Woke up today & P1345!

[MichEnvoyGuy]

I went to replace my battery today, as I do every 2.5 years under Sams Club warranty When I went to move the truck closer to my garage, my SES light was on For the record, my SES light has only come on 1 other time in the 7 years Ive owned it!

Scanned and it was 2 instances of P1345 - camshaft to crankshaft sensor malfunction. I went to Advance Auto Parts and bought a camshaft sensor since I read that does go bad. To my dismay, my camshaft sensor - the one under the front of the valve cover - was loose! I replaced it anyway. Cleared the code, started it up and the codes came right back.

So I removed my CPAS, I have never removed it before, the screens were all very clean and everything looked good. Lots of oil in the connector though. Cleaned it up with q-tips & electronics cleaner, cleared the code and it came right back.

Does this mean my CPAS went bad? Which of the major parts stores sell the CPAS?

 

[MichEnvoyGuy]

Well like I said I replaced the camshaft position sensor and the code came right back. Went to O'reilly and they had the CPAS for ~$60, dorman w/LT warranty. Just replaced it and the code hasnt come back but Im going to wait another hour and cold start it again and see. If this doesnt solve it I guess the only thing left would be the crank sensor

Another question, when I replaced my camshaft position sensor, there was a little copper looking glitter over the end that goes into the cylinder head. I could pick it off with my fingernail. Could that have been from the bad CPAS or is something else wearing out on me?

EDIT: I replace the camshaft sensor & the CPAS today... Now Im getting a pending P0014!! I was watching my timing advance on my scantool and its all over the place...from 14* all the way up to 60*. It didnt do this before. Did I get bit by the Dorman CPAS bug?

 

[MichEnvoyGuy]

Seems dead in here today but as long as Im entertaining myself I guess thats all that matters
Good news & (Possible) bad news for me.

I searched high and low, found the GM diag for the VEVT on our 4.2l engine. I replaced the actuator and the camshaft sensor, although looking back it probably didnt need it. However I am still getting the P1345 & P0014 despite erasing the codes. My timing advance is all over the place. Sometimes it stays low and varies between 8* and 20* and other times the timing advance is up in the 50* range and pegs at 60* advance

Even though Ive run synthetic since I bought the truck and the CPAS screens were clean, indicating at least to me that the engine is clean - I am guessing my actual cam phaser is sticking and is going bad. The possible failure probably has little to do with the oil I used and how I took it easy the last 153,000 miles but probably just a part going bad on its own accord. THATS the bad news.

To rule out the valvoline synthetic 5w/30 that Ive had in there for under 5000 miles (I usually go 6000 until I change although two oil analysis have both recommended going a lot longer), Im changing it right now. Damn shame, it still looks good. Its light brown but still clear you can see through it, if that makes any sense. The last oil change I used a Delco oil filter, Im going to use another one and this time use Quaker State syn 5w/30. This is the good news. Hoping the oil change might somehow solve my issue.

Changing the oil was one of GM's recommendations when these DTC's happen. Im going to change the oil and if that doesnt solve it, to the dealer it goes

 

[gmcman]

Your timing will jump all over the place, more evident at idle. The copper shavings are concerning as my first guess would be bearing material.

When you say the timing is all over, is this at idle or driving?

Your P0014 code could be from a poor connection, check for broken wires or just a faulty sensor. Anything sensor related I crawl backwards into the dealer....I just don't trust the aftermarket sensors and I hate buying them twice.

 

[MichEnvoyGuy]

Your timing will jump all over the place, more evident at idle. The copper shavings are concerning as my first guess would be bearing material.

When you say the timing is all over, is this at idle or driving?

Yeah, it looks like gold glitter and its very very fine. There isnt much of it, I doubt even if I took a picture it would convey the amount because its so fine. Could that be coming from the phaser? I only found it on the camshaft sensor itself, the CPAS screens were very clean. So wherever it came from, it didnt go far and it seems to have originated right by the camshaft sensor area of the engine. I changed the oil last night, it wasnt even dirty. What a waste. No glitter came out of the oil that I could see and I probably looked like a crazy person to my neighbors examining a drain bucket full of motor oil with a flashlight at 10pm...lol

And the timing is allllll over the place when I drive. In idle it seems to be OK hovering around 12-16* advance. However if I accelerate and then let go of the gas (coast), the timing will peg at 60* advance! And sometimes just for a few seconds or as long as 15 seconds. This will eventually trigger the P0014, along with the P1345 I already have.

Ive read about peoples trucks stalling when they coast to a stop when they have this problem and I see why...lol...however aside from having no VVT power at all 3500rpms and beyond, you wouldnt be able to tell anything is wrong at all. Well, it might be alittle noisier than usual and Im not sure but I think I can feel a slight performance loss when I accelerate.
Ive been searching google day and night and found a kickass write up over at the old site with pictures! If I can find the timing tools locally, I might be able to handle this myself. But Im going to call around today to see how much an engine shop experienced with timing chains and stuff would charge. I can even bring them the phaser from GM if they want.

 

[gmcman]

And the timing is allllll over the place when I drive. In idle it seems to be OK hovering around 12-16* advance. However if I accelerate and then let go of the gas (coast), the timing will peg at 60* advance! And sometimes just for a few seconds or as long as 15 seconds. This will eventually trigger the P0014, along with the P1345 I already have.

I have driven with my scan tool watching the timing and it does the same as yours, I can't imaging that is what's causing any CEL but could be wrong.

No glitter came out of the oil that I could see and I probably looked like a crazy person to my neighbors examining a drain bucket full of motor oil with a flashlight at 10pm...lol

If anyone walks by just look at them like a crazy person and shout...."This stuff is over a grand an ounce!!......Back off!"

Something else that likely is the reason for the erratic timing readings when closing the throttle is these TB's don't close all the way when you let off the throttle...possibly to provide a less jerky situation when driving.

The TPS value you will notice when closing the throttle when driving will go down to a set value near 20% or so, then slowly close more after a few seconds.

 

[MichEnvoyGuy]

I have driven with my scan tool watching the timing and it does the same as yours, I can't imaging that is what's causing any CEL but could be wrong.

Well the P0014 code keeps popping up saying that the timing is overadvanced. So your timing advance is all over the place too? Hmmmm....

If anyone walks by just look at them like a crazy person and shout...."This stuff is over a grand an ounce!!......Back off!"

LMAO!!!

Something else that likely is the reason for the erratic timing readings when closing the throttle is these TB's don't close all the way when you let off the throttle...possibly to provide a less jerky situation when driving.

The TPS value you will notice when closing the throttle when driving will go down to a set value near 20% or so, then slowly close more after a few seconds.

Interesting. I will look at that.

Ok guys, the only thing I have not replaced is my crank sensor. And the P1345 code states that there is a crank sensor to cam sensor correlation issue. In other words, the timing is out according to the sensors. I hate to throw the crank sensor at it if it isnt the problem. The GM dealer wants $90 to diagnose - Im considering bringing it in today for a diagnosis and if it IS the actual camshaft sprocket mounted phaser, having them replace it OR if its the crank sensor or something else, I will do it.

IF I go and buy a crank sensor and replace it, I have to do a CASE relearn so isnt there a manual procedure I can use? I though I remembered reading about a 7 or 8 step process where you can accelerate/decelerate, etc... to do a CASE relearn manually?

 

[MichEnvoyGuy]

So if this isnt my luck than I dont know what it is I replaced the crank sensor. The old one was really crudded up. I figured "this is it!" Nope. It just made the codes come back faster now....LOL! Maybe the new cam & crank sensors are newer and quicker..I dont know but the codes pop right back up immediately as opposed to taking 15 minutes to pop up before And when I was replacing the crank sensor through the wheelwell, I must've disturbed the ABS wiring b/c now my "ABS" light is on ....AHHHHHHHHH!!! I want to scream right about now.

Ive replaced the cam sensor, crank sensor, and CPAS and still getting a P1345 & P0014. Actually getting 2 instances of the P1345 and 1 of the P0014. Everytime I clear it with my Equus it comes back within a few minutes. It has to be the actual VVT actuator drum inside the engine. Has to be.

I ended up dropping it off at my friendly local GMC shop to have diagnosed for $90. Who knows, if they come back with a price under $800 to do the cam actuator, valve cover gaskets & intake gaskets, I might just drop those dimes If its more than $800 or so, Im going to bite the bullet and start accumulating the J-44127 tools (need two), gasket sets, and the actuator. I will update this thread as soon as I hear back from the dealer.

 

[fishguy1123]

Good luck with it! I hope it's not as bad as u think it will be....

 

[MichEnvoyGuy]

Dealership called, they said to replace the VVT actuator inside the engine $1050 He said that 'for sure' is bad. But then the tech said at my mileage (153000) its likely I will need a timing chain and tensioner too...that catapults the price up to $2000

I told the guy for $2000 I'd put in a low mile used engine and Im pretty sure the timing chain is ok b/c its never made any noise nor have I had any problems prior to this.
Im thinking this might be a job Im going to tackle. Does anybody have an Alldata DIY membership that they'd be so generous to copy and paste the steps for the camshaft actuator replacement? Im going to use a thread I found at the old site and if I cant find the shop directions, I guess Ill have to buy a one year membership to alldata.

 

[MichEnvoyGuy]

Going to pick up the truck in a bit. Dealer is charging me $48 for diagnostic, after all.

I called my friend who is a GM parts guy at a different dealer and got the actuator ($102), valve cover gasket set ($14) and intake gaskets ($8). All of the parts were at or below cost :wootwoot: It will all be in tomorrow morning.

Next up: I need a set of J-44217 timing chain tools. Ive called a few parts shops and nobody has them to loan or for sale. Any suggestions?

 

[gmcman]

I still don't like the copper colored shavings, I say if you are pulling the valve cover to replace what you can in there...you may find other things damaged...hope not.

There is someone over on 355 who had a set of cams built for the I6 at a pretty penny but it's worth looking into. Granted the 02 heads don't flow as good as the newer heads but you are half way there labor wise.

Heck, find a head from an 06 or newer and a set of custom cams apparently return roughly 50 HP, not sure about the exhaust but surely you would need a manifold.

Sorry man, my gears get turning when I think of upgrades. Just let us know when you get the cover off.

 

[MichEnvoyGuy]

I still don't like the copper colored shavings, I say if you are pulling the valve cover to replace what you can in there...you may find other things damaged...hope not.

There is someone over on 355 who had a set of cams built for the I6 at a pretty penny but it's worth looking into. Granted the 02 heads don't flow as good as the newer heads but you are half way there labor wise.

Heck, find a head from an 06 or newer and a set of custom cams apparently return roughly 50 HP, not sure about the exhaust but surely you would need a manifold.

Sorry man, my gears get turning when I think of upgrades. Just let us know when you get the cover off.

Well its been a crazy day for me. Just got the truck back. I wonder if its bad to drive it like this for a few days, the exhaust 'sounds' hot after I get out of the truck although my temperature according to my handheld is 190f. I can only imagine what having 60* timing advance is doing to the exhaust mixture though When I have driven it, Ive taken it real easy (you have to and trust me on this- when you lose your VVT on this engine, you WILL notice it, its a total dog now). It feels like Im towing a trailer, very gut-less.

I brought all 3 of the old sensors and gave them to the service guy at the dealership. His response to the cam sensor was that it is slightly magnetic and I should be thankful it doesnt have more material in it after 153,000 miles, lol. He didnt think it was any issue. FWIW earlier this morning, I cut open my oil filter from yesterdays emergency oil change and there was no metal flakes in the pleats at all.

Anyway, the parts are going to be in tomorrow. I need to get my hands on the Kent-Moore J-44217 tools. NOBODY local has them or has ever heard of them, they act like Im speaking jibberish. As soon as I can get a set of the J-44217 I will start tearing into stuff. Any suggestions on the tools?

To top it off, not only did my ABS light come on today after I replaced the crank sensor, but my right brake light burnt out!! I dont know what I did to piss off the T360 gods this week....

 

[MichEnvoyGuy]

Picked up the parts today. The cam actuator is HEAVIER than I thought it would be, its a big chunk of metal. And direct from GM its remanufactured. Geesh, cant even get a new one. $100 core charge too!

All in all, I now have in my possession the intake gaskets, the valve cover gaskets & spark plug well gaskets, and the actuator. Do I have to replace the little grommets on the valve cover bolts when I do the valve cover job? The kit didnt come with those.

Also, has anybody out there done this job before or know anything about the actuator? The reason I ask is the manual strictly states several times to install the new actuator in the full advance position, and that the actuator should come that way from GM. You can put it to full advance by turning it clockwise. I tried to turn mine and it wont move-I dont want to assume anything. The manual states 'engine damage may occur if actuator isnt installed in the full advance position'

Funny side note. One of my fb friends works at a dealership network that includes a few GM stores. I asked him if he could get the tools for me (the j-44217 timing chain retainers). He asked the head mechanic at one of the GM service departments and the guy told him that I was crazy for doing the job myself, its 14-17 hours I told my friend his "head mechanic" must be the slowest mechanic Ive ever heard of. He told my friend that taking the intake and valve cover off itself will take 5-7 hours. Any guesses on who I wont be asking for help in the future?! lol

 

[neelskit]

A couple years ago (about the same mileage as your truck) I was having the same issue. I took it to the dealer who told me the same thing- the actuator was bad. I hadn't heard of anyone on the OS having to replace the actuator itself, so I sought a second opinion from a trusted independent mechanic. He found the CPAS wiring harness was intermittent. He spliced in a new harness and 20,000 miles later still going strong. I'm at 170,000 miles currently.

 

[MichEnvoyGuy]

A couple years ago (about the same mileage as your truck) I was having the same issue. I took it to the dealer who told me the same thing- the actuator was bad. I hadn't heard of anyone on the OS having to replace the actuator itself, so I sought a second opinion from a trusted independent mechanic. He found the CPAS wiring harness was intermittent. He spliced in a new harness and 20,000 miles later still going strong. I'm at 170,000 miles currently.

I had my truck in the dealership Monday for a diagnosis. I wish that was my problem. When they commanded the CPAS to adjust the timing with the TECH II, it advanced but did not retard back. They concluded it was locked at full advance. The CPAS is new.

Trust me, I wish it was the wiring harness!!

 

[MichEnvoyGuy]

Update:

To anybody keeping up on this (lol), I brought my 'Voy to my friend Paul tonight...he a mechanic at a Caddy dealer and has his own TECH II. For a shamrock shake for him and his wife, he hooked up the TECH II and started diagnosing. I didnt know this but Paul used to work at an Olds dealer. He went through extensive training on the I-6 when it first came out!! In addition, hes replaced a few actuators before too on the I-6. Score!! He knows more about the VVT system than I could ever pretend to read on the web. Right away, he didnt think it was the actuator itself. He was saying it could be a stretched timing chain. We were idling in front of his house and he was commanding the CPAS to all kinds of timing positions and it was working at idle. So he was like "nothings wrong". Until we went for a little drive with the TECH II hooked up

Btw, if you've never experienced the amazing-ness of a TECH II, please do so before you die so you can at least die happy

There are a few fields of data in the CPAS field in the TECH II. 1 is the requested timing position per the PCM. Another is the ACTUAL timing recorded by the cam sensor/crank sensor. The third is the variance between the two.

At idle, my requested timing retard from the PCM was 0*, actual was 0* and the variance was of course, 0.

When we started driving, the requested timing started rising slowly. At around 25mph, the PCM was requesting 4* of timing retard. The actual was 6*, the variance was 2*. 2* isnt life or death really, in cam timing terms, right?

However as speed and RPM's picked up, the actual timing started building and building and building against the REQUESTED timing. By the time we hit 50mph on the road, the variance of what the PCM was requesting and what the actual timing was, was a 24* difference!!

Alas, my timing chain is fine, for sure my actuator went bad. It went completely rogue on me Also Paul let me know something I wouldnt have known otherwise- my ABS light came on the same day I replaced my crank sensor and I thought I disturbed the ABS sensor wiring in the wheelwell. However, the TECH II revealed its my right ABS sensor that is open. Actually it had 3 codes - right frt wheel sensor erratic, right frt wheel sensor open, and right frt sensor no data. I bet any money the speed sensor wire got chafed up again Either way, its small potatoes right now compared to my actuator job.

Waiting on the tools, should be here friday. Then I start disassembly. You'll be hearing from me again later this week!

 

[Mooseman]

Good info on diagnosing this system. Definitely want to keep tabs on your progress as I am staring at the exact same problem.

 

[MichEnvoyGuy]

Ok here is my plan: I got the J-44217 tools in the mail yday, so I got home from work today, pulled the truck right in the garage and started.

First I removed the easy stuff- the air box, throttle body, alternator, A/C line brackets, PCM and bracketry. Btw, the PCM bracket was a major PITA.

Then with all of the great tips Ive received, I went to town on the intake manifold. The rear firewall bolt was a piece of cake, after knowing about it and using my swivel Getting the intake OUT of the engine bay was a massive pain. I mean I thought for SURE I was going to crack the thing. I could not get both of the fuel lines off. I bought the fuel line disconnect tools and was able to take the one line off that goes to the fuel press. reg. but the other one wouldnt disconnect So I had to fight the other line when I was removing the intake manifold.

Next I loosened the valve cover bolts. Had a friend hold up the A/C line & wiring loom that goes across the valve cover and I pulled straight forward. EVERYTHING that could possibly hang up did. Unfortunately and ironically, my CPAS wiring harness was the victim, I forgot to disconnect it and the wires pulled out. I suppose I can re-wire it until I order a new one though.

My valve train is soooo clean for 153,000 miles!!! Im very impressed. I guess thats what using synthetic oil for the last 8 years will get ya

View attachment 19078

Few questions to those who have removed their valve cover & intake manifold before.. How the heck did you get the valve cover in and out? I pulled the valve cover forward. But it fought with me and hung up on so much stuff I cannot see how I will be able to get it back on with the new gaskets staying in place

Also, is the same fuel disconnect tool used for BOTH of the fuel rail fuel lines? The smaller line came right off with the special tool but the larger line will not budge.

How did you get the intake manifold back in? I had to really twist and basically pry it out of the engine bay. Again, I cannot see getting it back in that manner without jarring the new gaskets loose

 

[gmcman]

I believe you need to get the A/C line out of the way a little more and the cover should lift off alot easier. I cannot add to the R&R of the actuator but with the cover off I would surely check the clearances of the valves and even try to measure the lift of each lobe with a dial indicator. You can generally pick up a magnetic base model pretty cheap.

 

[MichEnvoyGuy]

Victory is mine! :wootwoot:

Got the old actuator out, fair warning - the hex bolt that holds the actuator on to the cam is on TIGHT from the factory. I had to put a pipe on the end of my rachet and hold the camshaft with a big crescent wrench (Theres a part on the cam where its made to slip a wrench over).
The old actuator didnt look bad. It wasnt like the others who have posted that it was cocked or the word "Delphi" wasnt flat with the head.
Thats fine b/c my problem was when the truck was running, the camshaft retard/advance was all over the place. At idle it was fine. So I halfway didnt expect it to be 'off'.
Some observations:
My old actuator turns counterclockwise very easy by hand, the new one doesnt turn easily at all.

All in all, getting the actuator OFF was the easiest part of this whole gig. However, the stress of the timing chain falling had me so sick I had to run inside to the john twice...lol. Nothing like a little 't360 anxiety' to keep you on your toes

Finding TDC was interesting. I havent done that since I was 16-17 on a car. However, the camshaft actuator has a peg out the back; you'd have to try really hard to put it on wrong, it only goes on one way!! You really have to make sure the cams dont get out of time is the bottom line because the actuator, you cannot screw up. I put a screwdriver into the #1 spark plug hole and also paid close attention to the cam flats.

More updates to come, I took a ton of pictures, I will upload them later. My hands look like I was in a fight with a feral cat. And I WAS wearing mechanics gloves!!

View attachment 19101

 

[fishguy1123]

Nice work man!

 

[MichEnvoyGuy]

Good news or bad news first?

Well lets start with the Good. The truck went back together nicely and with the exception of a P0300 (stupid me forgot a coil plug), it runs nicely.

Bad news: After a road test, P1345 & P0014 came back!!
I dont know what to do next. Ive replaced the crank sensor, cam sensor, CPAS, AND actuator!!!

The timing chain wasnt super taut when I was replacing the actuator, but it wasnt loose by any means. I cant imagine I have a timing chain that is stretched. The other possibilities Ive read are even scarier- bad crank bearings that allow the crank to have too much end play resulting in bad crank timing readings I dont even want to go there...

Any suggestions? I dont seem to have much power, it feels almost like the cat is plugging up. Im on the original cat with 153,000 miles. Could a cat going bad cause a P1345 or P0014? ((grasping at straws, I know))

I also find it highly coincidental that the same day the p1345 and p0014 triggered my SES light, my ABS light came on with a right wheel sensor no data. Is there a wiring loom with the crank sensor/ABS wiring that may have chafed? Is there a pin-out from the PCM wiring to the crank and cam sensors somewhere?

 

[MichEnvoyGuy]

Last night I took the 02 sensor out and drove around. I did have alittle more power but I was still bogging down/pulling the P0014 & P1345

Im going to buy a DELCO CPAS tomorrow and return the Dorman CPAS, and replace the connector with a new one. Other than that, I have no friggin idea what the problem is, but I fear it could be something much more sinister than the CPAS. Im hoping not but I have been getting a squeaking noise coming from the engine upon cold start. Theres a TSB saying that a squeaking noise accompanying a p0014/p1345 could be caused from the crank having too much end play and the thrust washers wearing out I thought it was my water pump squeaking so I took the belt off today and started it up, no squeak. Put the belt on and no squeak. Crap! I expected the truck to squeak when the belt was on but it didnt do either, but it normally does!

I find it strange that the cam timing, which is causing the P0014, is fine and the CPAS works as designed when commanded by the TECH II. However, once you start raising the RPM's past 1,750rpms, the timing starts advancing itself all the way up to 24*. I can see a crank issue causing the timing correlation to be a few degrees off, but what would cause it to build to 24* and then once you return to idle, it goes back to 0* advance?? It sounds like the CPAS isnt doing its job but when commanded by the TECH II, it does. I even swapped the PCM with the one PCM4less shipped me, hoping it was a PCM internal fault. Nope, still have the problem.

 

[Mooseman]

Did you have a CASE relearn done using the TechII? It has to be done whenever anything in the two sensors or the actuator is touched.

 

[MichEnvoyGuy]

Did you have a CASE relearn done using the TechII? It has to be done whenever anything in the two sensors or the actuator is touched.

Yeah, when I went and visited Paul the other day (Thursday) he did the CASE relearn. We sat in the truck, he pressed some buttons on the TECH II and then revved the engine real high.

Im going to meter the CPAS wiring..how much volts should be at the POS+ wire?

 

[gmcman]

Exit the vehicle, go to the fridge, acquire favorite beverage and take a deep breath.

With normal fluid changes I cannot imagine the crank sliding around at 150K. I would get the AC cam sensor and put the O2 sensor back in, not having it in there can only add to your frustration. Go get an exhaust backpressure test done at a muffler shop to possibly eliminate the cat.

Are you looking at cam timing or ignition timing when above 1750 RPM? Are you absolutely sure you installed the cams in the correct orientation? I would pull a vacuum line and check the vacuum at idle, ensure the needle is steady. A fluctuating needle could signify a partially open valve.

Did the engine run smooth but only a code prior to the actuator replacement?

Wanted to add....how did you reconnect the damaged connector? If you crimped them you need to make extra, extra, extra, extra sure you have clean wires and a good, tight crimp...I would actually clean them up with a spray cleaner and solder them. Dealer tried to crimp my TB connector that was cut and after a couple hours realized one wire had a bad crimp. My GM buddy has seen countless problems with re-crimped connectors, just a heads up on that.

 

[The_Roadie]

Im going to meter the CPAS wiring..how much volts should be at the POS+ wire?

Looks like the low side black wire is grounded (actually a low reference, which is a "high quality" ground supplied by the PCM, not directly a frame ground). The high side brown wire is switched on and off to +12 with a PWM signal to command the timing. So if you observe the brown wire with a meter on DC, you should see a varying voltage from 0 to 12V depending on the proportion of time that the PWM signal spends at 12V relative to zero.

See how the average signal varies in this diagram. An oscilloscope can display the swiftly-moving signal, but motors, can phasers, and meters can't follow fast enough so they serve to average (smooth) the signal out, since it's going up and down usually 200-400 times a second.

View attachment 19149

 

[MichEnvoyGuy]

Exit the vehicle, go to the fridge, acquire favorite beverage and take a deep breath.

With normal fluid changes I cannot imagine the crank sliding around at 150K. I would get the AC cam sensor and put the O2 sensor back in, not having it in there can only add to your frustration. Go get an exhaust backpressure test done at a muffler shop to possibly eliminate the cat.

Are you looking at cam timing or ignition timing when above 1750 RPM? Are you absolutely sure you installed the cams in the correct orientation? I would pull a vacuum line and check the vacuum at idle, ensure the needle is steady. A fluctuating needle could signify a partially open valve.

Did the engine run smooth but only a code prior to the actuator replacement?

If you look at the pics of my valve cover (first time removed EVER), it was really clean. Heck, there was NOTHING on the screens of my original CPAS!! Oil was leaking out at an alarming rate from the original CPAS, but thats about it. I cant imagine the crank having excessive play either. I have always used synthetic oil, never went over 7000 miles per synthetic oil change, and never have beat on the truck.

Prior to this issue, the SES light came on with P1345 & P0014. I replaced the CPAS, disc. battery, light off, 10 minutes later light back on with both codes. Replaced crank & cam sensors. Disc battery, CASE relearn, light back on 10 minutes later with same codes again. Replaced cam actuator itself.... you see where Im going with this..

We were looking at the CAM timing on the TECH II the other night. At idle, the requested timing was 0* degrees. When you hit the gas, and went past 1700 RPMs, the ACTUAL timing started to climb, as if it was running out of control, even though the requested timing from the PCM was still 0* degrees. By the time we got to 2500RPMs, the actual timing was 24* degrees past the requested.

Strange thing is, the Dorman CPAS I have in there has oil in the plug already But it DID respond to the TECH II when we increased the cam timing and retarded it. According to the TECH II, my exhaust camshaft timing is changing itself. Could that Dorman CPAS be causing this? Even though Ive replaced my CAM & Crank sensors, could the wires to either be shorted causing an erroneous reading to the PCM?

I know the Dorman CPAS's arent very reliable. Im going to drop the $50 or whatever it is tomorrow and get a DELCO CPAS direct from the dealer AND a new wiring connector for the CPAS.

As far as the cam timing, Im 100% positive it was dead nuts on. Its not hard to do at all on the I6. Actually, I got all anxious for nothing. You cannot put the actuator on wrong; it has a peg out the backside that plugs unto the cam and theres only 1 spot on the cam for it to line up. Plus, my cam flats were both pointing up, which is how GM tells you to align the cams.

Bottom line is, I cannot see a stretched timing chain OR bad crankshaft causing the timing to increase slowly, degree by degree once you hit 1750RPMs maxing out at 24* variance between what the PCM is commanding and what is actual. Wouldnt a bad crank or a stretched timing chain, the timing would be off right away and by a few degrees maybe, NOT starting at 1750RPM's and not starting at 0* and working its way to 24* off??

Regarding the damaged connector, I pushed the wires back in and it accepted them. Im going to replace the connector too because I dont trust it and its completely oil soaked, even the wires are soft and mushy. I dont crimp connections, Im a master solderer! When I get the new connector, I will be soldering it and heat shrink tubing it.

Roadie: That diagram makes no sense to me at all....lol.. so you are saying the black wire should be ground and the brown is 12v?

 

[The_Roadie]

Roadie: That diagram makes no sense to me at all....lol.. so you are saying the black wire should be ground and the brown is 12v?

The black wire is ground. The brown wire is sometimes ground and sometimes 12V, switching up and down faster than your eye or your meter could see. The diagram is like you would see on an oscilloscope, an instrument we engineers use every day to see things that happen too fast for the eye to observe. They don't give any familiarity with oscilloscopes anymore in high school physics?

If you put a meter on the brown wire, it will read somewhere between 0 and 12V, depending on how much advance is commanded by the PCM.

 

[MichEnvoyGuy]

Thanks Roadie, I will try and see if I get any kind of signal.

In the meantime, would a Dorman CPAS cause this kind of issue? Its got oil in the connector already and I just installed it last week!

If any of you care, I have a bunch of pictures you can see.... I took a ton of pics during the whole process. I will be adding more too:

http://s1265.photobucket.com/albums/jj511/technologic80/

 

[MichEnvoyGuy]

Stopped by my buddys house this morning and we did another CASE relearn with his TECH II.
I thought everything was good b/c for 10 minutes or so of driving after nothing came back up on the code reader!! Could it possibly be, that was the issue!?!

Nope. Both the P1345 and P0014 came back into pending (2 instances of P0014!) right after that

Going around noon to pick up a DELCO CPAS and a new connector.

 

[gmcman]

Just a hunch but when you perform the CASE relearn, is your buddy clearing all the stored codes?

I assume he as and I would think you need to but figured I would ask.

 

[MichEnvoyGuy]

Just a hunch but when you perform the CASE relearn, is your buddy clearing all the stored codes?

I assume he as and I would think you need to but figured I would ask.

Yeah, he clears the codes each time hes hooked up the TECH II - sometimes clearing the codes multiple times (b/c they keep coming back). I also have an EQUUS 3130 that I clear the codes with on my own.

Just picked up my new DELCO CPAS and wiring harness. Got them at cost (score!)...my friend Dave rocks. $37 for the CPAS and $18 for the GM wiring harness. In comparison, I paid $65 for the Dorman CPAS at O'Reilly :wootwoot: I found the wiring harness at NAPA for $28. So Im happy at least, to save a bunch of bucks. Last time I went, he saved me $100 on the actuator itself and the gaskets, I got him a fifth of Gentleman Jack It definitely pays to have a friend in the parts department!!

 

[gmcman]

Awesome....I would solder then heatshrink, but it just make sure it's a very good crimp.

 

[MichEnvoyGuy]

Awesome....I would solder then heatshrink, but it just make sure it's a very good crimp.

Thats the great news- Im a master at soldering!! And I have a variety of heatshrink tubes that are marine grade (when I install electrical things on the boat, I do everything marine grade!).
Im going to open the wiring loom and go back as far as I can with the new wiring harness, as the new harness comes with what seems like 10" of wire.

The CPAS wiring I have on there right now, my first observation is the wires are tiny. Second, they are permeated with oil. They feel mushy and are all bent in every which position. Even if I didnt pull the wires out of the connector, I was planning on replacing it anyway due to those reasons.

 

[gmcman]

Just another double-check...granted, I haven't seen under these covers so I'm just throwing this out there as well....when you attached the mechanism to the cam, and it had to be set at full advance, did you turn it against the rotation? Which would be advance, have known a lot of peeps to think forward of rotation is advance when in case that would be to retard.

Just making sure.

At least that's how I believe this one works...I could be wrong.

 

[MichEnvoyGuy]

Just another double-check...granted, I haven't seen under these covers so I'm just throwing this out there as well....when you attached the mechanism to the cam, and it had to be set at full advance, did you turn it against the rotation? Which would be advance, have known a lot of peeps to think forward of rotation is advance when in case that would be to retard.

Just making sure.

At least that's how I believe this one works...I could be wrong.

The mechanism comes from GM at full advance so you dont have to do anything to it. However, I wanted to be sure so I tested by twisting it. GM warns strongly not to force it when its at advance already or it can damage the stop tab. And fully advanced is at the full clockwise position.

(Copy and pasted this from the GM service manual):
Notice: The camshaft actuator must be fully advanced during installation. Engine damage may occur if the camshaft actuator is not fully advanced. Important: Ensure the camshaft actuator is rotated clockwise relative to the camshaft prior to tightening the bolt. Do not force the camshaft actuator to rotate clockwise. If it does not move easily, it is already fully advanced. New camshaft actuators are already packaged in the fully advanced (clockwise) position.

 

[MichEnvoyGuy]

That is how I feel right now

I got home from work today, raced home (well not exactly raced; you have NO idea what these trucks feel like without the VVT, total slowpoke!), and replaced the Dorman POS CPAS with a nice new DELCO one. I also wired in a new CPAS wiring pigtail. I went as far back as I could, soldered it, and shrinktubed it. This was my last ditch effort to solve my P1345 & P0014 codes (Crank/Cam mismatch correlation error & Timing overadvanced).

Cleared the 2 instances of P0014 and went for a ride.

First observation is best described with emoticons :wootwoot:

My VVT is back and its baaaaaaaddd to the bone I could tell right away. The truck sounded quieter, accelerated smoother, and when I hit it....WHAMMMMM there she goes!

I drove it around for a good 40 minutes, shut the truck off 4x (to simulate several ignition cycles) and kept my Equus 3130 plugged in while reading live data and keeping a sharp eye out for pending codes... the results: NO NEW CODES!!

Im going to O'Reilly to return the Dorman CPAS and get my $65 back. Im going to keep my 3130 hooked but Im pretty sure I got this.

The expense of my P1345 & P0014 codes:
New Actuator: $102
New Crank Sensor: $22
New Cam Sensor: $11
Valve Cover Gaskets:$13
Intake Gaskets: $10
At least 3 bottles of Moscato to help with my anxiety over the last week: $50
New CPAS Wiring Harness: $18
New Delco CPAS: $37
J-44217 tools: $75
Change of syn. oil with only 5000 miles on it: $35
Knowing that I just rebuilt my whole exhaust VVT System myself: Priceless

Of course, the expense could've been A LOT more if I let the dealer replace the timing chain, tensioner and cam actuator for $2300. Im soooo glad I didnt just let them do it.

To anybody else with a P1345 & P0014 - dont give up hope. The actuator itself isnt so bad to replace (taking off the valve cover/intake is 300% harder than replacing the actuator itself!) and if you are going to replace the CPAS and you are up there in miles, it might be a great idea to replace the wiring harness at the same time. For $18, its cheap insurance really.

Now that this is buttoned up, I can FINALLY send my PCM in for the tune!! Ive been waiting years for this. I have the PCM all boxed up and ready to ship out to PCM4less tmo!

UPDATE: I drove to O'Reilly to return the Dorman POS CPAS, its about 20 mins each way... no codes, running good! Ive got a little 'stutter' in my acceleration and sometimes when I go to press the gas, the RPMs dip but I bet its the PCM relearning the TB. My TB wasnt dirty but maybe Ill clean it this week sometime, its been about a year since its last bath.

 

[Wyle]

My VVT is back and its baaaaaaaddd to the bone I could tell right away. The truck sounded quieter, accelerated smoother, and when I hit it....WHAMMMMM there she goes!

... the results: NO NEW CODES!!

20 mins each way... no codes, running good!

Where's a "fingers crossed" emoticon when you need one.

Congrats. MichEnvoyGuy = 1 ... TB =