2007 Tahoe 4l60e Transmission Fluid/Filter Change Questions.

[{tpc}]

Ok so I want to do a transmission fluid change on this guy, and fairly soon. It was supposed to have been done at time of purchase at the dealer last year, however my confidence in that is waning.

So I have 2 main questions, besides the obvious "how do you do it"?

One is, should I pay to have the dealer do it? I really don't mind the possible $150-$200 cost of them doing it, but what are the chances of them shortcutting the procedure, not completely flushing the thing out including the cooler, and or skipping over the filter change? Am I over thinking it? I also worried about the 10000 other things I know they will find wrong, most of which I feel confident I can handle myself (transfer case/diff fluid change, cv axles, leaking seal on front diff, tie rods etc), but they always scare my half to death when I go in for anything other than a oil change.

The second one, which may or may not be easy to figure out, is how do you know if you have the deep pan? Assuming I do it myself, I can purchase a ACDelco 24208576 Professional Automatic Transmission Fluid Filter Kit on amazon for about $28, but that kit said Notes:USED W/DEEP PAN 76.6MM. I would be less than happy mid change to find out I have the wrong one. Amazon says fits 2007 tahoe blah blah blah..but not sure if I can trust it. I got the p/n off a different forum describing the procedure.

Which, brings me back to the procedure. I'm not quite sure I follow 100%. I get you use the internal pump of the truck to get 3-4 quarts out. It seems you do this first. Then drop the pan, where if you do a good job you can get the last 3-4 quarts out without coating yourself and the driveway with it. Pull the filter and replace, clean the pan, put it back together. Dump in 3-4 quarts through the filler tube? Then start the truck and keep pouring another 3-4 quarts through until you see crappy looking fluid replaced with new stuff? Then put it back together and top it off with remaining 3-4 quarts?

I know thats a lot of silly question marks there lol. But I have this feeling I'm missing something, and I'm going to buy 15 quarts of fluid and only use 8, and not be able to figure out why.

I do have the ability to connect up to the external trans cooler or the one from the radiator, because I installed the factory cooler/lines myself last year, so I have extra old lines, new lines, clips, etc (they had to send me a second kit when first was damaged).

Of course that install was like a 12 hour project lol. I guess its making me nervous about this lol.

And as far as cost. I mean 1 quart of valvoline dex vi is running about $8. Times 15 equals $120 plus the kit $30, so I'm at $150 and I haven't started. Of course thats o'riellys price on single quart atf, maybe I can get it cheaper elsewhere in bulk quantity?

What prompted this all was my drive in...stuck in traffic for a long time, watched temps climb fairly high, 195 range, which if it wasn't for the fact it was 50 out, wouldn't have surprised me. Switched routes, watched temp go back into normal area (or what I would consider more normal I guess), checked when I got to work. Full of fluid, still red in color but a little darker grungier than I would like.

Looking at dealer sites said something about a trans flush for $150ish for some BG ultra guard stuff? But says up to 3 quarts? Not sure exactly what that is, but it sounds like something I wouldn't want.

Any help/thoughts etc is appreciated.

 

[AtlWrk]

195 is not unreasonable at all, even in 50 degrees. But if it's time to change your fluid then it's time.

I just did this job myself Saturday.

Quick answers:

1. If there's a step in the bottom of pan you have the deep pan. Shallow pans are flat across the entire bottom. Chances are VERY good you have the deep pan. A Google image search will show you the difference.
2. I bought 3 gallons (12 quarts) of AC Delco fluid on amazon for $73 shipped. You obviously have to wait for shipping but given a $25-30 difference from retail...worth it IMO.
3. Your procedure sounds good.
4. If you're worried about them skipping a step (not dropping the pan and/or changing the filter or seal) mark an exposed edge of the seal/pan with a paint marker. If the mark is intact after you get the truck back you can call BS. Also, tell them you'll want to examine the old filter after. If you provide them the filter they have no reason to balk, it's your part. Some shops/dealers will even tell you that they have "lifetime" filters installed and don't need to be replaced.

 

[Mooseman]

Flushes using a machine is frowned upon as they tend to do it backwards and pushes junk back. If you go on Trailvoy, there is an excellent article on how to do your own flush using the cooler lines, which also reduces the mess a lot when you drop the pan. If you've installed a cooler, you can do this. I've been doing it this way since I got my first TB 4 years ago and no problems.

You should be able to find DexVI cheaper by the gallon. Check Walmart.

 

[{tpc}]

Thanks for the heads up and guidance. I swear no one near me sells dex vi in anything but quarts. Cheapest I can find is napa branded stuff at 6.69/qt. I've checked walmart, o'rielly, autozone, advance auto, pep boys, and napa.

But if I am going to do this one myself, I'll just get it from amazon I guess. I'd likely get the filter from there as well.

Still waiting to hear back from the dealer what they might charge.

Edit: I did see the difference between the shallow and deep pans on image search so thanks for that. Say for some reason I had the shallow pan, would it be worth it to get the deep pan along with the filter? Or are they not interchangeable like that?

 

[AtlWrk]

They are interchangeable as long as you have the clearance underneath the pan (i.e. there isn't a crossmember in the way). The deep pan gives you 2 more quarts of capacity. I strongly suspect you already have the deep pan though.

 

[{tpc}]

I think I may be tackling this one myself. $235.60 out the door tax included is what the dealership wants. Seems a touch on the high side. Not that it is crazy talk by any means, but its not the lower end or even middle end of $150-$200. If I can get the fluid and filter kit for $100 on amazon, it makes more sense to do that I think.

They would have had me at $175 lol. I'm going to have to find lots of cardboard and rags for this one I bet!

 

[Mooseman]

Here's the link to the article:
http://forums.trailvoy.com/articles.php?do=viewarticle&artid=88

Only thing I would change is that you should use the driver side out of the cooler so you get the old fluid out of that too. If you added an aux cooler, it will be easy. A lot less mess this way too as you drain it before dropping the pan.

 

[RedEnvoyDenali]

As much as I don't like the OS they still have some good advice hidden over there. Here is a link to the procedure for using the tranny Gerotor pump to clean out the old fluid.

http://forums.trailvoy.com/articles.php?do=viewarticle&artid=88

Once you have the old fluid out, my recommendation is to add a tranny cooler and drain plug for making the job so much easier the next time.

me dumb didn't see this link in the post just above mine. Anyway still a great way to accomplish this task.

 

[{tpc}]

Another dumb question....Dexron VI is Dexron VI right? I think I read somewhere (though I may be mistaken) that in order to be called Dexron VI on the label is has to be the same stuff as GM, just different branding?

Anyways, the reason I ask is because on amazon there is a deal for 12 quarts of Havoline Dexron VI for like $50, which right now is about $20 cheaper than what 3 gals of ac delco would run at $23 per gallon.

Will 12 quarts do the job? I think I have an extra quart of valvoline dexron vi in the garage as well if I need to top off.

Of course single quarts of havoline are $10 so it would be less expensive to grab a single quart of valvoline locally. Just wondering if its ok to mix and match? Typically I wouldn't do that, at least not with the initial change, but in this case it might be necessary if 12 quarts isn't quite enough for the full change.

 

[Mooseman]

Yes, it has to meet GM's specs for Dex VI to be licensed to use the name Dexron VI. That's why Dex III is just the wild west now because GM has dropped it completely. Jim Bob in his basement can call bacon grease Dexron III and sell it and GM won't say anything. Another reason to stick with Dex VI.

Now if you get the bottles and they have Dex VI stickers over the Dex III labeling, then that's fraud.

 

[{tpc}]

Yes, it has to meet GM's specs for Dex VI to be licensed to use the name Dexron VI. That's why Dex III is just the wild west now because GM has dropped it completely. Jim Bob in his basement can call bacon grease Dexron III and sell it and GM won't say anything. Another reason to stick with Dex VI.

Now if you get the bottles and they have Dex VI stickers over the Dex III labeling, then that's fraud.

Gotcha. So basically its safe to mix and match if it's legit. I'm sure this is due the descriptions and part numbers of the bottles, but will double check of course when they come in. What I also found interesting after some more searching is that havoline is an original formulator whereas ac/delco is a reblender..if that makes any difference.

So I guess all that matters is if 12 quarts will do the job...but I guess if it doesn't I can run to the store and grab some valvoline, castrol or whatever and finish it off.

 

[triz]

http://www.amsoil.com/mygarage/VehicleLookupPage.aspx?FromIndex=1&url2=2007+CHEVROLET%20TRUCKS+TAHOE+J

When I did mine I had a extra quart since you lose some in the process of flushing it.

$50 bucks is damn cheap.

I'm partial to the Amsoil especially for transmission stuff. I spent double that for three gallons.

 

[{tpc}]

I ordered the case of 12, so will see how that goes. Too cheap to pass on it.

 

[{tpc}]

Ok alldata syas 80 inch lbs for torque on the pan bolts. OS describes 120 in lbs.

Wasn't able to get the 1/4 inch digital torque wrench from work, so I have my trusty craftsman 1/2 inch drive bar torque wrench, or a lovely harbor freight pittsburgh pro 1/2 drive clicker torque wrench. Both of which will go down to 10 ft lbs, which would be 120 inch lbs.

So whats right, 80 inch lbs or 120 inch lbs?

And should I use either the craftsman or the clicker pittsburgh? Or should I search for a torque wrench on a smaller scale from advance? FWIW, advance has one that's 3/8 drive but says its lowest setting is 120 inch lbs.

 

[Mooseman]

There's not much difference between the two, like less than 2 lbs.ft. I don't use a torque wrench on the pan myself.

 

[{tpc}]

Thank you, Mooseman.

Any idea which to disconnect from the radiator to pump the fluid out? I am thinking the bottom side (on the 5.3 the transmission cooler built into the radiator runs vertically instead of horizontally.

The reason I am thinking the bottom side, is the diagram of the factory cooler shows a line coming into it on the right (if facing the truck) and says "from transmission". The line on the left says auxiliary hose "to radiator". This aux hose is connected to the top side. The bottom side just says "pipe (outlet)".

So I am guessing the bottom side is the return to the transmission. Sure hope I don't have to remove the front bumper again to get at it. Ugh.

 

[{tpc}]

Wait a min. Scratch that. If I remove the bottom side on the radiator, it would just pour out the bottom of the radiator, right?

If I remove the top side which is coming from the aux cooler....I think this is what I want?

The way I see it happening is pumping from trans to aux cooler to radiator cooler to trans. Is that correct?

Just don't see how I can get the stuff out of the radiator cooler, unless the action of the pump is going to pull it in from there?

 

[{tpc}]

I think I have this all wrong. Got a feeling I won't be doing this today until I can get this figured out.

Been reading a ton of other stuff on the internet, and now I am thinking that the trans line pumps out from trans into lower radiator fitting, out upper radiator fitting and back to trans. So in my case after it leaves upper radiator fitting it heads to aux cooler on the front, and then out from aux cooler back to trans.

If thats the case I would need to get access to aux cooler on the front and add a fitting to the cooler than I can attach the tubing to?

It seems as if with the additional cooler, I cannot break a line without adding a piece in its place? Ugh. So confused.

 

[Mooseman]

Traditionally, on side tank radiators, the tranny fluid runs from top to bottom. To confirm, disconnect the top line from the radiator, slip a hose on it and just crank the engine, don't start it (pull the fuel pump relay). Put a rag or something to catch fluid if it happens to spurt out of the open radiator connector (flows from bottom to top). If you have an aux cooler already and it was installed properly, it should flow from the radiator to the aux cooler and then back to tranny.

 

[{tpc}]

Ok, I figured that out! But now I'm at a major crossroads. I've got the pan down...well at least all the nuts out.

But I still can't get the pan out?? I removed the heat shield thinking it was in the way. still no dice. Seems the shifter linkage is in my way? I've got a couple bolts partially threaded holding the pan in while i figure this out.

Any hints?

 

[{tpc}]

So it looks like I have 2 choices, both of which aren't great.

1. I bend the bracket and then bend it back. Hate the idea but I'm almost ready to do this. Just worried that as I slip the trans pan out because its so tight I f-up something I can't see inside. I haven't forced anything yet.

2. I take another day off work...yea me! and have it flat-bedded to the dealer and pay them to finish my fuck up. Of course thats if they can get to it that quickly.

I'm kinda at my wits end. I don't think I have the tools to get the exhaust dropped down, nor kind I find the hidden nuts that hold the bracket on which have been described as a pain in the ass to remove and they are t-40? I felt around in there and I cant feel much, and I think they are covered in crud anyways.

Last option would be bolt it back together and put more fluid in, except I ave no idea what junk has already fallen inside the trans.

Oh and to bend the bracket the only way I can to it is with pressure against the pan or against the cable that is in it. None of which sound great either.

 

[{tpc}]

Ok so I pried on the bracket and got it to move out of the way. However, still something keeping me from getting it all the way out, so I am effectively screwed, unless between now and monday morning, a miracle solution pops up.

Otherwise, on monday AM, I call for a flatbed tow truck (I am assuming I need a flatbed but I don't even know that...so if you have any ideas please let me know) and I will drag it to the dealer and hope for the best.

I was able to get the pan back up in there and the bracket back to normal and I finger tightened on the pan bolts down. Pushed it into the garage. Time for a drink I guess.

 

[Mooseman]

So you've got interference from the exhaust crossover pipe? How about this... Unbolt the rear tranny mount and jack it up? The shift bracket usually isn't a problem.

Let me loot at AllData and see if I can find something. (Looked, nothing there).

 

[{tpc}]

Not sure how unbolting the rear tranny mount works or where to find it assuming I can get to it. I have read posts where it seems no big deal to replace the tranny mounts, but then again I thought this wasn't a big deal.

Where would you jack the trans up from? Where do u put the jack?

The shift linkage is in the way, like I said I was able to bend it enough to slip the pan past but then it got stuck again, and I felt going any further would be a bad thing. Ya all data isn't any help on this one, neither was my sons chilton manual.

If I have to tow it, what's the best way? If the front wheels are up and the rears rolling, do I just need it in neutral to keep the trans from doing any spinning? Or does the transfer case need to be in neutral as well? Not sure if one can put the transfer case in neutral without starting it?

Thanks for all the help. I was so excited once I got the 4 qts out...even kept the bumper on (took grills out). Now I'm a bit less excited, and the dw is asking why I was messing with it anyways.

Lol, what a mess.

 

[Mooseman]

Pan drops shouldn't be that hard unless there's something really funky with full size trucks. They should actually have more room. Sometimes you have to tilt the pan but you probably already tried that. If you were to try and jack up the tranny, you would have to jack on the transfer case I guess after unbolting the mount which might give you more room.

If you were to get it towed, a flatbed would be preferable or if leaving the rear wheels down, put the transfer case in neutral

 

[{tpc}]

I think it's due to the filter catching on the pan as well as the shift cable bracket. Plus the exhaust crossmember.

Where would the trans mount be located that I want to unbolt?

 

[Mooseman]

Should be just behind the pan IIRC. Two bolts.

 

[{tpc}]

Ok I'll take a second look tomorrow. Nice thing about this truck as opposed to the envoy, I can get underneath and work without lifting the truck at all.

Plus I should have extra hands tomorrow which helps.

Just to clarify, can the transfer case be placed in neutral despite the engine not running?

 

[Wooluf1952]

Yes it can. Just make sure you have the wheels blocked and/or the parking brake set. Park doesn't work with the t-case in neutral.

 

[{tpc}]

Should be just behind the pan IIRC. Two bolts.

I think I see it on alldata correctly. 2 bolts hold the mount to the trans and 2 bolts hold the mount to the crossmember.

Also going to grab some torx bit's and a flexible mirror from HF, see if I can get the bracket off. Committed to trying to get this done today, I really don't want to take it to the dealer.

The exhaust bolts look good, I just don't think I have long enough extensions to get in there to get them out, or the strength to get them out and put them back together. I know nothing about how the exhaust pieces seal together.

 

[{tpc}]

Ok so I tried getting the torx bit into place for the bracket. Was able to get to one screw/nut whatever. The most forward one seems a bitch to get to. Probably need to drop the front driveshaft which I'm not sure I want to attempt.

So I went plan b. Disconnected the rear trans mount and lifted up on the transfer case. I guess I know how to replace the rear trans mount now lol. But the problem is, no extra clearance was gained from the exhaust crossmember near the rear of the pan. The exhaust moved up and down with the whole thing.

Any other suggestions?

 

[{tpc}]

Lets say I remove the exhaust pipes from the manifolds. I assume there is some sort of seal in there. Are these readily available? Is it even necessary to replace?

 

[MAY03LT]

Here's the GM procedure. Steps 1-7 were just draining the fluid out of the pan first. I've done one or two of these and don't recall having to do anything special.

 

[{tpc}]

Exhaust seems out of the question for me.

Thanks for the diagram May03lt, but step 14 is what is giving me the most trouble. Reason being is they are torx bits in a blind location and the front driveshaft is (somewhat) in the way. I actually don't see any value removing the driveshaft as the front bolt location for that bracket I can't seem to get the bit in there. Fairly full of dirt, and even though I cleaned it out as best I could I was having difficulty. I didn't even try to get the ratchet up there.

I think why the whole exhaust was moving at the same time as the transfer case during this attempt was because everything is still attached to the engine and it was moving as well.

I'm not confident that even with the bracket out of the way I can get the pan out. Like I said I was able to bend the bracket out of the way to get the pan past it as much as I could, but it still felt stuck on something. I didn't want to risk breaking anything inside the transmission, so I got ot past the bracket again and bolted it back up for the night.

It all seems very simple from the diagrams but in real life not so much. If I could get at the forward torx bolt I'd give it a go, but I'm at a loss beyond that. Just worried that the bracket out of the way won't matter because of the exhaust crossmember.

 

[MAY03LT]

I knew it wasn't going to be easy when I saw that the labor time was 1.5 hours (and that is if you've got a lift and necessary tools)

So with the bracket bent, can the pan clear the stud coming straight down? Or does the pan have to be wiggled around the stud?

 

[{tpc}]

I'm not sure what stud you are referring to? Is this something underneath the pan?

For what it is worth, I WAS able to get the T-40 torx on the forward bolt of the bracket. I did not feel it was going to budge for me, and made me wonder if I might strip it due to not being able to get it all the way in. Didn't feel right so I stopped, seems bending the bracket is probably going to be the way to go.

Try to answer the question further, the pan seems to clear the bracket...its tight ie I have to keep the pry bar in there and move it every little bit that I can to get it past. Once I got it past however it did not feel right like it wanted to come out. If I had to guess, maybe it was hanging up on the filter? I'm not sure exactly what the insides look like and I felt if I tried to force it out I'd be doing more damage to something else. So I stopped and put it back up.

I was able to see the solenoids at that point but whatever it was stuck on I couldn't tell. I'm guessing the step in the pan had pressed up against the filter and I was stuck between that and the crossmember of the exhaust. Which when thinking about it, makes sense. Thats the shortest part of the pan trying to cross between the filter and the crossmember.

Maybe the issue is trying to bring the pan towards the front of the vehicle? Maybe I need to remove the transmission mount from the support crossmember, remove the crossmember entirely and then take the pan out towards the back?

Seems counter intuitive but lately I'm thinking the engineers minds where working in reverse when they made this thing lol.

 

[{tpc}]

So anymore thoughts on this? I've read some posts that say when the bracket is bent out of the way you can rotate the pan towards the heat shield side and it will clear past the bracket.

I think either way I go at it, I'd like to remove the cable from the selector and bracket. Does this just pop of the ball with a screwdriver? Or how do you remove it. Everything I've read and seen just says "remove it".

So what do you think? Drop the crossmember, bend the bracket and see if I can get it out? Or just try the twist method?

 

[{tpc}]

SUCCESS!!! What I had to do was disconnect the shift cable, bend the bracket and use a c-clamp to hold the bracket touching the driveshaft. Not Ideal I know, but after I did that I was able to twist the pan just a little and it came right down.

Now I hope I have the right parts!!

 

[{tpc}]

Ok all done, just fine tuning in the level right now. Not 100% sure I got all the old fluid out, but the shade of pink is much nicer. Didn't find anything nefarious in the pan, and no I didn't replace the old seal for the filter, this one was still very tight and I didn't want to push my luck lol.

Thanks all for the help! I really appreciate it! Hopefully this thread will come of some use to someone in the future. No leaks!!

Just have to wait for it to cool down so I can put the heat shield back on...oops lol.

 

[Mooseman]

Yep, you just kept calm and carried on! You will know for the next time and as you said, this may help somebody down the road.

The engineers sure made these a PITA to do. Wonder if they did this on purpose or just being dicks?