Should the United States have better gun control ???
- Thread starter Denali n DOO
- Start date
blazinlow89
Member
- Jan 25, 2012
- 2,088
So the guy I mentioned earlier in the thread that had been arrested for having a loaded gun on his passenger seat with ground down serial numbers (a felony), was arrested yesterday for possession of a shotgun, and rifle. He was also arrested in 08 for possession of drugs with intent to distribute. His bond is $25k, he will be back on the streets before new years and will probably get probation when he goes to court. This is the revolving door prison system that fails this country.
Both times he was arrested within a mile of my house. If he wanted to try and use the weapons against a law abiding citizen there would be nothing they could do outside of their home. Scum of the they earth allowed to walk free thanks to our liberal politicians.
Both times he was arrested within a mile of my house. If he wanted to try and use the weapons against a law abiding citizen there would be nothing they could do outside of their home. Scum of the they earth allowed to walk free thanks to our liberal politicians.
I have not read thru this thread past the 2nd post, as with religion, and politics, it is a very heated item, and I do not want to be drawn into a battle.. So I will say my opinion, and carry on..
In recent history, strict gun laws have made it so that many MORE human lives have been lost. In Britain, and Austrailia, when a cop see's someone commiting a violent crime, he has 3 choices. 1) Say "STOP, or I will say STOP again" or 2) Call for a higher authority, and possibly watch someone die, as it will take, on average, 18 minutes for that higher "armed" authority to get there, assuming they arent already tied up with another issue or 3) RUN MO-FER!!!
Quite simply, it doesnt work.
If 1 person in the Aurora, CO movie theater masacre had been carrying, that might have meant alot less, or maybe even only 1, dead person. or it may have resulted in the same. We just dont know.
The answer to gun violence is a sane person to retort, or fend off, the gun weilding person.
I personally dont understand why their arent more armed, and carrying, persons in schools. Schools are a government run operation, and so is the Social Security office, the city/county/circuit/federal courts, police departments (city, county, state, or Federal), and a whole list of other buildings, and places. My problem here is that 1 of these places dont have armed security persons. Can you tell me which 1 that is?
When you, as a parent/grandparent/etc, drop off your mini prodige at your local school, whether it be a pre-school, grade school, middle school, high school, and even colleges, did you not expect him/her to get a good education, a decent meal, and to be protected from whatever may, or may not, invade that school? All parents are tasked with the responsibility, and the requirement of the law, of providing for, and protecting our kids. However, we cant sit in their classroom all day to verify its actually happening, or to add that extra measure of protection, it isnt allowed. And with most schools being "gun-free" what good would it do anyways?
And we still drop our kids off at the school everyday, without even having a concern or a care about it. Because this is what we expect? Try telling that to a parent of the Newtown school, or the Columbine school.
Now to the point of the second ammendment.. Here is the flaw in most peoples thinking of how it works. The 2nd right was given as a equalizer inbetween the people, and the goverment. But thru the years, thru muddled interpretations of the law, new laws, and unclear verbage in the laws, these rights have slowly been widdled away to what we have today. And whats wrong with this you might ask? Well, last time I checked, a rifle, a handgun, or a shotgun, will do nothing to the government who has ordered tanks, or missiles, to attack its own "disadents". And for all intensive purposes, we as gun toting Americans, have become that. Disadents and Terrorist because we might stand up for ourselfs, and what is right, or just.
Back in 1913, or maybe even earlier, the government, which was a entity for the people, to work FOR the people, and the people there-in, stopped. The people became the underlings of the federal coffer.
It has since been a gradual, and prodigous movement, to revoke all rights of the people.
I for one do not want to see an American Holocaust, or Genocide, as my rights, that are written to be un-alienable, are taken from me.
In recent history, strict gun laws have made it so that many MORE human lives have been lost. In Britain, and Austrailia, when a cop see's someone commiting a violent crime, he has 3 choices. 1) Say "STOP, or I will say STOP again" or 2) Call for a higher authority, and possibly watch someone die, as it will take, on average, 18 minutes for that higher "armed" authority to get there, assuming they arent already tied up with another issue or 3) RUN MO-FER!!!
Quite simply, it doesnt work.
If 1 person in the Aurora, CO movie theater masacre had been carrying, that might have meant alot less, or maybe even only 1, dead person. or it may have resulted in the same. We just dont know.
The answer to gun violence is a sane person to retort, or fend off, the gun weilding person.
I personally dont understand why their arent more armed, and carrying, persons in schools. Schools are a government run operation, and so is the Social Security office, the city/county/circuit/federal courts, police departments (city, county, state, or Federal), and a whole list of other buildings, and places. My problem here is that 1 of these places dont have armed security persons. Can you tell me which 1 that is?
When you, as a parent/grandparent/etc, drop off your mini prodige at your local school, whether it be a pre-school, grade school, middle school, high school, and even colleges, did you not expect him/her to get a good education, a decent meal, and to be protected from whatever may, or may not, invade that school? All parents are tasked with the responsibility, and the requirement of the law, of providing for, and protecting our kids. However, we cant sit in their classroom all day to verify its actually happening, or to add that extra measure of protection, it isnt allowed. And with most schools being "gun-free" what good would it do anyways?
And we still drop our kids off at the school everyday, without even having a concern or a care about it. Because this is what we expect? Try telling that to a parent of the Newtown school, or the Columbine school.
Now to the point of the second ammendment.. Here is the flaw in most peoples thinking of how it works. The 2nd right was given as a equalizer inbetween the people, and the goverment. But thru the years, thru muddled interpretations of the law, new laws, and unclear verbage in the laws, these rights have slowly been widdled away to what we have today. And whats wrong with this you might ask? Well, last time I checked, a rifle, a handgun, or a shotgun, will do nothing to the government who has ordered tanks, or missiles, to attack its own "disadents". And for all intensive purposes, we as gun toting Americans, have become that. Disadents and Terrorist because we might stand up for ourselfs, and what is right, or just.
Back in 1913, or maybe even earlier, the government, which was a entity for the people, to work FOR the people, and the people there-in, stopped. The people became the underlings of the federal coffer.
It has since been a gradual, and prodigous movement, to revoke all rights of the people.
I for one do not want to see an American Holocaust, or Genocide, as my rights, that are written to be un-alienable, are taken from me.
Bartonmd
Member
- Nov 20, 2011
- 545
Interestingly enough about the Aurora shooter, he didn't go to the closest theater to his house, and didn't go to the biggest movie theater that's about the same distance away as the one he shot up. He went to the only theater in the area where guns are illegal to carry (The city of Aurora is a "gun-free zone").
Mike
Mike
A couple of good ones that I saw today...
View attachment 25639
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
View attachment 25640
View attachment 25639
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
View attachment 25640
Attachments
I'm a bit disappointed in some of the responses. To qualify that statement I've been away since my last statement a week ago. I'm really thankful that the moderators have exercised a lot of patience and let this thread continue. But I'm also disappointed that it got to that point. I'd like to think that we could argue statistics and beat down the sources rather than beat down each other through personal attacks.Stop posting emotion and bring the tech.
While there is the inclination to post emotionally charged comments, it's a shame to respond to emotional reactions such as "ban everything" with equal responses.
The argument is very very simple. We have a tremendous amount of guns in this country. Think 10s of millions as a low point. Any sugestion of a buy back would bankrupt any state... NY has come right out and admitted it. As far as gun laws... CA has the most stringent... accordingly California had the highest number of gun murders last year - 1,790, which is 68% of all murders in 2012. Drastic gun laws and AWB don't work.
Australia and the EU has seen that confiscation doesn't work, best figures is that 20% complied. those bans started with registration and then ended with confiscation. Statistically your more likely to die in a plane crash than a mass shooting... although it's tragic it'sreally really rare. Of course it's less rare if you're in a "gun free zone".
While there is the inclination to post emotionally charged comments, it's a shame to respond to emotional reactions such as "ban everything" with equal responses.
The argument is very very simple. We have a tremendous amount of guns in this country. Think 10s of millions as a low point. Any sugestion of a buy back would bankrupt any state... NY has come right out and admitted it. As far as gun laws... CA has the most stringent... accordingly California had the highest number of gun murders last year - 1,790, which is 68% of all murders in 2012. Drastic gun laws and AWB don't work.
Australia and the EU has seen that confiscation doesn't work, best figures is that 20% complied. those bans started with registration and then ended with confiscation. Statistically your more likely to die in a plane crash than a mass shooting... although it's tragic it'sreally really rare. Of course it's less rare if you're in a "gun free zone".
Another good video found on Youtube that pertains directly to this thread. I'll try to link it. If it doesn't work just copy and paste. Maybe Bowtie can fix it again if I can't....
Watch what happens when Guns are banned in Australia
[video=youtube_share;W4tS0DGDf0I]http://youtu.be/W4tS0DGDf0I[/video]
Watch what happens when Guns are banned in Australia
[video=youtube_share;W4tS0DGDf0I]http://youtu.be/W4tS0DGDf0I[/video]
It scares the s
t out of me
One more peice for those out there that dont understand the meaning of the 2nd Amendment...
[video=youtube_share;1GNu7ldL1LM]http://youtu.be/1GNu7ldL1LM[/video]
[video=youtube_share;1GNu7ldL1LM]http://youtu.be/1GNu7ldL1LM[/video]
I haven't seen it mentioned here yet, but seriously, contact your reps. Just a simple short to the point letter. The NRA has a tool where you can put in your zip code and it'll find you rep. All you have to do is request they oppose the coming AWB bill.
HARDTRAILZ
Moderator
- Nov 18, 2011
- 49,665
And one more peice for those who think that a gun is not to be in a home, or used for self defense..
Fact, sitting on the phone with 911 does not stop that person from getting in your house, or attacking you..
Fact, listening to a 911 operator telling you that help will be there in a "few" minutes, will not stop a person from attacking you
Fact, the only good thing a 911 operator is good for is to record the call, as it will become your witness, and your savior..
Dont beleive me?
Let the audio of this video be your proof..
[video=youtube_share;-ExC7fE1LaY]http://youtu.be/-ExC7fE1LaY[/video]
Fact, sitting on the phone with 911 does not stop that person from getting in your house, or attacking you..
Fact, listening to a 911 operator telling you that help will be there in a "few" minutes, will not stop a person from attacking you
Fact, the only good thing a 911 operator is good for is to record the call, as it will become your witness, and your savior..
Dont beleive me?
Let the audio of this video be your proof..
[video=youtube_share;-ExC7fE1LaY]http://youtu.be/-ExC7fE1LaY[/video]
The specifics of the maniac in the movie theatre are here... snopes.com: Media Quiet About San Antonio Theater Shooting
It was widely unreported. I would go so far as to say it wasn't widely reported because it isn't news. As HARDTRAILZ pointed out, gun owners frequently defend others.
It was widely unreported. I would go so far as to say it wasn't widely reported because it isn't news. As HARDTRAILZ pointed out, gun owners frequently defend others.
v7guy said:
I would say it did not serve the media's purpose to cast guns in a bad light. The media all but ignores guns that are used in the proper way, saving lives, whether by an LEO or a private citizen. But they can't wait to get their claws into a story that can cast fear and outrage into the nation whenever the opportunity arises. And reporting these stories accurately is apparently not a requirement for the media either.
Let's make sure we report that the shooter had a semi-automatic rifle, even if he didn't use it. Heck, let's even call it a fully automatic rifle. We're the media, we don't know the difference! Nobody expects us to be experts on armament, we'll just make up what we don't know! It sounds good! It'll sell more newspapers!
It appears that reporting ALL the news, AS IT ACTUALLY HAPPENED is a lost art. Todays media has to put a spin on things so we will see it "their way". Walter Cronkite, Rest In Peace....
Short Bus
Member
- Dec 2, 2011
- 1,906
Please people, help fight the fight!!!! Wright a letter to your government officials, here's a great site to help.
Congress.org – Get informed, get involved
I'll even help with a letter that you can copy and paste
I am writing you today with the concern that, due to an unspeakable tragedy committed by a heinous individual intent on killing innocent people, my rights are coming under fire.
The Sandy Hook shooting is unquestionably an act of pure, inexcusable evil, that the pain and sorrow inflicted upon the families of the victims, as well as those in the community and nationally, will never fully heal or be understood. However, as unfortunate as the tragedy was, it is being used as a thinly veiled attempt to attack me and other law abiding citizens' rights under the guise of "safety".
The new legislation that is being discussed and spearheaded by Sen. Dianne Feinstein and other anti-gun representatives/pundits/politicians/lobbyists is in no way related to safety but to the disguised disarmament of the law abiding citizens of this country.
Banning any sort of weapon from a law abiding citizen does nothing to stop a criminal intent on committing heinous acts of evil.
Banning magazines of any arbitrarily chosen number of rounds from a law abiding citizen does nothing to stop a criminal intent on committing heinous acts of evil.
Introducing even more, unnecessary bans or limits to the law abiding citizen does nothing to stop a criminal intent on committing heinous acts of evil. The only thing bans and limitations do, is effectively neuter the law abiding citizen from defending themselves from those intent on committing heinous acts of evil. Criminals, by definition, are those who willfully decide to act outside of the established law. New bans and/or restrictions will do absolutely nothing to prevent the criminals from committing crimes. Again. It only affects the law abiding citizen.
As a law abiding citizen of the state that you represent, I fully expect you to thoughtfully respect and honor the wishes and freedoms granted upon myself, you and all the other law abiding citizens of this great country.
I will not stand for the personal agenda of Sen. Feinstein and a few other overzealous "representatives" being lobbied against me and my fellow law abiding citizens. I expect for you not to as well.
Thank you for your time regarding my concerns with this matter.
Congress.org – Get informed, get involved
I'll even help with a letter that you can copy and paste
I am writing you today with the concern that, due to an unspeakable tragedy committed by a heinous individual intent on killing innocent people, my rights are coming under fire.
The Sandy Hook shooting is unquestionably an act of pure, inexcusable evil, that the pain and sorrow inflicted upon the families of the victims, as well as those in the community and nationally, will never fully heal or be understood. However, as unfortunate as the tragedy was, it is being used as a thinly veiled attempt to attack me and other law abiding citizens' rights under the guise of "safety".
The new legislation that is being discussed and spearheaded by Sen. Dianne Feinstein and other anti-gun representatives/pundits/politicians/lobbyists is in no way related to safety but to the disguised disarmament of the law abiding citizens of this country.
Banning any sort of weapon from a law abiding citizen does nothing to stop a criminal intent on committing heinous acts of evil.
Banning magazines of any arbitrarily chosen number of rounds from a law abiding citizen does nothing to stop a criminal intent on committing heinous acts of evil.
Introducing even more, unnecessary bans or limits to the law abiding citizen does nothing to stop a criminal intent on committing heinous acts of evil. The only thing bans and limitations do, is effectively neuter the law abiding citizen from defending themselves from those intent on committing heinous acts of evil. Criminals, by definition, are those who willfully decide to act outside of the established law. New bans and/or restrictions will do absolutely nothing to prevent the criminals from committing crimes. Again. It only affects the law abiding citizen.
As a law abiding citizen of the state that you represent, I fully expect you to thoughtfully respect and honor the wishes and freedoms granted upon myself, you and all the other law abiding citizens of this great country.
I will not stand for the personal agenda of Sen. Feinstein and a few other overzealous "representatives" being lobbied against me and my fellow law abiding citizens. I expect for you not to as well.
Thank you for your time regarding my concerns with this matter.
blazinlow89
Member
- Jan 25, 2012
- 2,088
Janet Reno is a crazy bitch. My grandfather used to work for Voice of America and one of the reporters was talking to him before an interview with her. Neither of them knew she was within ear shot and they had been saying some choice words about her views of the world. My grandfather said her expression was pretty funny.
Also I have sent about 3 letters from different sites and signed a few petitions.
PS I recently found some info about Fienstein (sp), being a CCW holder. Seems like they have the do as I say, not as I do syndrome.
Also I have sent about 3 letters from different sites and signed a few petitions.
PS I recently found some info about Fienstein (sp), being a CCW holder. Seems like they have the do as I say, not as I do syndrome.
Short Bus
Member
- Dec 2, 2011
- 1,906
v7guy said:
It was a sad day for NY If some nut is going to shoot up a school that extra felony will do nothing to stop them. 7 round mags WTF!!! I'm glad I don't live in NY and will never visit, at least not without my tool of choice to protect me and my family. It's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6, or worse yet carrying a family member you could have saved.It is so hard for me to understand how these supposedly educated people can be so ignorant! Another felony charge added for people that carry a firearm on school grounds! You DUMASSES! The suspect left the house this morning knowing he is going to die! What is another felony charge going to do for that!?!? The crazies are laughing at this! They don't care! They are not going to be around for the trial.....
I know this probably sounds crazy to our lawmakers, but they would be better off REQUIRING that all CITIZENS(deemed sane and with a clear backround)over the age of 21 be properly trained and armed(concealed carry)at ALL times. Within a year criminals would be too afraid of being shot to commit a felonious crime. Criminals are not afraid of laws. Death row inmates sit in prison for 30 years before they are put to death. They stand a better chance of dying of old age than dying from an electric chair. If there was a threat of swift justice, that would get their attention. But the ones that plan on leaving this world in a hail of gunfire after commiting such heinious acts....well, I just can't help but want to help them along their way...
Maybe we should make all schools police substations. Taught from first grade, children would be familiar with law enforcement officers and perhaps not have the mistrust that is present now between adolescents and LEO's. And LEO's would be able to monitor behaviors in disturbed individuals at an early age, perhaps being able to get help for some that might otherwise fall into the cracks as some have obviously done.
I know this probably sounds crazy to our lawmakers, but they would be better off REQUIRING that all CITIZENS(deemed sane and with a clear backround)over the age of 21 be properly trained and armed(concealed carry)at ALL times. Within a year criminals would be too afraid of being shot to commit a felonious crime. Criminals are not afraid of laws. Death row inmates sit in prison for 30 years before they are put to death. They stand a better chance of dying of old age than dying from an electric chair. If there was a threat of swift justice, that would get their attention. But the ones that plan on leaving this world in a hail of gunfire after commiting such heinious acts....well, I just can't help but want to help them along their way...
Maybe we should make all schools police substations. Taught from first grade, children would be familiar with law enforcement officers and perhaps not have the mistrust that is present now between adolescents and LEO's. And LEO's would be able to monitor behaviors in disturbed individuals at an early age, perhaps being able to get help for some that might otherwise fall into the cracks as some have obviously done.
Short Bus said:
Within a year anything deemed an assault weapon even if owned before the ban is illegal... unless you register it, all 30 round mags regardless of date of manufacture illegal. Any semi auto that takes a detachable mag and has a pistol grip or thumbhole stock is an assault weapon and illegal. Any gun with more than a 7 round mag, illegal. How many guns have a seven round or less magazine available...3 or 4? Might as well carry a knife... oh wait, anything over 4" is illegal too. All ammo purchases have to go through a NCIS check too. WTF is going on in this country? Guess we'll see what "better gun control" does yet again.
I wonder what is waiting right around the corner for the rest of the country. I can only hope the firearm security acts being proposed in other states have a hope in hell of being passed and implemented. It's going to be an interesting year.
DucatiSS
Member
- Nov 19, 2011
- 369
Badbart said:
That is a fantastic idea. I like that, I don't know if you thought that one up or not, but I intend to spread the word within my inner circle.
What could it hurt? They already have the real estate. Move some files, hook up some computers, and it becomes a sub station. No need to run a full blown 911 center, just a place for paperwork and meetings.
I wrote this in response to someone who questioned me about guns.
I am not a criminal just because I own guns or knives. They are locked up and I am the only one with the key.
I am not a criminal just because I own bomb making material (gasoline, pipes, gun powder, nails, lighters, matches, and yes even fertilizer.) These are common household items.
I am not a criminal just because I own programs to get me into a computer when I do not know the password. These were created for computer admins so that when you forget your password I can get you back in without you losing all of your precious documents.
I am not a criminal just because I own or know how to write a computer virus. Some people collect Coke or Pepsi signs I just happen to collect viruses. They are on DVD's locked up and properly marked with red permanent marker do not use Viruses.
I am not a criminal because I have the military training to kill someone with various every day tools including a pen.
It is not the item that makes you the criminal but what you do with said item that can make you a criminal. So please do not label me as a criminal.
I am not a criminal just because I own guns or knives. They are locked up and I am the only one with the key.
I am not a criminal just because I own bomb making material (gasoline, pipes, gun powder, nails, lighters, matches, and yes even fertilizer.) These are common household items.
I am not a criminal just because I own programs to get me into a computer when I do not know the password. These were created for computer admins so that when you forget your password I can get you back in without you losing all of your precious documents.
I am not a criminal just because I own or know how to write a computer virus. Some people collect Coke or Pepsi signs I just happen to collect viruses. They are on DVD's locked up and properly marked with red permanent marker do not use Viruses.
I am not a criminal because I have the military training to kill someone with various every day tools including a pen.
It is not the item that makes you the criminal but what you do with said item that can make you a criminal. So please do not label me as a criminal.
DucatiSS said:
I was a school resource officer for about four years during my law enforcement career. I learned a lot being around the young people. It's a very satisfying job when you can get these kids to open up and overcome the instilled fears that they harbor. It's also very disheartening at times when you realize that not all kids had the same upbringing that you or I did. Many have single parent families, some have bad parents. The biggest issue is that there are only so many hours in a day to work with these kids, then they go home to no one that really cares. And there are so few teachers and role models at the schools in comparison to the students. Each teacher has 20 or more kids and they're on a timeline with the curriculum, not a lot of time to spend individually. But as a deputy I could interview a lot of the at-risk kids and build a rapport. It's more than just being there for their protection.
Short Bus
Member
- Dec 2, 2011
- 1,906
v7guy said:
That is so a lot of stores will quit selling ammo, it'll just be more of a PITA than it's worth to them.
Mods free free to delete this link if it goes to far into politics, but please leave the rest of the post.
Steve Stockman Threatens To Impeach Obama Over Gun Control Push
- May 22, 2012
- 5,596
Short Bus said:
Ya that happened here in Kitchener last year. Here's the article from the local paper. Gun leading to dad .
A teacher that thought she was doing the right thing. Ha Ha, A teacher that thought she was doing the right thing!!!!
meerschm said:
I'm more surprised that you would say WTF to someone suggesting parents have a gun. Nothing other than a gun will level the playing field when a large intruder comes to attack your wife and kids... especially if they have a crowbar.
‘My Wife Is a Hero’: Georgia Mother Shoots Home Intruder Five Times After Being Cornered in Attic | Video | TheBlaze.com
That man was shot 5 times and still ran away and drove down the block. 5 shots wasn't enough, he was still mobile. I would rather my family have the ability to positively stop an invader instead of getting tied up, beat, raped, and killed.
what's happened legislatively in NY is infuriating.
HARDTRAILZ
Moderator
- Nov 18, 2011
- 49,665