TB 2002 Both Rear Power Windows out

TByuri

Original poster
Member
Jun 17, 2012
57
Ive had a problem with my right rear power window completely not working no sound when clicking either.

Never got around to fix it until a week ago when i assumed it was just the window motor and ordered one. Opened the door panel and hooked it up to the switch and nothing happened.

Went to the other rear left side power window and tested this new motor to make sure it worked and it worked.

Put everything back together to troubleshoot at another time and now both my rear left and right power windows do not work.

My locks work fine but my windows do not. The right rear never worked since i bought the truck used 2 years ago, and my left rear always worked until i tested the new ac delco motor.

Are my window switches gone? If i buy both switches and still does not work what could it be?

Had a friend tell me it might be the BCM if not switches?

Could this new motor have caused some sort of short because my radio, engine no start, and front windows also went out when i tested the motor but thats all fixed now taking out and putting back some relays and fuses.
 

The_Roadie

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Member
Nov 19, 2011
9,957
Portland, OR
Rear windows are locally controlled by the switches in the door, but the BCM is involved in case it notices that the DDM (driver door module) has the lockout switch activated (the kiddie-safety switch). Thus the BCM might suppress power window function in the rear. Do you have a meter and some electrical troubleshooting experience? We have manuals and schematics available here: http://gmtnation.com/f23/need-service-manuals-get-them-here-371/

And plenty of help to talk you through the process.
 

TByuri

Original poster
Member
Jun 17, 2012
57
Yes my brother has all the tools and knows how to use them as well.

He found that there was voltage going to the switches but for some reason they do not lower or raise the windows.

The weird part is the only the rear left window was previously never working but the rear right has always worked till last week when we tried the new motor on that side.

Is it possible to hook the two front working switches to the back ones or they just wont fit?

Im thinking about risking the 15 or so bucks and buying a used working switch.
 

The_Roadie

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Nov 19, 2011
9,957
Portland, OR
The front and rear switches are totally incompatible and can't be swapped. Your brother should access the schematics in the set of manuals available here on the site, and then put his meter on the window regulator MOTOR, not the switch. It may be something as simple as the GROUND for the motor, not the hot wire.
 

TByuri

Original poster
Member
Jun 17, 2012
57
Ok i will ask him to that soon.

Also why would 1 side work and then not work with the only difference being that i connected a new window motor to that side?

After this my whole truck engine start, radio, and all windows did not work at all until my brother fixed mostly everything except the back two windows by simply disconnecting and connecting and tightening all of the fuses.
 

TByuri

Original poster
Member
Jun 17, 2012
57
Solved.

Ended up taking a gamble and ordering a pair of switches for the two back doors that raise and lower the windows and luckily the two windows now work great. Thanks again for all who commented.

Only thing is now my rear right door switch actually raises my window up when i click for it to go down. Also it lowers the window when i press for it to go up. Also it does this process on the main switch for the rears in the drivers door.

Any ideas?
 

pcharm129

Member
Aug 15, 2012
191
I'm having a problem with my left rear window. One moment it worked fine, then the next moment nothing. I've tested the motor (works fine), I've tested the switch (works fine), I've tested the switch wires (power only in orange wire and small brown/white wire (which I believe is for the illumination since its not listed in the schematics)). Can anyone assist me with this issue? I'd really appreciate it!!!!
 

The_Roadie

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Member
Nov 19, 2011
9,957
Portland, OR
Welcome! How precisely did you test the motor and switch? In the door or on a bench?

Might be that ground is not getting reliably to the switch. Have you checked the voltage at the motor when you press the switch while connected to the door wiring harness?
 

pcharm129

Member
Aug 15, 2012
191
the roadie said:
Welcome! How precisely did you test the motor and switch? In the door or on a bench?

Might be that ground is not getting reliably to the switch. Have you checked the voltage at the motor when you press the switch while connected to the door wiring harness?

Hey Roadie. You helped me once before on Trailvoy. Basically, when the window stopped working, it was half way down already. I hooked the motor up directly to a spare battery to roll the window completely up. So the motor is good. As for the switch. I swapped the rear switches to ascertain if it was a switch problem, but it still didn't work. And FYI, all the switches still illuminate. I tested all the wires at the junction point between the door and the truck body, where the rubber boot is, and the results were the same. Power only on the orange wire and the brown/white wire, which is not addressed in the Haynes manual.
 

The_Roadie

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Member
Nov 19, 2011
9,957
Portland, OR
Glad you found the new clubhouse, then. Old place is a ghost town since we left.

I still suspect ground, then. Are you familiar with using a meter to diagnose ground problems? You can have power on the orange wire, but without a stiff ground on the (usually) black wire, the switch can't send full voltage to the motor.
 

pcharm129

Member
Aug 15, 2012
191
the roadie said:
Glad you found the new clubhouse, then. Old place is a ghost town since we left.

I still suspect ground, then. Are you familiar with using a meter to diagnose ground problems? You can have power on the orange wire, but without a stiff ground on the (usually) black wire, the switch can't send full voltage to the motor.

I tested power in the orange wire (as well as the rest of the wires) using the black ground wire. I'll test for 12+ volts through that circuit loop. But I'm sure it's going to be fine. I'm pretty sure that it's not a ground issue.
 

The_Roadie

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Nov 19, 2011
9,957
Portland, OR
That checks the wiring pretty well with no current load. A high resistance ground connection will fail to conduct enough current to drive the motor. Next check the voltage at the motor while the switch is pressed.
 

pcharm129

Member
Aug 15, 2012
191
the roadie said:
That checks the wiring pretty well with no current load. A high resistance ground connection will fail to conduct enough current to drive the motor. Next check the voltage at the motor while the switch is pressed.

Ok, but I think I should say this. I also tested the right rear window switch wires, and they ALL have a constant voltage. Except for the ground wire of course. But on the left side ALL of the wire are dead, except the orange and brown/white. But I'll test it as you've instructed. Can't get to it until tomorrow though. I'll let you know what it says ASAP.
 

pcharm129

Member
Aug 15, 2012
191
Ok. Sorry for the delay. Wasn't able to get around to anything until today. I tested the voltage at the motor, and there is none. I tested the voltage across the other switch wires and they were between 8 and 10mV. Except the orange wire and the brown/white wire. They tested 14V and 12V respectively.
 

The_Roadie

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Nov 19, 2011
9,957
Portland, OR
I got trapped in New England for a couple of days due to the hurricane, but managed to fly home last night.

I'm not at all certain you're using your meter correctly, but maybe you are. Get the low side of the meter connected to a totally trustworthy ground on the vehicle, not the door. Don't trust anything like the black wire at the switch. It may be the problem.

The way the switch works is very simple; it puts 12V and ground to the motor one direction for up and the other direction for down. The black wire on the switch needs to be ground, no matter what way the switch is pressed. If it jumps up to 12V, the ground connection through the door hinge area to the frame is bad.

The orange wire to the switch is 12V. It should always stay at 12V when the switch is pressed.

The motor has two wires coming out of the switch, brown and dark-blue. For DOWN, the brown gets 12V, and the other one stays at ground. For UP, the dark-blue gets 12V and the brown stays at ground.
 

pcharm129

Member
Aug 15, 2012
191
the roadie said:
I got trapped in New England for a couple of days due to the hurricane, but managed to fly home last night.

I'm not at all certain you're using your meter correctly, but maybe you are. Get the low side of the meter connected to a totally trustworthy ground on the vehicle, not the door. Don't trust anything like the black wire at the switch. It may be the problem.

The way the switch works is very simple; it puts 12V and ground to the motor one direction for up and the other direction for down. The black wire on the switch needs to be ground, no matter what way the switch is pressed. If it jumps up to 12V, the ground connection through the door hinge area to the frame is bad.

The orange wire to the switch is 12V. It should always stay at 12V when the switch is pressed.

The motor has two wires coming out of the switch, brown and dark-blue. For DOWN, the brown gets 12V, and the other one stays at ground. For UP, the dark-blue gets 12V and the brown stays at ground.

I completely understand you Roadie. And I'm pretty savvy when it comes to electronic repair. Pretty good at everything handy actually. Kind of a super-handyman. No brag, just fact. I'm 99% sure that it's not a ground issue. I've tested the ground and have seen no reason to believe its compromised. And Im 100% sure that it's not the switch. I'm thinking that there's a problem before the door hinge area, or maybe even with the module itself. I'll have to peel Back the trim and test the wires and try to obtain some more info for you. I'm boggled by the fact that none of the other hot wires are hot, as they are at the right rear door. Thats where I believe the mystery lies. I'm not going to be home until Saturday, so I'll try to get to it then. Thanks for getting back to me. Your the man!
 

pcharm129

Member
Aug 15, 2012
191
So, I finally got a chance to test the switch wires using an alternate ground. The results are the same. Still haven't gotten to the wires before the door hinge, but I should be able to do that within the next few days.
 

pcharm129

Member
Aug 15, 2012
191
Ok, again sorry for the delay. I live in NYC and any work I do is in the street. I don't have a garage. And it's cold as hell up here. So I tested the wires before the door hinge and there's no difference. Any other ideas besides what seems likely to me to be a module issue?
 

pcharm129

Member
Aug 15, 2012
191
Hey Roadie. I'm still having this problem. Do you have any other advice or suggestions for me, before I chalk it up as a bad module? I can't think of any other possibilities...:confused:
 

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