Treadwrights

Voymom

Original poster
Member
Feb 3, 2012
2,523
I only seen one other thread solely about the Treadwrights Puma on here. I asked on the FB page, but figured I would ask here as well to give members who are not on FB a chance to answer my questions.

I'm looking at the Puma's and the Warden(D) tires. I'm wondering the quality of the tire, ride noise, traction on wet surfaces, dry surfaces, and the over all wear/lifetime. I just discovered that they were retreads, and I have never heard nor used a retread tire, so what would the differences be between a retread and non besides the obvious?

I'm not lifted, I do mud once in a while, but I am mainly looking for over all better traction, especially for winter and of course when I'm out in the storms for storm season. I'm more concerned on the traction and wear/lifetime of the tire than anything else. Ride noise is a minor factor for me, as well as the loss of fuel economy. Since I'm not lifted, how much of a difference on the speedo am I looking at?

Do I want to make sure I order the same carcass for all 5 tires? Or do the carcasses not matter?

And of course, anything else anyone can advise me on.
 

HARDTRAILZ

Moderator
Nov 18, 2011
49,665
Voymom said:
I'm looking at the Puma's and the Warden(D) tires. I'm wondering the quality of the tire, ride noise, traction on wet surfaces, dry surfaces, and the over all wear/lifetime. I just discovered that they were retreads, and I have never heard nor used a retread tire, so what would the differences be between a retread and non besides the obvious?

The carcass and sidewalls are used. They are not as pretty as other tires. The tread does not match the sidewall. Wear should be fine. The traction may be ok but I never use tires that mild.



Voymom said:
Ride noise is a minor factor for me, as well as the loss of fuel economy. Since I'm not lifted, how much of a difference on the speedo am I looking at?

I despise my 315 guard dog noise. Louder than any other mud tire except swampers, but are more annoying due to pitch than swampers. I dont know if those tread patterns in the size you desire will be quiet or not, but know that a typical tire manufactuer does account for noise when developing a tire...Treadwright does not.



Fuel econmy and speedo can not be answered unless you tell us what size you are changing to. More dataa needed.





Voymom said:
Do I want to make sure I order the same carcass for all 5 tires? Or do the carcasses not matter?

Yes or it looks like you could not afford tires and pieced a set together. Also some tires are built different than others. I would never run mismatched on purpose.
 

Voymom

Original poster
Member
Feb 3, 2012
2,523
Thank you for the awesome feedback Kyle! I guess it's on to look for a different tire then. I LOVED TW's prices, even shipping wasn't bad at all, but at this rate I should probably consider a different non-retreaded tire. I know you guys can spend upwards of $1600 for your tires, and that's a bit out of budget for us....but it is hard to find a nice rugged tire that I don't need to really budget anymore for. I have as of now an $800.00 budget and that would include shipping if I had to order them.

I'm actually surprised from the things I have read about the beefier tires not having all that great of a life as far as wear compared to something like the Fortera's I have now. Is it because the rubber is softer?
 

HARDTRAILZ

Moderator
Nov 18, 2011
49,665
Voymom said:
I know you guys can spend upwards of $1600 for your tires, and that's a bit out of budget for us....but it is hard to find a nice rugged tire that I don't need to really budget anymore for. I have as of now an $800.00 budget and that would include shipping if I had to order them.

I'm actually surprised from the things I have read about the beefier tires not having all that great of a life as far as wear compared to something like the Fortera's I have now. Is it because the rubber is softer?

$1600 is due to size not rugged. You can get an aggressive stock size for prolly in your budget. You may actually do better to go to a couple places fairly local and ask what they stock and sell mostly cause they can often give better deals on tires they routinely sell. I can get better prices on Coopers at a local pa and ma shop because that is about all they sell.

Mud tires dont last as long due to less rubber on the ground, therefore wearing faster. The rubber is often tougher and harder.

What size tire are you looking for?
 

Voymom

Original poster
Member
Feb 3, 2012
2,523
HARDTRAILZ said:
$1600 is due to size not rugged. You can get an aggressive stock size for prolly in your budget. You may actually do better to go to a couple places fairly local and ask what they stock and sell mostly cause they can often give better deals on tires they routinely sell. I can get better prices on Coopers at a local pa and ma shop because that is about all they sell.

Mud tires dont last as long due to less rubber on the ground, therefore wearing faster. The rubber is often tougher and harder.

What size tire are you looking for?

I'm wanting to do 245/75-16 or maybe even one size bigger after that. I don't have spacers and it's stock, but I am wanting to get the leveling kit as well. Basically the biggest tire/tread I can possibly do without needing spacers, lift or cutting. I do plan on the 2.5" lift possibly next spring or whenever Mat decides to lift his truck.
 

HARDTRAILZ

Moderator
Nov 18, 2011
49,665
Long lasting...Aggresive...30.5 inches tall which is all you can fit. Great performing tire and not sure on shipping, but I know you should be able to buy these in your budget.


Goodyear*Wrangler DuraTrac

Size: 245/75R16
Sidewall Style: Outlined White Letters
Serv. Desc: 108/104Q Load Index 108 = 2205lbs (1000kg) per tire
Load Index 104 = 1984lbs (900kg) per tire
Speed Rating “Q” = 99mph (160kph)
Load Range: CMax Load = 2,205 lbs
Max psi = 50 psi

UTQG: Not required for
this tire.None Price: $178.00 (each

dura.jpg
 

HARDTRAILZ

Moderator
Nov 18, 2011
49,665
You have seen these tires in person on Voltage's truck as well.
 

Voymom

Original poster
Member
Feb 3, 2012
2,523
Those are really nice! I did like them on Jeff's truck as well. We have a goodyear tire shop here in town, I'll have to go see if the shop carries them in stock.

Thank you!
 

bore_pig

Member
Nov 25, 2011
113
I have been very happy with my Duratracs. Just be prepared to rotate them every 5000mi or they will start to cup. They are a pretty quiet tire for how aggressive they are too.
 

Voymom

Original poster
Member
Feb 3, 2012
2,523
bore_pig said:
I have been very happy with my Duratracs. Just be prepared to rotate them every 5000mi or they will start to cup. They are a pretty quiet tire for how aggressive they are too.

Thanks!! I wouldn't want to have that issue on new tires lol.
 

AV8ER

Member
Apr 19, 2012
260
Voymom said:
I'm wanting to do 245/75-16 or maybe even one size bigger after that. I don't have spacers and it's stock, but I am wanting to get the leveling kit as well. Basically the biggest tire/tread I can possibly do without needing spacers, lift or cutting. I do plan on the 2.5" lift possibly next spring or whenever Mat decides to lift his truck.

I dont know if you have different rims but im pretty sure all XL/EXT have 17 inch rims standard. I have 245-70-17 on mine. I dont know much about the treadwrights but i dont know if I would use retreads knowing that your envoy is your family vehicle
 

Short Bus

Member
Dec 2, 2011
1,906
AV8ER said:
I dont know if you have different rims but im pretty sure all XL/EXT have 17 inch rims standard. I have 245-70-17 on mine. I dont know much about the treadwrights but i dont know if I would use retreads knowing that your envoy is your family vehicle

:yes: EXT/XL need 17" rims to clear the bigger brakes, so the 245/75-16 are a no go. 245/70/17 or 265/65/17 are the way to go.
 

Voymom

Original poster
Member
Feb 3, 2012
2,523
Short Bus said:
:yes: EXT/XL need 17" rims to clear the bigger brakes, so the 245/75-16 are a no go. 245/70/17 or 265/65/17 are the way to go.

Ahh okay! The whole tire sizes get confusing for me. I know my stock tire size, and I know the size of my rims, but it's hard to figure out on my own what will or will not fit. For some reason when I look for the "Will it fit" thread, I get a no searches found thing...I know it's on the forum as I have read it once when I first got the voy, but never paid much attention to it because at that point the tire mod bug had not came out to play lol.

Plus I can't search the OS....I'm "No longer with them" and I can't remember exactly if the "Will it fit" thread was here or over there :undecided:
 

tbuckalew14

Member
Nov 20, 2011
380
Don't forget you need money to mount/balance the tires also...I just picked up 2 sets of tires for under 1200 shipped. A set of general grabbers(265/70-17) for my truck(660-50 rebate) and forteras(245/65-17) for 460 for my moms TB.
 

anthonyl79

Member
Jul 15, 2012
127
Colorado
Voymom said:
Thank you for the awesome feedback Kyle! I guess it's on to look for a different tire then. I LOVED TW's prices, even shipping wasn't bad at all, but at this rate I should probably consider a different non-retreaded tire. I know you guys can spend upwards of $1600 for your tires, and that's a bit out of budget for us....but it is hard to find a nice rugged tire that I don't need to really budget anymore for. I have as of now an $800.00 budget and that would include shipping if I had to order them.

I'm actually surprised from the things I have read about the beefier tires not having all that great of a life as far as wear compared to something like the Fortera's I have now. Is it because the rubber is softer?

I am looking at a set of Nitto's from Family Tire. They are 265-70-17 and they want $170 each. The input I have gotten is they are an overall good tire. I do a lot of driving in the mountains in the winter and I wanted something that can hang and not kill my pocket.
 

anthonyl79

Member
Jul 15, 2012
127
Colorado
tbuckalew14 said:
Don't forget you need money to mount/balance the tires also...I just picked up 2 sets of tires for under 1200 shipped. A set of general grabbers(265/70-17) for my truck(660-50 rebate) and forteras(245/65-17) for 460 for my moms TB.

If you dont mind, where did you get your tires from?
 

AV8ER

Member
Apr 19, 2012
260
Voymom said:
Ahh okay! The whole tire sizes get confusing for me. I know my stock tire size, and I know the size of my rims, but it's hard to figure out on my own what will or will not fit. For some reason when I look for the "Will it fit" thread, I get a no searches found thing...I know it's on the forum as I have read it once when I first got the voy, but never paid much attention to it because at that point the tire mod bug had not came out to play lol.

Plus I can't search the OS....I'm "No longer with them" and I can't remember exactly if the "Will it fit" thread was here or over there :undecided:

Its in the offroad section:smile:
 

Voymom

Original poster
Member
Feb 3, 2012
2,523
AV8ER said:
Its in the offroad section:smile:

I looked there! lol That's where I read a thread from I think it was Jkust who bought the Puma's as well. I could not find it for the life of me!

I have been cruising the offroad threads for a few days now, trying to get as much information as I can on tires, equipment etc...But couldn't find it. I will go look again, I was just over in that section lol

- - - Updated - - -

AV8ER said:
Its in the offroad section:smile:

I looked there! lol That's where I read a thread from I think it was Jkust who bought the Puma's as well. I could not find it for the life of me!

I have been cruising the offroad threads for a few days now, trying to get as much information as I can on tires, equipment etc...But couldn't find it. I will go look again, I was just over in that section lol
 

AV8ER

Member
Apr 19, 2012
260
Voymom said:
I looked there! lol That's where I read a thread from I think it was Jkust who bought the Puma's as well. I could not find it for the life of me!

I have been cruising the offroad threads for a few days now, trying to get as much information as I can on tires, equipment etc...But couldn't find it. I will go look again, I was just over in that section lol

- - - Updated - - -



I looked there! lol That's where I read a thread from I think it was Jkust who bought the Puma's as well. I could not find it for the life of me!

I have been cruising the offroad threads for a few days now, trying to get as much information as I can on tires, equipment etc...But couldn't find it. I will go look again, I was just over in that section lol
Just checked to make sure im not mistaken. The will it fit thread is a sticky at the very top of the offroad section
 

Voymom

Original poster
Member
Feb 3, 2012
2,523
AV8ER said:
Just checked to make sure im not mistaken. The will it fit thread is a sticky at the very top of the offroad section

Your right, absolutely correct. I think I need to get my eye's checked lol I have been caught up reading the body armor thread by Hardtrailz though so that could be why I missed it.
 

AV8ER

Member
Apr 19, 2012
260
Voymom said:
Your right, absolutely correct. I think I need to get my eye's checked lol I have been caught up reading the body armor thread by Hardtrailz though so that could be why I missed it.

Lol its late anyways! I get so cought up reading all these threads
 

Voymom

Original poster
Member
Feb 3, 2012
2,523
Forget this...LOL It's an inch difference between stock and the 255/65/17 It is to f'ing late and I have had 1 to many beers to even comprehend my own literature lol.

I'm stopping here and going to bed :biggrin:
 

AV8ER

Member
Apr 19, 2012
260
Voymom said:
Now there isn't a significant difference in .1" on the tires is there?

245/70/17 - 265/65/17

I'm just wondering why the tires I can choose from differentiate by .1"

From the chart I can't go any bigger without modifying....I don't even know if this makes sense...Corona and lack of sleep doesn't help with comprehension lol

I guess I'm trying to ask is....oh hell I don't know, I will just try this question again tomorrow while I'm sober lol

Lol well ya you might have better luck tomorrow. Best answer i can give you is that even though say a 245-70-17 comes out to a 30.5 inch tire on paper, the actual size can be a bit different between brands and tread patterns. Once you get past the known biggest size of 30.5 inches, all you can do is try the tires and see if they fit. I know with the 245/70/17 i have, i can barley fit my finger tips between the tire and the control arm
 

Voymom

Original poster
Member
Feb 3, 2012
2,523
AV8ER said:
Lol well ya you might have better luck tomorrow. Best answer i can give you is that even though say a 245-70-17 comes out to a 30.5 inch tire on paper, the actual size can be a bit different between brands and tread patterns. Once you get past the known biggest size of 30.5 inches, all you can do is try the tires and see if they fit. I know with the 245/70/17 i have, i can barley fit my finger tips between the tire and the control arm

See I think thats where I'm having an issue in comprehension. I'm not thinking in ratio aspect as that is how they are measured, I'm thinking purely in inches and clearance. It's so hard to ask the right questions, when you don't know much about what your trying to learn lol

I have a goal in mind for the truck, but i'm not sure if I can meet that goal realistically. I'm trying to stay away from the major modifications, which I know I can do by selecting the right tire size, but my over all fear is either having a tire that physically LOOKS to big or to small...I have made up my mind and decided I'm wanting to do the 2.5 MarkMC suspension lift, but I'd like to again stay away from spacers, ball joint mods etc...and still get a tire that will look appealing without the too big or too small look if that makes sense at all.

I have seen some lifted trucks around here, and it's like I want to gouge my eyes out because the lift is small and the tires are ridiculously huge, like clowns and their big ass feet lol
 

Short Bus

Member
Dec 2, 2011
1,906
This might help you with the tire sizes

Tire Size Calculator - tire & wheel plus sizing

If you don't want spacers, you could get wheels that'll stick out more and clear the ball joints without mods.

My truck with lift, but still on 265/65/17 (the pix are old, so please excuse the TV decals)

0108121049.jpg


0108121050.jpg


With spacers and 265/70/17

0721121740.jpg


0327121725a.jpg
 

Voymom

Original poster
Member
Feb 3, 2012
2,523
Short Bus said:
This might help you with the tire sizes

Tire Size Calculator - tire & wheel plus sizing

If you don't want spacers, you could get wheels that'll stick out more and clear the ball joints without mods.

My truck with lift, but still on 265/65/17 (the pix are old, so please excuse the TV decals)

0108121049.jpg


0108121050.jpg


With spacers and 265/70/17

0721121740.jpg


0327121725a.jpg

Those look really good. How aggressive were the treads on those tires? And could I go a bit more aggressive? I have heard that people have had some issues with the spacers, not Marks, but spacers and adapters in general, but again I know every truck will vary. I'm not 100% against spacers or adapters, I'm just not familiar with them, and the unknown scares the poop out of me lol. Spacers could be something I consider once I learn more about them.

I really liked StormSurge's tan TB with the 2.5 lift and 32" tires, but I know he had to trim away fenders, have spacers etc...

For now, I'm just looking at more aggressive tires, something I can stick on the bad boy while I wait for the lift, which I will probably do either at the BIG meet or during next summer sometime. I know we will need help installing the lift kit.

Now, maybe I need to ask this in the lifted section of the forum, but I need to change my shocks and struts before winter, can I still do my Bilsteins and keep them on when I do lift, or am I looking at a different size/style when I do lift the truck? If I'm looking at having to do different spec shocks and struts all because of a lift, I won't bother getting anything of high quality when I change them this fall....I will just get something that will get me through the winter up until I get the lift.
 

NJTB

Member
Aug 27, 2012
612
Flemington, NJ
Voymom said:
I only seen one other thread solely about the Treadwrights Puma on here. I asked on the FB page, but figured I would ask here as well to give members who are not on FB a chance to answer my questions.

I'm looking at the Puma's and the Warden(D) tires. I'm wondering the quality of the tire, ride noise, traction on wet surfaces, dry surfaces, and the over all wear/lifetime. I just discovered that they were retreads, and I have never heard nor used a retread tire, so what would the differences be between a retread and non besides the obvious?

I'm not lifted, I do mud once in a while, but I am mainly looking for over all better traction, especially for winter and of course when I'm out in the storms for storm season. I'm more concerned on the traction and wear/lifetime of the tire than anything else. Ride noise is a minor factor for me, as well as the loss of fuel economy. Since I'm not lifted, how much of a difference on the speedo am I looking at?

Do I want to make sure I order the same carcass for all 5 tires? Or do the carcasses not matter?

And of course, anything else anyone can advise me on.



Voymom;
If you're driving your family around, stick with new tires (not recaps) solely for safety reasons.You don't want to peel a recap at highway speeds with the kids in the car.
With your budget, you should be able to get 4 at a local tire dealer. Look for who's having a sale in the newspaper, or maybe an ad on the radio.
Use the best existing tire for the spare. If the new tire goes flat, your'e going to repair it and put it back on the vehicle anyways.
 

HARDTRAILZ

Moderator
Nov 18, 2011
49,665
Em.
NJTB said:
Voymom;
If you're driving your family around, stick with new tires (not recaps) solely for safety reasons.You don't want to peel a recap at highway speeds with the kids in the car.
With your budget, you should be able to get 4 at a local tire dealer. Look for who's having a sale in the newspaper, or maybe an ad on the radio.
Use the best existing tire for the spare. If the new tire goes flat, your'e going to repair it and put it back on the vehicle anyways.

Please substantiate the safety concerns. Any data that recaps on passenger vehicles are not safe. In years of research i can find about 3 failures of recaps and literally 100s of failures of new tires. Tire for tire, goodyear, firestone, dunlop have higher failure rates.

I have done the research and my 18 month old princess roles w me on recaps. Where is your research? Or please dont badmouth
 

Voymom

Original poster
Member
Feb 3, 2012
2,523
NJTB said:
Voymom;
If you're driving your family around, stick with new tires (not recaps) solely for safety reasons.You don't want to peel a recap at highway speeds with the kids in the car.
With your budget, you should be able to get 4 at a local tire dealer. Look for who's having a sale in the newspaper, or maybe an ad on the radio.
Use the best existing tire for the spare. If the new tire goes flat, your'e going to repair it and put it back on the vehicle anyways.

New tires can fail just as easily and badly as retreads can. A lot of the reasons why so many people out in the world have high failure rates and nasty wrecks from a blow out is due to their own negligence most of the time, yes sometimes you can get a bad tire, but I think most of the time it is the drivers fault. Most people don't check their tire pressure religiously, and a lot of times drivers are going way to fast when they have a blow out, which in turn can cause a loss of control on the vehicle. I check my tire pressure pretty religiously, and even though I do have a led foot, I don't drive to crazily with my babies in the truck. I do appreciate your concern though, but until I can see written in stone evidence on the lack of safety from treadwrights, I would still consider them, however where I am going for both looks an performance, treadwrights may not suit my needs, as from my understanding they can look kind of fugly lol

ETA: Hardtrailz beat me to the punch lol
 

Short Bus

Member
Dec 2, 2011
1,906
Voymom said:
Those look really good. How aggressive were the treads on those tires? And could I go a bit more aggressive?

The 265/65/17s was street tread :redface: I've seen pix of more aggressive 265/65 without other mods, but you could still end up needing to grind the ball joint with some tires.

Voymom said:
I have heard that people have had some issues with the spacers, not Marks, but spacers and adapters in general, but again I know every truck will vary. I'm not 100% against spacers or adapters, I'm just not familiar with them, and the unknown scares the poop out of me lol. Spacers could be something I consider once I learn more about them.

I would get Marks spacers, the problems I've heard of are with people getting the 1.3" spacers and not grinding down the wheel studs or not taking off the brake rotor clip so the spacers set flush after mounting.

Voymom said:
I really liked StormSurge's tan TB with the 2.5 lift and 32" tires, but I know he had to trim away fenders, have spacers etc...

For now, I'm just looking at more aggressive tires, something I can stick on the bad boy while I wait for the lift, which I will probably do either at the BIG meet or during next summer sometime. I know we will need help installing the lift kit.

Now, maybe I need to ask this in the lifted section of the forum, but I need to change my shocks and struts before winter, can I still do my Bilsteins and keep them on when I do lift, or am I looking at a different size/style when I do lift the truck? If I'm looking at having to do different spec shocks and struts all because of a lift, I won't bother getting anything of high quality when I change them this fall....I will just get something that will get me through the winter up until I get the lift.

I've heard the Bilstein rear socks aren't long enough for a lifted truck, but the Bilstein struts are a good choice for the front. Also, if you can fit it in your budget I would do the lift with the struts. It's the same process and would be doing the same job twice.
 

Voymom

Original poster
Member
Feb 3, 2012
2,523
Short Bus said:
The 265/65/17s was street tread :redface: I've seen pix of more aggressive 265/65 without other mods, but you could still end up needing to grind the ball joint with some tires.



I would get Marks spacers, the problems I've heard of are with people getting the 1.3" spacers and not grinding down the wheel studs or not taking off the brake rotor clip so the spacers set flush after mounting.



I've heard the Bilstein rear socks aren't long enough for a lifted truck, but the Bilstein struts are a good choice for the front. Also, if you can fit it in your budget I would do the lift with the struts. It's the same process and would be doing the same job twice.

All of this makes me want a nice cold beer lol I can see now that when it comes time to get everything set to get the lift and tires, I will need some major help, especially if it means doing any major mods to get the results I want. I would end up calling Voltage or even consider taking it somewhere to be done, which scares me lol. I will honestly say, besides stock tires I know nothing about suspension. Maybe I would even consider driving to a meet in Indiana to have the big guys help me out with it. I would be willing to bring beer and order pizza :biggrin:
 

HARDTRAILZ

Moderator
Nov 18, 2011
49,665
Voymom said:
All of this makes me want a nice cold beer lol I can see now that when it comes time to get everything set to get the lift and tires, I will need some major help, especially if it means doing any major mods to get the results I want. I would end up calling Voltage or even consider taking it somewhere to be done, which scares me lol. I will honestly say, besides stock tires I know nothing about suspension. Maybe I would even consider driving to a meet in Indiana to have the big guys help me out with it. I would be willing to bring beer and order pizza :biggrin:
Jeffs got done at my place in IN.
 

Regulator

Member
Nov 20, 2011
2,496
HARDTRAILZ said:
Jeffs got done at my place in IN.

There were a lot of them done at your place, I was there for most of them and of course will be again.
 

NJTB

Member
Aug 27, 2012
612
Flemington, NJ
HARDTRAILZ said:
Em.

Please substantiate the safety concerns. Any data that recaps on passenger vehicles are not safe. In years of research i can find about 3 failures of recaps and literally 100s of failures of new tires. Tire for tire, goodyear, firestone, dunlop have higher failure rates.

I have done the research and my 18 month old princess roles w me on recaps. Where is your research? Or please dont badmouth



Hardtrails, You're right. I have NO hard evidence besides working as a mechanic in the field from the 70's to the 90's. That's where I saw the failures. And again, you're right, new tires fail too.
But then, how many 'road gators' do you see on the highway.
In NJ, there was a company that imported recap tires from China. They had a failure rate so high the government forced a recall, and stopped them from doing business in this state. This happened two or three years ago.
I should have written it was a personal preference, and that I wouldn't get them for the family car.
 

HARDTRAILZ

Moderator
Nov 18, 2011
49,665
You see semi truck road gators but treadwright has been around for years with glowing reviews. I would never support Firestone and their baby killing tires but I dont tell everyone to avoid them. Opinions are like assholes...everyone has one.
 

Denali n DOO

Member
May 22, 2012
5,596
I know nothing about these tires. So what's the advantage of the re tread tires vs new tires? Do they last longer and wear better than new tires? Do they have a better road hazzard warranty? Are they less expensive than new tires? Do they offer a better tread pattern or sizes that can't be found in new tires? How do you know if the carcass used for a retread is a good tire to begin with? Just looking for reasons why someone would consider retreads over new tires?

From what I've read in this thread so far I still would buy only new tires, I see no benefits to a retread...
 

HARDTRAILZ

Moderator
Nov 18, 2011
49,665
159 vs 289 a tire for me. No other benefit but i could not find a benefit to buying new. At least not functional. In my case...same warranty, safety, and wear for recap or new.
 

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