2008 9-7X Electrical Issues (Headlights)

[Just_Michael]

So, I bought a 2008 Saab 9-7X 4.2i with 132,000 miles because I love Saabs, and drove it back home from a dealership in Indiana. Car ends up shuddering right as I get into town. Next day, take it to Autozone, and they do their diagnostic and I find out that it's the Camshaft Variable Timing Solenoid. Fearing that it may have jumped timing, I get it fixed. $348 later (including an oil change), problem vanishes. However, now I have another issue that seems to have sprung up.

After getting the CVT solenoid fixed, the headlights now seem to have a mind of their own. Several nights, they don't turn on at all, and I'm forced to use high beams. Stalk seems to function fully, and when I turn the ring, I hear the relays clicking. Parking lights/side markers work. During the day, headlights seem to function just fine, but when the sun goes down, the Rogue II turns into Christine, and she decides when I get to use my headlights or not.

The relays all work (I swapped the #59 with the #46 when the headlights were out, which did exactly nothing). My wife went out last night and pulled the 10 amp fuse for the headlamps and put it back in, and they came back on. Can't be the light sensor as I had a flashlight on it at night to simulate day light so it's not wired wrong. Nothing looks loose when I open the hood.

I have another issue but one that is likely unrelated. I have a dead engine coolant temp sensor or thermostat, and I was going to replace them both myself for the whopping amount of $78 just to get it out of the way and be done with it. The lumbar support compressor doesn't seem to work, either, just clicking, and there's a loud idler pulley noise that squeaks under acceleration, but none of that is fatal or really of concern.

However, before I start modifying it by putting in a new double-DIN head unit and other electronic goodies, I want to make sure I'm at least street legal with headlights that function. Any thoughts or ideas you may have as to where the source of this problem could be coming from would be greatly appreciated. Thank you ahead of time!

 

[budwich]

pull the same fuse again.... carefully "twist" the pins a bit to cause them to have a bit of "spiral". This will improve the chances of a better / continuous connection. As the vehicle is "old", the fuse box on circuits that get a lot of "power use" age and the connections get weakened.

 

[Just_Michael]

I'll try that and report back. I'm assuming there's nothing near the CVT solenoid that would have caused the issue, then? I don't want to have to shell out $129 if I don't have to for this diagnostic.

How common an issue is this on these engines?

 

[TollKeeper]

If you do end up needing a headlight switch, I think I still have one from when I had my 9-7x I could sell you.

To me it sounds like the light sensor mounted in the center of the dash might be faulty.

I also have some HID 9-7x headlights I need to get rid of.

 

[Just_Michael]

How much of a pain is it to rip apart the dash to replace that light sensor?

I'm short on funds right now, but will probably have more money to throw at replacing components like the headlights in november. I think I'm going to haver to replace the exhaust, too, as I think that may be going.

 

[TJBaker57]

How much of a pain is it to rip apart the dash to replace that light sensor?

I would not even consider this unless I have tested it and proven the part is bad. Otherwise it is likely a waste of time, money, and effort.

The same is true for ANY potential part replacement.

 

[wags69]

It is not hard at all to change the sensor.
Take a pry tool, and pry between the dash and left speaker. Try not to use a screwdriver! You will see where to go.
Then pry that panel up while going across. You can unplug the sensor and pull that panel out completely. sensor comes out with 1/4 turn.

 

[budwich]

How much of a pain is it to rip apart the dash to replace that light sensor?

I'm short on funds right now, but will probably have more money to throw at replacing components like the headlights in november. I think I'm going to haver to replace the exhaust, too, as I think that may be going.

why are you thinking this (ie. light sensor). You already indicated that you tested it via a flashlight. Did you "adjust" the fuse like suggested? This "adjustment" also holds for the headlight relay pins too.

 

[budwich]

My wife went out last night and pulled the 10 amp fuse for the headlamps and put it back in, and they came back on

what fuse number was it? It is some what "funny" as there are TWO fuses for low beams (one for each side). It would be wise to get a meter and check for voltage at the fuse sockets when the light switch is set to "headlights on". Go from the results.

Is this vehicle equipped for daylight running lights?

ADDED: the sensor is not really involved in the low beams ON/OFF. It is used to determine DRL operation or "normal headlights". The headlight switch has more impact.

 

[Mooseman]

Just so everybody is aware, like all things related to Saab, the headlight system is different than all the other GMT360's. The DRL are actually the turn signals on bright and there is a separate module that controls the DRL and headlights which controls the turn signals as well. And since it's a 4.2i, that means they are halogen.

You should grab the schematics for the headlights and DRL/turn signals here:

https://charm.li/Saab/2008/9-7X%20L6-4.2L/Repair%20and%20Diagnosis/

Then start checking your voltages and tracing the wiring from the headlights going backwards until you find where the loss of power is happening.

 

[TJBaker57]

(I swapped the #59 with the #46 when the headlights were out, which did exactly nothing).

Seeing that the Saab is naturally different than the rest of the herd I have been perusing the wiring diagrams for a couple days.

If I read the diagrams correctly there are Lo Beam 2 variations, one with "TT6" and one without "TT6".


EDIT HERE: I looked up the RPO for TT6 and gound it is for "Headlamps, high intensity discharge".

Further it at least appears that WITH TT6 the low beams use a standard relay (#59) whereas WITHOUT TT6 the Lo Beams use the same HDM solid state driver module (#46) like the rest of the platform does.

Even further these two devices, relay #59 and HDM #46 have different pin configurations and cannot be swapped as each will not fit into the others socket.

Below are the two variants diagrams.

Headlights/Daytime Running Lights (DRL) Diagram 1 — 2008 Saab 9-7X L6-4.2L Service Manual | Operation CHARM

Detailed repair manual for the 2008 Saab 9-7X L6-4.2L.

charm.li

Headlights/Daytime Running Lights (DRL) Diagram 2 — 2008 Saab 9-7X L6-4.2L Service Manual | Operation CHARM

Detailed repair manual for the 2008 Saab 9-7X L6-4.2L.

charm.li

 

[wags69]

The DRLs with bright turn signals is for the HID equipped vehicles only.
If halogen low beams, DRLs are the halogen low beams.

Halogen equipped low beams are generally on 4.2(Linear) vehicles.
HIDs are equipped on 5.3(Arc), and 6.0(Aero) vehicles.

There are exceptions to this, but this is the general rule for the 9-7s.

 

[budwich]

Just so everybody is aware, like all things related to Saab, the headlight system is different than all the other GMT360's. The DRL are actually the turn signals on bright and there is a separate module that controls the DRL and headlights which controls the turn signals as well. And since it's a 4.2i, that means they are halogen.

You should grab the schematics for the headlights and DRL/turn signals here:

https://charm.li/Saab/2008/9-7X%20L6-4.2L/Repair%20and%20Diagnosis/

Then start checking your voltages and tracing the wiring from the headlights going backwards until you find where the loss of power is happening.

Looking at the diagrams in the GM SI (of course, could be wrong), but the "turn on" function is caused by by the BCM. The only "decision" that is made is whether the lights go for "full intensity" and "pulsed reduced" intensity. Based on the "10 amp fuse" denoted by the OP, the system appears to be "standard lighting". There are a few "choice inputs".... but for testing, the light switch should be set in a known position (not auto) and key in OFF for testing to see what happens and documented. Other scenarios, can then be had with KEY ON, lights "ON" setting, etc...

Anyway, as suggested, checks of voltages at key points will help. Also, since it also appears that the OP could cause the lights to function with a "fuse re-insertion", the check there after, once the lights are on (I assume with key in "ON"), as was "partially described", the flashlight test should be used to confirm what state the lights go to, ie. reduced or full lighting. It is important to state what settings are being used at any time.

 

[Mooseman]

If halogen low beams, DRLs are the halogen low beams.

My bad, I was sure I saw a 4.2i that had the halogens and turn signal DRL. Makes sense for GM so as to not need to change the DRL from the other 360's if it doesn't have HID's.

That being said, I did find this info regarding the DRL:

DAYTIME RUNNING LAMPS (DRL) - STANDARD HEADLAMPS

The ambient light sensor is a light sensitive transistor that varies its voltage signal to the body control module (BCM) in response to changes to the outside (ambient) light level. When the BCM receives this signal, it will either turn ON the daytime running lamps (DRL) or the headlamps for auto headlamp operation. Any function or condition that turns ON the headlights will cancel the DRL operation. With the headlight switch in the AUTO position, the headlights will either be turned ON or OFF, after an approximate 8 second delay, depending on whether a daylight or low light condition is sensed. When the ambient light sensor signals the BCM for DRL operation in daylight conditions, the BCM sends a pulse width modulated (PWM) ground signal to the headlamp driver module which will illuminate the low beam headlamps at a 70 percent intensity level. The DRL will operate when the ignition switch is in the RUN position, the headlamp and switch is in the AUTO position, the gear selector is not in the PARK position, and the parking brake is released. When these conditions have been met and the ambient light sensor indicates daytime conditions, the DRL will illuminate.

DRL operation can also be temporarily disabled by applying the park brake. This will cancel DRL operation until the park brake is released.

Even further these two devices, relay #59 and HDM #46 have different pin configurations and cannot be swapped as each will not fit into the others socket.

I'm also inclined to think that it was not possible to swap between these two relays. #46 is a PWM module and cannot be inserted into a regular relay slot, which #59 is. The only other one that I know of that #46 would be able to be swapped with is #45 (fan) but you shouldn't have one as 2008 went to the thermal fan. For my own sanity, I would have just gotten a new module for #46 as this sounds like a problem it would exhibit.

 

[TJBaker57]

Would I be correct in thinking that with standard lighting (without TT6) there would be no relay #59 as that is only required of the higher amperages of the HID lamps?

And WITH TT6 HID lighting there would be no HDM #46?

That is how I see the two different wiring diagrams.

 

[budwich]

Would I be correct in thinking that with standard lighting (without TT6) there would be no relay #59

at least not directly involved in the light circuit but it could be used elsewhere as in EAP (adjustable pedals).\

oops, that's a fuse... not a relay position. the EAP relay is 49... so maybe the op has a typo.

SORRY... disregard my post... I misread the diagram on my device and thought the 10a signified a standard light while 20a were HID as I thought I saw 20a across all lights on hid.

I am trying to make sense of this from the fuse box labels on the SI...

 

[Mooseman]

And WITH TT6 HID lighting there would be no HDM #46?

That is correct as the HID are not controlled by PWM at all, just on/off.

Would I be correct in thinking that with standard lighting (without TT6) there would be no relay #59 as that is only required of the higher amperages of the HID lamps?

That would be correct.

And looking at the schematics, it would appear that it was possible to have HID (TT6) with the 4.2i. It could have been a selectable option or maybe included in a particular group of options. And the schematic also seems to imply that the 5.3i also could have had the halogen non-HID option. Only way to tell the difference between the two schematics if that the one for HID has the high voltage warning symbol on it between the two headlight boxes.