The Phantom engine miss.

[Wooluf1952]

I'll try to keep this short;
A little over a year ago , I put in new AC Delco Iridium 41-103 plugs.

Not long after, the CC would stop working occasionally. My code reader gave me a P0301. Sometimes a P0300. Once in a while the CEL would light steady. Never flashing, just steady.

I thought maybe I had gotten too much dielectric grease on the plug or spring. So I removed the coil, cleaned the parts with contact cleaner, checked the plug and reassembled everything.

The CC would, occasionally kick out, but turning off the truck and restarting it would "fix" it.

Over Easter weekend we traveled to Minnesota, to visit my wife's sister.
About 4-5 times the CC quit. After the first time, I just left the code reader connected and showed my wife how to clear the codes as I drove.

I had pretty much the same problem on the way home.

A couple of days after the trip, I was driving and the CEL again lit up. It wasn't far to the house, so I just drove home, let the truck Idle and connected the code reader. P0301, again.

Parked the truck and got my tools ready while I waited for the engine to cool.

Removed the #1 coil ( I could feel the suction as I removed the coil so I knew it was on the plug correctly.)

Turned the plug over to check the tip for wear or carbon build-up. It was clean. A little dark, but nothing that should cause a miss. Less than 6k miles on the new plugs.

Started to reinstall the plug, but looked into the plug well first.

As I pulled my arm back to look in the well, I looked at the plug, (now in the install position) and the ceramic nose piece was down resting on the electrode.

The damn ceramic piece was so loose I could shake it like a maraca.

It's now been about two months since I replaced the plug and a 250 mile round trip in that time and no more problems.

In the 45 years I've been working on cars I've never had a problem like that with even a used plug. And that goes back to replacing plugs and points twice a year.

So if you have an intermittent miss you can't seem to pin down, check that.

 

[BINGA]

You sir, have piqued my interest. Can you tell me what codes P0300 and P0301 read as please?

 

[Wooluf1952]

The P0300 is for a random miss-fire.

The P030x points to a specific cylinder. The x would be 1 to 8, depending on how many cylinders you have.

 

[Mooseman]

It is unusual but not unheard of and is in plug troubleshooting guides. Any number of things could have broken the center electrode but it can happen. Good catch!

 

[BINGA]

Thanks guys, i swear after reading your post Wooluf, it almost seems like i had written it myself. I have the exact same symptoms where the CC occasionally will not work, and my CEL randomly comes on. Usually it seems to come on right after i completely fill the gas tank, so i assumed that maybe it was related to the gas cap where it thinks that the cap is not tightened fully. I had stopped by my local auto parts retailer one day and had them read the code, and to no surprise, he said it was a cylinder 3 misfire. Now i know there are a number of things that could be throwing that code, but your post at least gives me a few more things to look for. Looks like a plug check/change is in my near future. Thanks for the tips

 

[Mooseman]

It could also be a dying coil. Apart from the plug, swap the coil with another (ie: number 6). If the misfire is now at number 6, then the coil is bad.

 

[BINGA]

It could also be a dying coil. Apart from the plug, swap the coil with another (ie: number 6). If the misfire is now at number 6, then the coil is bad.

good advice, i just finished changing my plugs so i'll do that when putting the coil packs back in. here's a pic though of what i did notice while under there, and it only is present on the #3 coil pack. (the plug for #3 had nothing visibly wrong with it, no excess fouling/carbon deposits and was gapped correctly with nothing amiss on the points) Thoughts on this?

View attachment 21409

 

[MacMan]

It sounds to me that you probably cracked the porcelain insulator when you installed the plug. That would explain the cylinder miss and the CC shutting off right after the plug install.

 

[khill]

I've been chasing this exact problem for almost 2 years now, but mine is P0302 and P0300. I certainly hope that yours is fixed wooluf because mine has a habit of going away for a few weeks/months and coming back again, regardless of what I do. I've moved into my last resort tomorrow of replacing all the plugs and coils at the same time. I want my car working 100% this summer dammit! I could get probably 2x the life out of the plugs but I got a bunch of them for real cheap thanks to delco's coupon.

Among many other things, I have changed the #2 plug and moved the coils around but the issue still comes and goes. No other issues, truck is in pristine condition at 150k miles.

I'll see what happens after tomorrow, but I don't know if I can ever feel that the problem is truly fixed for good. And if it's not, I guess I'll have a few extra coils lying around

 

[BINGA]

It sounds to me that you probably cracked the porcelain insulator when you installed the plug. That would explain the cylinder miss and the CC shutting off right after the plug install.

I assume you are replying to Wooluf and not my post right?

I've been chasing this exact problem for almost 2 years now, but mine is P0302 and P0300. I certainly hope that yours is fixed wooluf because mine has a habit of going away for a few weeks/months and coming back again, regardless of what I do. I've moved into my last resort tomorrow of replacing all the plugs and coils at the same time. I want my car working 100% this summer dammit! I could get probably 2x the life out of the plugs but I got a bunch of them for real cheap thanks to delco's coupon.

Among many other things, I have changed the #2 plug and moved the coils around but the issue still comes and goes. No other issues, truck is in pristine condition at 150k miles.

I'll see what happens after tomorrow, but I don't know if I can ever feel that the problem is truly fixed for good. And if it's not, I guess I'll have a few extra coils lying around

Well if that is the case about having extra coil packs lying around, you may be able to recoup some of your money by selling me one if that's what turns out to be causing my particular issue...

 

[khill]

Sure thing on the coil packs. I have no specific way to test them so I'd probably send them off in pairs just in case one is bad. I certainly don't need 6 spares...

Knowing my luck they're probably all perfectly fine and I'm throwing 400 dollars in the fire but, hey, what's that summer bonus supposed to be for anyways?

 

[Wooluf1952]

It sounds to me that you probably cracked the porcelain insulator when you installed the plug. That would explain the cylinder miss and the CC shutting off right after the plug install.

The ceramic/porcelain insulator on the top of the plug is fine. It's the nose piece down, inside, by the electrode that's loose.

I've been chasing this exact problem for almost 2 years now, but mine is P0302 and P0300. I certainly hope that yours is fixed wooluf because mine has a habit of going away for a few weeks/months and coming back again, regardless of what I do. I've moved into my last resort tomorrow of replacing all the plugs and coils at the same time. I want my car working 100% this summer dammit! I could get probably 2x the life out of the plugs but I got a bunch of them for real cheap thanks to delco's coupon.

Among many other things, I have changed the #2 plug and moved the coils around but the issue still comes and goes. No other issues, truck is in pristine condition at 150k miles.

I'll see what happens after tomorrow, but I don't know if I can ever feel that the problem is truly fixed for good. And if it's not, I guess I'll have a few extra coils lying around

Thanks and good luck in your search.

 

[CookieMan12]

I'll try to keep this short;
A little over a year ago , I put in new AC Delco Iridium 41-103 plugs.

Not long after, the CC would stop working occasionally. My code reader gave me a P0301. Sometimes a P0300. Once in a while the CEL would light steady. Never flashing, just steady.

I thought maybe I had gotten too much dielectric grease on the plug or spring. So I removed the coil, cleaned the parts with contact cleaner, checked the plug and reassembled everything.

The CC would, occasionally kick out, but turning off the truck and restarting it would "fix" it.

Over Easter weekend we traveled to Minnesota, to visit my wife's sister.
About 4-5 times the CC quit. After the first time, I just left the code reader connected and showed my wife how to clear the codes as I drove.

I had pretty much the same problem on the way home.

A couple of days after the trip, I was driving and the CEL again lit up. It wasn't far to the house, so I just drove home, let the truck Idle and connected the code reader. P0301, again.

Parked the truck and got my tools ready while I waited for the engine to cool.

Removed the #1 coil ( I could feel the suction as I removed the coil so I knew it was on the plug correctly.)

Turned the plug over to check the tip for wear or carbon build-up. It was clean. A little dark, but nothing that should cause a miss. Less than 6k miles on the new plugs.

Started to reinstall the plug, but looked into the plug well first.

As I pulled my arm back to look in the well, I looked at the plug, (now in the install position) and the ceramic nose piece was down resting on the electrode.

The damn ceramic piece was so loose I could shake it like a maraca.

It's now been about two months since I replaced the plug and a 250 mile round trip in that time and no more problems.

In the 45 years I've been working on cars I've never had a problem like that with even a used plug. And that goes back to replacing plugs and points twice a year.

So if you have an intermittent miss you can't seem to pin down, check that.

I have the same issue, and I put the same exact plugs in mine just over a year ago, as well. Mine has gotten worse over time, and it comes and goes. My CEL randomly comes on, but rarely lasts a day. If I can get by Pep Boys before it goes out today, I will stop and let them tell me what the code is. I used to just notice it if the A/C was running, while driving up hill at a steady throttle. Now, it's gotten to where it does it with no A/C on, both on acceleration and steady throttle. Since just less than a year ago, I had to replace my thermostat, I had assumed it to be the CC, but now you have me thinking... AND, I just ordered a direct fit Magnaflow CC!

 

[BINGA]

Update if anyone is still subscribed to this thread...after changing out my plugs and thoroughly cleaning on and around the coil packs, haven't had that code come up in about a year. (side note: I have gotten the dreaded p0410 secondary air injection malfunction code recently)

 

[The_Roadie]

(side note: I have gotten the dreaded p0410 secondary air injection malfunction code recently)

I assume you discovered the discussions here and on trailvoy about the six things that can cause that code?

 

[BINGA]

I assume you discovered the discussions here and on trailvoy about the six things that can cause that code?

searching here now...briefly perused the "archives" on the OS when googling the codes. Seems like it's most likely the solenoid check valve since my pump engages on startup (audible for about 10 seconds on initial start)... I'll gladly take your advice though...