Temp going over 210

fadyasha

Original poster
Member
Dec 21, 2011
1,134
Hey guys so been experiencing some extra heat now that the summer is here when got the AC on. It's reaching to about 230 and sticks there. This happens during the afternoons when temperatures are hitting above 40 degrees not to mention humidity. Is this a problem? I'm pretty sure it's normal but wanted to make sure first.

T-stat is good and was changed less than a year ago, fan clutch and water pump are new, oil changes yada yada all done regularly...

Temp doesn't go beyond 230 when in Idle so that's good too.

Now with that being said I was thinking of getting the new Efan setup from PCMFORLESS. Is that a choice for me since i'm Saudi Arabia :undecided:! temperatures reach 50 degrees here :eek:
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,599
Ottawa, ON
Have a read of this thread.
http://gmtnation.com/f23/actual-operating-temp-issue-3348/
In that particular situation, is was a dirty radiator. Give the condenser and radiator a good cleaning with a pressure washer.

For efans, I wouldn't go that route given the heat you have to deal with. Anything having to deal with heavy towing or a lot of heat, some people have reported issues with keeping the engine cool. If you are already having the PCM tuned, have them turn off the fan codes and go with a 2008 style fan clutch which is less problematic.
 

The_Roadie

Lifetime VIP Donor
Member
Nov 19, 2011
9,957
Portland, OR
230 isn't normal. If it isn't external blocking of the radiator airflow, consider an interior radiator cleaning and flow test.
 

CaptainXL

Member
Dec 4, 2011
2,445
the roadie said:
230 isn't normal. If it isn't external blocking of the radiator airflow, consider an interior radiator cleaning and flow test.

Why not ask him how he knows its 230? In my experience he needs to hook up a scan tool and get an actual reading from the cts.
 

fadyasha

Original poster
Member
Dec 21, 2011
1,134
I'm ready for a radiator flush. Is there a how-to anywhere? I went through this thread but not really sure http://gmtnation.com/f25/coolant-flush-procedure-1820/

I took my car to a local shop yesterday after getting back and he was saying he'll need to take off the complete radiator which involves removing the fan clutch of course. Clean it while it's off then put everything back together. Why does everything have to be so frigging complicated here? lol:undecided:
 

woody79

Member
Dec 3, 2011
351
fadyasha said:
I'm ready for a radiator flush. Is there a how-to anywhere? I went through this thread but not really sure http://gmtnation.com/f25/coolant-flush-procedure-1820/

I took my car to a local shop yesterday after getting back and he was saying he'll need to take off the complete radiator which involves removing the fan clutch of course. Clean it while it's off then put everything back together. Why does everything have to be so frigging complicated here? lol:undecided:

Not to much help I know but .... If you have access to a Haynes manual or equivalent, there is a good procedure for flushing the cooling systems. Not to sure if it gets everything in the engine block, but its a start. Just my :twocents:

I plan on using the procedure int he Haynes manual once I reach 100,000 miles.
 

rmsg0040

Member
Dec 10, 2011
285
When I bought the prestone coolant, they had a small bottle of super radiator flush. Picked up 2 bottles of radiator flush and 2 bottles of coolant. I followed those instructions.

Cooling System Treatments | Car Care | Products | Prestone® Canada

1.With engine off and cool, remove radiator cap.* Drain radiator then close draincock.
2.Pour entire contents of Prestone® Super Radiator Flush into radiator and fill with water. For systems larger that 12 quarts, use two bottles.
3.Run engine with heater on highest temperature setting for 10 minutes after reaching normal operating temperature.
4.With engine off and cool, remove radiator cap, drain radiator, and close draincock. Refill with water and replace radiator cap to fully closed position. Repeat step #3.
5.Stop engine and allow to cool. Remove radiator cap, drain system and close draincock. Add enough recommended coolant to achieve a 50-70% concentration. Top off radiator with water. Replace radiator cap to fully closed position. Run engine for 20 minutes to mix coolant/water.
6.If equipped with a non-pressurized coolant reservoir, rinse, drain, and refill with a 50-70% solution of the coolant and water.
 

fadyasha

Original poster
Member
Dec 21, 2011
1,134
rmsg0040 said:
When I bought the prestone coolant, they had a small bottle of super radiator flush. Picked up 2 bottles of radiator flush and 2 bottles of coolant. I followed those instructions.

Cooling System Treatments | Car Care | Products | Prestone® Canada

1.With engine off and cool, remove radiator cap.* Drain radiator then close draincock.
2.Pour entire contents of Prestone® Super Radiator Flush into radiator and fill with water. For systems larger that 12 quarts, use two bottles.
3.Run engine with heater on highest temperature setting for 10 minutes after reaching normal operating temperature.
4.With engine off and cool, remove radiator cap, drain radiator, and close draincock. Refill with water and replace radiator cap to fully closed position. Repeat step #3.
5.Stop engine and allow to cool. Remove radiator cap, drain system and close draincock. Add enough recommended coolant to achieve a 50-70% concentration. Top off radiator with water. Replace radiator cap to fully closed position. Run engine for 20 minutes to mix coolant/water.
6.If equipped with a non-pressurized coolant reservoir, rinse, drain, and refill with a 50-70% solution of the coolant and water.

Thanks for the instructions. I think there would be a bit of amendment when draining the radiator. The engine should be warmed up from what's been posted in another thread in order for the T-stat to be open allowing a complete drain.
 

CaptainXL

Member
Dec 4, 2011
2,445
fadyasha said:
Thanks for the instructions. I think there would be a bit of amendment when draining the radiator. The engine should be warmed up from what's been posted in another thread in order for the T-stat to be open allowing a complete drain.

Not a problem if you flush and then rinse and then change out the t-stat which probably should be done anyway considering the coolant has been neglected.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,599
Ottawa, ON
Unless the engine is at thermostat opening temp (190+), it won't matter and as soon as that cold water hits it, it will close. I think the only true way is to use a heater hose flush attachment and run tap water. this would get everything out. If you have hard water, then the only other way would be to drain, fill with distilled water, run until it's hot, cool and drain, fill again with water, and repeat until it's clear.
 

rmsg0040

Member
Dec 10, 2011
285
Easy process, make sure you got a nice size pan and some slip joint pliers or other device for the lower hose clamp. Oh and forget about waiting for the engine to fully cool when doing the process, wait 5 minutes to cool, then use tongue and groove pliers and some thick gloves to remove the radiator cap so you dont get burned. If you wait for the engine to fully cool, you will be there all day. Should be about 1.5 to 2 hr job.
 

McGMT

Member
Jun 17, 2012
621
CaptainXL said:
Why not ask him how he knows its 230? In my experience he needs to hook up a scan tool and get an actual reading from the cts.

I have notice there's people that say their gauge is wrong. I checked my 06 TB and it changes right along with the coolant temp.. Up hill it does its climb and then downhill especially when using engine braking it drops with the coolant temp down to around 190... So, at least the one in my 06 is accurate enough to monitor the temp while driving confidently.
 

gunrock

Member
Mar 27, 2012
22
fadyasha said:
It's finally time hope this works!

2b5cd0f0.jpg

Yeah keep us posted--I am having the same issues. I replaced my fan, tstat, water pump last year and still getting hot, but only on the real hot days. Generally, stays cool on the highway, though towing it was starting to climb--kicked in the heat to bring it down or less load on the engine.

Assuming it's the radiator (I need to check and make sure the stat isn't stuck open and the hoses), I was wondering if using the Prestone flush would really make a difference considering how tiny the spaces are for fluid to flow through the radiator...plus my radiator is original to the truck and its a 2003.

I was going to do the flush at the dealership for $105 in my area, but a buddy volunteered to throw a radiator in for about the same price from rockauto...but if a flush works, that's easier. :smile:

gunrock
 

fadyasha

Original poster
Member
Dec 21, 2011
1,134
gunrock said:
Yeah keep us posted--I am having the same issues. I replaced my fan, tstat, water pump last year and still getting hot, but only on the real hot days. Generally, stays cool on the highway, though towing it was starting to climb--kicked in the heat to bring it down or less load on the engine.

Assuming it's the radiator (I need to check and make sure the stat isn't stuck open and the hoses), I was wondering if using the Prestone flush would really make a difference considering how tiny the spaces are for fluid to flow through the radiator...plus my radiator is original to the truck and its a 2003.

I was going to do the flush at the dealership for $105 in my area, but a buddy volunteered to throw a radiator in for about the same price from rockauto...but if a flush works, that's easier. :smile:

gunrock

I skipped the flush in the end. after taking a look at my radiator it was clogged up in and out because of all the sound storms here in Saudi. What we did instead was pull out the complete radiator from place and hosed away. First We used a long thin blade shaped tool. It basically looks like a woman's nail filer but with a sharp end and much longer. Then put it through the openings of the radiator. Finally then hosed away with fresh water.

The amount of mud that came out was just crazy... After we were done filled her up with the 50/50 coolant and was good to go. I did a couple of trips today but nothing serious. The Temp was stable during them. I'll need to double check water / coolant tomorrow to make sure she's full to the max and then will see if I can take a long drive, but that depends on how quick I get my Lift installation finished
 

CaptainXL

Member
Dec 4, 2011
2,445
fadyasha said:
I skipped the flush in the end. after taking a look at my radiator it was clogged up in and out because of all the sound storms here in Saudi. What we did instead was pull out the complete radiator from place and hosed away. First We used a long thin blade shaped tool. It basically looks like a woman's nail filer but with a sharp end and much longer. Then put it through the openings of the radiator. Finally then hosed away with fresh water.

The amount of mud that came out was just crazy... After we were done filled her up with the 50/50 coolant and was good to go. I did a couple of trips today but nothing serious. The Temp was stable during them. I'll need to double check water / coolant tomorrow to make sure she's full to the max and then will see if I can take a long drive, but that depends on how quick I get my Lift installation finished

Hmm. Sounds like an idea. I might be ripping out my radiator as well when I get my fan clutch replaced. Glad you found the issue.
 

fadyasha

Original poster
Member
Dec 21, 2011
1,134
Thanks Cap!

So just got back from driving around between highways, roads, traffic lights and feels good to say temps r good and AC blowing perfect.

Now back to my Lift Replacement which im hoping to finish today so i could finally get back to one of my earlier projects and install a frigging head unit!
 

gunrock

Member
Mar 27, 2012
22
fadyasha said:
Thanks Cap!

So just got back from driving around between highways, roads, traffic lights and feels good to say temps r good and AC blowing perfect.

Now back to my Lift Replacement which im hoping to finish today so i could finally get back to one of my earlier projects and install a frigging head unit!

Sweet, good to hear! Maybe I'll be so lucky to catch a break, when I check this weekend. Maintenance has been a savings drainer lately. :smile:

gunrock
 

flyweed

Member
Apr 20, 2012
47
Hey guys...hoping you can help me out too here. I am having "warm temps" show up on my gauge as well. MOST of the year, when the outdoor temp is say 80F and less, my temps will stay a pretty constant 190F...but right now it's HOT...90-95F with a heat index/humidity making it feel about 105F or more!!! I am doing quite a bit of stop and go/city driving and have my AC on Max..and my temps on my gauge look to be hitting about 215-220F TOPS..then when I start driving down the road again, they'll drop down to just under the 210F mark.

Should I be concerned with these flucutations, or does this seem pretty normal??

Thanks
Dan
 

CaptainXL

Member
Dec 4, 2011
2,445
Under load it might be Normal. But if you have never changed your coolant then you need too. Its due every 5 years. So in your case it should have been done in 2008 because vehicles are made the year prior and also sit on the lot.
 

fadyasha

Original poster
Member
Dec 21, 2011
1,134
In my case there was higher temps when there's load on the engine then cools down when at traffic lights and so on. Maybe check your t-stat? Air filter?

AC on max eih? Iive in temperatures that reach beyond 120 F and never did I went more than 4 bars on the AC. Thing is freezing cold
 

CaptainXL

Member
Dec 4, 2011
2,445
Last year pulling my 5000 lb trailer around i normally saw my temps go above 210 mark on the gauge. This year i pressure washed my radiator, changed my coolant temp sensor and never saw it go above 210.
 

flyweed

Member
Apr 20, 2012
47
CaptainXL said:
Last year pulling my 5000 lb trailer around i normally saw my temps go above 210 mark on the gauge. This year i pressure washed my radiator, changed my coolant temp sensor and never saw it go above 210.

this may be a couple dumb questions..but how do you pressure wash your radiator..you just open up the hood and start spraying it down? I'd like to do it, as long as it doesn't involve removing the radiator from the vehicle! :smile:

Also...where is the coolant temp sensor and how do you replace that?

GOOD CALL on the coolant change....I am going to do that this next week. I have an aftermarket CAI, with K&N filter..that I just replaced about 2 months ago. So air filter should be good, althought I hate how it just sits in the engine compartment, where it can suck in all the hot engine air.

Thanks for any help
Dan
 

CaptainXL

Member
Dec 4, 2011
2,445
You pressure wash the radiator very carefully through the grill. Keep it on wide pattern. Routine maintenance stuff been covered a hundred times before. You can use the search feature of the website to see how to do all that.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,599
Ottawa, ON
Not sure if it's as easy for Envoys but with my TB, I just pull the grill off for full access to the radiator. As the Captain said, just be careful and don't put the tip too close or you will damage the fins. For extreme cases, like Fadyasha's, you might have to pull the rad out to pressure wash it properly.
 

Wooluf1952

Member
Nov 20, 2011
2,663
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
flyweed said:
Also...where is the coolant temp sensor and how do you replace that?

GOOD CALL on the coolant change....I am going to do that this next week. I have an aftermarket CAI, with K&N filter..that I just replaced about 2 months ago. So air filter should be good, althought I hate how it just sits in the engine compartment, where it can suck in all the hot engine air.

Thanks for any help
Dan

When your temps get to 215-220, does the fan kick in?
The temp sensor is just aft of the t-stat.
Is the t-stat original?
How many miles on the truck?
My Envoy was running at a fairly consistent 217-219 at any speed, but would go higher when I slowed down if traffic was backed-up or stopping when exiting the freeway.
When I got going again, I'd get the jet engine sound from the fan, so I know the fan clutch was working.
I was going to do a coolant change in September (ten years old). But since my alternator went out I decided to do the alt, coolant, t-stat and temp sensor all at once.
A few k miles and the hot weather we've been having, the gauge never goes over 210.

My long winded point is, think about doing a t-stat and temp sensor as long as you're changing the Dex-cool. (Only use Dex-cool)

As for the hot engine air: Doesn't the OEM air filter cover fit with the after market CAI?
 

flyweed

Member
Apr 20, 2012
47
Wooluf1952 said:
When your temps get to 215-220, does the fan kick in?
The temp sensor is just aft of the t-stat.
Is the t-stat original?
How many miles on the truck?
My Envoy was running at a fairly consistent 217-219 at any speed, but would go higher when I slowed down if traffic was backed-up or stopping when exiting the freeway.
When I got going again, I'd get the jet engine sound from the fan, so I know the fan clutch was working.
I was going to do a coolant change in September (ten years old). But since my alternator went out I decided to do the alt, coolant, t-stat and temp sensor all at once.
A few k miles and the hot weather we've been having, the gauge never goes over 210.

My long winded point is, think about doing a t-stat and temp sensor as long as you're changing the Dex-cool. (Only use Dex-cool)

As for the hot engine air: Doesn't the OEM air filter cover fit with the after market CAI?

Not sure if the fan kicks in..I never really listened for it...At what temp will the fan kick in? I can go out and drive it around and take a listen and see.

The t-stat and temp sensor are original (I search here on the forum for how to replace both of these, but don't come up with a thread or article..any help????)
The truck has 113,000 miles on it. I ONLY run Dex Cool in it. I've never done a flush and fill.

Lastly, NO the OEM cover and box WILL NOT fit with the new CAI installed....so the airfilter, just sits open in the engine compartment.

Thanks for your reply and help

Dan
 

flyweed

Member
Apr 20, 2012
47
LOL.....HAI......Yeah, I guess you are probably partially correct...until you start driving and then forced air comes in through the grill front, etc and such.
 

Wooluf1952

Member
Nov 20, 2011
2,663
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
flyweed said:
Not sure if the fan kicks in..I never really listened for it...At what temp will the fan kick in? I can go out and drive it around and take a listen and see.

The t-stat and temp sensor are original (I search here on the forum for how to replace both of these, but don't come up with a thread or article..any help????)
The truck has 113,000 miles on it. I ONLY run Dex Cool in it. I've never done a flush and fill.


Dan

I could hear my fan at about 220*

Did you buy the truck new? The Dex-cool should be replaced at 5 years or 150k miles, which ever comes first.
 

flyweed

Member
Apr 20, 2012
47
Wooluf1952 said:
I could hear my fan at about 220*

Did you buy the truck new? The Dex-cool should be replaced at 5 years or 150k miles, which ever comes first.

No, bought it used. but had dealer do an oil change over to Mobil 1 full synthetic, and do coolant flush and fill when I bought it.

I think my fan runs all the time.....doesn't the serpentine belt run the fan behind the radiator?

Dan
 

The_Roadie

Lifetime VIP Donor
Member
Nov 19, 2011
9,957
Portland, OR
The fan SPINS all the time due to residual friction in the clutch. Try spinning the fan with the engine off. You'll notice a small amount of friction. Unavoidable in the design. It's not like an electric fan where it's obviously stopped when there's no command to spin.

The electrical control from the PCM to the fan clutch commands the clutch to get stickier or looser depending on how many RPMs the PCM wants the fan to spin at. At idle, with normal temp coolant, the PCM is commanding NO engagement of the clutch and you can stop the fan from rotating with a rag. The PCM is commanding full slippage and no torque.

When you get above 220 or so, the PCM asks the fan to spin closer to engine RPM (as lowered by the pulley size ratio between the crankshaft and the water pump pulleys, whatever that is). Driving along at a decent clip, like 55 MPH, forced airflow through the radiator is almost always enough to keep the coolant at 210 or below, so the fan can slip, not steal much energy from the engine, and you can also stop the fan with a rag. But that's hard while driving along at 55, so most folks use a high end scan tool if they're curious. With that sort of tool, you can look at the parameters COMMANDED FAN RPM and ACTUAL FAN RPM and see what the PCM is asking the fan to do.
 

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