SOLVED: Water pump on it's way out after just 6 months?

[dkvasnicka]

There's one more thing I haven't mentioned because I wanted to reproduce it before mentioning it. The reason I was asking about highway speeds is that last Sunday (day after I did the pump & stuff) I experienced quite pronounced vibrations on highway (70 MPH, cruise control), throughout the whole car, I could feel it in the floor, seat, steering wheel, very unpleasant. I felt it today again. I turned off the CC (RPMs went down, TC unlocked) but the vibrations were still there, maybe just a tiny bit less. So it's more speed-related than RPM-related. It also seems to be more pronounced when the car carries more weight...

I'm trying to wrap my head around this. I have vibrations in idle, regardless of the gear. Then when driving in normal speeds around town I don't feel anything special (maybe it's just not strong enough at that point). And then when I get up to highway speeds I feel it again and much more strongly than when stationary.

Keep in mind, I have:
- brand new tires, wheels balanced with them (checked it by driving on highway right after they put them on, a week before the pump job, no vibrations)
- alignment done
- good tire pressure
- I have checked all 4 wheels for bearing/hub/balljoint play and sounds, there is no side-to-side or bottom-to-up play in the wheels.

I'm thinking maybe it can be the rear diff that I've discussed here on the site a few times during the last few months. But dying diff cannot explain vibrations when in P/N... Regarding the mounts I still have problems believing they could fail so hard so abruptly, without leaking the oil... I had absolutely no vibrations in idle (gear or not) before these problems, the car idled like a kitten. It all came within a few days after the pump job (which I know is now probably totally unrelated to this, just a point of reference).

 

[Mooseman]

For your speed related vibration, did you check your driveshaft u-joints? Front and rear?

For the engine vibration, the only thing you'll hear from us is the mounts. They may not have leaked or look bad but they might have hardened. Maybe the "all-of-a-sudden" is because it was there before but after the other repairs, you were more sensitive to anything that could be going on. It could have been there before but it just crept up on you without noticing until you replaced the pump.

 

[dkvasnicka]

I have checked the driveshaft some time ago when I saw it being mentioned a lot here on the site. I don't remember any play in the joints but I'll re-check. The only play I remember was rotational (i.e. I could grab the shaft and try to rotate it and it would move a few milimeters, with back wheel being blocked by the handbrake) with slight clicking sound in the diff as the gears were touching each other -- but I think that's normal, isn't it?

 

[Mooseman]

Yeah, that would be backlash in the gears. Quite normal.

 

[dkvasnicka]

Did spark plugs today. Vibrations while idling are still there but the truck is a bit smoother overall. Oh well, at least another checklist item is out.

 

[bspurloc]

your tranny issues seem to be exactly what my daughter was just experiencing.
In her case the tranny cooler was clogged which was causing the tranny to over heat and disengage the TC. this eventually killed the transmission in about a weeks time. I would touch the tranny and the lines to see how hot they are when it happens.

Did some searching on the TC drop-out and I'm afraid it's exactly what people with mischievous TCC valve experience... the only difference (so far) is that in my case the behavior goes away during every (so far) drive. Also I'm still perplexed by it starting to happen the very first TC-lockup-using drive I did after my pump/clutch/fan job (the vibrations came a day or so later).
Mind blown.

One possible scenario would be that I damaged the tranny lines when touching them to remove them from the fan shroud. But that would require a leak and a fluid loss and that's not my case.

 

[dkvasnicka]

It seems those tranny problems disappeared after I did the spark plugs. Not sure if bad plugs can have that much influence on power without setting a code but that's my impression now... Engine revs a lot smoother, too.

The bigger problem now are the vibrations. I've found that they are there all the time. When the car is stopped, when it moves and they get worse with speed. The reason I thought they were there only when stopped or on the highway was that in lower speeds (like 30 - 50 mph) there are various other sensory inputs that can overshadow the vibration if you don't pay attention. When stopped there is nothing to shield you from them and on the other hand when on highway they are just too strong not to be noticed. Also this morning there was a brief moment after I started the car when I did't feel them but later in the day I did. And no, it was not very warm this morning. There were cases when I felt them right away as I started the car in relatively high (for central-european late spring) temps.
I'll be doing the oil today, will need to take the belt off once more. People also describe things like this when they lose compression on one or more cylinder(s) - that would be crazy at 90k miles. Then there are mounts, O2 sensor (unlikely to cause this but whatever), CPS, CAPS...
I know I may sound like a proper "Bad Motor Mounts Denier", but the circumstances just feel too different from everything I've ever read about bad mounts on GMT360s...
Oh, and no CEL and no codes, of course

I have a longer highway trip with the truck full of family and stuff scheduled for the second half of June and as it is it is undriveable on highway

 

[mrrsm]

Before you go... if you have a decent and reliable hydraulic floor jack... set a 2" X 4" "cushioning" piece of wood on the Jacking Pad and position the jack under the Crank-Case-Oil-Pan in a position to clear the lower frame work...and then...very, very slightly and very, very gradually and very, very carefully... elevate the engine just a fraction of an inch at a time. You must be careful not to raise the engine height too far... Meanwhile... have your "Better Half" sitting behind the driver's side of the vehicle and instruct her to Set the Emergency Brake and Start the Vehicle and then keep both of her hands on the steering at the 10 O'Clock and 2 O'Clock positions and have her left foot solidly on the Brake Pedal so she can feel what is about to happen.

When you advise her to do so.... raise the engine RPM by very slight increments to see whether the vibrations subside as the weight of the engine and transmission transfer from the two front Motor Mounts to the hydraulic lifting of the jack in very tiny increments. If at any time she advises you that the vibrations have gone away at any point in these actions...then you will have found the Culprit as Bad Motor Mounts and can rest your mind while on your trip as to the cause of of this "Vibrating Mystery".

 

[dkvasnicka]

OK, it's the new blade, most probably. I started it, felt the vibration right away. Shut down, took the belt off, started again. No vibration (I don't know what I was doing when I was testing it before). I put the belt back on and felt the vibration, so I went and stopped the fan by pressuring a rag on it... I then put my hand on the engine (not yet hot) and let the fan loose and as it spun faster and faster I could feel the engine vibrate more and more.

I think the reason I couldn't feel the vibrations sometimes is that the chemical properties of the material in the clutch change and sometimes it just wasn't spinning fast enough to vibrate the whole car. My theory.

 

[mrrsm]

Did you install a Brand New Belt Tensioner and New Idler Pulley when you changed the Elastomeric Clutch Fan? If not... doing those items B4 you do the Fan Blade might change the vibration issue and obviate any further need. If nothing else...that would just about make anything that moves under the Power of the Serpentine Belt ...Brand Spanking New.

 

[dkvasnicka]

No, I didn't, I checked both pulleys like thousands of times and they spin with no resistance and are quiet.

Anyway, I just went and changed the blade - I put in the old one. And guess what? No vibrations in idle whatsoever, no vibrations through the floor and seat on the highway at 70 mph. Call me "Mr. Can Do Fan Clutch Job With a Blindfold"

I'll do the mounts probably at some point, probably earlier than later. But I'm glad I'm not pressured to do them

Oh, I also checked the CPAS, no oil in the connector, it's clean as it should be.

And of course there is one question that only time will answer: has the fucked up blade already managed to initiate the death of my new clutch?

 

[mrrsm]

Cool Beenz!

Congratulations for never giving up on sorting everything out! You might want to drop a note to an Admin or Moderator to mark this topic and all related postings as "SOLVED:" because your actions will act to magnetically attract others in a similar set of circumstances to visit your posts first...and cut to the chase on "How to Solve a Multitude of Maddening Vibration Problems" !

PS

If the "NEW BLADE" is not being returned for a refund... scavenge the "mini-balance weights" off of the impeller...they just might come in handy in the future to help to "Balance Things Out".

If and when you decide to replace your Motor Mounts... Here are a couple of images from my Trailblazer Parts Images Photobucket to show what they look like when they are Brand New. Also keep this link for future reference if you need to know the myriad part numbers, etc:

http://s557.photobucket.com/user/60...NEREPAIR/TRAILBLAZERENGINEPARTS?sort=2&page=1

 

[dkvasnicka]

f the "NEW BLADE" is not being returned for a refund... scavenge the "mini-balance weights" off of the impeller...they just might come in handy in the future to help to "Balance Things Out".

It is the old blade that has them. Maybe that's why it doesn't vibrate the whole car even though it itself isn't all that precisely shaped either. (I've seen the mighty Roadie state in one thread on the OS that these plastic blades will always have a bit of wobble to them because they are all cheaply molded parts... maybe cars with metal fan blades don't suffer from this that much?)

I could take the weights off of the old one and try to balance the new one with them but that would be pure trial and error. I don't have any machinery for balancing fan blades.

I initiated a refund request on eBay, so we'll see.

 

[mrrsm]

Bump my Prior Post -^- Because I just added more information, images and link.

 

[Mooseman]

Let me guess the brand of the new fan blade:

Spoiler: My guess

DORMAN

 

[dkvasnicka]

I have a confession to make

Spoiler: Confession

I don't know.

Yeah, I know. It was this item. The seller immediately issued a full refund, though - without requiring me to ship the part back.