Newtown Connecticut...small world and another sad day

[Denali n DOO]

I believe this issue needs to be met head-on by placing proper security in EVERY school. I don't think this problem is ever going away completely, but I don't see gun control being a fix for it either. If the wacko's are going to target the schools because there is no one there to stop them, let's put someone there to stop them. This is my PROFFESIONAL* opinion.

This is a very good opinion that you have, "proper security in EVERY school". We have SRO's here but not at every school, they only visit as needed. Last week on Thursday 8 suspicious men were walking through the hallways of one of our high schools looking for someone, refusing to leave. By the time the SRO arrived they were gone. At the same high school today there was a 917 call that had to wait for Police officers to arrive, too bad an SRO wasn't there already. Proper security at EVERY school would be a great way to help protect our children.

 

[Short Bus]

This is a very good opinion that you have, "proper security in EVERY school". We have SRO's here but not at every school, they only visit as needed. Last week on Thursday 8 suspicious men were walking through the hallways of one of our high schools looking for someone, refusing to leave. By the time the SRO arrived they were gone. At the same high school today there was a 917 call that had to wait for Police officers to arrive, too bad an SRO wasn't there already. Proper security at EVERY school would be a great way to help protect our children.

And you make another great point

"When seconds count, Police are only minutes away"

Here's a good video for you

[video=youtube_share;3LndP0KN4aU]http://youtu.be/3LndP0KN4aU[/video]

 

[WHY]

That someone used a garden sprayer with flammables in some public place. They set a number of people on fire with it. Controling access to any weapon rather than finding a way to prevent media hype that amplifies and increases problems and dealing with mental problems Before they get out of hand like this may be a better way to reduce these problems.

 

[Badbart]

That someone used a garden sprayer with flammables in some public place. They set a number of people on fire with it. Controling access to any weapon rather than finding a way to prevent media hype that amplifies and increases problems and dealing with mental problems Before they get out of hand like this may be a better way to reduce these problems.

Absolutely! The crazies that are the type to do these things see it on the media(be it TV, internet, Youtube, etc.) and think it's cool to go out in a blaze of gunfire, knowing that everyone will watch them getting there final glory/15 minutes of fame. But you bring up an important point. That person(with the sprayer)probably didn't have access to a firearm. So what did he do? He improvised. He still got the result he wanted. He brought death/harm to another human being. The problem isn't the firearm, the problem is the person with the firearm.

 

[HARDTRAILZ]

Y'all are missing the true issue. Guns are not the issue. The issue needing addressed is personal responsibility.

The worst school murder was Bath,MI and used explosives.

The twin towers were destroyed via box cutters n airplanes.

Oklahoma City was fertilizer and a rental truck.




Society is broken. We need to bring back family and morals and personal responsibility and accountability.

 

[jeffro312]

Y'all are missing the true issue. Guns are not the issue. The issue needing addressed is personal responsibility.

The worst school murder was Bath,MI and used explosives.

The twin towers were destroyed via box cutters n airplanes.

Oklahoma City was fertilizer and a rental truck.




Society is broken. We need to bring back family and morals and personal responsibility and accountability.

BINGO. couldn't have said it better. Although I consider new town the worst

 

[Badbart]

Society is broken. We need to bring back family and morals and GOD.

There, I fixed it for ya!

 

[The_Roadie]

We need to bring back family and morals and personal responsibility and accountability.

And the risky kids, the ones without both parents at home, with ADHD or Aspergers or whatever, addicted to shoot-em-up video games, will all need to be rounded up and shipped off to an internment camp somewhere for society to be totally safe.

I hear there's a few dozen of them going unused in various parts of the country.

Since we're not going to solve the divorce problem or the health/disability issues or the inappropriate entertainment sneakiness any time soon, we just have to accept that life is not without risk. Protect what you can with the tools you have access to, but run the numbers. Protect against the highest probability threats preferentially. Since the deranged surprise attacker, with whatever weapon, is essentially impossible to guard against, move on. As the TSA and their 4th Amendment violations prove at the airports, it's possible to go too far to defend against the indefensible. Just wait until the nervous nellies think it's a good idea to grope every passenger before they're allowed to get onto a bus, train, or subway.

Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

 

[The_Roadie]

There, I fixed it for ya!

Straying very close to the threshold for prohibited subjects now. Please watch the sensitivities of the many belief systems represented here.

 

[DucatiSS]

Please watch the sensitivities of the many belief systems represented here.

With all due respect. I will still say MERRY CHRISTMAS, and never apologize for it.

 

[northcreek]

The NFL does not show a drunken fan racing accross the field in an effort to not promote this behavior.Yet you cannot turn on the TV and not see all the gory details which they so dutifully seek out to no end.I cannot turn it off fast enough as it saddens me to the point of rage.
These "dirty laundry people" create a stage for these deranged individuals,a leading Psycologist said that this is the worst thing to do if you want to stop the carnage.
We don't need to see the parents grieving...we know it's the worst,we don't need to see the caskets...it serves no purpose,we don't need to know everything about and pictures of this monsters house,year book,etc...why complete his sick goal.
I don't want to stick my head in the sand but, sometimes a wound heals better if left alone...Mike.

 

[Badbart]

The NFL does not show a drunken fan racing accross the field in an effort to not promote this behavior.Yet you cannot turn on the TV and not see all the gory details which they so dutifully seek out to no end.I cannot turn it off fast enough as it saddens me to the point of rage.
These "dirty laundry people" create a stage for these deranged individuals,a leading Psycologist said that this is the worst thing to do if you want to stop the carnage.
We don't need to see the parents grieving...we know it's the worst,we don't need to see the caskets...it serves no purpose,we don't need to know everything about and pictures of this monsters house,year book,etc...why complete his sick goal.
I don't want to stick my head in the sand but, sometimes a wound heals better if left alone...Mike.

Agreed. The media is more interested in selling airtime. Oh, and it doesn't neccesarily need to be accurate either....

 

[silverunicorn]

I did not write this, I pulled it from another (non gun) forum, but I agree with what he says.

There is one thing that all mass shootings in the United States have had in common. These murderers have used all kinds of different guns from bolt action single shots to revolvers to fully automatic machines guns and body armor.

They have had all kinds of mental states from seemingly completely normal to full on psychotic. They have happened in different states with different laws. One thing, and only one thing, is not different. Every mass shooting in the United States has occurred in a gun free zone. If you believe this to be coincidence you are nuts. No matter how insane these shooters are they know to target a location where they can carry out their plan unopposed. The states with the most guns have the lowest crime rates. The cities with the strictest gun laws are the murder capitals of the world. It used to be illegal to own a pistol in washington DC. How was their murder rate during that time?

There are no mass shootings or robberies, rapes, carjackings or anything else at gun ranges or gun shows and it does not take a genuis to understand why. Instead of trying to make America a gun free zone and freeing the criminals of any of their second thoughts look at the stats about what actually reduces crime here in America.

While I am sorry I got into the rhetoric about this, this (IMO) should go back to honoring those who died on that horrible day.

Chris

 

[The_Roadie]

Every mass shooting in the United States has occurred in a gun free zone.

Not totally true except for the school incidents. Gabby Gifford? The Oregon Mall incident? (minimized the body count by the presence of a responsible armed citizen)

Clackamas mall shooter faced man with concealed weapon | kgw.com Portland

PORTLAND -- Nick Meli is emotionally drained. The 22-year-old was at Clackamas Town Center with a friend and her baby when a masked man opened fire.
"I heard three shots and turned and looked at Casey and said, 'are you serious?,'" he said.
The friend and baby hit the floor. Meli, who has a concealed carry permit, positioned himself behind a pillar.
"He was working on his rifle," said Meli. "He kept pulling the charging handle and hitting the side."
The break in gunfire allowed Meli to pull out his own gun, but he never took his eyes off the shooter.
"As I was going down to pull, I saw someone in the back of the Charlotte move, and I knew if I fired and missed, I could hit them," he said.
Meli took cover inside a nearby store. He never pulled the trigger. He stands by that decision.
"I'm not beating myself up cause I didn't shoot him," said Meli. "I know after he saw me, I think the last shot he fired was the one he used on himself."

 

[silverunicorn]

Not totally true except for the school incidents. Gabby Gifford? The Oregon Mall incident? (minimized the body count by the presence of a responsible armed citizen)

Clackamas mall shooter faced man with concealed weapon | kgw.com Portland

PORTLAND -- Nick Meli is emotionally drained. The 22-year-old was at Clackamas Town Center with a friend and her baby when a masked man opened fire.
"I heard three shots and turned and looked at Casey and said, 'are you serious?,'" he said.
The friend and baby hit the floor. Meli, who has a concealed carry permit, positioned himself behind a pillar.
"He was working on his rifle," said Meli. "He kept pulling the charging handle and hitting the side."
The break in gunfire allowed Meli to pull out his own gun, but he never took his eyes off the shooter.
"As I was going down to pull, I saw someone in the back of the Charlotte move, and I knew if I fired and missed, I could hit them," he said.
Meli took cover inside a nearby store. He never pulled the trigger. He stands by that decision.
"I'm not beating myself up cause I didn't shoot him," said Meli. "I know after he saw me, I think the last shot he fired was the one he used on himself."

I did forget about the Gabby Giofford incident. I though malls were listed as "gun free Zones". I know here they are here in PA. And the movie theater in Colorado was as well.

But I digress. When criminals want to commit crime, laws and rules go right out the window.

Chris

 

[Short Bus]

Y'all are missing the true issue.

I didn't miss the issue,my heart goes out to all involved and their family, friends and anyone else truly touched be this. I've said my piece about guns and I'll drop it, you're right this should be about the people, not the tools used.

 

[The_Roadie]

...this should be about the people...

I agree, but a lot of folks (not on this site) are trying to merge the issues and use the tragedy to advance their private agendas. That sort of thing should be discouraged by engaging in a rational discussion.

 

[meerschm]

I know lots of folks do not want to consider any rules for firearms. we have some fine rules, I see no difficulty in discussing a few more or a few adjustments to those on the books.

This shooter used legal firearms his law abiding mother (as far as this goes) purchased and had where they were available.


she did not buy or practice making truck bombs or pipe bombs, she took her son to the firing range.

it does seem in this case that a change in rules which delayed the carnage may have saved a young life or two.


we have people we have in this nation, some good, some very capable, some not so much.


Merry Christmas.

 

[HARDTRAILZ]

This shooter used legal firearms...

Bullshit...He used stolen firearms.

 

[BO TIE SS]

Bullshit...

A healthy debate is fine. Please keep it civil.

 

[HARDTRAILZ]

That is civil. Ignorant statements like that are a huge part of the gun issue. The kid did not own the guns...in fact he was denied purchasing,so he stole them. Whether it was from his mom or the crack dealer on the corner it doesn't matter.

 

[Busterbrown]

Society is broken. We need to bring back family and morals and personal responsibility and accountability.

From my perspective, this is much of what has changed in our western society. In past generations, the traditional "family, moral and faith-based" value systems were dominate in most households. Rhetorical as it may be, America has always defined itself by its people, its culture, its moral fortitude.

However, deconstructing the last two decades reveals radical changes in the values that we once held as a STANDARD in our daily lives. Through social media, technology, and modern warfare, Americans (especially the youth of the country) have become severely desensatized to societal events, moral virtues, and (as stated above) personal accountability. Gun control and gun reform isn't the holistic solution. Having parents that "give-a-damn" is. (Generalize "parents" to include any influencial authority who contributes to the growth of our children).

 

[Denali n DOO]

seems everyone wants to comment on gun control. Go to this thread if you want to comment on gun control http://gmtnation.com/f18/should-united-states-have-better-gun-control-5974/#post111500 .

 

[northcreek]

seems everyone wants to comment on gun control. Go to this thread if you want to comment on gun control http://gmtnation.com/f18/should-united-states-have-better-gun-control-5974/#post111500 .

I agree,also we might include "faith based" comments as having a dedicated thread at another forum...Mike.