03envoy said:Maybe I am wrong. But, maybe the spring was designed for a reason. Nobody has tested these long enough to know. But, when I get a set, I am going to test them and see if these really give any gains or "smoother idle".
Sparky said:I suspect cost and tolerances more than anything.
03envoy said:Nobody really has used these long enough to show that they dont cause possible coil failure. Just a suggestion, But I would get these, But I want to make sure It wont turn $40 into a possible double or triple that. I saw that question in another forum. Also, Maybe they put a spring in there for a reason? What do you think?
"Better"? Any evidence other than the builder's claims?07ChevyTruck said:The main thing the Supersparkz do is give you a better electrical current to the spark plug.
Gotta ask: are these controlled lab tests, or simple functional tests as in "does the engine run?" Does your friend have an engineering background or training?07ChevyTruck said:No one I know of including the builder has measured it in a truck, but the builder is a friend of mine and I know he tests everything before he puts it up for sale.
the roadie said:Gotta ask: are these controlled lab tests, or simple functional tests as in "does the engine run?" Does your friend have an engineering background or training?
The machining quality issues (length variations - burrs in the end slots) make me think it's a garage operation, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but often goes along with amateur engineering rationalization and misuse of technical terms. Without lab experiments and measurements with data, then he has no justification to be making any technical claims such as "better spark" or the like. My job would be on the line if I made claims that could not be backed up with hard data. That's why I'm such a hard ass on products like HHO generators and these pipes.
Any dyno tests? Any oscilloscope shots of the spark waveform? Any inside-the combustion chamber video showing the flame front? (I know the last one is way beyond the range of the amateur) The scope shots of current and voltage would be the minimum fish and game standard for making any claims of a difference between OEM and the new product. Then he would have to justify the claim that a "difference" in waveforms translated into an "improvement" in combustion dynamics.07ChevyTruck said:The tests are controlled, but not in a sterlized lab with my friend in a white lab coat.
Field test sounds like "drove around for a while" unless it also includes a visit to a dyno lab.He also field tested the product for over a month in his own GMT355 with an I5 3.5L motor before he offered the product.
Cool. Is any of it related to the product and its application? I have high voltage design experience up to 2000V and high currents up to 200A and pulses as short as 10nS. And some knowledge of the internals of Ford PCMs. But except for Googling, I don't know enough about spark waveforms and combustion physics to criticize your friend's product without seeing some technical claims with data. All I have is circumstantial evidence that makes me leery.He has a degree in Engineering and a minor in Science with over 20 years of work experiance as an engineer.
In my extensive quality training, I was taught that quality means "conformance to requirements". In almost all manufacturing processes, the variations I saw in his tube length would not be acceptable. If for no other reason than they give a bad impression of the product and that the manufacturing process was out of control. "Standing behind" a product whose benefits are vague and unverifiable is easy. Convincing me that the product is anything other than opportunistic use of a (mostly) copper pipe is going to be hard. Please ask him to try.I wouldn't recomend any of his products unless I knew he stood behind everything he sells and has tested everything to ensure the highest quality.
HARDTRAILZ said:With your logic as to these working and being an improvement ...I can deduce that everyone should have a 950 cca battery instead of 800 cca because I have driven a bunch without issue and it sounds like more electricity is available.
I have driven several trips of 12 plus hours without issue. Must be better since what worked before still works.
07ChevyTruck said:As I stated supersparkz only allow the electricity to flow from the spark plug wire to the spark plug more efficiently. Nothing more and nothing less.
HARDTRAILZ said:Where is the proof of this?
Being that the stock setup is more than efficient for what needs accomplished...supersparks add nothing???
HARDTRAILZ said:Where is the proof of this?
Being that the stock setup is more than efficient for what needs accomplished...supersparks add nothing???
03envoy said:100%! There butt-Dyno seems to be sensitive. No Proof, No results = Product that isnt worth buying for no postive result.
If I get my hands on a pair of these, I will have one nice detailed review of them
What I dont get is "your friend" makes a product and doesn't show any test results or Dyno? Like stated above.
Its like selling a vitamin that doesnt gain or lose anything. Why sell a product and not show results? Just to make money? not caring if it doesnt do a thing or not?:banghead:
The burden of proof is always on the vendor to defend their claims. Without his being here in person, it's not a real discussion. Please invite him in. Then he can lay out his claims and we can have a back and forth about it.07ChevyTruck said:...nothing I or my friend can say can change that. ...
I would have to say that I have a bad impression after receiving the uneven lengths and the vendor replies, 'oh well, it's all good'.the roadie said:...the variations I saw in his tube length would not be acceptable. If for no other reason than they give a bad impression of the product and that the manufacturing process was out of control. ...
06Envoy said:I would have to say that I have a bad impression after receiving the uneven lengths and the vendor replies, 'oh well, it's all good'.
When deciding to purchase, I actually read through the bulk of the pages in the original LINK provided. I used 'the majority of these people can't all be wrong about his product can they?' thoery to make up my mind to try them. That and it was only $40.
I was all gung ho to try them at first.
What turned me off was the overall amatuerness of the product and attitude from the vendor.
That's why tomorrow when I get back to work, I'll be shipping mine out to 03Envoy.
He can be the guinea pig who doesn't have a $40 vested interest to say nice things about them online.
With no $ of his own invested, he should have no quams saying yay or nay about seeing any kind of benefit.
Just be completely honest and objective when you get them eh?
I would resign my day job tomorrow if I had a $40 product that cost me $3.50 to make and could sell 100 of them a week. If I only could sell 20 a week I'd pay a kid to crank them out and there's a great source of mod money.06Envoy said:That and it was only $40.
Ummm, your first post in the thread seemed to be a testimonial.07ChevyTruck said:I never intended to convince anyone here to purchase this product.
I don't remember if you were one of the ones who installed these at the same time as new plugs, but in my opinion (and others), it's an unjustified testimonial if you change two things at once. You can't separate the benefits of one from the other. If all you did was the pipe mod, all I was asking for is a bit of measurable data on "smoother."Yes it does make your idle and engine run smoother. In the grand scheme of things if you want get the max proformance our of your spark plugs this is the way to go.
It's time to invite your buddy here to market his product. And then we can have a technical discussion with the guy who should be able to defend them.I'm sorry if I couldn't have been more help to the members here.
Sparky said:I keep looking at these thinking to myself, "Is it really worth 40 bucks just to make it idle a little smoother?" Like really, is that going to make a bit of difference in the grand scheme of things?
07ChevyTruck said:Yes it does make your idle and engine run smoother. In the grand scheme of things if you want get the max proformance our of your spark plugs this is the way to go.