Envoy shuts off after starting, even while driving.

[Envoy99]

I have a 2006 GMC envoy XL, 180k miles and its now having a serious issue.

For the last month or so, sometimes when starting the envoy It cranks and starts then dies pretty much immediately before it can go to idle. I then wait 30 seconds, try starting it, and it starts right on up with no other problems for the rest of the day. I can't say for certain but the days it doesn't start on the first time seem to be when it has sat a couple days. Do not know if this is related. I was told by a few people (not mechanics) it was likely electrical and since this envoy has had so many electrical gremlins, I honestly did not think much of it.

The real problem started today, it is the coldest day of the year so far where I am (about 3 degrees outside) and it did the same thing, wouldn't start at first then started on the second try. Everything seemed fine and I sat in there for about a minute with it idling to let the engine warm up and it abruptly died after idleing for a minute. I have never had this happen. Battery gauge showed it was charging fine. I then started it back up, it idled for about 3 minutes, everything seemed normal but when I put it in drive and started to to pull out of the driveway it died while in drive. This really freaked me out, if I would have made it out of my driveway and onto the main road it could have been serious.

A couple things to note: It has been very cold as I said, it was 3 degrees today. I have also been dealing with a problem for around a year I am not sure is related or not, for the past year whenever I put gas in the car, it cranks a really long time to start and I usually have to give it a little gas while starting. This only happens the first time starting the car after getting gas, never any other time. I was told this was the "purge valve solenoid" but I am not sure this is related. That is the only "starting" issue the car has ever had. The battery in the car is about 6 years old, alternator was replaced 2 years ago, I am not sure how old the starter is.

Current check engine codes are: P0017, P0442, and P0496.

Do you guys have any suggestions on what to look at or where to start? I am not too mechanically inclined. I simply cannot afford a new truck right now in this economy, so any help at all would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Mooseman]

Welcome to the Nation and Merry Christmas.

Sounds like a fuel issue, possibly a failing fuel pump. You should get a fuel pressure test gauge on it. Warning: Be careful when connecting to the test port on the fuel rail. It's in a weird position and the tester can put some strain on it at an angle, fracturing the rail. Ask me how I know.

We already have a thread on a similar issue as yours, which was a bad fuel pump.

SOLVED! - TB starts then dies like fuel pump goes off

Hello im stuck. My 04 tb died on the hiway yesterday and will not start up. It starts but then dies as if the fuel pump goes back off. I have changed the crank sensor. Checked for fuel at regulator.. all the usual suspects even checked all the pins at the fuel pump relay .. the only thing im...

gmtnation.com

Don't take it as gospel. Do your testing first and go from the results.

 

[Blckshdw]

it died while in drive. This really freaked me out, if I would have made it out of my driveway and onto the main road it could have been serious.

I've had this happen a few times since I've owned my EXT. Don't freak out if that does happen, shift it into nuetral so you can coast, and this will also allow you to restart the engine. When it does fire, drop it back into drive, and continue on your way.

 

[Envoy99]

I've had this happen a few times since I've owned my EXT. Don't freak out if that does happen, shift it into nuetral so you can coast, and this will also allow you to restart the engine. When it does fire, drop it back into drive, and continue on your way.

Noob question, but when it happens at speed, do the breaks still function? Are you still able to steer, it's just like driving without power steering?

How did you end up resolving the issue?

 

[Envoy99]

Welcome to the Nation and Merry Christmas.

Sounds like a fuel issue, possibly a failing fuel pump. You should get a fuel pressure test gauge on it. Warning: Be careful when connecting to the test port on the fuel rail. It's in a weird position and the tester can put some strain on it at an angle, fracturing the rail. Ask me how I know.

We already have a thread on a similar issue as yours, which was a bad fuel pump.

SOLVED! - TB starts then dies like fuel pump goes off

Hello im stuck. My 04 tb died on the hiway yesterday and will not start up. It starts but then dies as if the fuel pump goes back off. I have changed the crank sensor. Checked for fuel at regulator.. all the usual suspects even checked all the pins at the fuel pump relay .. the only thing im...

gmtnation.com

Don't take it as gospel. Do your testing first and go from the results.

Thank you for the suggestion and Merry Christmas to you as well!

I do not have a fuel pressure test gauge (or really any specialty tools), is this something I can rent or get cheap somewhere?

Assuming it does turn out to be the fuel pump, I have little mechanical experience, I do my own oil changes, have done breaks and replaced wheel bearings... I looked into the fuel pump and found a video by "ChrisFix" on youtube, he made it seem easy as can be but I am not sure if this is deceiving. How hard are these fuel pumps in reality? I always thought fuel pumps were a huge to do but on these vehicles if it is truly as easy as disconnecting a few things, dropping the tank, and putting in a new pump I am definitely going to attempt it.

What is the correct part number for the fuel pump? I see them online ranging from $100-$500. What is the best option to get on a budget? I am honestly just trying to keep this thing running until finances are better.

Thank you so much for your help so far, I truly appreciate it!

 

[Blckshdw]

Noob question, but when it happens at speed, do the breaks still function? Are you still able to steer, it's just like driving without power steering?

How did you end up resolving the issue?

I'm not sure exactly how the brakes behave in that event. I know the brake pedal will get super firm when the engine isn't running, but when I've been moving, I don't hit the brakes as I didn't want to disrupt traffic. Yes the steering is heavy at slow speeds, like being without power steering, as our columns do not lock.

My truck has a strange phenomenon, where at times when I am coasting (usually at low speeds, before coming to a stop) sometimes the engine bogs down a bit and the RPMs dip. 98% of the time, it recovers after a second or 2, but the other 2% of the time, it will stall out. I can't reproduce it on command, no codes, throttle body cleaning doesn't change anything. True mystery.

The first time it happened to me, I was in the middle of a 4 lane highway in heavy, but moving, rush hour traffic, so I couldn't pull over to the shoulder. Hit my hazard flashers while trying to figure out what to do before I rolled to a stop in the middle of everything. Luckily I remembered you can start the engine in neutral, tried it, and it worked just fine. 😌

I haven't had to swap my fuel pump yet, but the ChrisFix videos are usually pretty reliable. He used to be a member here a while back. Or maybe it was with the previous site....

 

[Mooseman]

The brakes will work for a couple of pumps on reserve vacuum. Steering will get hard with no power steering. Not a good idea, safety wise, to be driving a vehicle that can quit anytime.

I do believe you can rent those fuel pressure test kits free from parts stores or they aren't too expensive to buy. This one comes to just over $20 with an 8% coupon:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07VB7H98K/?tag=gmtnation-20

But I would get this one as it has more adapters in case it's needed on other vehicles:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B23XM99Z/?tag=gmtnation-20

This video shows how to test fuel pressure.

However the test port is not in the same location. Best pic I could find is this one. It's where cap #3 is located.

 

[budwich]

I would pay attention to the codes you are seeing. Cold weather brings out the "best in failures". Two codes are likely related to a purge valve issue (which maybe causing problems with a engine vacuum / fueling) while the 0017 will potentially have problems with timing. I somehow doubt that these are fuel pump related so that would not be a direction to head in... my opinion.

Of course, doing the fuel pressure test can't hurt.

 

[Envoy99]

I would pay attention to the codes you are seeing. Cold weather brings out the "best in failures". Two codes are likely related to a purge valve issue (which maybe causing problems with a engine vacuum / fueling) while the 0017 will potentially have problems with timing. I somehow doubt that these are fuel pump related so that would not be a direction to head in... my opinion.

Of course, doing the fuel pressure test can't hurt.

I ordered the purge valve and will replace it when it gets here, I shouldn't have held off this long. Do most people simply replace it from the top or do they jack it up? Any good guides? Unfortunately (or fortunately maybe) I have not been able to replicate the issue at all, I have put around 300 miles on it since it happened and nothing, it runs like brand new. It has been slightly warmer outside so I guess the next cold day will be the real test.

 

[BPEnvoy]

I ordered the purge valve and will replace it when it gets here, I shouldn't have held off this long. Do most people simply replace it from the top or do they jack it up? Any good guides? Unfortunately (or fortunately maybe) I have not been able to replicate the issue at all, I have put around 300 miles on it since it happened and nothing, it runs like brand new. It has been slightly warmer outside so I guess the next cold day will be the real test.

I know this is 4 years old, did the purge valve fix the problem? I have the same problem. It is cold weather related. I had the issue last winter then all summer long it started every time. The issue started up again this fall when the temps dropped. One thing that I didn't see mentioned above is that when it stalls, if you try to restart before waiting about 20 seconds, nothing happens when you turn the key. No dings, no turn over, acts like a completely dead battery, but if you wait 20 seconds it starts up and then maybe dies. Once the engine is warm it won't stall until the next time it has sat and gotten cold.

 

[Mooseman]

Not 4 years, just 11 months

I'm not too sure the purge valve would cause something like this. I'd be looking at fuel. But to not want to crank, look towards the ignition switch or possibly the neutral safety switch.

 

[Envoy99]

I know this is 4 years old, did the purge valve fix the problem? I have the same problem. It is cold weather related. I had the issue last winter then all summer long it started every time. The issue started up again this fall when the temps dropped. One thing that I didn't see mentioned above is that when it stalls, if you try to restart before waiting about 20 seconds, nothing happens when you turn the key. No dings, no turn over, acts like a completely dead battery, but if you wait 20 seconds it starts up and then maybe dies. Once the engine is warm it won't stall until the next time it has sat and gotten cold.

Hi, that is the EXACT same problem that I have been having down to the last detail, couldn't have described it better myself. My envoy has been sitting for awhile now, I drove it a bit in the summer but as you know, this issue arises in the winter and I have been too busy to dig more into it until today.

I changed the purge valve earlier today (I went in right through the top, my arms are pretty scraped up but I got it done in about 20 minutes) and while it does somehow seem to have made the problem better (doesn't seem to stall as much) it did not fix it. It is still stalling. What the purge valve replacement did fix was the hard start after getting gas. Let me know if you find a solution.

 

[Envoy99]

Not 4 years, just 11 months

I'm not too sure the purge valve would cause something like this. I'd be looking at fuel. But to not want to crank, look towards the ignition switch or possibly the neutral safety switch.

Are you saying that this may be a combination of things, potentially fuel for the stalling and the not wanting to crank after stalling being another unrelated isue?

 

[Mooseman]

No matter what, there is something electrical happening that is preventing a no crank situation. If the ignition switch is intermittently losing a connection, especially the one that powers the PCM, it will cause the stall and then possibly the no crank afterwards since it's the PCM that signals the starter relay. I'd replace the ignition switch and check its outputs. There have been instances where power to the PCM would drop out when turning the key to crank but would come back on when returned to the run position.