best moment in awhile.
When in Palm Springs temp went to 126 on outside temps of 109. So I guess this car I not meant for extreme weather.

 

[gica]

Hi guys summer is almost here and hope everyone is still around and well.
Yesterday I took the 20 footer 30 miles north to Castaic Lake outside temps around 88 degrees. So there was traffic and the car of course started to heat up reaching the famous 230. It really felt like there was less power trying to pick up speed when traffic took off.
Upon returning at 75 degrees the temps never went above 210 no air, same incline. Downhill they actually went down to 190.
So today I broke out the Autel Maxdas 708 bi directional and went to special functions.
was trying to get the fan to spin from command.

This was at idle 0% command for increase. Desired fan speed way below actual.

At 30% command desired was up and even though the actual fan speed showed the same it was the same fan speed as at 0% command. All at idle.
So with command at 100% fan and desired speeds stayed the same at idle.

At 100% command and 2k RPM desired speed went to 1800 and fan speed stayed at 1200.
do any of these tell you anything about the PCM and fan control?
Also noticed the Engine oil level switch Low and I have another picture of a oil measure.

Show 37.7 psi.

 

[Mooseman]

Swap the fan relay with the one for the headlights and try again. If no change, your fan clutch is dead.

 

[gica]

When cold it does make the high revving airplane sound until RPM lowers and I take off.
This is a new AC Delco fan and I also replaced with off the market fans before and they did the same thing when trying to control from the command prompt. The relays are also new and the car never heats up without a trailer. And then only if going up a hill and temps are 90 and above. I read that the fan only kicks in hard above 135F. In the parking lot with AC on I cannot stop the fan with a rag. My dilemma is why doesn't it allow control from the scanner. I have a Tech 2 clone and same thing could not get the fan to spin faster or slower, is there a certain procedure by allowing 2 min to kick in and revving at certain RPM?

 

[NJTB]

I noticed that on my Tech 2 also. The commanded speed was ~475, yet the fan was clocking 700 something.
I was just getting used to the Tech 2, figuring out what could be done with it, but do remember wondering why it did that.

 

[budwich]

I think the system is somewhat "less than rocket science"... meaning there is the "electrical calculation" and then the "viscous result", the two may not "meet in the middle" at various points and time frames... ie. if the desired speed is changed, there is a degree of "lag" for the viscous system to change / respond... along with the amount of slip... it is unlikely that the system at idle would be able to fully "slip" to a slower rpm as the viscous "hold" maybe too great to overcome regardless of what is being requested. Similarly, a high engine rpm would unlikely be translated into the same fan rpm, for the reason that of both viscous coupling and also "design intent" (ie. an engine running at 3-4k is likely moving air thru from travelling).
Further, the time lag may not always be the same depending on the current rpm and the direction of change.

Having said this, I do believe TJbaker57 has posted a "documented response test" of the sequences of "demand" versus "result".

 

[gica]

I remember earlier in this thread he asked to

Out of curiosity...have you tried spinning the fan when engine is not fully warmed up and you rev up to 2000 rpm for a couple minutes to fully disengage the clutch? I would be very interested in that test

And it did do so

I think at this point I will not get better temps no matter what I do, even if I put an extra cooing fan on the ac condenser to push more air in. It would be an adventure gone bad to pull the boat to Laughlin this summer in 110 degrees weather, even though I have done it many times before. I have a feeling I did not pay too much attention to the temp gauge back then.
So reaching 230+on hills in hot summer days or normal traffic conditions in extremely hot SoCal weather, with AC off seems to be accepted with this oldy

 

[Mooseman]

Do you have an auxiliary tranny cooler? That could take some of the heat load off the radiator's cooler and also extend its life. Another thing you could do is add a switch to send 12v+ to the relay leg that supplies the white wire to the fan clutch. This will give you 100% fan duty and pull the maximum amount of air.

Also, you do tow in 3rd gear? Towing in OD would be a source of extra heat.

 

[aaserv]

Ive had similar problems with my V-8 , various fan clutches were not helping....all aftermarket seems to be junk. Honestly I wouldnt be sure I got a quality fan by buying an ACDelco off Amazon. 1st Id be concerned about counterfeit and 2nd about low quality of ACDelco's bottom of the line parts. I thought I was doing something buying ACDelco shocks for my van.....worked good for a few weeks now they feel like they have 100K on them. I think their the same junk as Detroit Axle with another coat of black paint.
It seems to me that the replacement fans just dont have the response time when the computer calls for a change in speeds as the vehicle requires. And after very few hours of trying to keep up they just give up the ghost.. The only fan that I think works properly are the ones manufactured and labeled BEHR... These were the original equipment that came on them. And as I know Mooseman has stated many times it all comes down to an undersized radiator that they have to put in these things.
Here is what I did to mine since I have the same weather conditions as you have....Well over 95 degs for months at a time. I hooked it up to a toggle switch and turn it on as needed. Cost me all of 20 bucks and maybe 45 mins to install it. I only turn it on in heavy traffic or when idling for extended periods and it seems to keep things at the proper temps when the heat is just to much.

 

[Mooseman]

The only fan that I think works properly are the ones manufactured and labeled BEHR...

Lots of fakes out there. And even a "good" brand that we used to recommend, like Hayden, don't work as well as the original.

One additive I do recommend which can help a bit is Water Wetter. It does help with heat transfer.

 

[TJBaker57]

At 100% command and 2k RPM desired speed went to 1800 and fan speed stayed at 1200.

Big red flag right here!! At 100% commanded your fan speed should be about 120% (or 130%, can't remember) of engine speed.

Next step I would do is pull the fan relay module and test resistance from the relay/module terminal #4 socket that runs to the solenoid in the fan clutch to ground. This is to confirm a complete circuit through the fan clutches actuator valve electrics.




In a little while I will post a short video of what you should see and hear with a 2k engine rpm and a 100% fan speed command.

 

[TJBaker57]

Here's a look at my 2002 4.2 when I command the fan to 100% at about 2000 RPM.

From the Youtube description...

"This is a recording of a TrailBlazer Electro Viscous Fan Clutch being commanded to 100% with engine RPM at about 2000. The command is being sent by a custom button at bottom right of screen in Torque Pro which I have configured at 100% duty cycle for a 5 second duration. It can be seen and heard that engagement is fairly rapid but disengagement takes nearly a minute. Keep an eye on the desired fan speed vs actual fan speed."

 

[TJBaker57]

Also, the first post in this link is worth reading...

Fan clutch 101

Multiple threads have addressed Trailvoy fan clutches and (apparent) failure modes - I'll try to describe the history and detail of the clutch as well as I can for it being 3:00 am... The TB fan clutch is the first electronically controlled visco clutch to be produced. Like any other cooling...

www.trailvoy.com

 

[gica]

Do you have an auxiliary tranny cooler? That could take some of the heat load off the radiator's cooler and also extend its life. Another thing you could do is add a switch to send 12v+ to the relay leg that supplies the white wire to the fan clutch. This will give you 100% fan duty and pull the maximum amount of air.

Also, you do tow in 3rd gear? Towing in OD would be a source of extra heat.

Yes I have a cooler installed and temp was at 170ish the other day coming back from the marina towing the boat. It was in the upper 60s though since it was late evening.

Here's a look at my 2002 4.2 when I command the fan to 100% at about 2000 RPM.

From the Youtube description...

"This is a recording of a TrailBlazer Electro Viscous Fan Clutch being commanded to 100% with engine RPM at about 2000. The command is being sent by a custom button at bottom right of screen in Torque Pro which I have configured at 100% duty cycle for a 5 second duration. It can be seen and heard that engagement is fairly rapid but disengagement takes nearly a minute. Keep an eye on the desired fan speed vs actual fan speed."

So you have to keep RPM at 2k for the command to take effect? Haven't tried that with commands, did try it with jumping 4 and 5 at the relay and it worked, but not from scanner command.

 

[gica]

Ive had similar problems with my V-8 , various fan clutches were not helping....all aftermarket seems to be junk. Honestly I wouldnt be sure I got a quality fan by buying an ACDelco off Amazon. 1st Id be concerned about counterfeit and 2nd about low quality of ACDelco's bottom of the line parts. I thought I was doing something buying ACDelco shocks for my van.....worked good for a few weeks now they feel like they have 100K on them. I think their the same junk as Detroit Axle with another coat of black paint.
It seems to me that the replacement fans just dont have the response time when the computer calls for a change in speeds as the vehicle requires. And after very few hours of trying to keep up they just give up the ghost.. The only fan that I think works properly are the ones manufactured and labeled BEHR... These were the original equipment that came on them. And as I know Mooseman has stated many times it all comes down to an undersized radiator that they have to put in these things.
Here is what I did to mine since I have the same weather conditions as you have....Well over 95 degs for months at a time. I hooked it up to a toggle switch and turn it on as needed. Cost me all of 20 bucks and maybe 45 mins to install it. I only turn it on in heavy traffic or when idling for extended periods and it seems to keep things at the proper temps when the heat is just to much.

View attachment 100391

Is it the 12" fan like this one you installed?

Amazon.com: 12" High Performance Electric Cooling Fan Push Pull Radiator Engine Slim Fan 12V 80W 1730 CFM with Mounting Kit Black 12 Inch: Automotive

Been wanting to install one for awhile but some say it didn't really change much as far as temps. Were you able to really control temps to be at least at 220 or below when going uphill in 90+ up to 120 heat?

 

[TJBaker57]

So you have to keep RPM at 2k for the command to take effect?

Well no, I used the 2K in the video for several reasons.

First off, if the test is to see that the clutch is functional then doing the test at 2K is going to show that straight away. At idle there will most likely be no effect as very often the fan is already spinning at near maximum for that engine RPM. At least that has been my experience.

Secondly, it requires about 2K or better for the fan to properly disengage.

Lastly, the 2K is what you stated your test was at

 

[TJBaker57]

A thought.....

Have you pressure tested the radiator cap??

I ask this due to a recent experience of mine. I just got my TrailBlazer back together after an incident back in January. I found my coolant temps running higher than normal. Mine has always run at 206.6° F normally. I was seeing 215° to as high as 222°. Some testing revealed a bad radiator cap which resulted in higher temps due to boiling in the water jacket around the cylinders. Bubbling/foamy coolant doesn't cool like fully liquid coolant.

Changed the cap and back to my normal 206.6° F.

 

[TJBaker57]

Haven't tried that with commands, did try it with jumping 4 and 5 at the relay and it worked, but not from scanner command.

I expect this is just a typo/mistaken numbering,,, but it would be 2 & 4 to be jumped...

 

[aaserv]

I definitely havent tested the fan in towing conditions as I dont tow. I was having problems when idling for long periods and in heavy traffic and the fan seems to do the job in those conditions. At speeds above , i dont know maybe 35 or so Im not sure the fan is blowing anymore air than just regular airflow would do but for 20 bucks and an hour to install it cant hurt to try it.. And yes your link is the exact fan i bought. I had to sculp the plastice edges here and there to wedge it in but its in there so tight it almost doesnt even need any mounting.