NEED HELP 5.3 vortec long crank

mrrsm

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AHhh... Now you've touched upon something that can be so obscure as to be missed by the Best of Mechanics when you mentioned...

"Trucks been off the road since November and had to purchase another daily driver, and couldn't get much work done due to a particularly cold New England winter."

Unless you have already considered this as a possibility and gone over the engine nacelle with a Bright Flashlight while wearing M11 Nitrile Gloves, Clear wrap-around Eye Protection and a well fitting N-95 Mask... consider that those conditions may prove to be attracting the North American Deer Mouse (and its ilk) to find hidden nesting and breeding areas under the hood and around the various "cubbies" that these Vermin will use to hide from the winter time cold ...and predators.

As with all rodents, these animals bear ever-growing incisor teeth that require constant gnawing to wear them down. They are particularly enamored of Chewing and Gnawing on Plastic Connectors and Sheathing, Wire Insulation and the Copper beneath it and they will often pull down the Under-Hood Liners for the purposes of creating Nests.

These may be obvious on plain site to include Pine Needles, Animal Fur, Chicken Bones, Feces, Saliva and Desiccated Urine... or they may be found hidden inside of Black Plastic Battery and Fuse Boxes and under Air Ducting, etc. as these images prove:

Images come courtesy @christo829 ...

IMG_20200208_135901440.jpgIMG_20200208_140636317_HDR.jpgIMG_20200208_140734498_HDR.jpgIMG_20200208_140623372_HDR.jpg

The latter three mentioned above may carry and harbor the Dreaded Hanta Virus if accidentally inhaled. Though airborne transmission by friable Viral Particle Loaded Dust is rare... if the *Bug* gets into your Eyes, Nose, Throat and Lungs or even cuts and wounds... it Kills 40% of the people who do so and get infected from what is coined by the CDC as HPS (Hanta-Virus Pulmonary Syndrome):

HANTAVIRUSHEADLINES11.jpg

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=cdc+hanta&atb=v445-1&ia=web

Down here in Florida...we also have the Hispid Cotton Rat as the vector of Hanta and what is known as "The Black Creek Canal Disease":


So Please... Be Aware of this situation before You visit their "lair" ...unprepared... and start rustling around the Harnesses, Electrical Module Connectors and roust about any Dried Feces, Saliva and Urine into the air confined under the hood. Use a Wet Cloths soaked in Warm Water and Bleach to wipe down and clean up after these Critters and dispose of the Nesting Trash and Wipes inside of Zip-Lock Baggies. Do not use *Canned Air* or Compressed Air as this will agitate the infected materials and make them Airborne.

PS... A Mouse can Smell and Find a 10 Year Old Dried Out McDonald's French Fry through Three Feet of Cold-Rolled Steel...or the Crack of the Back Seat and Under the Hood, too.

Mechanics should ALWAYS Wash Their Hands of Food Grease and Organic Oils prior to working Under The Hood... else they will wind up coating all of the Wiring and Connectors they Handle with all of those Attractive Smells... and perhaps Doom the Truck Owner to having problems like "Sketchy Starts and Misfires" thereafter once the Mice have managed to Chew It All Up in the offing.


These PDF Articles will also prove very edifying:
 

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Kgurn1020

Original poster
Member
Mar 2, 2023
53
Massachusetts
AHhh... Now you've touched upon something that can be so obscure as to be missed by the Best of Mechanics when you mentioned...

"Trucks been off the road since November and had to purchase another daily driver, and couldn't get much work done due to a particularly cold New England winter."

Unless you have already considered this as a possibility and gone over the engine nacelle with a Bright Flashlight while wearing M11 Nitrile Gloves, Clear wrap-around Eye Protection and a well fitting N-95 Mask... consider that those conditions may prove to be attracting the North American Deer Mouse (and its ilk) to find hidden nesting and breeding areas under the hood and around the various "cubbies" that these Vermin will use to hide from the winter time cold ...and predators.

As with all rodents, these animals bear ever-growing incisor teeth that require constant gnawing to wear them down. They are particularly enamored of Chewing and Gnawing on Plastic Connectors and Sheathing, Wire Insulation and the Copper beneath it and they will often pull down the Under-Hood Liners for the purposes of creating Nests.

These may be obvious on plain site to include Pine Needles, Animal Fur, Chicken Bones, Feces, Saliva and Desiccated Urine... or they may be found hidden inside of Black Plastic Battery and Fuse Boxes and under Air Ducting, etc. as these images prove:

Images come courtesy @christo829 ...

View attachment 116500View attachment 116504View attachment 116505View attachment 116503

The latter three mentioned above may carry and harbor the Dreaded Hanta Virus if accidentally inhaled. Though airborne transmission by friable Viral Particle Loaded Dust is rare... if the *Bug* gets int your Eyes, Nose, Throat and Lungs... it Kills 40% of the people who do so from what is coined by the CDC as HPS (Hanta Virus Pulmonary Syndrome):

View attachment 116501

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=cdc+hanta&atb=v445-1&ia=web

Down here in Florida...we also have the Hispid Cotton Rat as the vector of Hanta and what is known as "The Black Creek Canal Disease":


So Please... Be Aware of this situation before You visit their "lair" ...unprepared... and start rustling around the Harnesses, Electrical Module Connectors and roust about any Dried Feces, Saliva and Urine into the air confined under the hood. Use a Wet Cloths soaked in Warm Water and Bleach to wipe down and clean up after these Critters and dispose of the Nesting Trash and Wipes inside of Zip-Lock Baggies. Do not use *Canned Air* or Compressed Air as this will agitate the infected materials and make them Airborne.

These PDF Articles will also prove very edifying:
I will definitely look into that. I've been in and out of that engine bay dozens of times and haven't seen many signs of rodent activity. But at this point anything could be the reason.
 
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Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
26,586
Ottawa, ON
Misfire once it's warm? I'd be looking at the coils. It could be failing and exhibits issues once hot. When you do get the misfire, check the codes for which cylinder does it and check the misfire counts for other cylinders that may also be misfiring. Once you know which one, swap the coil with another that didn't show any misfires. Another possibility is an injector doing the same thing. While you're in there swapping the coil, swap the same injector to a different cylinder. In other words, for example, if #1 is misfiring, swap the #1 coil with #2 and the #1 injector with #3. Where the misfire moves to, that's the defective part.
 
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Kgurn1020

Original poster
Member
Mar 2, 2023
53
Massachusetts
Misfire once it's warm? I'd be looking at the coils. It could be failing and exhibits issues once hot. When you do get the misfire, check the codes for which cylinder does it and check the misfire counts for other cylinders that may also be misfiring. Once you know which one, swap the coil with another that didn't show any misfires. Another possibility is an injector doing the same thing. While you're in there swapping the coil, swap the same injector to a different cylinder. In other words, for example, if #1 is misfiring, swap the #1 coil with #2 and the #1 injector with #3. Where the misfire moves to, that's the defective part.
One mechanic had said they already swapped and tested the coils, and I had installed new injectors and plugs/wires, all OEM. I don't notice a misfire, and the truck doesn't go into Limp mode. And the only code it is throwing is a P0300. Random cylinder misfire, so I believe it is something affecting all cylinders. Either spark, fuel, or air. The last mechanic I brought the truck to who is an expert with Chevy trucks said he didnt detect a misfire, and it also didn't do the long crank issue either, due to how random it is, so all he did was a full carbon cleaning via seafoam. I don't believe it misfires at idle or driving, only when it has an issue starting. Such a difficult problem to track.
 

TollKeeper

Supporting Donor
Member
Dec 3, 2011
8,371
Brighton, CO
The way you are describing it... I have to go in another direction.

Either you have a grounding issue, which is a very common problem on the 5.3/6.0, or you have a cracked trace in the fuse panel, which is not as common, but I have seen it.

You are in Mass? So you are in a rust/corrosion belt. The weaved metal ground straps are known to corrode out cause issues. If I am remembering correctly, you have one on the back of each head, and a few other places.

I think @Mooseman might be able to provide a bit better insight to this.



 
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Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
26,586
Ottawa, ON
I can't add to that however, as far as the ground locations, you can head over here to find them:

And definitely check the fuse box. I've seen some where they were corroded at the fuse connector and causing issues (in my case, the ABS). On the GMT360, we've seen broken traces cause stalling.

If you know someone with a capable scanner, you could get a CASE (Crankshaft Angle Sensor Error) relearn done as it is that sensor that reports misfires by the crank speed changes. Can't hurt. If you do decide to throw a crank sensor at it (shotgunning), you will need that relearn.

Another possibility, if it hasn't been looked at, is a failing PCM. It is, after all, 22 years old. While it's running and hot, try tapping it lightly with a screwdriver handle.

Since it is a very intermittent issue, it is just about the most difficult to resolve. You might have to wait until it becomes more consistent to be able to find the cause.
 
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oldfoggie

Member
Sep 20, 2022
9
Canada
2009 with same problem, cure: check fuel pump or fuel pump module fuse under the hood for bad connections in the fuse socket, replace the fuse even if it checks good. check fuel pump ground, mine is located under driver's side door on the backside of the wheel well. it was rusted up pretty good. and my favorite one : squirrels built nest in air box cutting off the air flow
 
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Kgurn1020

Original poster
Member
Mar 2, 2023
53
Massachusetts
Been a while, finally went out and bought a semi cheap diagnostic reader. I went into the individual cylinders and read the misfires. At idle, cylinder 1 didn't miss fire more than 3-4 times per cycle, cylinder 5 no more than 1-2 times per cycle. However, upon ignition, every cylinder began to misfire, some more than others, and after a few seconds begin to go back to zero. I will attach a video showing it.
 

mrrsm

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Oct 22, 2015
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If your New OBD2 Scan Tool registers a P0300 Code... Start suspecting Loose Fasteners around the perimeter of the Intake Manifold resulting in the introduction of unmetered - unregulated Air ...and tighten them all down to ONLY 89 Inch Pounds. Look around for other "Plug Ins" like the Brake Vacuum Line, etc., for the same issues.
 
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Kgurn1020

Original poster
Member
Mar 2, 2023
53
Massachusetts
If your New OBD2 Scan Tool registers a P0300 Code... Start suspecting Loose Fasteners around the perimeter of the Intake Manifold resulting in the introduction of unmetered - unregulated Air ...and tighten them all down to ONLY 89 Inch Pounds.
I will definitely check that, just replaced the MAF on Friday. Guy who owned it before put a K&N cold air intake and the hose never has seemed to fit correctly. Even after installing rubber seals on each end. However this problem appeared after that.
 
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Kgurn1020

Original poster
Member
Mar 2, 2023
53
Massachusetts
Here are the individual cylinders. First photo is at idle. The next series of photos is immediately after ignition. The first photo I didn't add the rest of the cylinders because they all read 0 after each cycle. The misfires only go as high as 10 after ignition
 

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mrrsm

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Yup... Your Reader is definitely picking up enough "Lean Mis-Fire Randomness" to suggest that somewhere in between... Air is *Sneaking* in past the the existing sensors. If there is an Air Inlet Temperature Sensor (IAT) positioned in FRONT of the possible Leak Point ... Or if there is a "Dirty MAF" which is very common with using Non-OEM Air Filtration Systems... THESE might just be doing it... and are certainly not the only ways this problem can occur.

Poorly installed Spark Plugs NOT "Torqued To Spec"...or of the incorrect "Species" of Plugs NOT listed as OEM (Chinese Knock-Offs?) can also evince this kind of stuff.

The Mass Air Flow Sensor (MAF) informs the PCM about how much Air passes through it by actually WEIGHING it... so if additional air is getting in past this point... The PCM can get very confused and NOT be able to adjust or reconcile these differences and perhaps try to *Fiddle* around with the EFI Sprays to try and compensate...all of which can contribute to Mis-Fire issues.

And speaking of EFIs... it is highly improbable that ALL Eight EFIs would go *T*ts Up* at the same time... but as @oldfoggie suggested... A Failing Fuel Pump with damaged Commutators not delivering consistent Fuel Pressure can do similar things to cause Random Mis-Fires ... especially with LONG Cranking Starts ...that seem to take forever to get things going.

Here are the differences between what a "Known GOOD Fuel Pump Wave Form" versus what a "Known BAD Fuel Pump Wave Form" look like on a Laptop using a PICO-Scope Oscilloscope and a Fuse Buddy Loop plugged into the Fuel Pump Fuse Slot in the Power Distribution Center along with using a Low AMP Clamp to pick up these Signals:

The "Known GOOD Fuel Pump Wave Form"

GOODKNOWNFUELPUMPWAVEFORM.jpg

The "Known BAD Fuel Pump Wave Form"

BADFUELPUMPWAVEFORM.jpg

A Side By Side Fuel Pump Wave Form Comparison:

BADVSGSOODFUELPUMPWAVRFORM.jpg

Note: Credit these Images via Screen Captures coming from Eric "O" from the SMA (South Main Auto) Youtube Channel
 
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Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
26,586
Ottawa, ON
What are the fuel trims like? If there's a vacuum or intake leak, the fuel trims would show high positive numbers (adding fuel) but this is only after it goes into closed loop since when it's warning up and in open loop, it ignores the trims and O2 sensors and essentially running rich until the O2 sensors are warm enough.
 

Kgurn1020

Original poster
Member
Mar 2, 2023
53
Massachusetts
What are the fuel trims like? If there's a vacuum or intake leak, the fuel trims would show high positive numbers (adding fuel) but this is only after it goes into closed loop since when it's warning up and in open loop, it ignores the trims and O2 sensors and essentially running rich until the O2 sensors are warm enough.
I have the long term and short term trims, looks low negatives
IMG_6561.jpeg
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
26,586
Ottawa, ON
Fuel trims look good so I don't think it's a vacuum or fuelling problem.

Your misfires remind of my TB. It also has misfires here and there. They have become better and won't throw a misfire code anymore since my thread. I suspect maybe the low compression on one cylinder may be responsible.

 

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