tensioner hitting crank pulley?

redbandit98

Original poster
Member
Aug 8, 2012
28
I was checking my antifreeze today and I was looking at the belt layout on my envoy. Ive never paid that much attention to it. I got to looking and the more I looked at it, the more It looked like in order to get the tension off the belt, the tensioner would hit the crank pulley. Well curiosity got the best of me and I went and grabbed an extension and a ratchet. To my surprise, it did hit. To me it looks like the only way to get the belt off would be to take the tensioner off. This cant be right...what gives?
 

Sparky

Member
Dec 4, 2011
12,927
I usually swing the tensioner over until it taps the crank pulley, then pop the belt off the alternator at the top and slowly release the tensioner until it is at full retract, then finish pulling off the belt. Are you trying to slide the belt off the crank or tensioner pulley first?
 

redbandit98

Original poster
Member
Aug 8, 2012
28
no, I actually did not try to take the belt off. I can tell you though that I would not have had enough to slip the belt off the alternator. Im guessing the tensioner pulley is only riding about 1/8" or so from the crank pulley. Im beginning to think the belt is too small. You say swing the tensioner over to where it kisses the pulley. When I am letting the tension off mine, I am pushing down towards the crankshaft (or towards the ground). It seems you are lifting up on the tensioner. Maybe mine is on wrong or something. My belt diagram is rubbed off. Im gonna go look at diagrams now and see if something is up.
 

redbandit98

Original poster
Member
Aug 8, 2012
28
The belt is on right. i just went and looked at mine. It looks like either..1) its "indexed" too far. I dont know if the tensioner itself can be put in certain positions with an alignment dowel in the back 2) The tensioner arm length changed after 02 and I got a newer tensioner on it 3) Thats just the way it is

here is a pic
View attachment 23459
 

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McGMT

Member
Jun 17, 2012
621
redbandit98 said:
The belt is on right. i just went and looked at mine. It looks like either..1) its "indexed" too far. I dont know if the tensioner itself can be put in certain positions with an alignment dowel in the back 2) The tensioner arm length changed after 02 and I got a newer tensioner on it 3) Thats just the way it is

here is a pic
View attachment 10049

Even if it could be indexed wrong the belt would not allow it to get that far. Looks to me like it has the wrong belt on it..
 

MAY03LT

Member
Nov 18, 2011
3,422
Delmarva
DSCN4569.jpg


Here's a different angle to compare yours to. This is from my 03.
 

redbandit98

Original poster
Member
Aug 8, 2012
28
MAY03LT said:
DSCN4569.jpg


Here's a different angle to compare yours to. This is from my 03.


they look pretty similar. Maybe my crank pulley is just a smidge from being where it needs to be. Even looking at yours, why in the hell would they put a tensioner so close to the crank that you couldnt move it more than about a 1/4"? I know you just need enough to get the belt on, but it seems they could have designed a little more lee-way into it.
 

WarGawd

Member
Sep 2, 2012
468
McGMT said:
Even if it could be indexed wrong the belt would not allow it to get that far. Looks to me like it has the wrong belt on it..

I do recall a thread on the OS that said that most parts places spec the wrong belt on the XL models. FWIW the Gates K060915 belt is 1-1/4" longer than the K060905 - ALL of the parts places near me said I needed the 915, even though from the VIN I knew I had the 150A alternator it still required the 905.

Generalizing, a shorter belt would tend to push the tensioner toward the crank pulley, conversely the longer belt allows the tensioner to rotate a bit further away.
Can't find my reference ATM, but somewhere I vaguely recall it mentioned that the 150A alternators have a smaller pulley than they used to (something like that). But without your (redbandit) profile details, it's hard to speculate.

Here's a pic of mine for another comparison, though it's hard to get any decent angles. I had plenty of clearance to get the old belt off and new belt on, even though the space still looks on the small side:

View attachment 23460
 

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Sparky

Member
Dec 4, 2011
12,927
The alternators are all the same (150A). It is the PS pump pulley that is a tad different I'm pretty sure.
 

Wooluf1952

Member
Nov 20, 2011
2,663
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
WarGawd said:
I do recall a thread on the OS that said that most parts places spec the wrong belt on the XL models. FWIW the Gates K060915 belt is 1-1/4" longer than the K060905 - ALL of the parts places near me said I needed the 905, but from the VIN I knew I had the 150A alternator that required the 915....a shorter belt would tend to push the tensioner toward the crank pulley, conversely the longer belt allows the tensioner to rotate a bit further away. Here's a pic of mine for another comparison, though it's hard to get any decent angles. I had plenty of clearance to get the old belt off and new belt on, even though the space still looks on the small side:

View attachment 10050

The correct belt for the EXT and XL is the shorter 905 belt.
Long wheel base = Short belt
Short wheel base = Long belt
 

WarGawd

Member
Sep 2, 2012
468
Sparky said:
The alternators are all the same (150A). It is the PS pump pulley that is a tad different I'm pretty sure.

You could be right, memory not serving me well just now, however Gates DOES list different belts for different alternators (130 vs 150) even when I put in my specific VIN # (1GKET16S956134882):

Gates VIN Decoder

{site is giving me image upload failures now, not sure why - plug my VIN in at the link provided to see what I meant}

GRRR link doesn't seem to wanna work directly, have to click it from upper right side of Gates main page http://www.gates.com/
 

jimmyjam

Member
Nov 18, 2011
1,634
i'll slide it off of the water pump pulley first since it doesn't ride the rib side of the belt you can just push it off
 

BRomanJr

Member
Dec 9, 2011
371
redbandit98 said:
they look pretty similar. Maybe my crank pulley is just a smidge from being where it needs to be. Even looking at yours, why in the hell would they put a tensioner so close to the crank that you couldnt move it more than about a 1/4"? I know you just need enough to get the belt on, but it seems they could have designed a little more lee-way into it.

IMHO you have the wrong belt. It appears you have the short belt (905) on a vehicle that is supposed to have the longer belt (915).

SWB = Longer belt 915
LWB = Shorter belt 905

Your profile and text does not specify your vehicle specifics.
If you happen to have the LWB, perhaps the power steering pump pulley has been changed to the larger one by mistake.
 

redbandit98

Original poster
Member
Aug 8, 2012
28
BRomanJr said:
IMHO you have the wrong belt. It appears you have the short belt (905) on a vehicle that is supposed to have the longer belt (915).

SWB = Longer belt 915
LWB = Shorter belt 905

Your profile and text does not specify your vehicle specifics.
If you happen to have the LWB, perhaps the power steering pump pulley has been changed to the larger one by mistake.

I agree, I think the belt is too short. Its not hurting anything and the belt looks fairly new. I will be sure to get the bigger one when I start putting my "winter" emergency kit together. Thanks for all the replies.
 

redbandit98

Original poster
Member
Aug 8, 2012
28
WarGawd said:
I do recall a thread on the OS that said that most parts places spec the wrong belt on the XL models. FWIW the Gates K060915 belt is 1-1/4" longer than the K060905 - ALL of the parts places near me said I needed the 915, even though from the VIN I knew I had the 150A alternator it still required the 905.

Generalizing, a shorter belt would tend to push the tensioner toward the crank pulley, conversely the longer belt allows the tensioner to rotate a bit further away.
Can't find my reference ATM, but somewhere I vaguely recall it mentioned that the 150A alternators have a smaller pulley than they used to (something like that). But without your (redbandit) profile details, it's hard to speculate.

Here's a pic of mine for another comparison, though it's hard to get any decent angles. I had plenty of clearance to get the old belt off and new belt on, even though the space still looks on the small side:

View attachment 10050


thanks for that picture. Yes, I can tell from the picture you have a lot more room than me. All I really do is relieve the pressure on mine and it hits. Im talking maybe 1/16" at most. Im pretty sure its the wrong belt.
 

Sparky

Member
Dec 4, 2011
12,927
Yeah, that is really close. Mine looks more like WarGawd's does.

jimmyjam said:
i'll slide it off of the water pump pulley first since it doesn't ride the rib side of the belt you can just push it off

Oh sure, make me look stupid for not doing it that way lol :crazy:
 

Wooluf1952

Member
Nov 20, 2011
2,663
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
nospark said:
I can hook the belt with pinky finger, pull on the belt and the tensioner moves easily. Should there be more tension than that? Thanks


IMHO, yes. If you can easily slide the belt off any pulley, something is wrong.
 

WarGawd

Member
Sep 2, 2012
468
Wooluf1952 said:
IMHO, yes. If you can easily slide the belt off any pulley, something is wrong.

2nd that - I know how much force I had to apply to a 3/8" short-handled ratchet to move that tensioner, it wasn't exactly light! If you can move it by pinky, my opinion only, there's definitely a problem somewhere
 

CaptainXL

Member
Dec 4, 2011
2,445
nospark said:
I can hook the belt with pinky finger, pull on the belt and the tensioner moves easily. Should there be more tension than that? Thanks


Yes. Go get a new belt and tensioner and be done with it. Definitely would not drive it that way. Ever see a serpentine belt shred? Dangerous man.

Like everyone is saying Compare the new and old belt length. The factory tensioner only lasts so long. Like the plugs and O2 sensor i would change the tensioner and idler at 100k. Mine were trashed at 110k.
 

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