Hello from the Netherlands

[fabricsman]

Hello all,

My name is John-John and my family and I live in Bennebroek, the Netherlands.

At this moment we are in the progress of buying an 2001 TB with a bad engine and an extra engine with it for the swap. We want to buy an TB because my wife and I like cars and it is getting pretty boring on the road over here. Everyone drives there small fuel economic cars. So we want to spice it up a bit! We found this TB in Germany and to make it a bit affordable it has to be 15 yeas old or else you go bankrupt over here.

We want to buy a cool looking car and keep it as long as we can afford and if not rather keep it in storage then sell it. With not having any family from my side and no history in what so ever way I want to build my own memories while driving this car with my 2 boys so they will remember all the fun trips we had with it when they are older and hopefully they want to keep the car. I know this will probably cost more then the value of the car but he, Only one life and enjoy it while it last.

So we searched for a suv we like and found the TB. This particular one isn't old enough but since we have some plans with it it will sit in the garage for about a month or 6.

This is the one I'm aiming for http://ww3.autoscout24.de/classified/276422304?asrc=st|as

What do I (read wife and I) like to do.

Modern xenon headlights if there are nice good quality aftermarkets.
LED taillights, same story as above.
Runningboards, Nerfboards (I think I like them with lights build in) Opinions welcome!
New Stereo double din. (thinking about Nexus 7 or some other plug and play android system.
Lower the car for about 2 inches we wont drive it off-road.
Bigger rims, we like the SS Style or a good looking aftermarket (Can imagine the originals are expensive)
Mesh grill.
SS front a rear bumper or an aftermarket equivalent.
LED upgrade the interior lights.
Electronic exhaust cut off valve (make some noise!!!)
Some other fun things to have and use.

So this is my introduction hope you like it and I hope to find all the answers on my questions that will come up.
IF you have any comment or questions do feel free. And all the advice for buying a TB are welcome. I may say I'm pretty handy with tools in electronics and parts so this why I'm not scared of buying this TB. I will do the engine swap with a friend of mine and I got more then enough time to fix about everything.

Greetings, JJ

 

[dkvasnicka]

Yay, another GMT in Europe! Welcome!
EUR 3.6k for a 2001 with a dead engine is a lot... at least from my perspective, I don't know the NL economy, maybe it's an OK price on your market.

 

[fabricsman]

Thank you, true it is a pretty steep price compared to the US and even to other cars overhere. But let me explain, this car has liquid gas system build in (costs about 2K) petrol costs about 1.65 euro per liter LPG half of it.

I can buy an newer car that is ready to roll but even only owning a car is expensive over here.

Roadtax as we call it about 1800 euro each year so together with the gas price we are talking about a lot of money each months. The thing is if you drive a car paid by your company you can let the company pay all the costs and you can deduct the tax and other costs but then you have to add a bout 25% off the price when the car was brand new at the dealer to your income. This would be about 18K each year!! And maybe you know we start at 30% Income tax and end with 52%. So this will costs me another 9K out of my own pocket every year!

To make more affordable there is some sort of loophole. A car 15 year or older is more affordable. You only have to add 35% of the street value of this day to your income what would be about 800 Euro and then pay the 52% what is just over 400 Euro, safes a lot dont you think.

So this is why I´m kind of stuck to a car from at max 2001.

 

[dkvasnicka]

Understood 1800 EUR / year road tax is a massive lump of money!

Is the LPG system OK? Wasn't it part of the failure of the engine? Quite a lot of people here drive LPG cars too, mainly those with big engines. But the quality of the conversion builds varies a lot. That's why I didn't want to buy a 9-7X with LPG in it because I wanted to be able to have some control over it when/if I decide to go for it. Too many LPG people around me going "oh yeah, drives well, I just have this little light on the dash here..." and such

 

[BlazingTrails]

Welcome to the Nation!

Man that is a nice truck you are looking to buy, it looks very clean and fully loaded for 2001/2002!

In the united states this model did not start until 2002.

 

[fabricsman]

Understood [emoji2] 1800 EUR / year road tax is a massive lump of money!

Is the LPG system OK? Wasn't it part of the failure of the engine? Quite a lot of people here drive LPG cars too, mainly those with big engines. But the quality of the conversion builds varies a lot. That's why I didn't want to buy a 9-7X with LPG in it because I wanted to be able to have some control over it when/if I decide to go for it. Too many LPG people around me going "oh yeah, drives well, I just have this little light on the dash here..." and such [emoji3]

The lpg system is from femitec type stag 300. No clue if this is the part that made it fail it looks like a good system. The engine light is something what happens more in newer cars as far as I know. Haven't bought the car yet still negotiating about the last details but I do hope we can buy it.

 

[dkvasnicka]

Welcome to the Nation!

Man that is a nice truck you are looking to buy, it looks very clean and fully loaded for 2001/2002!

In the united states this model did not start until 2002.

Were any GMT360s other than the Saab ever sold officially in Europe? Seems unlikely that GM would introduce the model in Europe first, if it was sold here at all in the first place.
IMHO it is a 2002 model but built in 2001, US import. But that's just a guess, let the OP shed more light on that

 

[BlazingTrails]

Were any GMT360s other than the Saab ever sold officially in Europe? Seems unlikely that GM would introduce the model in Europe first, if it was sold here at all in the first place.
IMHO it is a 2002 model but built in 2001, US import. But that's just a guess, let the OP shed more light on that

That is what I though was the case as I saw it was manufactured in 9/2001 should make it a 2002. I was thinking maybe it was different the way they do it over there because you said 2001.

I will say that over here a truck like that with LPG installed and being fully loaded even with a bad engine $4,000 is not a bad price at all. I would like to have a LPG vehicle as I understand it is more economical and better for the environment.

This is my truck. 2005

[sharedmedia=gallery:images:1453]

 

[dkvasnicka]

The US seems to stil have quite a few blank spots on its LPG map but that's just a matter of time, especially now with the shale boom. It seems to be quite expensive, though. And if you factor in the increased consumption that a car has compared to gasoline...
Here in Europe LPG is usually ~1/2 the price of gasoline. If I'm searching correctly in the US the prices are almost the same or even more expensive...

You're right about the environment and from what I know it's also better for the engine.

 

[fletch09]

Welcome

 

[Harpo]

Welcome Euro neighbour.

 

[HARDTRAILZ]

Welcome.

I think there is one LPG station within 100 miles of me so I have no desire to own one, but can see how there it would be a major asset.

Hope the purchase works out for you.

 

[fabricsman]

Were any GMT360s other than the Saab ever sold officially in Europe? Seems unlikely that GM would introduce the model in Europe first, if it was sold here at all in the first place.
IMHO it is a 2002 model but built in 2001, US import. But that's just a guess, let the OP shed more light on that

The TB has never been sold through the official channels. It is all import and I think there are not more then 10.000 in Europe. Call me crazy but we are negotiating for the last 250 Euro now in favor. It looks like a nice car but there is one small dent in the wing??? I think the seller want to say fender and there is some rust on the inner side of the hood.

I've read this is a common issue and should be fixed easily. To talk about the lpg it is better for the environment but also for my wallet. You can find an lpg station within a 10 mile radius over here. Holland is tiny [emoji1]

But for now back to the negotiations.
Will let you all know if I succeeded.

 

[Mooseman]

Welcome to the Nation!

The "wing" is likely the translation from "aile" in French which is literally a wing but in automotive means fender.

TB's imported into Europe had to be fitted with amber turn signals and rear fog light so these were called "exports" to us.

I have seen a couple of 2001 TB's over there. Could be a terminology thing where we start a new model year around September/October but Europe uses the build date for model year designation.

I paid $1300CAD for my 2002 TB EXT with a knocking engine and damaged front bumper. I spent a lot of time and money fixing it, even after replacing the engine, as there was more stuff that needed to be replaced (surprise!). Inspect as much as you can and assume that the engine failed because of poor maintenance (which was my case). With only 125 000 Km, why would it fail?

With included replacement engine, it might not be a bad deal. If it's been for sale for a while, I would definitely negotiate down. And looking at the pictures, it's also missing the radio, another expense.

Good luck!

 

[dkvasnicka]

TB's imported into Europe had to be fitted with amber turn signals and rear fog light so these were called "exports" to us.

"Fortunately", with 9-7X no turn signals had to be changed because they were always amber. I'm using quotes because I love the american way of using the whole cluster of red lights on the appropriate side of the vehicle as a turn signal. To me it's lovely minimalist and way better recognizable, mainly when braking and turning at the same time (you can't overlook it if all of them flash, including the brake light). Such is my experience from my business trips to the Bay Area.

I hope to have a car that has this one day... even though it's illegal here

 

[Boricua SS]

Welcome! My mother is from the Netherland Antilles from the island of Aruba where they speak Papiamentu. She migrated to the states when she was 18 years old.

Hope you're able to close the deal on this truck. Good luck

 

[Mounce]

Welcome aboard, glad to have you. Hope we can help you have fond memories of the TB!

 

[dmanns67]

Welcome to the Nation!

 

[SnowBlazer]

Glad you found us. Welcome!!

 

[BC backroader]

Welcome to the nation, fabricsman. Regarding LPG, I have some experience here in Canada, where LPG stations are common, at least in the major urban areas. In 1989, I bought a new GMC K2500 pick up for my business, and had it converted to LPG, which at the time was selling at about 60% of the cost of reg. gas. That % remained about the same for the 26 years that I operated the truck, during which I put 1,270,000 km on it. During those years, I replaced the engine 3 times, and the cause of failure was the same each time, hydrolock due to the failure of the head gasket on a bank of cylinders. Other than those problems, the engines always ran well, with the spark plugs and engine oil remaining clean for much longer than is common with gasoline. During the time I owned it, I believe that I saved at least $60,000 in fuel costs, while replacing the engine 3 times cost less than $10,000, so a net saving of $2,000/year.

The engine in the truck you are buying most likely died of the same cause as mine did, heat failure/hydrolock, so be aware of this problem with the new engine. I would watch very carefully for any signs of coolant loss, and possibly replace the head gasket every 100,000 km as a preventive measure.

Your truck will certainly stand out from the crowd in Holland!

 

[Mooseman]

A word of warning about doing an R&R on the head, these engines are not easy to do. You need special tools for the timing chain and the head bolts tend to break in the block.

Yeah, I remember driving LPG Chrysler K cars at my work in the late 80's. They were unusable below -20C.

 

[fabricsman]

Thank you all for welcoming me. The deal is sealed and I'm going to pick up the TB in about 3 weeks. The head is already removed from the spare engine so I'm thinking about an instantly replacing of all the valves for new hardened ones. They last a lot longer on lpg. Sadly/gladly temperature here in Holland normally runs from 27 to -7 during the year. Holland is about the size of New Hampshire and as flat as an well baked morning pancake. This will all safe the engine but as we are expecting to do some traveling with a trailer in the nearby future I will also install an extra cooler for the tranny and probably run the car on regular gas during the towing. For now just 3 sleepless weeks till it sits in my garage. And then we have about 6 months to get this baby up and running. Should be more then enough time. Ps we are on metric system temperature is not Fahrenheit [emoji3]