2011 Terrain codes; P228D, P0089, P0016, P0017

02Bravada

Active Member
#1
My wife's 2011 Terrain (2.4L) is suddenly running very rough. She said this all just started sitting at a stoplight on Friday. It's throwing codes: P228D, P0089, P0016, P0017. It is also showing Stabilitrack and reduced engine power messages. I've looked up all those codes and there is a ton of possible causes between them all.

I assume the P0016 and P0017 are popping up just because it's running rough and that the real culprit lies in the P228D and P0089 codes. Fuel pressure sensor maybe? I'm hoping someone can identify a common theme among all of them and help me narrow this down.

Any ideas?
 

m.mcmillen

Gold Supporter
#2
There is a recall on the 2010-2011 Terrains for the high pressure fuel pump. Maybe check and see if there are any open recalls. You can look it up here https://my.gm.com/recalls

I would clear out the codes and go for drive. Check the codes when the light comes back on and see what there is.
 
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02Bravada

Active Member
#3
Thanks. I enter our VIN and it says there are no recalls. And I cleared the codes, but they come back as soon as I start it up. I have a high fuel pressure sensor on order, hopefully that does the trick.

Maybe someone with access to TSB's can see if there is mention of this issue?
 
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02Bravada

Active Member
#4
...and now I took it for a quick drive to get a feel for if the wife could drive it to work tomorrow. Made it about a half mile and it died. Couldn't restart it. It wouldn't even turn over. Not sure what to make of that. Computer shutting it down to stop possible engine damage?
 

m.mcmillen

Gold Supporter
#5
That I'm aware of, there are no "failsafes" in those vehicles. Does it have oil in it? This is kind of a worst case scenario but, those are known to burn a lot of oil and the reason for the recall on the fuel pump was because it was leaking gas into the engine. Maybe the gas has diluted the oil and it was low already which doesn't mix well. Maybe the engine has seized up? Maybe try and turn it over by hand with a socket on the harmonic balancer bolt.

Hopefully this isn't the case.
 

m.mcmillen

Gold Supporter
#6
I did some checking around and it looks like the high pressure fuel pump (this is a direct injected engine) is timed and if the timing is off then you can get high pressure codes.

It kind of sounds like that since you have the P0016 and P0017 codes as well that something has gone wrong with your timing chain.
 
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02Bravada

Active Member
#7
I let it sit for an hour after towing it home and it started right up. Weird. And yep, it has oil. In fact I just changed the oil yesterday.

That's interesting about the timed fuel pump. The timing being off would likely explain all the codes, wouldn't it? I found a post on a different site where someone had the exact same four codes after swapping engines. Thinking it couldn't be the solution, I didn't read how it ended up...I'll have to go back and read that now.

I've never had to do anything -in any vehicle- with timing before. This will be a learning experience. Hopefully it's not too difficult.

Is it common -or even likely- that the timing could be thrown off? The wife swears it was running fine and all of a sudden; wham...it's running rough and the service engine light comes on.

And thanks a bunch for the help, m.mcmillen. I really appreciate it. There are good people on this site. I've gotten valuable help here in the past, and the help continues. Thanks!
 
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m.mcmillen

Gold Supporter
#8
I saw a TSB on another site and it was talking about how when they would do a warranty engine replacement on the 2010 cars that they didn't have any and that GM was sending 2011 engines. If they were doing that swap, they had to swap the cam actuator from the old engine. If the wrong one is used, there will be fuel pressure codes because it changes the timing of the fuel pump.

Here's a link to the TSB.

https://f01.justanswer.com/JFN1/8e5a5dc8-251d-44a9-a237-c8be41ff91a4_Terrain.pdf
 
OP
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#9
Update; changed the crankshaft position sensor. No help. So now I am in the middle of changing the high fuel pressure sensor. I ohmed out the old and new sensors and they were the same, but maybe that isn't a valid way to check it...

The new one is in and I'm about ready to put it back together. Any have and suggestions for other things I should look at as long as I have the intake off?
 

Eric04

Silver Supporter
#10
Although I am hoping your efforts will discover another culprit, it is likely you'll end up at the timing chain. There were about 3 years of both the 2.4 and 3.6 being produced with substandard chain guides, and 2011 is one of those years. The guides degrade, allowing slack in the chain and boom, it jumps a tooth and/or starts chattering.

The good news is the repair was/is so common that there are many YouTube vids and other reference material to be had with a basic Google search. Also the 2.4 timing chain/guides can be replaced in vehicle while the 3.6 really has to be pulled out to do the job.

Again, I hope your situation works out differently. But people on various forums with models made from 2009-2012 were doing the chains at around 100K as a preemptive measure.
 
OP
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#11
Eric,

That's VERY interesting and useful info. I was unaware of the timing chain issue. And it would certainly explain the codes.

Since this has 106K miles on it, and as long as I'm in "mechanic mode" I better check it out. Thanks for the heads up.
 

MRRSM

Lifetime VIP Supporter
#12
As per @Eric04 's information...

I'm very sorry to suggest that the P0016 and P0017 are not secondary codes that are being triggered by something else as the causal events in the rough idling or performance of your vehicle... but rather are CENTRAL to the issue of what is actually going wrong inside of your 2.4L Ecotec Engine.

If the Engine sputters and shudders and is making noises under the front of the Valve Cover... it may be having Timing Misalignment events that are sufficiently out of OEM Spec to cause the correlation between the Crankshaft and the Dual Overhead Intake and Exhaust Camshafts to fail. An inoperative Timing Chain Tensioner or Broken Timing Chain Plastic or Nylon Chain Guides will often presage the Poor Performance issues in these engines display.

Even though these videos involve other styles and types of vehicles... the 2.4L Ecotec Engine Platform shared by them all will accurately describe what may be happening inside of your Engine. Unfortunately... if your own diagnosis proves this problem to be true... the solution to this matter will be a fairly involved mechanical repair requiring the R&R of the Timing Chain Set ... for BOTH the Front and Rear Timing Chains situated in the very front of your Ecotec Motor:

While the rest of these Videos are anecdotal and/or hands on repairs of the Ecotec Timing Chain Issues... this first one from Cloyes will show you how this job gets done with their Complete Kits. Very Cool...




 
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#13
I did the chains on a 2.4 Ecotec once. From the looks of how cramped things were, I just pulled the engine out. It was actually pretty easy to pull. I pulled it out from the top in about 2 hours. I'm glad I did it that way, it would have been very difficult otherwise. Also, while you're in there, I would replace the balance shaft chains just because you're in there. I don't know if they actually ever cause problems or not. The water pump on those is driven by the timing chain so I would take the opportunity to change the pump at the same time.
 
OP
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#14
@MRRSM; Wow! What a wealth of info. I just got done watching the Cloyes video. Now that is how to make an instructional video. Thanks so much for that. I'm going to go check out their kits as soon as I am done typing

@m.mcmillen; I'm tempted to pull it, but I don't have an engine stand, so I will do it in place. Regarding the water pump; after seeing where the water pump is, I agree with you...now is the time to do the pump, as well.
 
OP
OP
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#15
Had a heck of a time in the shop today. Still need to get the crank pulley off. I've been searching the web for different ways to do that and have a few ideas. I think I'll start with borrowing a buddies air impact wrench.

Just from what I can see of the timing chains, there doesn't appear to be an issue. The chain is tight, and the two cam shafts are properly timed to each other. Hopefully tomorrow I can get the pulley and engine cover off and take a look inside.

I see colored "reminder" marks everywhere. Like someone has had this thing torn down before and marked things for easier reassembly. I hope I don't learn that the previous owner already did the timing chains and that this is all for nothing.
 

MRRSM

Lifetime VIP Supporter
#18
If you finally decide to Pull The Harmonic Balancer... While the information in this Link covers that difficult action on a 2.2L Ecotec... it may provide you with some alternative ideas on how to "Beat Archimedes" at his own game of gaining some additional Leverage to Break the HB Bolt Loose and not damage anything. Elevating the Vehicle much higher than normal (safely) may be required in order to have enough "swing" room for the Extra Long Breaker Bar.

There are also a few 2.2L Ecotec Youtube Videos that show some variations on this Bracing Theme... using pieces of custom cut 2"X4" Wood wedged in and onto the Frame-Body areas adjacent the Wheel Well so that a Socket can engage with a Longer 1/2" Extensions can clear the body. Then the Breaker Bar will have enough Freedom of Movement to allow you the chance to loosen that damned HB "Jesus Nut":

http://www.originalmechanic.com/2015/03/replacing-crankshaft-front-oil-seal-on.html

As a Rule... using an Impact Wrench to pound away for long periods of time on Harmonic Balancer Bolts to loosen them from Crankshafts can cause many of them to lose their Casting or forging "Tune" ...and set up subtle internal Crank conditions that display unexpected or unexplained Engine Vibrations later on... so if you can succeed with using a "Low Impact Leverage " solution instead... so much the better.
 
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Eric04

Silver Supporter
#19
I've turned it a couple times messing with the crankshaft pulley and it is still tight up top. Tomorrow I'll turn it some more and try to watch the chain while I'm turning it.
I really didn't want to point you toward the chain initially, because I know it's a PITA to dive into, but the p0016 and 17 in unison, especially on this engine, ordinarily mean the timing has gone astray. You haven't wasted any of your efforts because the only way to know is to dig. If you can find nothing wrong with the chain, tensioner, or guides then the next recommended course of action is to pull both camshaft position actuator solenoids and inspect for clogs/general condition. You may have already done this. It's counter-intuitive to start with the chain but multiple timing related codes simultaneously and suddenly occurring don't leave many avenues.
 
OP
OP
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#20
@ MRRSM; Today, I think I saw the video you are referring to; a guy used a piece of wood bolted to the pulley and wedged it in the frame/wheel well. Simple and effective.

I'll take a look at it with fresh eyes when I get home tonight and figure out some way to keep it from spinning.

@Eric; thanks for the words of encouragement. This is only my 3rd or so trip this deep into an engine, so some of it has been kind of a struggle at times. I appreciate the help from you and the others.
 
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MRRSM

Lifetime VIP Supporter
#21
The overarching thing to consider is that once you get that deep into this repair again... The Cloyes Kit(s) have components that are rife with UPGRADED HARDWARE that will perform ever so much Better... for ever so much LONGER, once the Dual Timing Chain Kits get installed and that Motor gets buttoned up.

The one additional thing that I recommend besides pulling the Fuel Pump Relay and turning over the engine enough to Oil the Chains...is to Liberally Douse the Timing Chains and Gears and Guides down there with Permatex "ULTRA-SLICK" Engine Assembly Lube and from the very first moment that Engine Fires up and Springs to Life... it will run quietly and smoothly with minimal friction and especially... NO IMMEDIATE INSULTS to the Timing Chain Guides on Day One as well. :>)

Available for under $8.00 @ Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000HBNVSK/?tag=elightbars-20

PERMATEXENGINEASSEMBLYLUBE.jpg

PS... Before you Install the Valve Cover... Put a Few Drops of this Slick Stuff on each and every Camshaft Lobe... and they will smoothly operate the Valve Train activity during the New First Start as well.. :>)
 
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OP
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#22
I am getting the Cloyes kits; both timing and balance shaft. Going to do the water pump while I'm in there. New gaskets all the way down. Maybe new plugs. Anything else that looks like it needs it. Inspect and clean the camshaft position actuator solenoids . And thanks for the Ultra Slick recommendation. I was curious what the best thing was for the dry, new chains.

One question for everyone; do I replace all the sprockets, too? Mine is VVT and while I haven't priced them, those cam sprockets look pricey.

I don't have a lot of time tonight, but I'm off to the shop to make another attempt at the crank pulley bolt. Assuming I get it...if the pulley is stuck, a friend at work is bringing in his puller tomorrow for me to borrow.
 
#23
One question for everyone; do I replace all the sprockets, too? Mine is VVT and while I haven't priced them, those cam sprockets look pricey.
When I do timing belts or timing chains, I change everything under the cover. It isn't worth the trouble to me to have to go back and do the same work again because I skipped over something.

I just checked the stock of my local GMC dealer and they have three of those VVT sprockets in stock which tells me that they are a problem. The part number is 12621505 (same one for intake and exhaust cam) and the part number for the bolt (must be replaced if removed) is 11588844.
 
OP
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#24
It isn't worth the trouble to me to have to go back and do the same work again because I skipped over something.
The logical side of my brain knew what the answer was. The tightwad side is fighting it! I'm going to go price them out and see which side wins.

EDIT: Yikes! Delco $108 each; Ultra-Power $53; and Standard in the middle at $83. This is getting expensive(r).

Tried to pull the camshaft position actuator solenoids and they are in there solid. Didn't want to pull too hard, so I came back in for a beer and some YouTube-ing. This thing has been kicking my butt for the better part of a week. I'm taking the night off.
 
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MRRSM

Lifetime VIP Supporter
#25
It is a Cautionary Tale... But... There is a very Good Reason why I try to avoid using any "Jack-Leg" Techniques on Engines that sport Smooth Crankshaft Noses with NO Woodruff Keys...( Hence the Ridiculous Amount of Torque Necessary to Lock the HB firmly to the Crankshaft)... and instead just Buy The Damned Special Flex-Plate Holding Tool that generally occupies the Bolt Holes once the Starter gets Removed giving open access to Lock Down the Flex-Plate and prevent it from Rotating during the work.

Now even though you WILL be able to Restrain the Harmonic Balancer and keep it from turning, if the Harmonic Balancer Bolt is of the TTY Flavor AND because you already suspect that your Engine has been "gone into' on a previous occasion ... If that Old OEM HB Bolt was Mistakenly RE-USED and it winds up being STUCK HARD inside of the threaded nose of the Crankshaft... then the Harmonic Balancer might SLIP from underneath the over-stretched Bolt Face as the effort to Break that HB Bolt Loose is being done.

If the Crankshaft and HB Bolt Turn as One Unit and it likewise moves the Rotating Assembly Out of Position in a Counter-Clockwise motion ...it may wind up allowing the Pistons to make Hard Contact with the Open Valves. And so... Please ... Apply only a Very Steady and Firm Torque on the Breaker Bar...and No More Than Necessary to Break it Loose.

As for the resistance offered by the Two CPAS Units... Avoid trying to pry them loose and Double Check that ALL of their Fasteners have been completely removed. Once you are certain that nothing other than Gasket Adhesion is holding them in AND you've Reviewed the AllData or Digital Manual for information about ANY other things that might secretly be in the way... try twist-nudging them from the side at a Right Angle from the Bracket to coax some slight rotation... and then rotate them back and forth until they yield and come out. Fatigue and Critical Mechanical Thinking During any Dis-Assembly or Re-Assembly Engine Work are NOT Good Bed-Fellows... So you are Smart to Take a Break.

'The Legendary Mac' is OHhhhhh So right about Engine Building vs. Being Too Parsimonious ...

"To Be Penny-Wise... Is to be Pound Foolish..."
 
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#26
and instead just Buy The Damned Special Flex-Plate Holding Tool
I've done some preliminary searching for this, but so far I am not finding one that works with my L4 engine. For instance: Speed 2800 LS1 LS2 LS3 LS6 LSX Flywheel Flexplate Holder Locking Tool

And while I love having all the best tools, just the parts for this fix are really adding up. And if I am going to get all new sprockets (I am) I'm going to have to cut back on tool buying and make due. That said...I work in a manufacturing plant with access to a laser, lathe, and mill (I program them all) and making tools is an option. (yes, I know I am spoiled in that regard) For instance, as we speak I am drawing a puller for the HB since my friend couldn't find his.

EDIT: On second thought, I can't make this and buy all the bolts for $15
 
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MRRSM

Lifetime VIP Supporter
#27
I'm not certain about the comparative designs of the Harmonic Balancers suited between the GM 4.2L Engine and your GM Ecotec 2.4L Engine... but from personal, hands on experience... THIS is the Optimum Design Choice for Pullers and it comes from OTC:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000P6UT2I/?tag=elightbars-20

OTCPULLER6667.jpg

FWIW... Mentioned previously in the "How To Remove The..." link I described earlier...

8) Remove the crank pulley. Mine slipped right off. It may be necessary to use a puller. There are three holes for a puller to be attached on the pulley.

Hopefully...you will have a similar experience and obviate the need to purchase ANY Pullers. You won't know until that Damned Crank Bolt 'loosens up'.

This suggestion will all sound quite unorthodox...But:

With that Idea in Mind...If you intend upon building a Custom Ecotec Flywheel Holding Tool... and you can get your hands on a Cheap, Used Flywheel. Then you can Chop a decent section from the Outer Flex-Plate Fire Ring Gear Teeth and include some of the inner Flex-Plate Metal... and after INVERTING it... Slip the Ring Teeth Section together along the Flex-Plate Teeth through the Engine Starter Hole.

Then make your "Edits" and Weld up an "O2Bravada Ecotec Bracket" that has Two matching holes that align with the Starter Bolt On Holes/Studs... and after fitting in and aligning everything correctly... weld the whole damned thing up ...and Voila'' Bolt that Bad Boy Tool onto the Block and its Bye-Bye Old HB Bolt!
 
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#29
Thanks, guys. I was under the impression that I had to use the style that had bolts to thread into the three tapped holes, so I bought the one I linked to above from Harbor Freight. I have such limited time weekday evening that it'll most likely be Friday before I get real serious about it. Mean time, I am trying to plan ahead and prepare.
 
#30
For a flexplate holding apparatus, check if there is an access hole to the bolts. If there is, similar to 4.2L, just use a socket on the bolt. The access may also be by the starter hole once it's removed.

The 4.2L Kent-Moore harmonic balancer removal tool (first design) included a tool which was basically a socket welded to a bar. Insert into the hole onto the bolt, flexplate is held in place from turning.
 

MRRSM

Lifetime VIP Supporter
#31
Amen...

Its the One with the Green Handle from THIS Kit...

J44226.jpeg

http://www.freedomracing.com/crankshaft-balancer-remover-set-j-44226-u.html

If you are lucky enough to have an Access Port underneath and to the back of the Crank-Case that Lines Up with any of the (3) 15MM Torque Converter Bolts. Then THIS Green Handled Thing Snugs up through that hole over a Bolt Head and it locks the Flex-Plate solidly still. It is very important to prevent the Counter-Clockwise Rotation of this Interference Engine and ensuring a solid position of that Arm of the Tool is important...so having the help of a Second Pair of Hands would be a way to guarantee that the rigid lock-down of that Flex-Plate (Crankshaft) does NOT move.

The Other Round Gizmo Parts of the Kit are used to Hold the Interior of the HB Spokes while using a 1/2" Breaker Bar tucked into the Flange to restrain the Harmonic Balancer. And FINALLY... while you use another Breaker Bar with a Parkerized, Black Steel Impact Grade Socket ...you should be able to Unscrew that Damned Crankshaft Bolt.

Then... If the Harmonic Balancer does NOT slide off easily... that Threaded Pin-Pusher Portion of this Kit steps in after being threaded into that Circular Flanged Plate. That part of this Rig locks inside of the Round Gizmo holding the HB still. Then... after the 'Recently Loosened HB Bolt' gets lightly re-threaded back into the nose of the Crankshaft Bolt Hole and then the Pointed Rod gets slowly tightened down on the Bolt until the HB gradually slides off the nose of the Crankshaft. There might be Cheaper versions of this kit available on eBay ...but most of the time... Freedom Racing has the Lowest Prices on such things.
 
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#32
However, you do not NEED that Spent-Moore tool. Just use a a socket and breaker bar if you have that access hole. A normal puller like the one @m.mcmillen linked to will pull the HB off.
 

MRRSM

Lifetime VIP Supporter
#33
Good News... I just reviewed the Cloyes Ecotec Timing Chain Set R&R Video...at 4:05 to 4:15 in the Video...and I saw a WOODRUFF KEY in place inside a Slot on the Nose of the Crankshaft... and so you do NOT Require any other means to ensure that the Harmonic Balancer will HOLD that Crank still as long as it is BRACED WELL. It will NOT allow any sliding movement of the Crankshaft Counter-Clockwise during the R&R of the Crankshaft Bolt... no matter how much Counter-Torque you need to apply to Break the Bolt Loose.

I'm very sorry for this oversight. I've had my focus set upon the GM 4.2L Engine for so long... it NEVER occurred to me that the GM Engineers would have the Good Sense to Go Back to using the Woodruff Key Design in their later Ecotec Engine Blueprints. The presence of that handy, externally removable 32MM Threaded Timing Chain Adjuster should have clued me in that they "Changed their Minds" about using the same, nonsensical ways they built the otherwise Brilliant Atlas LL8 Motor. Bravo...GM...Ecotec.

gmecotecengine.jpg

Oh... and in regards to what the Intake & Exhaust Internal Counter-Balance Shafts look like... Here is an image that shows they look like the Compressor-Impeller Blades inside of the Old GM 671 Blowers (Super-Chargers)... :>)

ECOTECBALANCERS.jpg

...and here is an image of the Naked Crankshaft:

ECOTECUSEDCRANKSHAFT.jpg
 
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