drwfaulk said:
Got it painted the other day I love it
That looks really nice! Is that the green filter I was hearing about on this site?
DIY air intake with IAT sensor
- Thread starter Shdwdrgn
- Start date
That looks really nice! Is that the green filter I was hearing about on this site?
- Dec 4, 2011
- 568
MichEnvoyGuy said:
What I'd be more concerned about is that the picture shows the filter laying across the air intake box, at nearly 45 degrees to the direction the filter is supposed to lay inside the box. If the product is really as poorly constructed as the picture shows, you would not be able to put the top back on the air box, and effectively make your intake perform much worse due to sucking in nothing but hot engine air.
rppoit
Member
- Apr 11, 2012
- 47
Very Nice!
Too bad this idea wasent around before I bought my airaid CAI. 
I think Im gonna try and utilize part of this DIY and run some tubing from my CAI to my TB deleting the resonator. And the best part Is the only drilling Ill have to do is for the hoses connected to the resonator. :wootwoot:
Too bad this idea wasent around before I bought my airaid CAI. I think Im gonna try and utilize part of this DIY and run some tubing from my CAI to my TB deleting the resonator. And the best part Is the only drilling Ill have to do is for the hoses connected to the resonator. :wootwoot:
- Dec 4, 2011
- 568
Houston, we have a problem! This Summer I've been noticing that my intake pipe was pressing against one of the coil packs, and over time the rubber boot connecting the pipe to the throttle body has been getting stretched to the side. Today while cleaning my TB, I decided to take a good look and see just what the problem was. And boy did I find it.
It appears that the engine heat was causing the curved pipe to straighten, which seemed odd. I decided to toss the pipe in the oven and warm it up a bit so I could try and give it a little extra bend again. When I pulled it out of the oven, the pipe had nearly straightened itself out.
Using clamps and gloved hands, I tried to roll the pipe back into a nice curve, but it pretty much just wanted to fold up on itself. Essentially that chunk of pipe is ruined, so I had to put my stock intake back on, then go hit the stores and see what I could find for building a new intake.While thinking about the problem, I believe I have come up with the cause. Normally when plastic is lightly heated, it wants to return to the shape it was formed in, but this grey conduit seems to be trying to straighten out. I think perhaps the pipe IS created as a straight pipe, then while still hot it is formed around a mandrel to create the bend. Thus, heat makes the plastic want to straighten out again.
Unfortunately there are no available curves in ABS or PVC pipe that has the nice graceful sweep like the conduit. The only option I see is going to PVC 45-degree street elbows, which are cast in the final shape. It won't look as nice on the outside, but the inside will still have a smooth bore, and it won't warp out of shape from the engine heat over time. Tomorrow I'll be getting started on the new model, and see how it goes...
- Dec 4, 2011
- 568
So I got started on building a new intake today. It will be built roughly the same, but with some key differences...
I started off with a 90-degree sweep curve (has the widest radius of what was available), which I then measured and cut to around 60-70 degrees. It was mainly just eyeballed to where the pipes from the TB and the filter box lined up. I left a little extra on my first cut, which gave me the room to make a final cut and line up the pipes perfectly.
The most work was put into the pipe coming from the airbox. The diameter of a 3" pipe is slightly larger than the stock piece, so the pipe does not sit easily in the slot. I used the lathe to take down the diameter about 1/8", so it fits like a stock piece now.
The problem I had with the original intake was it sit so closely to the coil pack that when the pipe started to deform, it started to rub. With a new straight-pipe lined up off the TB, you can see just how close it sits to the coil pack. As long as the pipes stay in place, this is not a problem.
So, the initial fitting is done. The next step is drilling the holes for the vacuum and IAT sensor, and the air-pump line. The 1" hose fitting seems to have broken free of the silicon on the first intake, so I want to take some time to find a better way to mount a new one.
- Use ABS pieces, including a 'cast' rather that 'formed' curve
- Try to use all brass fittings since the plastic ones deformed from engine temps
I started off with a 90-degree sweep curve (has the widest radius of what was available), which I then measured and cut to around 60-70 degrees. It was mainly just eyeballed to where the pipes from the TB and the filter box lined up. I left a little extra on my first cut, which gave me the room to make a final cut and line up the pipes perfectly.
The most work was put into the pipe coming from the airbox. The diameter of a 3" pipe is slightly larger than the stock piece, so the pipe does not sit easily in the slot. I used the lathe to take down the diameter about 1/8", so it fits like a stock piece now.
The problem I had with the original intake was it sit so closely to the coil pack that when the pipe started to deform, it started to rub. With a new straight-pipe lined up off the TB, you can see just how close it sits to the coil pack. As long as the pipes stay in place, this is not a problem.
So, the initial fitting is done. The next step is drilling the holes for the vacuum and IAT sensor, and the air-pump line. The 1" hose fitting seems to have broken free of the silicon on the first intake, so I want to take some time to find a better way to mount a new one.
You can watch this .......
[video=youtube;PAIxeQUSg-Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAIxeQUSg-Q&feature=g-user-u[/video] .... and
[video=youtube;gCi2yo4UqPI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCi2yo4UqPI&feature=g-user-u[/video]
...... or spend the money for better oil or something like that.
[video=youtube;PAIxeQUSg-Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAIxeQUSg-Q&feature=g-user-u[/video] .... and
[video=youtube;gCi2yo4UqPI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCi2yo4UqPI&feature=g-user-u[/video]
...... or spend the money for better oil or something like that.
Mooseman
Moderator
- Dec 4, 2011
- 568
@gboos - Some questions about the videos you posted...
In the first, they show that there is no difference difference between using a cheap or expensive filter. That's all fine, but what was the power with the stock intake on the 'blue turd'? They completely ignored the purpose of the whole video -- to show if the pod filter provided any improvement over the stock filter on a completely stock vehicle. In regards to the discussion in this thread, the factory airbox is fairly tight around the factory air filter. I chose a pod filter for its conical shape and the possibility that it would allow more airflow between the airbox and filter without the need to chop up my airbox. This set of circumstances was not tested in the video, so the video doesn't really tell us anything useful in regards to our vehicles other than don't spend crazy money on an air filter.
In the second video they actually did a much better job of covering all circumstances, and the results are somewhat interesting right up until the very last test with the filter outside of the vehicle. In that test, they added a long ribbed hose, which is exactly the situation I am trying to get rid of by replacing the factory intake. And again, this video does not really apply to the intake in this thread because 1) they didn't remove any intake resonators, 2) they didn't clean up the airflow path from the filter to the engine, and 3) you seem to have the mistaken impression that changing the pipe between the filter and engine qualifies as a cold-air intake... it does not.
The project in this thread is about creating a smoother and less restrictive airflow path between the filter and engine. That is the intake system, but it is not a cold-air intake.
In the first, they show that there is no difference difference between using a cheap or expensive filter. That's all fine, but what was the power with the stock intake on the 'blue turd'? They completely ignored the purpose of the whole video -- to show if the pod filter provided any improvement over the stock filter on a completely stock vehicle. In regards to the discussion in this thread, the factory airbox is fairly tight around the factory air filter. I chose a pod filter for its conical shape and the possibility that it would allow more airflow between the airbox and filter without the need to chop up my airbox. This set of circumstances was not tested in the video, so the video doesn't really tell us anything useful in regards to our vehicles other than don't spend crazy money on an air filter.
In the second video they actually did a much better job of covering all circumstances, and the results are somewhat interesting right up until the very last test with the filter outside of the vehicle. In that test, they added a long ribbed hose, which is exactly the situation I am trying to get rid of by replacing the factory intake. And again, this video does not really apply to the intake in this thread because 1) they didn't remove any intake resonators, 2) they didn't clean up the airflow path from the filter to the engine, and 3) you seem to have the mistaken impression that changing the pipe between the filter and engine qualifies as a cold-air intake... it does not.
The project in this thread is about creating a smoother and less restrictive airflow path between the filter and engine. That is the intake system, but it is not a cold-air intake.
- Dec 4, 2011
- 568
Despite what the above videos imply, my personal opinion is that a smoother intake does translate to a slight power increase that can be felt. I finished drilling holes for the vacuum lines and IAT sensor this morning, and took it out for a drive around town. Over the past week while I've been using the stock intake again, it has felt sluggish, but now it has its pep back. I had to refill my tank, so I checked the mileage... 14.5mpg, mostly city driving, which is within the range I have been seeing while using my first DIY intake, so there is no apparent difference in mileage.
I'm not sure if I mentioned it elsewhere in this thread, but I do in fact have a cold-air mod as well. It seems ridiculous to have a 2" intake hole in the airbox feeding to a 3" pipe to the engine. I added a second 2" hole with a pipe feeding to it from in front of the radiator. Its not pretty (until you put the grill back on), but it more closely matches the potential for what the engine could suck in. The original intake provides 3.14 square inches of intake. Two 2" holes gives 6.28 square inches of intake, while the 3" pipe has 7.07 square inches. That's a pretty significant difference, and should allow the engine to breathe easier.
For the sake of comparison, please note that changing between the factory intake and my custom unit does NOT change the cold-air intake line. In both cases the extra 2" pipe was present, so the only difference was the pieces between the filter and the TB.
I'm not sure if I mentioned it elsewhere in this thread, but I do in fact have a cold-air mod as well. It seems ridiculous to have a 2" intake hole in the airbox feeding to a 3" pipe to the engine. I added a second 2" hole with a pipe feeding to it from in front of the radiator. Its not pretty (until you put the grill back on), but it more closely matches the potential for what the engine could suck in. The original intake provides 3.14 square inches of intake. Two 2" holes gives 6.28 square inches of intake, while the 3" pipe has 7.07 square inches. That's a pretty significant difference, and should allow the engine to breathe easier.
For the sake of comparison, please note that changing between the factory intake and my custom unit does NOT change the cold-air intake line. In both cases the extra 2" pipe was present, so the only difference was the pieces between the filter and the TB.
You may missed it from 3:50min in the 1st or lets call it POD video ... The stock setup had more power than with the POD's.
By the way you are talking about differences in the way the air can move better with a smoothed intake-setup ..... Hmmmm, have you ever thought about the difference with a faster incoming air and the throttle body response when you push the throttle and the incoming air with the stock setup and the throttle body response ? There is no difference, because the so called "faster air" is not able to move faster through the throttle body, because the throttle body has always the same reaction in time when you push the throttle. It means the advantage from "faster air" is erased like nuts.
The one effect you may the IAT/MAF measures "faster air" or "more air" and the PCM reacts on that, but after the throttle body the air is always the same, which means that the PCM gets the wrong "numbers" and therefore no optimized ignition. You have to do much much more steps to get an advantage from the "faster air" .... Much much more (!!!!)
With a TBSS it's a different story, because the throttle body response to a push on the throttle is more than 5 times faster than on the 4.2L I6.
Since when a "Cold-Air-Intake" on a turbo makes sense ? The car in the 2nd vid is a turbo charged car .... it doesn't matter there is coming "cold-air" through the breath line, the important temp after the turbo is important. That's why it is all steady there. The advantage of the way outlined and last test is, that the filter gets fresh air right from the fan, so the turbo is able to compress much more with oxygen filled and steady air .... With an installation inside the car you can try it everywhere and you never will have the same result. Because the setup is always stuck in getting enough air, due to the moving air and the aerodynamics on the front.
Result .... Re-Design the hole TB front to get a little bit of reasonable success from your thoughts, work and money. Otherwise it is like running in a circle. One problem solved will lead into another problem without a way out .... And be aware of these oil busted K&N filters .... They will destroy your IAT/MAF on the long run which, in worst case, could lead into much more problems in your engines.
- Dec 4, 2011
- 568
I see the part you're talking about, but I'm very confused about what they're trying to say... First they show that they are installing the IAT and MAP sensors into the pod filter, which is then installed in the factory airbox, but then when they run the dyno they say they are using a factory panel filter. So which setup was the final numbers for?
The throttle body limits the amount of air that can come into the engine, but a smoother intake reduces the amount of vacuum required to get that air into the engine. If your engine doesn't have to work as hard to breathe, it has more energy available for power to the wheels. Yes, we are talking about very small differences, but when you're trying to get the last drop out of your engine, those small differences can add up.
The IAT sensor does not measure airflow. It measures Incoming Air Temperature. Before 2006, the TB engine did not have an airflow sensor, which is why this mod is so simple on my older vehicle. I don't have to make any critical adjustments to recalibrate an airflow sensor, I just have to throw together a new set of parts, and I'm ready to go. As for throttle body response, a good PCM tune will also make the same difference.
And yes, I have to agree that a cold-air intake on a turbo doesn't seem to make much sense. But that was also part of my point... the test vehicle they used is nothing like what most people drive. All they showed was that trying to put a CAI on a high-performance engine is not worth the effort. What about those of us NOT running high performance 300HP engines? The video has no bearing to a trailblazer engine, so the results are meaningless to us. Why didn't they test a CAI on the blue-turd car, which is much more representative of what most people drive around?
And in regards to using oiled filters... They stated in the video that it will destroy the turbo (which in turn destroys the engine). And they were talking about the oil and water mixing, which is the cause of the failure. We don't have any kind of high-performance water injection system on the I6, and in fact there should not be any water present inside our engines... so once again, their warning to stay away from the oiled filters is completely irrelevant to the engine we have here. If we get a little oil from the air filter inside our engine, it would make no difference.
The throttle body limits the amount of air that can come into the engine, but a smoother intake reduces the amount of vacuum required to get that air into the engine. If your engine doesn't have to work as hard to breathe, it has more energy available for power to the wheels. Yes, we are talking about very small differences, but when you're trying to get the last drop out of your engine, those small differences can add up.
The IAT sensor does not measure airflow. It measures Incoming Air Temperature. Before 2006, the TB engine did not have an airflow sensor, which is why this mod is so simple on my older vehicle. I don't have to make any critical adjustments to recalibrate an airflow sensor, I just have to throw together a new set of parts, and I'm ready to go. As for throttle body response, a good PCM tune will also make the same difference.
And yes, I have to agree that a cold-air intake on a turbo doesn't seem to make much sense. But that was also part of my point... the test vehicle they used is nothing like what most people drive. All they showed was that trying to put a CAI on a high-performance engine is not worth the effort. What about those of us NOT running high performance 300HP engines? The video has no bearing to a trailblazer engine, so the results are meaningless to us. Why didn't they test a CAI on the blue-turd car, which is much more representative of what most people drive around?
And in regards to using oiled filters... They stated in the video that it will destroy the turbo (which in turn destroys the engine). And they were talking about the oil and water mixing, which is the cause of the failure. We don't have any kind of high-performance water injection system on the I6, and in fact there should not be any water present inside our engines... so once again, their warning to stay away from the oiled filters is completely irrelevant to the engine we have here. If we get a little oil from the air filter inside our engine, it would make no difference.
- Dec 4, 2011
- 568
gboos said:So why the hell you are not using an "Electrical Turbo Air Booster"Just think about.
I live in the mountains, and occasionally tow a 5000# trailer up the mountain, so anything that helps my engine get more air is a good thing. Unfortunately I have not heard good things about these electric turbos, either that they fall apart quickly, or that they simply do not push any more air than what the engine is already sucking. I would be willing to spring a couple hundred dollars for one if it were quiet and reliable.
This was an ironically question .... I see you are confident to go the right direction to gain more power with just a modded pipe after a POD and still restricted entrance. So be it .... I would like to see somebody would show how much air comes in and goes through the throttle body ... In both cases ... Tuned or not tuned. And I would like to see that somebody shows you the temps at the IAT/MAF and right after the throttle body .... In both cases .... I still asking myself, why the sensor is situated in front of the throttle body and not right after it when the air is going to be "burned" .... Of course : IRONICALLY QUESTION .... There must be a secret we don't know.
Greetings Mike
Greetings Mike
- Dec 4, 2011
- 568
I can't image there being much more than about 10F degrees difference between air temps before and after the TB. The TB itself is mounted to a plastic intake piece, so you will not get much engine heat transmitted directly into the TB. Of course if you had a turbo, that transmits a significant amount of heat into the air, dwarfing any incidental heat the air might pick up from the engine bay.
I agree that it would be very interesting to make a graphical comparison of the actual airflow through the TB with various types on intake mods. Unfortunately I do not have any equipment which would make these measurements.
I agree that it would be very interesting to make a graphical comparison of the actual airflow through the TB with various types on intake mods. Unfortunately I do not have any equipment which would make these measurements.
blazinlow89
Member
- Jan 25, 2012
- 2,088
I call major BS on both videos. The point of doing any comparison test to make it real world applicable is to match the variables as closely as possible, things like relative humidity, temperature, engine temperature and filter placement. Running just the aftermarket filter attached to the throttle body is dumb. If they had actually used tubing and placed the filter near the stock location I can guarantee the results would be different. Dyno testing also leaves out a huge variable when doing testing and I have ran into this problem when dyno tuning boosted vehicles A/A intercoolers. You are leaving out the moving air which helps play a roll in reducing under hood temperatures as well as the temperature of the air getting sucked into the engine. Same issue with the intercoolers, they are losing a huge amount of efficiency when there is no air moving across the face of the intercooler, this results in higher air temperature which can alter the amount of power going to the ground.
The second video is more evidence of a lack of control in the experiment. A true cold air intake locates the air filter outside of or as far away from the engine area as possible and generally in a location where it can benefit from fresh air moving across the filter to offer lower temperature air. The filter design also has a huge part in what gains can be made. I bought a weapon-r cold air intake for my old Corolla (young kid), the filter was a 2 part foam filter the top section had a frame which contained the filter itself. The bottom half contained a molded plastic velute which allowed the air to speed up across the rounded edge of the filter. I used the filter on my 91 Regal, used a modified aluminum tube from a Civic and mounted that to the MAF sensor. The filter had no cover and was in the same location as the factory airbox about 10" from the forward facing exhaust manifold. It added a noticeable amount of throttle response and helped with the lag of the aging engine. One day after driving home from work I popped the hood to check trans fluid levels etc, the tube leading to the MAF on was cold, and I mean it registered 40*F on an infrared thermometer. Air temperature outside was 96*F, exhaust manifold temp read well over 200* and other areas of the engine bay read between 120*-180* depending on location.
Intake material has a huge play in allowing the engine to breath easier. Give this a try use a piece of paper (like stock filter use) and see how long you can breathe through it, then use a cotton shirt, or mesh if you have and do the same. While allowing larger particles to pass through (not of major significance) the mesh cotton filters allows much more air to enter the engine easier than with the old paper ones. On another note, you can save money with the reusable filters as well. Say you change the filter every 10-20k miles, at $15 a filter that around $60-$150 over 100k miles. With the reusable filter you can pick up a new K&N and a cleaning kit for between $50 and $100. I clean my filter every other oil change 20k miles and I have had it since around 60k miles on the truck, I paid $65 for the filter and the cleaning kit. The new green filters, or the new oiless ones look like a better investment.
Shdwdrgn, the elimination of ripples in the intake tube would not a be a huge determining factor in helping the engine achieve and easier amount of vacuum pull. You have other things that can result in much larger gains such as port and polishing the head, and polishing the casting flash off of the intake and exhaust entrances of the head. I will not say the intake mod helps tremendously, with a proper tune I think we could see some decent gains.
The second video is more evidence of a lack of control in the experiment. A true cold air intake locates the air filter outside of or as far away from the engine area as possible and generally in a location where it can benefit from fresh air moving across the filter to offer lower temperature air. The filter design also has a huge part in what gains can be made. I bought a weapon-r cold air intake for my old Corolla (young kid), the filter was a 2 part foam filter the top section had a frame which contained the filter itself. The bottom half contained a molded plastic velute which allowed the air to speed up across the rounded edge of the filter. I used the filter on my 91 Regal, used a modified aluminum tube from a Civic and mounted that to the MAF sensor. The filter had no cover and was in the same location as the factory airbox about 10" from the forward facing exhaust manifold. It added a noticeable amount of throttle response and helped with the lag of the aging engine. One day after driving home from work I popped the hood to check trans fluid levels etc, the tube leading to the MAF on was cold, and I mean it registered 40*F on an infrared thermometer. Air temperature outside was 96*F, exhaust manifold temp read well over 200* and other areas of the engine bay read between 120*-180* depending on location.
Intake material has a huge play in allowing the engine to breath easier. Give this a try use a piece of paper (like stock filter use) and see how long you can breathe through it, then use a cotton shirt, or mesh if you have and do the same. While allowing larger particles to pass through (not of major significance) the mesh cotton filters allows much more air to enter the engine easier than with the old paper ones. On another note, you can save money with the reusable filters as well. Say you change the filter every 10-20k miles, at $15 a filter that around $60-$150 over 100k miles. With the reusable filter you can pick up a new K&N and a cleaning kit for between $50 and $100. I clean my filter every other oil change 20k miles and I have had it since around 60k miles on the truck, I paid $65 for the filter and the cleaning kit. The new green filters, or the new oiless ones look like a better investment.
Shdwdrgn, the elimination of ripples in the intake tube would not a be a huge determining factor in helping the engine achieve and easier amount of vacuum pull. You have other things that can result in much larger gains such as port and polishing the head, and polishing the casting flash off of the intake and exhaust entrances of the head. I will not say the intake mod helps tremendously, with a proper tune I think we could see some decent gains.
Guys .... if you believe in a CAI system or something like that, why you are so stuck of trying to find the best place catching fresh and cold air right from the front and transfer it through the whole engine area with your TB !!?? May you start to think about to change the system away from the stock idea ....
What about this idea....... ????
Cut something out from the top of the hood, right above the TB and install a scoop on it. Take a K&N panel air filter and find an air reservoir where it fits in and connect it with the hood .... Cut a hole on the bottom of the reservoir and put a air duct in the size of the TB in it. Connect the duct with the TB via short tube and install the IAT/MAF sensor in the tube. It should fit from the height above the TB.
Possible advantages :
1. you get the full air restricted from the size of the scoop entry only
2. very short way of air flow to the TB and no the chance to adjust to the temps in the engine area
3. getting a lot of space in the stock installation area of the filter & box
4. you need just a small panel filter in the size of the tube diameter instead of this huge stock filter size or POD's .... etc etc
Just think about ....
Greetings Mike
What about this idea....... ????
Cut something out from the top of the hood, right above the TB and install a scoop on it. Take a K&N panel air filter and find an air reservoir where it fits in and connect it with the hood .... Cut a hole on the bottom of the reservoir and put a air duct in the size of the TB in it. Connect the duct with the TB via short tube and install the IAT/MAF sensor in the tube. It should fit from the height above the TB.
Possible advantages :
1. you get the full air restricted from the size of the scoop entry only
2. very short way of air flow to the TB and no the chance to adjust to the temps in the engine area
3. getting a lot of space in the stock installation area of the filter & box
4. you need just a small panel filter in the size of the tube diameter instead of this huge stock filter size or POD's .... etc etc
Just think about ....
Greetings Mike
You may got it wrong, but it is fine ... It was just a short explanation how to get "real" cold air compared to these offered CAI systems with the stock design. You can not expect to get the optimum in keeping stock design, which of course is always a compromise between style, functionality and price. But I see there is a deep faith in something without open minds. You just need a hole in the diameter size of the tube and a very very small panel air filter. Btw I found your comment useless ..... So I am out of this.
Good luck for upcoming experiments in the future ....
Good luck for upcoming experiments in the future ....
- Dec 4, 2011
- 568
I've only seen a couple people here who have installed a hood with scoops... otherwise I agree - most people are not going to cut holes in their hoods. As I said before, an IAT and MAF are two completely different types of sensors. This idea would work with an IAT, but is completely impractical with a MAF sensor. Also, where do you get the idea that you only need a hole the size of the intake (3") for the air filter? You can't just slap a 3" panel filter on the end of the hose and expect it to work. You would be suffocating your engine horribly with such a small filter because the filter is a restriction in the line. You would need a panel filter around 8" square to match the area of intake in the stock cylindrical filter, and nobody wants that big of a hole in their hood. Besides, what would you do when it rains?
You seem to be completely missing the point of what is going on here. I've made a smoother intake to reduce turbulence leading in to the engine, and my CAI mod has doubled the volume of air that can come in to the airbox. This translates into less work for the engine, without changing the stock appearance of the vehicle or requiring radical changes like cutting body panels or reprogramming the computer. If you want to spend hundreds of dollars to screw up your truck, go for it. For $25, I can get the same power gains.
You seem to be completely missing the point of what is going on here. I've made a smoother intake to reduce turbulence leading in to the engine, and my CAI mod has doubled the volume of air that can come in to the airbox. This translates into less work for the engine, without changing the stock appearance of the vehicle or requiring radical changes like cutting body panels or reprogramming the computer. If you want to spend hundreds of dollars to screw up your truck, go for it. For $25, I can get the same power gains.
As I said before ... you both didn't get the setup. Rain is no more issue than in stock. Good night.
blazinlow89
Member
- Jan 25, 2012
- 2,088
The main point behind doing our own over buying aftermarket is mainly cost. The second thing that is trying to be accomplished is eliminating that resonator, the factory tubing and to create something that while will not provide substantial gains helps the engine to breathe easier and help increase response when needed. While getting the coolest air to the intake is ideal, there are alot of things that can lead up to a very bad day. Alot of the Honda CAI setups put the filter in the area between the bumper and inner fender liner. While a decent spot to grab cooler air, it is not good when you drive a low vehicle with the intake so close to the ground. I have seen a few hydrolocked engines when someone submerged the filter is a big puddle. Simple solution is a bypass filter that sucks air from closer to the throttle body in the case of submerged filter.
There are many ideas that will work. Keep in mind alot of the people who have done this mod have also gutted the factory airbox cover and cut a hole into the front. This could be more beneficial with those who have done an SS grill swap. My currently grill has the holes for the headlight washer, its a small square hole about 1 1/4 x 1 1/4. The inside of the headlight also has a small hole from the factory. This hole can be opened up to allow more air flow directly to the hole in the airbox cover. This provides a decent amount of fresh air directly to the filter. With the current air temps between 40-45* during the day at idle sitting still for 2-3 minutes the IAT has been reading between 75-90*. With movement at around 50-60 MPH I have seen as low as 42* while cruising. My IAT sensor is about 8" from the throttle body, and about 18" from the filter.
There are many ideas that will work. Keep in mind alot of the people who have done this mod have also gutted the factory airbox cover and cut a hole into the front. This could be more beneficial with those who have done an SS grill swap. My currently grill has the holes for the headlight washer, its a small square hole about 1 1/4 x 1 1/4. The inside of the headlight also has a small hole from the factory. This hole can be opened up to allow more air flow directly to the hole in the airbox cover. This provides a decent amount of fresh air directly to the filter. With the current air temps between 40-45* during the day at idle sitting still for 2-3 minutes the IAT has been reading between 75-90*. With movement at around 50-60 MPH I have seen as low as 42* while cruising. My IAT sensor is about 8" from the throttle body, and about 18" from the filter.
It doesn't matter from where it is coming, because the filter has to take the air just from the perpendicularly (right angle) to work properly and to let the right amount of air through it ..... So with all these super CAI without any well designed air boxes and well fitting filters, you can "smooth" the way in any way and it will not help. The Original setup were just made for sound issues, emission issues and dirt edge ... When you will get it ? Damn that sucks if people are just believing in advertising and marketing stuff and do not thinking behind the "public" sh....
blazinlow89
Member
- Jan 25, 2012
- 2,088
gboos said:
How are people stuck believing in advertising and marketing when we are not buying the product. We are manufacturing (rather Mcguyvering) our own setup. I agree that most companies use a basic concept for all vehicles with out alot of variation, they list power gains of 15hp but only at 5600 rpm, and only if the air temperature is 42* with a full moon (sarcasm). Like I have stated before smoothing out airflow from the intake tubing will net nothing, air still has the obstacle course of valves, bends, intake runners, factory cast flashing, and rough edges before it enters the cylinder. Same as the airaid throttle body spacers, they may have helped with carbs, but with new engines they do nothing, just a shiny piece of anodized aluminum. What are you talking about "well fitting filters", the pipe I use has and ID of 3" with an OD of 3.25". I ordered my filter as a 8"x4" with 3.25" ID, which fits snugly around the piping.
The point either of us is trying to make is that we made our adaptations, as others before us have. I utilized the stock airbox to allow for as much heat shielding as possible. I use 1/8" thick PVC pipe rather than aluminum as it does not conduct and hold heat as well, it also acts as a thermal insulator to keep the cool air separate from the warm air. These are little ways that we improve our vehicles for ourselves, and we save money doing it. One thing I am sure we can agree on is that it should not be marketed as a cold air intake, much rather a cool/ambient air temperature intake.
- Dec 4, 2011
- 568
blazinlow89 said:
Do you think there's any noticeable difference between using the 1/8" wall and 1/4" wall PVC pipe, with regards to heat? I had considered using the thinwall while building my latest intake, since it would provide a little extra ID for top-end airflow. It seems like the thinner pipe would sluff off heat faster, but the thickwall pipe would provide better insulation, so I couldn't see any clear benefit of one over the other.
blazinlow89
Member
- Jan 25, 2012
- 2,088
Shdwdrgn said:
I take that back, my first attempt (never made it to the truck) was 1/8". The latest one 1/4" conduit pipe, I made it last year and remember I had to order a new air filter with a 3.5" OD, 3" ID piping.
I went with the thinner stuff originally so I could heat and bend the pipe, which did not end well even with a tip from a user on the OS to fill the pipe with sand and cap both ends and heat it in the oven (could not do this living at home, my mother would have kicked my ass if I baked PVC and sand in the oven). A trip to the electrical section in netted the 60* conduit which gives and almost perfect bend. I did it right this time and have had no issues with heat, I also used 1/4" NPT and plastic barbs to connect hoses etc, then put JB weld around the barbs. No signs of heat failure and I made a nifty cover our of the resonator box.
If you want no warmed up air between your IAT and the intake valve just use a carbon tube and a carbon manifold after the TB. Carbon is the best material for heat resistance. But that's a money decision. 
blazinlow89
Member
- Jan 25, 2012
- 2,088
No no .... I just love to make comments with some humor about senseless modifications and money wised decisions. Keep going, it is nice to read about it. Always. We Germans are like that and it is nothing against any person here.
Metalsmith
Member
- Dec 23, 2012
- 13
I can remember when I was stationed in Kirsch-Goens, every time my Vega GT, running a modified 327, out of a Opel Commador, would dust a Porsch (sp), there was always critique of the modifications.......then an offer to buy ... ....finally sold it for $40,00 US ... :wootwoot: ... in 76, that was a chunk of change..... I haven't started on the TB , but I think I can make a difference... ; )))))
....finally sold it for $40,00 US ... :wootwoot: ... in 76, that was a chunk of change..... I haven't started on the TB , but I think I can make a difference... ; )))))
groundshock
Member
- Dec 4, 2011
- 248
Just a bit of an update here. I see the thread really got off track, but hey, that's why we're here.
Outside of debating whether or not these things actually do anything power-wise, all I really cared about was the sucky-sucky intake noise. Yeah, rice. I know.
I've been running my version of this writeup for quite some time now, and honestly, I love it. No ill effects, looks great the way i made it, and sounds awesome.
Take it FWIW, I'm happy and I thank the OP for the write-up.
Pics of mine:
Outside of debating whether or not these things actually do anything power-wise, all I really cared about was the sucky-sucky intake noise. Yeah, rice. I know.
I've been running my version of this writeup for quite some time now, and honestly, I love it. No ill effects, looks great the way i made it, and sounds awesome.
Take it FWIW, I'm happy and I thank the OP for the write-up.
Pics of mine:
groundshock
Member
- Dec 4, 2011
- 248
Shdwdrgn said:
Thanks man. It's nice that the Victory Red that GM loves so much is readily available. It's just duplicolor bomb can and clear. I've been considering finding a used 4.2 valve cover and going with a wrinkle red on that too, as you can see I have a slight VC leak that I need to fix. I think that'd be just the ticket for 'just enough' underhood pop.
As much as I intend on making this a trail rig, it's going to be a pretty one. I just can't get over DAT RED.
From a buried post in the OS.
Maybe combine a baffle like this with a sleek tube to get cooler air and intake sound?
tblazed said:I made a "baffle" from 1/2" rubberized PVC foam to block off the engine bay heat and get intake air from around the headlight. Works great!
Cardboard template
Installed. This goes up and touches the back of the radiator support, all the way down to the frame. 2003+ without the top rad support molding would need to extend it across the top of the air filter box to seal the top.
Before mod IAT. Temps continues to rise upwards of 150°F
After mod IAT. Temp stabilizes abouit 10°F over ambient temp
Maybe combine a baffle like this with a sleek tube to get cooler air and intake sound?
