NEED HELP "Top End Soak" ... question

TequilaWarrior

Original poster
Member
Dec 5, 2011
595
Central Pennsylvania
This has probably been covered in "clips and phrases" in various threads throughout the site, but maybe we can collect valid advice and how-to's here, as well as clear up some concerns I have:

I've seen multiple references to "Top End Soak" for these platforms. I believe these to refer to the practice of introducing a chemical to the top side of the combustion chamber with the intent of melting and breaking down the residual carbon in the chamber as well as having said chemical work its way down along the combustion chamber walls and free up the rings/oil rings.

My concerns revolve around the feasibility of performing this operation myself without having to remove the oil pan and oil pickup / oil pump. This is something I can honestly say I have never done, on any vehicle, ever. A complete oil (and oil filter) change is anticipated (even TWO consecutive is acceptable).

Is this something I can do at home and by myself? (I'm pretty handy - have rebuilt an engine in the past.)
What is the procedure?
What is the wait time?
What are the anticipated effects?
Are there any good "how-to" videos?
What are the anticipated costs?
What are the pitfalls/traps/gotchas?
Do any covers/pans/manifolds need removed? (like valve cover, oil pan, intake)
 

mrrsm

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All of the submissions as Answers to your Questions here below involve suggestions meant for The Use of ACDelco Top Engine Cleaner inside of the GM Atlas Vortec 4200 LL8 6 Cylinder Engines as well as in the 4 and 5 Cylinder In-Line Atlas Engine Variants. However, there is nothing prohibiting using these Techniques in the LT and LS V8 Engine Variants

What is the procedure?

(1) Prepare the Work Setting in advance with all necessary Safety Equipment and Ordinary Hand Tools.

(2) Remove the Air Plenum and then ALL Coil Over Plugs & Spark Plugs (Note their ‘Positions and Conditions’ for later reference if any Pre-or-Post Compression Dry-Wet Testing is being done.)

(3) Use ACDelco Top Engine Cleaner as the Solvent of Choice in either the FOAM or the Pure Liquid ‘Flavors’.

(4) Fill Each Cylinder to the Brim. Clever use of Gasoline Fuel Line and/or Slender Funnels will help.

What is the wait time?

Allow the ACDelco TEC to Carbon Soak in the Combustion Chambers for No Longer than Three Hours then evacuate each cylinder in such a manner as to prevent Hydro-Locking the Atlas Engine.

What are the anticipated effects?

(1) ACDelco Top Engine Cleaner is the most effective solvent for dissolving the Baked-On Carbon and Gas Gum “Lacquer” Deposits on all Metal Surfaces.

(2) The Expected Results are that an Extended Soak Procedure will place enough of this Solvent in concentrations that will be sufficient to Soften, Loosen and Dissolve “The Carbon Black Mung” surrounding the Valve Seats, covering the Piston Tops and adjacent combustion chambers surfaces AND seep down around the Two Top ‘Low Tension’ Compression Rings to free them from being trapped within the Lands and Grooves of all Six Pistons.

(3) Breaking the Carbon-Lacquer Traps will free up the "Low Tension" Compression Rings enough to Flex Outwards and once again, provide Better Combustion via Better Compression and more complete energy extraction during each Power Stroke. There MAY be an improvement in the Engine Power and Performance and diminish errant Mis-Fires.

(4) The subsequent occurrence of having Solvent Contaminated Motor Oil and also within the Old Oil Filter should be changed out for an Inexpensive Organic 5W-30 Motor Oil-Oil Filter Combo for a brief follow on 'clean-out' period and then finally exchanged for Mobil1 5W-30 Full Synthetic Motor Oil and either a Mobil1 or a K&N Oil Filter.

Are there any Good "How-To" Videos?

There is a GM TSB covering their recommended use of ACDelco Top Engine Cleaner once mixed with High Octane Gasoline and introduced into the Fuel Stream in place of Pumped Gasoline by means of a Compression Cylinder powered by Compressed Air. The efficacy of using this particular method with ACDelco TEC remains dubious and unclear as shown in THIS Video.


What are the anticipated costs?

ACDelco Top Engine Cleaner is available in two variants via Amazon by following these search results:

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=acdelco+top+engine+cleaner&crid=WSA4PH8J3IDJ&sprefix=acdelco+top,aps,129&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_1_11

If the User chooses the Straight ACDelco-TEC Liquid to pour into each cylinder...Two 32 Ounce Cans will be sufficient for a 6-8 Cylinder Engine.

If the User chooses the Foaming Variant of the ACD-TEC… 3-4 Cans will be sufficient for this procedure.

The Cost of Additional Motor Oil and Oil Filters must be factored into the Budget for this Job.


What are the pitfalls/traps/gotchas?

(1) ACDelco Top Engine Cleaner is HIGHLY TOXIC AND CARCINOGENIC. The Engine Treatment should ONLY be performed in an Open, Well Ventilated Area… away from the Residence and NEVER induced while the vehicle is inside of a Garage.

(2) ACDelco TEC produces a VERY High Level of VOCs (Volatile Organic Compounds) that will readily make the breather nauseous and-or have breathing difficulties. Wearing an approved OSHA Face-Filter-Mask and 11 Mil Nitrile Gloves is BEST whenever working with this Chemical.

(3) Always have a Fresh ABC Fire Extinguisher on hand and warn Family, Friends, Pets and Strangers to remain clear of the adjacent work areas.

(4) NEVER Turn over the Engine using the Starter. Employ a Clock-Wise Cranking action By Hand using a Socket and Ratcheting Breaker Bar to cycle the Pistons up and down VERY SLOWLY..

(5) After a Three Hour Soak, Evacuate the Open Cylinders either with a MITAC Suction Tool, using a Turkey Baster by hand... or by using Blue “Scott” Shop Towels packed into all of the Spark Plug Wells to absorb the gradually expelling 'Used, Black Mung' Solvent.

Do any covers/pans/manifolds need removed? (like valve cover, oil pan, intake)

(1) It will be necessary to R&R the Air Plenum in order to access and R&R the Coil Over Plugs & the Spark Plugs and Install and Remove Absorbent Media saturated with Used ACDelco Top Engine Cleaner. Dispose of this Hazardous VOC Harmful Material inside of large Zip Lock Bags in a responsible manner.

(2) Performing several Motor Oil and Oil Filter exchanges is par for the course whenever using ACDelco Top Engine Cleaner for this “Carbon Busting” Exercise.
 
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TequilaWarrior

Original poster
Member
Dec 5, 2011
595
Central Pennsylvania
@MRRSM , Thanks for the response....
Follow on questions... for me and for others....
What are some clear signs that this should be attempted? (I'm at 300k+ miles and have a terrible dieseling sound).
What are the prospects of doing this WITHOUT removing the intake on a 4.2? (I just did intake gaskets in the past couple years or so)
Would the spray cleaner be able to clean the gunk out of the area ABOVE the valves, in the intake area, where tons of gunk builds up? (I scraped mine out as best I could with a screw driver and spatula... some remains no matter what I do).

Thanks!
 
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mrrsm

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Spraying anything capable of loosening Carbon and Oily Deposits might do more harm than good without first removing the Intake Manifold (NOT a Trivial Job!) and then carefully cleaning the Intake Ports with the following reasons for using such care whenever doing so:

THIS Video will prove very instructive on How to Perform the R&R of the GM 4.2L Engine Intake Manifold to replace the Three "Figure 8" Gasket Sets and the *** Short Rubber "Elbow" he mentions herein:


*** If it comes down to cases and that IM "Elbow" PCV-Like Tube gets damaged during this R&R in order to access that damned hidden single Trapped IM Fastener... THIS is the GM OEM Factory Part you'll want use to replace it:

42494504005_25e70f20e8_c.jpg42494504155_8f578f0ec0_c.jpg43350768252_cd0695a4ef_c.jpg


But first, let's Differentiate between the "Breathing" locations in the LL8 Motors and describe the types of Carbon and Oily Dirt Build Up therein:

Intake Manifold to Intake Ports in the Driver's Side of the GM 4.2L LL8 Aluminum Engine Head:

(1) On High Mileage Motors... Carbon Trapped Compression Rings reduces the ability of the Pistons to apply the correct "Squeeze" or Quench for the Fuel Air Mixture BTDC.

(2) Excessive collections of Carbon Deposits will HOLD HEAT and with sufficient accumulation, can increase the Combustion Ratio by enough of a factor to cause Pre-Ignition when using Non-High Test Gasoline.

(3) The other artifact of having Trapped Compression Rings is the passage of Incomplete Combustion By-Products into the Lower Rectangular Engine Block that tends to move through the openings in the Engine Vacant spaces into the underside of the Valve Cover and thence... through the "Elbow Hose", then through the Air Plenum to get ingested into the Intake Air Stream.

(4) In this manner, Oily, Dirty Gas Fume riddled Air gets routed through the Throttle Body and tends to collect just above the entrance inside the Intake Ports as "Black Muck". THESE Intake Port Images serve to Illustrate this phenomena on a 2004 4.2L LL8 with around 160,000 Miles in its Rear View Mirror:

43430226652_f39a094b49_c(1).jpg42573624705_f0ae4857ac_c(1).jpg42761946704_f17f915560_c(1).jpg42761946704_f17f915560_c(1).jpg

(5) The important distinction here though is that ordinarily, NO FUEL is mixed in with the Inhaled Air at this point and the Incoming Air Stream tends to be COLD. So that "Carbon Blow-By" Gunk tends NOT to Bake in place on the Intake Ports and Valve Stems and can be easily wiped out using Berryman's B-12 Spray Solvent on Blue "Scott" Shop Towels using caution NOT to allow collections of Greasy Dirt to fall down past any Open Intake Valves.

Exhaust Valve Ports to Exhaust Manifold in the Passenger Side of the GM 4.2L LL8 Aluminum Engine Head:

(1) Here is where things can get UGLY... The Exhaust Valves here are quite a bit smaller in their Outside Diameters because it is MUCH EZR to Evacuate a Cylinder under Pressure while 'Exhaling' Exhaust Gasses than it is to 'Inhale' Fresh Air along with Atomized Jets of Fuel through the Plugged In EFIs well inside of the Ports during the 6 Cylinder Intake Strokes.

(2) Even with Four Valves Per Cylinder... it can still take a while for the Exhaust Gasses to work their way around the lips of the Opened Valves and around the Valve Stems, remembering that the Exhaust Stream here is HOT AS HELL during these events.

(3) The Results are that the Un-Burned Carbon and Particulate matter left over as the 'Sticky Residue' during each Exhaust Stroke allows all of that stuff an opportunity to STICK SOLID and Bake On HARD around the curved edges where the Valve stem swells inwards to meet the edges of the Exhaust Valves and around the Valve Seats.

(4) THIS is where that Carbon Crap and Poorly Combusted By-Products will either Huff & Puff through the bottom of the Crankcase to get re-ingested and pass through the Intake Manifold ... OR... Burn Solid along the Valve Seats and Stems and collect and confound the smooth emptying of the Cylinders of this Exhaust "Smoke" through the Exhaust Manifold:

43478508601_1038aa8807_c.jpg43478506851_dfd56c651a_c.jpg43478506381_0e9dc52966_c.jpg43478504731_bcce49ed84_c.jpg

(5) Unlike 4 Stroke Combustion Engines Designed prior to Catalytic Converters... Modern Engines with Smog Controls using the CATs working at nearly 900 Degrees Fahrenheit that will literally 'Cook" away most of those Incomplete Combustion By-Products and thereby, conceal most of the evidence that perhaps the Cylinders and Rings are Worn, perhaps the Valve Guides in the Engine Head are Worn... or any excessive amount of "Gray Smoke" indicating Poor Compression and Combustion being present leaves us with almost No Visible Clues to make this determination.

(6) The collection of these Burned-On Carbons Deposits serve to obstruct the Smooth and Complete Flow of the Exhaust Stream and make way for Fresh, Clean Air and Fuel Spray into all cylinders at all times and serves to reduce Engine Power and Fuel Efficiency.

(7) In this manner, the Intake Air Stream becomes contaminated with unregulated "Old Fuel Vapors and Incomplete Combustion Residues" that might confuse to the PCM when trying to read the O2 Sensor Inputs and make correct calculations for "How Much Fuel to Deliver?". If you think I'm kidding... Pull out the Oil Level Dip-Stick and Smell the Tip for the presence of GASOLINE.

(8) Incomplete Combustion, By-Pass or Blow-By has the additional negative side effect of contaminating the entire Engine Oiling System with Unburned Fuel and Excess Smoky Carbon Soot that can coat the innards of everything 'just below the waterline'.

(9) Over time and and after Several Hundred Thousand Miles of Operation, this creates a "Sticky, Black Lacquer" that can decorate the surfaces of the Lower Engine Block and Rotating Assembly with enough Carbon Deposits over time that they'll tend to Flake Off from Engine Vibrations and Motions and often then get ingested (or Gradually Obstruct or Block OFF) in through the Oil Pick Up Tube and eventually fill the Fan-Fold Paper Sections inside of the Oil Filters with what looks like "Black Coffee Grounds".

(10) The Gerotor Oil Pump inside the front Timing Cover of the GM Atlas Vortec 4200 Motors is capable of pumping over 11 Gallons of Motor Oil Per Minute at nearly 65 PSI at Higher RPM Levels and perhaps as low as 12 PSI when Idling around 600 RPM. So just consider all of the "Extra Carbon Baggage" that gets mixed into the Motor Oil inside Carbon Laden Motors.

(11 ) Anyone who tries to gauge (or S-T-R-E-T-C-H) their Oil Changes to the Higher Mileages of around 5,000 Miles in between instead of every 3,000 Miles is just asking for trouble. This is because Older Motors NEED their "Blood Transfusions" on schedule to COMPLETELY Replace any Gas-Fuel vapor and Carbon Contaminated, Low Lubricity Motor Oils SOONER rather than LATER as they can still Age Gracefully and keep their Reputations as being ONE HELLUVAN EXCELLENT In-Line Six Cylinder Engine.
 

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Mooseman

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Dec 4, 2011
25,992
Ottawa, ON
What I would do is manually clean the throttle body with ordinary throttle body or carb cleaner with the battery disconnected at least 30 min. to reset the PCM. Then, with the throttle body back on, with an assistant on the gas pedal, start and rev the engine while you spray cleaner into the throttle body. A lot of people like Seafoam but I would use something more aggressive like carb cleaner. I'd use a whole can to try and clean the intake tract. It's not the best method but should get rid of a lot of that crap.

If you do remove the intake, you could use TEC to clean the ports in the head. The manifold isn't as easy to clean though. Maybe slosh some Berryman's in it and rinse it out as best you can.

You will notice in the pictures above that the intake valves look relatively clean. That's because the injectors spray directly on them so there is no concern there.

The possible benefits? Unless there is actual thick accumulation of gunk seriously impeding air flow, I wouldn't bother except for the throttle body as that can cause idle issues. However, cleaning the pistons to try to free up the rings to address a particular issue, like low compression or oil consumption, is worth the try. If you have one, an endoscope could be snaked in there to have a look.
 
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Beacon

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Mar 22, 2019
453
SouthWestern PA
I like the idea of what mrrsm explained. And what mooseman said. Can't help but think that spraying cleaner into a running engine shortens the life of catalytic converters.
That being said, I did it to a Jeep liberty with 200 k on the clock.
I suppose if you wanted you could disconnect the cats, but that seems like work.this is pretty much what I did, it works. I also did it to a garden tractor.
 
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TequilaWarrior

Original poster
Member
Dec 5, 2011
595
Central Pennsylvania
I'm working up the nerve to do the TEC soak / oil change procedure.... but I'm not looking forward to removing the intake to do so.
Typing this out, I may have just come to a realization.... I don't need to remove the intake to do so, do I? I need to remove the resonator that sits in front of the throttlebody to access the spark plugs but removing the intake should be completely unnecessary.... is that correct?

I replaced all the intake, exhaust, valve cover, and spark plug well gaskets within the past few years. At that time I soaked all removed parts (except exhaust manifold) in purple industrial degreaser then scrubbed with a stiff bristled brush. For good measure I sprayed everything off with brakleen to be darned sure there was no water left. The intake should be pretty darn clean. My concern was the area from the ports to the valves. I did use a putty knife and screw driver to remove as much of that gunk as possible and it sounds like getting more aggressive is not necessary and I'd REALLY like to not remove the intake manifold if I don't have to. However, there's a small part of me that wants to pull the injectors and build a jerry-rigged injector cleaner gizmo like this:
... but if I can do the TEC soak without removing the intake, I'll wait on the injector cleaning....

I've seafoamed this engine more than once using the brake booster hose and pouring into gas tank. Improvements were minimal or placebo in my case.
I regularly clean my throttlebody at every oil change. I've gotten the procedure down to the point where I can change the oil, clean the TB, and reassemble everything and end up waiting for the 30 minutes on the battery disconnect.
 
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Mooseman

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Dec 4, 2011
25,992
Ottawa, ON
I need to remove the resonator that sits in front of the throttlebody to access the spark plugs but removing the intake should be completely unnecessary.... is that correct?
That is correct.

I'd REALLY like to not remove the intake manifold if I don't have to.
Cleaning the intake manifold and ports would have a very minimal effect. Your best bet is to do just the TEC in the combustion chambers.
 

mrrsm

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Try to imagine this situation in light of THESE Facts:

Assume that the Trailblazer, Envoy, Isuzu or Rainier in Question bears the typical High End Mileage GM 4.2L LL8 Engine over its entire operational life of 215,000 Miles. Then consider that within that SUV’s Lifespan, at an Average of 18 MPG, this equates to ingesting around 11, 944 Gallons of Mid-Grade Fuel.

For the purposes of the Ordinary Automotive Combustion of Liquid Fuel in a quantity to rival that of an Olympic Swimming Pool was also the need to ingest 14.7 Times as much Air along with it in order to achieve a rough Stoichiometric “Burn Balance” for Combustion and NOT violate Federal CARB Standards or EPA Regulations for Emissions. That amounts to an astonishing 175,577 Gallons of Air passing through ostensibly “Clean Air Filters” and thence, through the Throttle Body and Intake Manifold.

Mixed in liberally with those two media was a certain amount of Inhaled Air Borne Particulate Matter (Dirt, Sand… You Name It) that along with Heat and Friction, served to Grind, Score and Polish itself into and wear down the Exposed Six Vertical Cylinder Walls and Double Set of Compression Piston Rings over a staggering number of innumerable up and down cycles.

The end results are that in time, enough of the Products of Incomplete Combustion manage to By-Pass and Defeat the Factory Combustion Ratio of around 10.2:1 and wind up contaminating the entire Motor ...with Black Carbon Mung.

So while it might seem with all of that being said, spending $60.00 (which is actually the BEST Price I’ve ever seen this Stuff selling for on Amazon…) for a Top Engine Cleaner Treatment Solvent from ACDelco that actually WORKS after any Motor has had to endure ALL of this Ordinary Wear and Tear is a 'little expensive'… if even a Fraction of its Original Superb Power and Performance from its Early Life can be ‘unstuck and resurrected’… it will be Money Well Spent.



You Can’t Make The Scene… If you AIN’T Got The Green…” Jim Carrey as “The Mask”
 
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Mooseman

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Dec 4, 2011
25,992
Ottawa, ON
Check at the dealer. Sometimes Amazon is not the cheaper option.
 
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TollKeeper

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