I need some front-end help!

[cchuffman]

My 2003 Envoy has developed in intermittent clunk and rattle that comes from the front when I go over bumps. When these noises occur, I can feel the steering wheel move a little bit. I also get this feeling that the truck is not fully planted to the road when this happens. I have lifted the front and tried to move the wheel on its horizontal and vertical axes. This test yielded no excess movement.
I have almost 160,000 miles on the vehicle, and everything in the suspension is still OEM stock. (I know that I will catch some flak from some of you on this fact, and I probably deserve it.) I was planning on replacing the shocks and struts in the next couple months, but now this makes me think I have bigger problems. My budget doesn’t really allow me to have this work done, so I will need to fix this myself. Rather than just replacing parts, hoping that I happen upon the solution, I would like to have a specific plan of attack.
Does anyone here know what might be causing this sound/feeling? And is this something I can fix myself? I would appreciate any advice/help you may be able to offer.

 

[Mooseman]

The most common cause for this type of noise is the stabilizer end links. If everything is still stock, these are likely the cause. Next would be the usual tie-rods and ball joints. I have less mileage than yours and all of these have been replaced.

 

[DJones]

The end links are the easiest and cheapest part to replace.

 

[The_Roadie]

And while you're down there, look at the rubber bushings in brackets that hold the front anti-sway bar to the frame. If these deteriorate, they can allow the bar to hit metal on metal and make a lot of noise.

 

[meerschm]

you also could stop by a tire place (firestone, goodyear, tires plus...)

and ask if they would take a look and give you an extimate.

they should be able to (and may) give you a read on what is really bad, and a comparison price you can use to justify your DIY activities.

depending on what you will do, you will need somplace to perform an allignment when it is done.

 

[cchuffman]

Could bad struts be the cause? Or anything related to them?

 

[blazinlow89]

Could bad struts be the cause? Or anything related to them?

Any front end component is possible. Most likely is the end links, mine have been shot for some time now and a new set of 4 set me back about $70 (front and rear). Like stated you can replace the sway bar mount bushings as well, they have urethane replacement at most Autozone's, you just need to know the Dia.

Generally you would want to start with the cheapest objects first. I am replacing everything and so far the price tag is $800.

 

[djthumper]

It could be but not very likely.

 

[The_Roadie]

Is there any reason to not just troubleshoot it by ear? Get somebody to bounce the bumper up and down while you get under it and listen.Then jack one wheel at a time and see if anything creaks or looks loose when moved.

 

[blazinlow89]

Is there any reason to not just troubleshoot it by ear? Get somebody to bounce the bumper up and down while you get under it and listen.Then jack one wheel at a time and see if anything creaks or looks loose when moved.

Just throw parts at it, that's the aircraft mechanics way.

 

[cchuffman]

Thanks to you all for the help. I plan on jacking up each side tonight and seeing if anything is loose.
On a side note, I was looking at the potential price of the replacement parts (end links, tie rods, ball joints), and I was wondering of any of you had an opinion on using greasable or greaseless fittings. The stock parts are obviously not greasable, but is there an advantage to using parts that are?
Just wondering what you think ...

 

[The_Roadie]

Greaseable parts may last longer, but only if you regularly grease them. OEM parts are designed to low cost, and millions of Zerks add up. Manufacturers don't care when something fails after the warranty is up - actually they rejoice, because that's revenue that many owners will just hand over the dealers.

 

[BRomanJr]

Thanks to you all for the help. I plan on jacking up each side tonight and seeing if anything is loose.
On a side note, I was looking at the potential price of the replacement parts (end links, tie rods, ball joints), and I was wondering of any of you had an opinion on using greasable or greaseless fittings. The stock parts are obviously not greasable, but is there an advantage to using parts that are?
Just wondering what you think ...

Be aware, if you jack one side the Stabilizer bar will put tension on both the end links and the bushings so you won't find any play.

While on a level surface, try turning the wheels to one side, find the end links and watch or feel them while someone rocks the vehicle side to side.

The re-greasable/non re-greasable is an ongoing topic for discussion. IMHO, if sealed well enough, initial greasing is sufficient to last the life of the joint, but if the joint is not fully sealed from the elements it should be re-greasable.

 

[cchuffman]

Manufacturers don't care when something fails after the warranty is up - actually they rejoice, because that's revenue that many owners will just hand over the dealers.

Amen to that!

 

[cchuffman]

So I wanted you all to know what I found out ...
I checked everything myself, and I found nothing loose. So I just figured that my 10 year old car was beginning to rattle a little bit. I then took it to get it's yearly state inspection, and the mechanic told me that the lower ball joints were going bad. He came to this concludion by jacking the car from under the LCA and then taking a large prybar and lifting the tire with it. I was able to see the wheel hub lift off the LCA, so I knew we found the culprit.
As a side note, I do trust this mechanic's opinion for two reasons. First, his shop does not do ball joints or anything having to do with suspensions. They mainly do body work. They only do inspections because they take no time, and it's steady work. So any diagnosis of suspension problems would put no money in their pocket. Secondly, my mechanic recommended them. He was just really busy that day and wouldnt be able to get to my car. I trust him and his reconmendations.
This leads me to my next question. Can I replace ball joints myself? I don't have access to air tools, so this would have to be done with basic hand tools if I were to do it myself. I think there may be some specialty tools I'll need, but I'm sure I can rent them or get them on loan from my local parts store.
What are your opinions?

 

[Playsinsnow]

So I wanted you all to know what I found out ...
I checked everything myself, and I found nothing loose. So I just figured that my 10 year old car was beginning to rattle a little bit. I then took it to get it's yearly state inspection, and the mechanic told me that the lower ball joints were going bad. He came to this concludion by jacking the car from under the LCA and then taking a large prybar and lifting the tire with it. I was able to see the wheel hub lift off the LCA, so I knew we found the culprit.
As a side note, I do trust this mechanic's opinion for two reasons. First, his shop does not do ball joints or anything having to do with suspensions. They mainly do body work. They only do inspections because they take no time, and it's steady work. So any diagnosis of suspension problems would put no money in their pocket. Secondly, my mechanic recommended them. He was just really busy that day and wouldnt be able to get to my car. I trust him and his reconmendations.
This leads me to my next question. Can I replace ball joints myself? I don't have access to air tools, so this would have to be done with basic hand tools if I were to do it myself. I think there may be some specialty tools I'll need, but I'm sure I can rent them or get them on loan from my local parts store.
What are your opinions?

Some say the lower bj can be quite difficult to press out. You should be able to rent the press. Get the set with most pieces so you have the right one. Me, I'm bribing a buddy with beer and food afterwards. Most shops will charge an hour a bj. We all know when done right, it doesn't take that long.

 

[blazinlow89]

It took me 6 hours while doing other things to take my mind off of it to get the passenger side out. Gave up for the night came back out the next day and set the press up and hit the top of the screw with a 4lbs sledge and it popped right out. Drive side took all of an hour to press the old one out and put the new one in. Lube everything with PB blaster a few days before to let it work in, and buy a cheap steel chisel to break the tabs that hold it in.

There are a lot of DIYs and videos of it.

 

[JCJARHEAD]

I too have the dreaded clunk when going over slow bumps. The LBJs were done not 2 years ago....I have read many threads on here and I wonder if in my case it could be the breakdown of the rubber bushings (there are 2 big ones) in the LCA bracket. It would appear that getting just the bracket off is not too bad....looks like 3 on top...two on the bottom. And then I might simply bring them to a machine shop...as they likely have a bearing press and have them punch out the old....and put in the new.

Is there any significant downside to my plan? I am speaking specifically about the bracket...not the entire LCA itself. I might order the poly bushings. I would prefer not to buy the whole LCA as I dont think I need more thann the bracket bushings?

 

[kawaholic]

So I wanted you all to know what I found out ...
I checked everything myself, and I found nothing loose. So I just figured that my 10 year old car was beginning to rattle a little bit. I then took it to get it's yearly state inspection, and the mechanic told me that the lower ball joints were going bad. He came to this concludion by jacking the car from under the LCA and then taking a large prybar and lifting the tire with it. I was able to see the wheel hub lift off the LCA, so I knew we found the culprit.
As a side note, I do trust this mechanic's opinion for two reasons. First, his shop does not do ball joints or anything having to do with suspensions. They mainly do body work. They only do inspections because they take no time, and it's steady work. So any diagnosis of suspension problems would put no money in their pocket. Secondly, my mechanic recommended them. He was just really busy that day and wouldnt be able to get to my car. I trust him and his reconmendations.
This leads me to my next question. Can I replace ball joints myself? I don't have access to air tools, so this would have to be done with basic hand tools if I were to do it myself. I think there may be some specialty tools I'll need, but I'm sure I can rent them or get them on loan from my local parts store.
What are your opinions?

Good job!!! I say go for it!!! Plenty of folks here to help if you get into trouble.

 

[kawaholic]

Most shops will charge an hour a bj. We all know when done right, it doesn't take that long.

I wish we had those kind of "shops" around here.
I'd be willing to pay for the full hour either way...

 

[RamAirDave]

I just replaced the endlinks and the sway bar bushings....still have the dreaded clunking over railroad tracks...mostly on the drivers side. Gonna take it and have the ball joint done...I could do it myself but I really dont want to lol!!

I hope that is the fix...its really annoying and when its bobbling like that the vehicle is not planted at all and seems very hard to control. Only at 125k miles.
Dave

 

[Wooluf1952]

I just replaced the endlinks and the sway bar bushings....still have the dreaded clunking over railroad tracks...mostly on the drivers side. Gonna take it and have the ball joint done...I could do it myself but I really dont want to lol!!

I hope that is the fix...its really annoying and when its bobbling like that the vehicle is not planted at all and seems very hard to control. Only at 125k miles.
Dave

Have you checked the tie rod ends and shocks?

 

[Playsinsnow]