Towing a car with the TB using U-haul's Auto transport trailer

[salvo2002]

so I know this has been discussed ad nauseum over at Trailvoy, but I still need some clarification.

here is my setup:
2003 TB 4x4 I6 (03/03)

from this post, GT4 = 3.73 gear ratio, and from the manual it states:

I have a 6000# max load, 600# tongue wt ball mount with a 6000# 2" ball
vehicle that I am transporting is a 2000 BMW 323i that has a curb weight of 3200#

so the questions:

I won't be using weight distribution, so am I limited to the 4000# max trailer wt, 400# max tongue? or do I use the 5700# max trailer wt?

from this post

forget the hitch figures. It's enough to know that it'll handle anythng the truck can, based on what you've posted, here.

How would I explain this to the U-haul guy that says I can't use the Auto Transport because the label on my hitch says 4000# max?

according to the u-haul page for the Auto Transport it states

Must have a towing system that has a 5,000 lbs. minimum weight-carrying rating

 

[ScarabEpic22]

What are you towing on the car hauler? Ive had to tell them that Im just towing a Honda Civic so they'll rent it to me if what Im towing pushes the weight limit.

Ive towed 5000lbs easily with my 02 4X4 I6 3.73+G80, currently thats the biggest load Ive towed behind either of my TBs. No WD hitch, just a regular dropbar and 2" ball.

 

[djthumper]

Have you tried a different U-Haul? A lot of those guys just read what it says not realizing the other information.

 

[Ghoster]

Not that I ever would want to have to lie to them, but I have told them I was towing an MG just so they wouldn't hassle me. For most people, I am GLAD they are overcautious. However, if you do the research and know what you can handle, you should be fine.

 

[salvo2002]

What are you towing on the car hauler? Ive had to tell them that Im just towing a Honda Civic so they'll rent it to me if what Im towing pushes the weight limit.

Ive towed 5000lbs easily with my 02 4X4 I6 3.73+G80, currently thats the biggest load Ive towed behind either of my TBs. No WD hitch, just a regular dropbar and 2" ball.

I'll be towing a BMW 323i that has a curb wt of 3200# (I might throw an extra 200# of stuff in it, but nothing to crazy). I don't come close to the weight limits imposed by u-haul; I am ~2000# less than what they say the max load is for the trailer. Yes I could tell them I am towing something significantly lighter but they will still tell me I don't meet their spec of a "5,000 lbs. minimum weight-carrying rating".

Have you tried a different U-Haul? A lot of those guys just read what it says not realizing the other information.

not yet, I guess that's my next option though!


another question:
why put a "Hitch Rating" sticker on the receiver that states 4000# max trailer wt if the vehicle can handle more? why is that sticker even on there?

 

[Ghoster]

I'll be towing a BMW 323i that has a curb wt of 3200# (I might throw an extra 200# of stuff in it, but nothing to crazy). I don't come close to the weight limits imposed by u-haul; I am ~2000# less than what they say the max load is for the trailer. Yes I could tell them I am towing something significantly lighter but they will still tell me I don't meet their spec of a "5,000 lbs. minimum weight-carrying rating".




not yet, I guess that's my next option though!


another question:
why put a "Hitch Rating" sticker on the receiver that states 4000# max trailer wt if the vehicle can handle more? why is that sticker even on there?

all of the uhaul places I have rented from went with whatever the computer told them, they never even looked at the sticker. You can rent the trailer online, they tell you right then if it is an acceptable load.

 

[djthumper]

There is that too. tell them you have to tow a bug or one of those small cars.

 

[Mark20]

I too have wondered about the numbers on the hitch sticker.

There are so many weight distribution hitch styles and none of them are 1-2-3 set up on the trailer. The WDH eases the tongue weight but you should be able to run without it.

 

[JosueLT]

I have no clue what my hitch numbers say...it's factory, so probably whatever every one else's says. lol I-6, and I have 3.42's, not sure if I have the locker. A friend of mine needed a '00 Mazda Millenia (about the same weight as the BMW, maybe closer to 3500) towed from about an hour away. He rented the trailer online, and we picked it up no problem. Even when I was playing around on U-Haul's site, I put all the info in and it said I was OK to tow.

I'm with everyone else though, sounds like you need to find a new U-haul dealer. lol

 

[Mark20]

I can see your TB squatting in the rear from the tongue weight. One thing I just realized is the trailer tongue is a single arm and not an A frame. I don't know if there are any weight distribution hitches made for single arm.

 

[de3jr88]

The sticker on the hitch is there to state what the hitch is rated for. Yes your truck can handle much more, but the hitch is rated for what it is rated and one has nothing to do with the other. Weight carrying is much harder on the hitch as it relies solely on the way the hitch is mounted to the vehicle for its strength. With weight distribution, you are spreading the force of the tongue load out to the entire tow vehicle, thus allowing for more weight all around. There are obvious safety and legal issues here. On one hand you could say "to hell with it, my truck can handle it". On the other hand you could have a massive equipment failure leading to a very serious situation. Your post states that you are at 600# pounds on the hitch. That is 50 percent more than its stated capacity for weight carrying, which is in effect its safe working load. Imagine the stress you would be putting on your hitch and vehicle with 50 percent more weight on your hitch, while travelling down the highway with a load moving around behind you.

My personal opinion is to NOT attempt this with your current set-up.

Try loading the car further back, or maybe even a different trailer.

I know many TV owners will say they have done it, no probs, blah blah blah. If you think the weights are there for no reason you are mistaken. I recently encountered a Commercial Vehicle Inspection Program that is run by all branches of our local law enforcement. Generally, they only target commercial vehicles but on occasion they also inspect private vehicles with loads and/or towing trailers. They are usually set-up on major roadways near they city limits. I was surprised to be inspected but also glad for the experience they provided.

They weigh every axle, check numerous mechanical points (brakes, suspension, tires etc), they check the posted weights on your mounted hitch and check your vehicle for its max carrying capacities. The officer explained to me that there is increasing pressure from the insurance industry to have more strict guidelines for trailer towing and that is why they do spot inspections on private vehicles too. The penalties are lower than for a commercial carrier but are still expensive, both monetarily and points.

Again, my personal opinion

 

[JosueLT]

Someone's always gotta be the Safety Police....

I see your points though.

I can see your TB squatting in the rear from the tongue weight. One thing I just realized is the trailer tongue is a single arm and not an A frame. I don't know if there are any weight distribution hitches made for single arm.

That it was. lol Looking back, I can't say that I'd do that again the same way. Maybe look for a lighter trailer (we now have a friend with an aluminum car hauler) or something.

 

[Porkins]

all of the uhaul places I have rented from went with whatever the computer told them, they never even looked at the sticker. You can rent the trailer online, they tell you right then if it is an acceptable load.

Yes, I got the trailer online also. He didn't look at my vehicle hitch or anything, the guy didn't even know how to use the trailer. Lucky for me I have used them in the past.

I have no clue what my hitch numbers say...it's factory, so probably whatever every one else's says. lol I-6, and I have 3.42's, not sure if I have the locker. A friend of mine needed a '00 Mazda Millenia (about the same weight as the BMW, maybe closer to 3500) towed from about an hour away. He rented the trailer online, and we picked it up no problem. Even when I was playing around on U-Haul's site, I put all the info in and it said I was OK to tow.

I'm with everyone else though, sounds like you need to find a new U-haul dealer. lol

That looks familiar, I towed a 01 kia sportage and had some low riding going on. Lucky I had to go only 25 miles @ a top speed of 45.



The Car you are towing will it allow the dolly instead of the "transport" trailer? If you have too, but I don't recommend it. Is position the car more center over the back wheel of the transport. I did and had to use my own trucker tie downs just an fyi.

 

[JosueLT]

Thank god it wasn't night time....my headlights would've been USELESS!

 

[The_Roadie]

I can see your TB squatting in the rear from the tongue weight. One thing I just realized is the trailer tongue is a single arm and not an A frame. I don't know if there are any weight distribution hitches made for single arm.

Problem isn't the single arm so much as the rental has surge brakes. That makes the available wdh even tougher to find and more expensive.

 

[djthumper]

That is the very reason I went with the Z71 springs when I lifted.

 

[MichEnvoyGuy]

I once towed a 3000lb car that I bought on ebay on a flatbed U-Haul trailer from NY to Detroit. I have the load leveling suspension on my Envoy so it didnt squat at all, but let me tell you - even with the 4.10's, I could feel that car and trailer behind me. I didnt dare go above 65mph. If I did - it felt squirrelly. The best I got the whole way was 15mpg according to the Driver info display (you were waiting for me to say "DIC" werent you?!?!)

 

[garciarf]

Not that I ever would want to have to lie to them, but I have told them I was towing an MG just so they wouldn't hassle me.

We had to tell them it was something very similar to a Toyota MR2, mind you, their system doesn't list "2004 Smart Roadster" as an option.

Also they had no issues renting us one of those trailers or a dolly (rescued friends twice), but they do seem to have some inconsistencies, as my friend had no issues renting an E-450 in Laredo TX with his Mexican DL, but in Scottsdale they wouldn't rent him a trailer; but since I was the driver I used my AZ DL.

 

[salvo2002]

Your post states that you are at 600# pounds on the hitch. That is 50 percent more than its stated capacity for weight carrying, which is in effect its safe working load. Imagine the stress you would be putting on your hitch and vehicle with 50 percent more weight on your hitch, while travelling down the highway with a load moving around behind you.

My personal opinion is to NOT attempt this with your current set-up.

the 600# tongue wt is the rating on the ball mount, I do not plan on exceeding the 400# limit. Thank you for the explanation of the hitch rating sticker, although I am still confused on how "one has nothing to do with the other". I heard that the "lowest rating is the limiting factor since whoever made the component tested the welds and structure to that load" I think it was in reference to the the ball mount and ball ratings, but wouldn't it still apply here regardless of how it is mounted to the frame? I am not trying to argue, I just don't have it locked down in my head yet.

The Car you are towing will it allow the dolly instead of the "transport" trailer? If you have too, but I don't recommend it. Is position the car more center over the back wheel of the transport. I did and had to use my own trucker tie downs just an fyi.

Can't use the dolly, it is RWD. Did the u-hual place not provide tie-downs? or were they not sufficient enough? I was able to reserve one online at a DIFFERENT place and when I called they said it wasn't going to be a problem :wootwoot: finding another place seemed to work.

 

[Porkins]

the 600# tongue wt is the rating on the ball mount, I do not plan on exceeding the 400# limit. Thank you for the explanation of the hitch rating sticker, although I am still confused on how "one has nothing to do with the other". I heard that the "lowest rating is the limiting factor since whoever made the component tested the welds and structure to that load" I think it was in reference to the the ball mount and ball ratings, but wouldn't it still apply here regardless of how it is mounted to the frame? I am not trying to argue, I just don't have it locked down in my head yet.




Can't use the dolly, it is RWD. Did the u-hual place not provide tie-downs? or were they not sufficient enough? I was able to reserve one online at a DIFFERENT place and when I called they said it wasn't going to be a problem :wootwoot: finding another place seemed to work.

Uhaul does have tie downs, they are fixed to the trailer. So making that you have to load it all the way to the front of the trailer and have really no play on where to put it on the trailer. I centered my Kia over the back wheel of the trailer (so it didn't squat), and the tie down didn't reach so I used my own.

 

[gmcman]

Salvo...I will try to explain this in addition to what good info has been posted.

You can roll down the highway weighing in at 10,500 lbs, combined tow vehicle (your trailblazer) and trailer (trailer, and what is on it) and all occupants and cargo.

If you get pulled over or get weighed, you cannot weigh more than 10,500 lbs. Your trailblazer which is very similiar or almost equivalent to my 4x4 Envoy, weighs roughly 4720 lbs with only a full tank of fuel, no driver. Keep in mind, that u-haul trailer weighs probably 1500 lbs give or take a few hundred.

You could also be fined for being over-axle while still being within weight limits, I don't think it will apply to this situation but not 100% sure.

The limits on the hitch for weight distribution, which allow for greater than 400 lbs of tongue weight, are because the WDH places some of the load onto the front axle by forcing the front of the frame downwards at the pivot point of the ball...the tongue weight doesn't change. You can get a WDH for a straight tongue but I believe the trailer limit is only 4000 lbs.

912 lbs tongue weight with WD is spread out keeping vehicle stability in check, 600-700 lbs on the rear alone will lighten up the front too much when loading wthout WD.

Granted i'm no saint, but you also need to bear in mind the liability placed on you when towing something you shouldn't...I look at these things differently now that I have kids. Tell u-haul you are pulling a smart car, then plow into someone carrying either too much for the tow vehicle or too much for the trailer....you are in for possibly a lifetime of troubles if you maim or kill someone. Sorry to sound cynical, but it's just something you need to keep in mind.

I don't think you will have a problem, just be sure to place the car on the trailer giving the TB some downward pressure on the hitch but not keeping it level, otherwise the tail will wag the dog...you need some decent tongue weight I don't think JosueLT pic is all that bad, maybe slightly heavy on the tongue but not terrible, wouldn't go any further on the tongue weight though...

 

[JosueLT]

Keep in mind, that u-haul trailer weighs probably 1500 lbs give or take a few hundred.

The trailer I used in the pic above was 2,200 lbs.

 

[gmcman]

Curb weight of the Mazda is 3410 lbs, that puts you at roughly 10,300 with no persons or cargo..

 

[JosueLT]

Had a passenger with me, so that put me over 10,500.

Not something I'd try again without beefing up it's towing capability. I'm actually in a pickle right now that I'd LOVE for the TB to get me out of. I'm doing the body work on a friends '89 Toyota Pickup, but I can't paint in my garage. It's completely torn down and gutted, so it needs towed to the place he's getting it painted, but we're having a hard time lining up a truck and trailer. I don't want to use the TB for something this heavy.

So, in the mean time, I get to park my car outside and scrape my windows every morning while his truck takes up my garage spot.

 

[gmcman]

What model toyota is it?

 

[gmcman]

Reason I ask is, unless it is a full size tundra, you could probably get away with just using a tow dolly.

They are generally rated at around 4500 pounds.

 

[JosueLT]

It's just a regular Pickup. The dude keeps saying it's classified as a "half ton"...it sure is heavy to push like one! haha

I might have to look into a tow dolly, if this continues too long. What's the best way to tow a truck like that though? It's manual, but 4WD.

 

[navigator]

with a manual you should be able to tow it with all 4 on the ground in neutral.

to the OP, how far are you going? I was going to rent a trailer to move my Ranger one time and found a towing company that would tow it cheaper than I could rent the trailer.

 

[de3jr88]

the 600# tongue wt is the rating on the ball mount, I do not plan on exceeding the 400# limit. Thank you for the explanation of the hitch rating sticker, although I am still confused on how "one has nothing to do with the other". I heard that the "lowest rating is the limiting factor since whoever made the component tested the welds and structure to that load" I think it was in reference to the the ball mount and ball ratings, but wouldn't it still apply here regardless of how it is mounted to the frame? I am not trying to argue, I just don't have it locked down in my head yet.




Can't use the dolly, it is RWD. Did the u-hual place not provide tie-downs? or were they not sufficient enough? I was able to reserve one online at a DIFFERENT place and when I called they said it wasn't going to be a problem :wootwoot: finding another place seemed to work.

When i refer to "one has nothing to do with the other", I am referring to the hitch rating vs the tow vehicles rating. Specifically in that your vehicle has one set of ratings based on its GVWR, and the hitch has ratings based on its manufacturer and its intended use. A class III/IV hitch mount is made for light to medium duty as is reflected in the weight carrying capacity. Its limitations are based on 3 factors: the strength of the lighter weight steel components, the welded joints, and the mounting bolts. As was stated by another poster, the weight distribution capacities are higher as the load is spread out on your tow vehicle, lessening the dead weight load on the hitch itself. In most cases, weight distribution capacities are limited by your tow vehicle's GVWR. My other vehicle is an 04 Montana. It has the same Class III/IV mount as my Envoy, but cant haul or tow anything close to what the Envoy can.

If you need more weight carrying capacity, you could try to find a class V hitch mount for your vehicle. In this case, I would recommend investing in an air-assisted rear suspension. There are many types available, but the easiest to DIY is the manual bag setup where you inflate them based on your load. An on-board compressor is not required, but access to one is necessary although I believe you may be able to inflate them with a good hand pump. The air assisted rear suspension will help keep your vehicle more level and stable.

 

[salvo2002]

with a manual you should be able to tow it with all 4 on the ground in neutral.

to the OP, how far are you going? I was going to rent a trailer to move my Ranger one time and found a towing company that would tow it cheaper than I could rent the trailer.

Pensacola, FL to Omaha, NE ~ 1200 miles, what company did you use? what did you do for insurance? or is transport covered under your regular auto insurance?

 

[salvo2002]

When i refer to "one has nothing to do with the other", I am referring to the hitch rating vs the tow vehicles rating. Specifically in that your vehicle has one set of ratings based on its GVWR, and the hitch has ratings based on its manufacturer and its intended use. A class III/IV hitch mount is made for light to medium duty as is reflected in the weight carrying capacity. Its limitations are based on 3 factors: the strength of the lighter weight steel components, the welded joints, and the mounting bolts. As was stated by another poster, the weight distribution capacities are higher as the load is spread out on your tow vehicle, lessening the dead weight load on the hitch itself. In most cases, weight distribution capacities are limited by your tow vehicle's GVWR.

so based on above, and not being able to use a WDH with the uhaul auto transport (because of the way the trailer is designed), am I limited to the weight carrying hitch rating? am I understanding this correctly?

 

[navigator]

Pensacola, FL to Omaha, NE ~ 1200 miles, what company did you use? what did you do for insurance? or is transport covered under your regular auto insurance?

It was a local private company. It took this guy less than an hr to come to my house, load my truck and take it to the garage that was doing my work. I think he charged $35 and to rent a dolly would have been $50.

If you are towing 25 miles, I might take some risk.
When you are towing 1200 miles, even if you do everything perfect you are open to having some major problems.
If you decide to do it and don't have a tranny cooler, get one!

 

[gmcman]

When you are towing 1200 miles, even if you do everything perfect you are open to having some major problems.
If you decide to do it and don't have a tranny cooler, get one!

Absolutely.

1200 miles, rent a one-way tow dolly, pull the driveshaft from the rear diff, and tie it up good to the frame....this way you won't leak fluids from the transfer case.

What condition is your TB in...ie, mechanical, has your trans ever been flushed or fluid changed....how many miles on the trans and what have been the services done?

If I was in your position and had to pull a vehicle 1200 miles, I would add a tranny cooler (very easy) and buy a temp gauge and attach it to the OUTLET of the tranny cooler that heads directly back to the trans. This way you know how the trans cooling system is doing...temps inside the trans are hot, if it remains hot and climbs then the cooler isn't providing sufficent thermal exchange and this is the critical area to monitor.

 

[de3jr88]

so based on above, and not being able to use a WDH with the uhaul auto transport (because of the way the trailer is designed), am I limited to the weight carrying hitch rating? am I understanding this correctly?

The reality is that your factory installed equipment has its limitations. My opinion is based only on the facts at hand, and I know that I wouldnt make a 1200 mile journey with that equipment. I work for the Municipal Government here, and we are strictly scrutinized by law enforcement for load limits, load securement, and lifting capacity both for our equipment and lifting rigs. It is based on my experience that I have my opinion on posted limits for towing etc. That being said, I agree that really short distances may be okay to risk depending on the circumstances. I move my RV around the storage lot without my WD all the time, but I wouldnt take it on the highway though. At the end of the day, knowing what you know now, ask yourself if you are comfortable with the situation and you will have your decision.

If you decide to go for it, make sure all your mechanicals are up to date, especially your brakes, suspension, and transmission. I believe gmcman recommended a tranny cooler. It is a cheap yet vital add-on if you plan on doing any towing over long distance or in hilly terrain. Also, slide under your TB and have a look at the hitch mounting and see if there is any thing that catches your eye such as rust around the mounting bolts. Also check the welds where the receiver is mounted to the hitch frame, they almost never fail but good to check anyways. Its easy maintenance items to check once a year if you plan on doing any kind of towing.

Good luck and happy motoring

 

[TollKeeper]

Not knowing the exact specifics about ther Bimmer you are towing, here are my recomendations..

Tow Dolly.. You have a few options here. First, if it is a stick, drive it on the tow dolly, put it in neutral, tie the front wheels down, and go. No problems at all. If its an Automatic, there are 3 possibilitys. First, check with Bimmer to find out if the car can be flat towed without modificaiton to the tranny. If they say yes, that means you can do the same thing as you would if it was a stick. If they say no, then you can either drive the Bimmer onto the tow dolly, remove the drive shaft, and go, OR, you can put the bimmer on the tow dolly backwards, tie down the steering wheel, and go.

One thing to make sure in any of the above situations is that you still have enough ground clearance for the vehicle to safely, and without dragging, go over bridge connectors, which can have a fair amount of rise and drop to them. Bimmers, as I remember my neighbor bitching about his 3 series that spends more time in the shop, than on the road, that he always has a tough time with tow trucks because of the ground clearance, whether its a flat bed, or a wheel lift.

You could still get a car hauler, U-Haul now offers 3 different models, and they all vary on weight drasticly. One is light duty, 3500 or less, medium duty, 4500 or less, and heavy duty, 5500 or less. If you go this route, make sure to get the light duty one, and you should be fine. I would not recommend driving over 65, as someone else mentioned, as that seems to be the stable speed for SWB TV's. And 60 for the LWB TV's. My XUV likes to wiggle around with my 1000 lbs trailer behind it, and its a LWB. I have flat towed a Chevy Luv with it, no problem, and also a Lincoln Town Car... That one I didnt go above 40, didnt trust the flat tow bar.

Tranny cooler is a MUST!!! No question asked. a 150 dollar investment now will save you a 3000 dollar repair in the middle of your trip..

 

[gmcman]

Only issue I have with towing it backwards is the amount of hardware under the front half of the car. I guess i'm playing it over-cautious but just assuming a road hazzard that gets flipped up will not cause as much damage to the front if it's on the dolly.

Check around and see if you need to remove the driveshaft from the diff, I know on some of those models there is a shield covering the driveshaft and can be a pita to get to the u-joint.

Bring a few pieces of 1x6's to give a gradual roll off from the dolly if bumper clearance is an issue.

 

[salvo2002]

I made the trip, no problems except the linkage to the transmission popped off half way through. I was able to manually put it in 3rd and drive it the rest of the way until I could get to a grinder and get a bolt through it. I basically did the same thing listed here but put a bolt through since I didn't have time to wait for the part.

I was on the heavy side for sure, the trailer weight was 2100# by itself and the BMW was 3247# (I emptied out the gas tank, and put some cargo in it to load balance and reduce tongue weight). I didn't have time to install the tranny cooler, but I made sure to take it easy on acceleration and checked the fluid at every stop. I had a lot of cargo in the TB though, my wife, 2 dogs, their crates, food, Christmas gifts, tools, and other stuff the moving company wouldn't take.

My empty weight was 9840#, and loaded weight was 11,038# (using certified CAT scales) although I made sure not to exceed the GVWR (5750#) hence why I threw some stuff in the BMW. The TB drove great and held up well, I cruised along at 60 MPH and luckily it was very flat. I know this was exceeding the GCWR limitation and I accepted the risk. I do NOT recommend overloading the manufacturer ratings , and next time I will properly plan out the weight and install a tranny cooler, or just have a company ship the car.

The TB had 45K on it and was well maintained by the previous owner (I am the second). Before we left I put new pads and rotors on, rotated the tires, oil change, front and rear diff fluid change (although we left it in 2WD the whole time since the front diff seal was leaking...I'll be doing that next)

View attachment 17456
this doesn't show the sag, although it wasn't to bad. I relived the pressure off the rear by jacking up the trailer whenever we stopped for the night and also when we got gas.

 

[JosueLT]

Glad to hear all went well.

 

[gmcman]

Good to hear it went well, except for the linkage issue of course.

Just something to keep in mind, some sag is good. Don't try to take too much weight from the tongue or the trailer will sway..kinda like the "tail wagging the dog".

First time I pulled a grand am it was rocking back and forth at hwy speed, I thought I loaded it forward enough. Re adjusted to where the rear dropped another inch or so and it pulled straight. Lastly if you don't have an extra cooler or at least a tranny temp gauge, make sure the converter at least locks up. Acceleration isn't the issue as much as ensuring the converter is locked.

 

[Tofer76]

I have no clue what my hitch numbers say...it's factory, so probably whatever every one else's says. lol I-6, and I have 3.42's, not sure if I have the locker. A friend of mine needed a '00 Mazda Millenia (about the same weight as the BMW, maybe closer to 3500) towed from about an hour away. He rented the trailer online, and we picked it up no problem. Even when I was playing around on U-Haul's site, I put all the info in and it said I was OK to tow.

I'm with everyone else though, sounds like you need to find a new U-haul dealer. lol

turn the car around and lighten the tounge weight,