P0410 Code

v7guy

Original poster
Member
Dec 4, 2011
298
I just had to...

Got this code a couple months ago. Did the usual, dumped a boatload of water out of the hoses. Checked the plug at the pump and was getting almost 14v to it verifying the relay was good (it was highly corroded/green and I cleaned it even though it was "good"). Disconnected the hose at the check valve and got a ricer type buzz out of it.
It took about a week before I got back to the problem and I again dumped a ton of water out of both tubes to the air pump. Then I disconnected the pump via the three bolts in the cross member area and spewed more water out of the pump. I hooked up the pins to a couple of connectors with a stretch of wire and tested the pump on the battery... The pump damn near jumped off the battery cover and spewed more water... so I assume it and the relay is good.

I then disconnected the hose to the check valve, started the truck and got the familiar ricer buzz and it never went away, so I ass u me it's a stuck open valve. I disconnect the valve with a 13mm deep socket on the front bolt and then a 10 mm nut to release the trans dipstick tube... you still need the 13mm to release the back bolt after pulling away the trans dipstick tool (I used a 1/4" drive wrench). I opened it up via the three screws on the check valve and the internal plate with three holes, that's covered by two plates and has two screws... it didn't come out easily. I tried to unscrew the two screws on the internal plate and they sheared off and I was left with a mess. I realized the plate with three holes would pull out after I broke off the two screws.

At this point I figured the potential to induce particles into the engine without the two shields/plates would be bad so I capped it off and ordered the check valve through rockauto. I found it cheaper at partsgeek but I'd never heard of them before and the results turned up by google made them seem sketchy.

So here I am waiting for the part, should be here Wed. I'll include pics in a couple days.

If the check valve doesn't clear it I assume it's the O2 even though my scan gauge says it reads normal, we'll see what happens.


for reference here is a lot of helpful info I read on diagnosing this repair. it is copy and pasted from a previous thread.

[Material deleted until I can verify we have permission to repost it. Reminder to everyone - you may ONLY post material YOU wrote or you can prove you have the permission of the author to repost. Copying wholesale from this or ANY OTHER SITE is a copyright violation we cannot be accused of committing. Especially now. - The Roadie.]
 

v7guy

Original poster
Member
Dec 4, 2011
298
[Material deleted until I can verify we have permission to repost it. Reminder to everyone - you may ONLY post material YOU wrote or you can prove you have the permission of the author to repost. Copying wholesale from this or ANY OTHER SITE is a copyright violation we cannot be accused of committing. Especially now. - The Roadie.]
 

v7guy

Original poster
Member
Dec 4, 2011
298
Well after replacing the valve, verifying again that the pump is getting voltage and bench testing the pump I can only come to the conclusion that the pump is broken internally. There is a small suction on the air intake tube and a little blow on the valve tube, theres no tornado of air like some posts have described. The tubes themselves don't seem to be clogged either. So at this point I guess I'm buying a new pump too.
 

woody79

Member
Dec 3, 2011
351
Sounds like what I went through. My pump was running, but wasn't pushing the correct air flow to the valve, thus throwing the code. After getting the pump replaced I noticed the difference. I pulled the hose off the valve after the pump had been replaced, can't believe the amount of air that is being pumped out of it :smile:

Good luck!:thumbsup:
 

BarnieJekyl

Member
Dec 5, 2011
6
I have the P0410 code also and here's my story.....I have heard the air pump running every time on a cold start.....I crawled under and squeezed the clamps and got the water pouring out of the pump....Now that the pump is cleared from the water, no air pump running on cold starts......Did I do something that might have messed up the pump? Where do I start to troubleshoot this thing...? Should I start at square one and go from there or is there a strong possibility the pump is shot....? Thanks...
 

The_Roadie

Lifetime VIP Donor
Member
Nov 19, 2011
9,957
Portland, OR
The pump could be shot, or the relay and its socket that's right nearby could be corroded or flaky.

There are ten elements to the system:

1) Under the vehicle - the pump and relay that can get damaged or ingest water

2) In the front fuse block - Fuse 56 for the pump main power, Fuse 54 for the pump's relay control coil, Relay 55 for the solenoid

3) Solenoid (and sensors if it's a later version)

4) Hoses - water/ice blockage can close them off. Cuts or disconnection to make them open.

5) Upstream O2 sensor in the exhaust manifold - may throw other codes, but may also just be too sluggish to pass the P0410 diagnostic.

6) Wiring
between all the elements, fuses, relays, and grounds.

7) PCM control wiring.
 

v7guy

Original poster
Member
Dec 4, 2011
298
This system only works on cold starts and only for about 30 seconds. It takes several hours for the vehicle to cool down. This is the only time you can test for problems

Check the fuses at the under hood fuse box. They're the yellow square ones towards the front of the vehicle and they have a window in the top so you can see the copper fuse piece inside. They are probably going to be a bit discolored, but there shouldn't be a hole in them or anything.
If the fuses are good take the plug off the air pump, the plug is between the pump and the frame and I had to take the pump out to disconnect it (to remove the air pump take out the three bolts going through the vehicle cross member into the air pump bracket, 13mm I think). When the vehicle is cold have a multi meter on the plug and see if you're getting voltage when it starts up. Should see 13.xx volts, something in that range.
If you're not seeing any voltage at the pump you're probably looking at the relay just ahead of the air pump that is no good. You can disconnect the relay and measure for voltage on the plug that runs into it during a cold start or you can just replace it, it's about $30. Obviously if you see voltage at the pump the relay is fine.
Next you can bench test the pump, remove it from the vehicle, ground one pin and run power to the other. I used the vehicles battery and a couple lengths of wire. The pump damn near jumped off the vehicle as the motor spun up. This doesn't necessarily mean the pump is good, it just means the motor is good. I've seen pictures where the inside of the pump has come apart so that the motor spins but the shaft connecting to the fan blades have broken. Make sure there is a large amount of air coming out of the pump. If there's not a bunch of air your pump is no good.
If you've got air coming out the pump hook it all back up. Wait for the vehicle to get cold. There is a hose going to the check valve on the passenger side of the engine. The check valve is directly under the air intake hose/tube. The hose that goes into it is on the fire wall side. Squeeze the plastic piece on the hose and disconnect it. On the bottom side of the air intake hose is another hose, squeeze the plastic clip and pull it loose. Start the vehicle. The hose from the bottom of the intake tube should have a strong suction. The hose going to the valve should be blowing out a lot of air. You should also notice that the check valve is making a really obnoxious loud buzzing sound... kinda like one of those hondas with the coffee can mufflers. Then it'll get quiet after about 30 seconds.
If there is no suction the hose is clogged with something (because you know the pump is blowing lots of air from your test earlier). If there is no whirlwind of air coming out the hose to the check valve the hose is clogged with something (because you know the pump is blowing lots of air from your test earlier). If the check valve doesn't make an obnoxious noise the valve is stuck close. If the check valve never stops making an obnoxious noise it's stuck open. replace the pump.
If all this checks out it's very likely your O2 sensor is shot.

PC080172-1.jpg


PC080181-1.jpg
 

dag48066

Member
Dec 4, 2011
3
Detroit Michigan area
Should the air pump run on every "cold" start or only when the ECT is between 37 and 122 degrees F?
I started the TB tonight to leave work. The scanner reported the coolant temp to be at 26 degrees and air pump showed off with no sound from the pump.
DAG
 

Mikebuild

Member
Mar 16, 2012
4
Mine has air flow from pump, very strong flow. No noise from solenoid. Either no power to solenoid or bad/stuck solenoid. Want to verify solenoid operation via bench test. Can I run wire/power directly from battery to solenoid ... or is that too many amps for solenoid? Or ... how to bench test solenoid.

The system only runs for 30 seconds upon cold start ... not sure if I have power to solenoid in that 30 second cycle. Have volt meter, but can't be totally sure that I have power within that 30 second window (small pins / fat fingers / slow old man working alone). I have checked for voltage and got zero. Now my 30 seconds has expired for this session. Still want to verify solenoid function though.

How do you check relay? ( no. 55?)

Thanks, Mike.
 

The_Roadie

Lifetime VIP Donor
Member
Nov 19, 2011
9,957
Portland, OR
Mikebuild said:
...Can I run wire/power directly from battery to solenoid ...
Yep. That's what the vehicle does to operate it. Straight 12V and ground.
or is that too many amps for solenoid?
Good question, but the solenoid coil *is* also a resistor that limits the current.
Or ... how to bench test solenoid.
Small jumper wires of 14-18 gauge should do fine to spare battery.
How do you check relay? ( no. 55?)
Same idea. Jumper wires to the relay coil and listen for it to click. Use your meter on the continuity or Ohms scale on the contact blades of the relay to make sure the contacts close when you apply power to the coil.
 

zamimj222

Member
Dec 22, 2011
53
Illinois
"
v7guy said:
This system only works on cold starts and only for about 30 seconds. It takes several hours for the vehicle to cool down. This is the only time you can test for problems


If there is no suction the hose is clogged with something (because you know the pump is blowing lots of air from your test earlier). If there is no whirlwind of air coming out the hose to the check valve the hose is clogged with something (because you know the pump is blowing lots of air from your test earlier). If the check valve doesn't make an obnoxious noise the valve is stuck close. If the check valve never stops making an obnoxious noise it's stuck open. replace the pump.
If all this checks out it's very likely your O2 sensor is shot."

I had replaced the pump about 6 months ago. The error code has returned. When I disconnected the hose from the solenoid valve and started the truck up, a bunch of water came out. I also noticed the pump quieted down after the initial 30 seconds. The solenoid valve seemed just as noisy. I am suspecting the solenoid valve stuck open. Wouldn't I want to replace the valve and not the pump??
thank you
 

mrrsm

Lifetime VIP Donor
Supporting Donor
Member
Oct 22, 2015
7,942
Tampa Bay Area
I know this is an Old Thread on the P0410 Code... But since it was never definitively solved in all aspects of what can fail, Scannerdanner has a very worthwhile Video below to show how the SAIS Pump AND the Solenoid Control Valve on the Engine Head SHARE a Common Circuit once the SAIS Pump engages that WILL give the false impression of an Open Circuit to the Solenoid Air Control Valve if it is not examined under the right conditions.

Danner runs through some Excellent Step-By-Step Check Procedures using his "Scope On a A Rope" and a Bi-Directional Scanner demonstrating How to Correctly Diagnose and sort out the P0410 Code for BOTH side of the Electro-Mechanical functions of the SAIS System. The Test Vehicle here is an unknown year Envoy:

 

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