Please help! 2002 Envoy harmonic balancer replacement nightmare!

fishmkg

Original poster
Member
Jun 15, 2012
5
Hi there, my 2002 envoy has been broken down for six months, been driving around in a minivan because of lack of time to fix and small shops won't touch it dealership wants to charge me thousands, hoping someone has had this issue or knows how to fix it.

Here it goes:

ripped the engine down three times, first cause was engine vibration, was told simple fix replace the harmonic balancer. Did this took about half a day no problems, tightened everything to torque and dod the extra 180, went to start envoy vibration gone but now oil is misting out of the balancer, come to find out we have to replace a crankshaft seal, took balancer back off pulled out old seal, which was nasty, new seal in put everything back together, misting still there, double checked to make sure everything is tight, put back together, engine started no misting or vibrations life is good, put everything away hooked envoy up to battery charger to charge over night because the envoy had been sitting for 3 months at this point battery was dead. Next day fired the truck up ran about 30 seconds and oils start pouring out of the balancer!!! Not misting pouring Put back in garage took everything apart again, but this time what was left of a rubber seal, the size of the crankshaft bolt came out with it...is this from the crankshaft? Are there two seals? At this point we ran out of time and it's been sitting there, starting to get some free time and would love to drive this for the summer, someone please help, at a loss at this point, can't even find a crankshaft to buy for this thing. The main question is... What is causing oil to come out fom behind the balancer as a result of pulling the crankshaft bolt?

Thanks for youre time
 

The_Roadie

Lifetime VIP Donor
Member
Nov 19, 2011
9,957
Portland, OR

fishmkg

Original poster
Member
Jun 15, 2012
5
I believe it is a haynes manual we have been using, but it is so vague we have been going off of what local gm dealerships and garages say but it seems they do not know much about it either. We have not touched the bottom half of the engine like this before, was supposed to be quick and easy but as usual the vehicle had other plans :tongue: Of course the service tech's at dealership are saying anywhere from 500 to 2000 dollars. too big of a range for us.
 

The_Roadie

Lifetime VIP Donor
Member
Nov 19, 2011
9,957
Portland, OR

Wooluf1952

Member
Nov 20, 2011
2,663
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Looking at the 2003 Helms manual, it is a straight forward remove and replace procedure, as long as you didn't damage the front cover when you remove the balancer or oil seal.

The drawings don't show them, but the manual says to "Use the provided slots for prying out the seal."

The only thing I'd add; Did you oil the seal and balancer before reinstalling them? And, did you inspect the balancer for any worn grooves?

Good luck. :thumbsup:
 

ScarabEpic22

Member
Nov 20, 2011
728
Sorry to hear you're having this kind of luck, I havent personally dug that deep into my I6 as I havent needed to (knock on wood)!

If you cant figure out what the actual problem is, a used engine swap might not be a bad idea. It may seem extreme, but you can get a low mileage engine off eBay for $5-800.
 

BOOMERZ

Member
Dec 5, 2011
94
while looking at the link that ROADIE provided and listening to your list of repairs it might be possible that you replaced the balancer with the incorrect one causing the seal and washer to get torn up and fail on you ... see what part numbers you got for the seal and the balancer , you might have to go to the stealership to cross check your vin number against the proper balancer / sealkit and washer that goes between the seal and the balancer .... see the nots on part 515 /906/ and 128 sorry for the lonbg post

the roadie said:
 

jimmyjam

Member
Nov 18, 2011
1,634
did you remove the front cover when you swapped the seal? or do it on the engine

are you sure you put the seal on the correct way, if you put it on backwards it will blow out
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,599
Ottawa, ON
BOOMERZ said:
while looking at the link that ROADIE provided and listening to your list of repairs it might be possible that you replaced the balancer with the incorrect one causing the seal and washer to get torn up and fail on you ... see what part numbers you got for the seal and the balancer , you might have to go to the stealership to cross check your vin number against the proper balancer / sealkit and washer that goes between the seal and the balancer .... see the nots on part 515 /906/ and 128 sorry for the lonbg post

Ditto. I think you used the wrong seal for the balancer you used as there was two designs used on these engines. The description for the seal says this:

SEAL KIT,CR/SHF FRT OIL(FOR USE W/ORIGINAL 2002-03 CR/SHF-SMOOTH HUB BALANCER;2ND DESIGN (12578069)-BALANCER HAS A STEP-ON THE HUB USE W/12574668 SEAL). Required: 01
SEAL KIT,CR/SHF FRT OIL(SMOOTH HUB.FOR 2ND DES SEE 89017622). Required: 01
For: ST1 4.2S(LL8) (2002-2003) (2002 - 2003).
For: ST1 4.2S(LL8),(1ST DES) (2004-2004) (2004 - 2004).

National shows two sizes: 38.4mm and 47mm
 

fishmkg

Original poster
Member
Jun 15, 2012
5
I greatly appreciate all of the responses to this post! My next step was to take the front cover off but I will do research into possible part discrepencies first(easier).We have looked into doing a engine swap if we cant solve this soon. My dad and I have a charter fishing boat with dual 30 year old 454 motors, we lost one and are struggling to rebuild as fast as possible, so this project got put to the side once again :/ I will take pictures and notes and post the result on here when I am finished or have any other problems in case anyone else has the same issue we are having. Again thanks for all the Feedback and Ideas!
 

Gary M

Member
Jul 12, 2012
20
Mooseman said:
Ditto. I think you used the wrong seal for the balancer you used as there was two designs used on these engines.

Anybody know of an easy (visual) way to tell the difference?

A VIN check won't help me because I had to replace the engine (it was that, or a bottom-end rebuild) in 2008 when I spun a bearing.

Thanks,

Cheers!

Gary
 

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