Different Parts - Weird

Gary M

Original poster
Member
Jul 12, 2012
20
I'm looking at Crankshaft Position Sensors and there are tons out there.

Rockauto has a bunch ranging in price from ~$30 through ~$50

Other places have similar prices, same parts. I checked ebay on a whim and came across a Standard Auto PC134 for $14, with cheap shipping (ordering from other places pretty much doubles the priced to ship to Canada).

What's weird is that if I search for the sensor based on my vehicle (2005 Envoy SLT) I get the usual hits, but when I search for PC134 I get application tables saying that it's OE replacement for my truck.

Summit Racing offers 2 Standard Auto sensors for the Envoy SLT, and I don't think they even look the same:

Standard Motor Products PC134 - Standard Motor Crankshaft Position Sensors - Overview - SummitRacing.com

Standard Motor Products PC278 - Standard Motor Crankshaft Position Sensors - Overview - SummitRacing.com

According to the make/model parts search, they're both suitable for my Envoy.

Can anybody out there help me make sense of this?

Thanks,

Cheers!

Gary
 

gmac310

Member
Dec 4, 2011
174
If you read the pages more closely, you'll see that one is a CRANKSHAFT position sensor and the other is a CAMSHAFT position sensor. If you're looking for the one that's mounted on top of the engine then that's PC278.
 

MacMan

Member
Mar 3, 2012
194
One is for the I6, and the other is for the V8. Read the "applications" more closely.
 

MAY03LT

Member
Nov 18, 2011
3,420
Delmarva
Do you have the I6 engine? Rockauto has the ACDELCO Part # 213970 on closeout for under $5.00. I'd be all over that if it fit my 03.

Also worth mentioning, the truck will have to have the crank sensor relearn procedure done after the replacement.
 

Gary M

Original poster
Member
Jul 12, 2012
20
MacMan said:
One is for the I6, and the other is for the V8. Read the "applications" more closely.

Ahhh.... Had a good look and that's it. I was confused because some sites (I checked a zillion of them today) showed this as an OE replacement part for the 2005 SLT - no V8 was available in that truck. There's some misinformation out there.

OK, so, PC134 is ~$100 at a Canadian parts store, ~$30 (+$25 shipping) online from the 'States, and ~$13 (+$12 shipping) on ebay: Guess where I'm going :wink:

Thanks a billion for the clarification,

Cheers!

Gary
 

Gary M

Original poster
Member
Jul 12, 2012
20
MAY03LT said:
. Rockauto has the ACDELCO Part # 213970 on closeout for under $5.00.

SHAZAM!

$4.77 Canadian - I just ordered it.

The $30 shipping for that part is RIDICULOUS, but it still comes it at under $35, which is the combined ebay price for the Standard (cheap) part.

Should be here before the weekend.

Thanks for the awesome tip!

Chers!

Gary
 

Gary M

Original poster
Member
Jul 12, 2012
20
MAY03LT said:
WOW....that is unreal:eek::hissyfit:

Yup, and I live in Ottawa, the capital city of Canada (our equivalent to Washington DC) - so it's not like I'm out in the boonies where delivery could be expected to cost a bit.

Had a choice of $25 for UPS/FEDEX ground or $30 for USPS (US Mail) - opted for the mail so I don't have to be home to sign for it.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Cheers!

Gary
 

Wooluf1952

Member
Nov 20, 2011
2,663
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
MAY03LT said:
Do you have the I6 engine? Rockauto has the ACDELCO Part # 213970 on closeout for under $5.00. I'd be all over that if it fit my 03.

Also worth mentioning, the truck will have to have the crank sensor relearn procedure done after the replacement.

:confused: That's the part number that's listed for my 2003 Envoy I6.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,344
Ottawa, ON
Hey Gary, have you looked into getting it shipped to the UPS store in Ogdensburg? When you order, you have it shipped there and they hold it for $5 per package. At the price it costs for the shipping to Canada, you could drive down there, get the packages, fill the tank with cheap gas and do some groceries. I've done it a dozen times so far saving a ton of money. I usually make several orders to make it even more worthwhile. Also useful for sellers that don't ship to Canada at all.

Welcome To Track Ogdensburg - Tracking Your Parcels @ The UPS Store in Ogdensburg, NY
 

Gary M

Original poster
Member
Jul 12, 2012
20
Mooseman said:
Hey Gary, have you looked into getting it shipped to the UPS store in Ogdensburg?

Heya Brother! I recognize your handle from the other site.

I hadn't thought of that option, but will definitely look into it.

Ummmm, you know I drive an Envoy, right? (grin) At 18L/100km are you SURE it's cost-effective to drive there? Seems like an easy half-tank to me, which is about $50 these days... Maybe once I get this timing problem licked my mileage will improve...

:deadhorse:

... or not

My current boss (a USAF Lt Col) is from Pittsburgh and goes home to visit once in a while. One thing I have thought of is having a shopping list of parts sent to his place in PA for him to get back. Only problem is that I never know what's going to break next on this lemon (grin).

Maybe we Ottawa GM owners should coordinate our parts buys so we can carpool down and share expenses, have a malt beverage or two, etc. I'm told that there's a tire store in the Ogdensburg area that rocks good deals all the time.

Cheers!
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,344
Ottawa, ON
Gary M said:
Heya Brother! I recognize your handle from the other site.

I hadn't thought of that option, but will definitely look into it.

Ummmm, you know I drive an Envoy, right? (grin) At 18L/100km are you SURE it's cost-effective to drive there? Seems like an easy half-tank to me, which is about $50 these days... Maybe once I get this timing problem licked my mileage will improve...

Depends on where in Ottawa you are. I'm in the south end (Greely) so it's just hwy 416 all the way down there. And the cheaper US gas makes up for it. I usually wait until I order several things before going down there. I just came back last month with an evaporator, receiver/dryer, shocks/struts, bushings, thermostat and sensor so I'm good for a while.

I barely use a quarter tank for that trip. What kind of timing problem are you getting? Any codes? I had a persistent P1345 which was caused by a wonky camshaft advance phaser (not the CPAS but the one on the camshaft gear itself). Also, my previously bad mileage was caused by a plugged cat.
 

Gary M

Original poster
Member
Jul 12, 2012
20
Mooseman said:
What kind of timing problem are you getting? Any codes?

Heya,

I had P0134 for a while, but I think that had something to do with me smashing the crap out of the O2 sensor when I swapped exhaust manifolds... heh heh

I had intermittent cam/crank correlation codes that got worse with time (along with the associated work/no-work of the cruise control). I changed both the cam position sensor and cam position solenoid actuator, expecting that would fix the problem but it actually got worse.

I now have persistent P0017 and an intermittent P0014.

The "worse" part after the CPAS swap is that now the timing is definitely retarded: rough idle (shakes like an old muscle car with cam lobes as big as your head), low, eratic RPM at idle, and is a dog (an old, slow, 3-legged dog) when accelerating... seems about 3/4 of the throttle range is dead, but it accelerates normally when I mat the pedal. This tells me that the exhaust valves are still open on the intake stroke (I think). Of note, the super-rough idle isn't constant, which leads me to belive that it's not a mechanical problem (e.g. timing chain), which should be a constant problem (again, I think). I suspect that the problem got worse because the old CPAS was seized, and therefore not retarding the timing on command; the new CPAS is doing what it's told to do by the computer, but the crank angle signal is out of whack.

My mecanical knowledge was, unfortunately, gained in the 70's when there was lots of room to work under the hood, the only hoses were vacuum lines, only 6 or so wires were required, and pollution control meant that you didn't fart with the windows up... Oh, and when we wore coveralls to work, as opposed to today's lab-coat wearing technicians :wink: ... What this means is that my diagnostic abilities are severely limited: What is *obviously* not mechanical in my experience just might be with today's technology... Maybe variable valve timing can mask a bad timing chain... stuff like that.

Wow, that was a lot of babble :crazy:

Executive summary:

- new CPS & CPAS
- intermittent slow/rough idle (slow/rough ~30% of the time, has stalled only once, over a month ago)
- poor acceleration, especially at speed (e.g. passing on the highway) unless wide-open.
- got worse (more frequent (less intermittent)) with time
- persistent P0017, accompanied by intermittent P0014


I drove around a bunch yesterday and kept resetting the codes. P0017 immediately comes back as pending and is a hard code on next restart.

So, whadaya think?

Cheers!

Gary
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,344
Ottawa, ON
Hey Gary, sure sounds like the actuator itself is pooched. It's #12 in the attached pic, part number 19179010. If you read up in the manual on how to do it, it looks like a scary job but isn't that bad. Took me just an afternoon to do it and I have the special chain holding tools to do it too. After I did it, no more codes and power and mileage came up.

DO NOT BUY IT FROM A CANADIAN DEALER! They want $350 for it. In the US, they are going for $99~114 + shipping + $100 deposit core charge that you get back when you return your old one. GMPartsDirect are the most popular and cheapest but don't take Canadian credit cards. I found 2002 Chevrolet Trailblazer ENGINE Camshaft & timing Variable valve timing GmPartsShop.com . They're a dealer in Phoenix AZ that you can actually call. They did take a while to get the actuator as they didn't stock it and there was a delay for the core refund but called them up and fixed the issues quickly. You can also check to see the difference between shipping to Ottawa and Ogdensburg, which might be worth it if you order other stuff like the gaskets you'll need for this job and maybe other stuff :biggrin:. The gaskets are a little cheaper at RockAuto but with shipping, it may be just worth it to get them from GMPartsShop. And if you do ship the whole thing to O'burg, the shipping is $32 instead of $61 to Canada.

I argued with the parts guy at Surgenor's that I could get that same part for a third of their price from the US. He kept saying that it was a cheap knockoff. Uh, hello? You can only get them from GM since they are rebuilt by Delphi.

Edit: Dammit. I just noticed your year. It's a different part number. The actuator for the 2005 is 12569502 and it's $128 at GMPartsShop. For whatever reason, it didn't show that part but found the part number at http://parts.nalleygmc.com/ and searched for for it at GMPartsShop.
 

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Gary M

Original poster
Member
Jul 12, 2012
20
Mooseman said:
Hey Gary, sure sounds like the actuator itself is pooched.

My Brother, I did NOT want to hear you say that! :wink:

Mooseman said:
DO NOT BUY IT FROM A CANADIAN DEALER! They want $350 for it. In the US, they are going for $99~114 + shipping + $100 deposit core charge that you get back when you return your old one.

Yup, currently $111 at gmpartsdirect, and it looks like there's no core charge now

Mooseman said:
I argued with the parts guy at Surgenor's that I could get that same part for a third of their price from the US. He kept saying that it was a cheap knockoff. Uh, hello? You can only get them from GM since they are rebuilt by Delphi.

I called 2 GM dealers here, along with parts stores, about the 3 sensors I ordered from the 'States - got the same bullshit song and dance. I told the dude at GM Kanata that I COULD ORDER AC/DELCO PARTS at 1/3 to 1/5 the price and he still wouldn't give up on the "cheap Chinese knockoffs" mantra... and then he went into the "costs more to ship" crap. It's like they think we're stupid.

Cheers!

Gary
 

Gary M

Original poster
Member
Jul 12, 2012
20
Mooseman said:
Took me just an afternoon to do it and I have the special chain holding tools to do it too.

That looks a lot like an offer to help out, or at least loan me the chain tool :cool:

Cheers!

Gary
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,344
Ottawa, ON
I don't mind loaning the tools. As for helping out, depends on when. I'm just swamped all the time these days, apart from my own repairs to the MooseMobile. I haven't stopped fixing the damn thing since I bought it last year. Pretty soon I'll have a new truck, one part at a time :mad:. When you're ready, let me know and we'll see what my schedule looks like.

For sensors, recommend that you stick with ACDelco. These trucks seems to be picky on which parts to use :crazy:. As for the core charge, you would see it during the checkout. I think it's even in the description.
 

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