Saab 9-7x AWD problems

[chuckwagon]

I have been having problems with my drivetrain on my 2006 9-7x. I first had to replace the the rear diff fluid. It worked for a while then started getting a binding problem and found it to be AWD not coming unlocked. I just replaced the encoder motor. It seemed to do the trick but then after a tight turn it locked up again. Something seems to be telling it to go into awd and not come out. Any help would be appreciated because it is driving me nuts.

 

[The_Roadie]

Welcome! (Where you originally posted your question on the other site was doomed to not be answered.)

The rear diff fluid is almost never involved in problems like this. Who said changing it wold be a cure?

How many miles do you have, and have you been religiously changing the transfer case fluid every 50K? The front and rear diffs typically get changed at 100K, but grabby AWD behavior that doesn't light up the "Service 4WD" light is almost always old or low transfer case fluid.

Was changing the encoder motor a guess, or was it diagnosed by somebody with a high end scanner like a Tech II tool that commanded the encoder motor through its range of motion and it failed?

 

[chuckwagon]

Thank you, I was beginning to wonder about the other forum. Anyway, I first was having some noise from the back and I am at 100,000 miles so that is why I changed out the fluid. It did work for a while but then started to bind but this time it was different. My friend has a car lift so we put it up on that and found that awd was engaged and would not come out. I did guess on the encoder motor after reading several threads on the other site, when we replaced the encoder motor their was pressure and awd disengaged so we put on the other motor and I ran it around for a while and that seemed to solve the problem but just as I was about to leave I made a sharp turn and the binding started happening again. I have not had the fluid changed in the transfer case so I will do that right away. Interesting as the dealership never mentioned that I needed to have the transfer case fluid changed every 50,000 I of course could not afford their $175 hr. rate after warranty so I started doing my own work but have been very disappointed how much they missed as I have been learning about the maintenance of the vehicle myself. I am going to be getting rid of it shortly so I want to make sure everything is working properly. Thanks for your input hopefully this solves the issue.

 

[The_Roadie]

... the dealership never mentioned that I needed to have the trans axle fluid changed every 50,000 ...

Most do, but the Owner's Manual specifically discusses it. Are you missing the Owner's Manual? Run a search, but it's a "transfer case", not a transaxle, and the fluid is special Auto Trak II you can usually only get from the dealer. You need two liters, and when you open your drain plug, measure the fluid amount that comes out. How much you get may contain a clue as to why you're having problems. Hopefully you haven't permanently damaged the internal clutches.

 

[chuckwagon]

Should I only use AUTO-TRAK II Fluid for the transfer case?

 

[chuckwagon]

WOW that was a quick reply, I was making my correction when you answered me and also answered my next question, you a really good! Thank you so much.

 

[The_Roadie]

I'm not always on line, but when I am I always have a GMTN window open.

 

[eshanon]

Hi I have a 2006 Saab 97X and have had this same exact ongoing issue for quite some time and nobody can figure out what is wrong. Brought it in to several dealerships. Initially had transfer case fluid changed, and it drove better for a while then started binding up. Replaced motor encoder. Drove better for a while and binded up again.

A transmission specialist found some sort of report about this problem and the instructions said to change out rear end differential fluid several times. Did that, at first the fluid was black and chunky, but after changing several times is clearing out. For a while the car was driving great but ...sure enough...started binding up again. Checked transfer case fluid, it is clear. Changed rear end fluid again...but to no avail the car is binding up again with a whiny noise...(kind of like an airplane). The car has been scanned ..and no codes are coming up. Nobody seems to be able to figure it out ...the latest "guess" is that the clutches are jammed in the limited slip rear differential and perhaps replacing it (or even simply just removing the clutches as there seems to be no need to have a limited slip rear differntial in the first place) could resolve the problem. This was suggested to me, but it seems to me that removing clutches are probably not a good idea.

Just very frustrated because I do not know whats wrong and even the professionals don't either. I would really like to get it fixed rather than wait for it to completely break down. Please advise and thanks!!

 

[The_Roadie]

Mechanics who can only diagnose problems if a code gets thrown are the modern day equivalents of the idiot troubleshooters who shotgun problems by throwing parts at them. Without knowledge of HOW THE SYSTEMS WORK and a bit of troubleshooting process cleverness, they're doomed to failure. Differentials have no sensors for clutch problems, and they would have to cleverly use the Tech II tool to check the encoder motor position if it's binding up due to transfer case failure.

If you have the limited slip rear diff, and it's failing, then the wheel scrub (cause of the binding) will only involve the rear wheels. Easy to spot this behavior on sand or gravel. "Chunkiness" in read diff fluid can ONLY be parts of clutch plates or metal. Did anybody analyze the material in the chunks?

You can get an entire replacement used axle for less than the dealer will charge to remove the clutch plates.

If you have a grabby transfer case, you can trivially test that by getting it into a state where it's not binding up, then pulling the TCCM fuse (or the encoder motor). See if it remains free-running. Or remove the front driveshaft from the transfer case to the front differential.

Again, if it binds up due to a transfer case problem, it's more likely to scrub/slip the front tires than the rear. Especially on tight turns.

Has anybody drained/refilled the FRONT differential yet?

 

[eshanon]

thank you for your response! I live in a small town area and options are limited for savvy GM techs. I brought it to one dealer, and they "thought" it may be the transfer case, and changed the fluid in the TC whereby initially it did run better. (Also replaced tc motor encoder on my own after reading something about it online.) Car drove great for a bit. Then the problems started again, and I brought it to another person, who is really more of a transmission specialist but also does have the GM tech tools - this person test drove it and felt the issue was coming from the rear end and is the person who has changed out the fluid in the rear end several times. He did not analyze the dirty fluid but it was very dirty and after several changes is not so bad.

Ha...see I do NOT know how the system works at all and nobody who has seen it really does not know it that well either...nobody has ever mentioned the FRONT end differntial. Very good point. I feel that the binding is really coming from the front as well as this moaning sound and vibration that seems to be coming from the front (vibration under my feet when idling.) I am familiar with what a car feels like with transmission issues and I am almost positive it has nothing to do with that. Definitely a drivetrain issue but WHERE is the question...don't want to spend money on fixing the WRONG thing.

Your points assist with attempting to really pin point the problem... I will print this out and give it to the next tech I bring it to. Thanks again...

PS IF anybody reading this has had this issue and resolved it, please advise!

 

[Chevy-SS]

Mechanics who can only diagnose problems if a code gets thrown are the modern day equivalents of the idiot troubleshooters who shotgun problems by throwing parts at them. Without knowledge of HOW THE SYSTEMS WORK and a bit of troubleshooting process cleverness, they're doomed to failure. Differentials have no sensors for clutch problems, and they would have to cleverly use the Tech II tool to check the encoder motor position if it's binding up due to transfer case failure.

If you have the limited slip rear diff, and it's failing, then the wheel scrub (cause of the binding) will only involve the rear wheels. Easy to spot this behavior on sand or gravel. "Chunkiness" in read diff fluid can ONLY be parts of clutch plates or metal. Did anybody analyze the material in the chunks?

You can get an entire replacement used axle for less than the dealer will charge to remove the clutch plates.

If you have a grabby transfer case, you can trivially test that by getting it into a state where it's not binding up, then pulling the TCCM fuse (or the encoder motor). See if it remains free-running. Or remove the front driveshaft from the transfer case to the front differential.

Again, if it binds up due to a transfer case problem, it's more likely to scrub/slip the front tires than the rear. Especially on tight turns.

Has anybody drained/refilled the FRONT differential yet?

Heya 'roadie', many thanks for the reply. I am 'eshanon's' Dad.

When this problem originally cropped up, I did some research and ended up replacing the encoder motor. This seemed to work for a while. But now, after numerous visits to local Saab/GM dealer and to a very experienced transmission shop, the same problem is recurring, as my daughter has described.

I am an old-school mechanic. I had two full service stations operating back in the 70's. I consider myself very qualified to work on older vehicles, but I am not up-to-date on all this computer controlled stuff. I used to do a lot of high-performance work for the locals, mostly on muscle cars (like the ones you see on Mecum or Barret-Jackson auctions). Man, those were some fun times.....

Anyway, I am most curious as to your reasoning on a potential problem with the front diff. The vehicle does have limited slip rear diff. But on the front, how could the front diff possibly be producing the symptoms as described?

Again, thanks for all your help. Good stuff.

Dave in RI

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[BRomanJr]

Heya 'roadie', many thanks for the reply. I am 'eshanon's' Dad.

When this problem originally cropped up, I did some research and ended up replacing the encoder motor. This seemed to work for a while. But now, after numerous visits to local Saab/GM dealer and to a very experienced transmission shop, the same problem is recurring, as my daughter has described.

I am an old-school mechanic. I had two full service stations operating back in the 70's. I consider myself very qualified to work on older vehicles, but I am not up-to-date on all this computer controlled stuff. I used to do a lot of high-performance work for the locals, mostly on muscle cars (like the ones you see on Mecum or Barret-Jackson auctions). Man, those were some fun times.....

Anyway, I am most curious as to your reasoning on a potential problem with the front diff. The vehicle does have limited slip rear diff. But on the front, how could the front diff possibly be producing the symptoms as described?

Again, thanks for all your help. Good stuff.

Dave in RI

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I was a member on the old site and have experience working on many vehicles. Also some of this wisdom originates from reading Roadies' posts.

Roadie mentioned the front differential because it is prone to leaks and holds a relatively small amount of oil. When it gets low, it will bind just like any other diff.

From "eshanon" previous post: Checked transfer case fluid, it is clear
Please confirm that GM Auto Trac II fluid was used in the Transfer Case, is has a BLUE color, any other fluid will make this problem worse.

 

[The_Roadie]

Heya 'roadie', many thanks for the reply. I am 'eshanon's' Dad.

Welcome!

When this problem originally cropped up, I did some research and ended up replacing the encoder motor.

Generally, a bad encoder motor will light up the "Service 4WD" lamp and you can read a code with a decent (not low end) scan tool. The essence of an encoder motor is that it has a position feedback sensor to report back to the TCCM that it successfully moved to its commanded position. If it fails to move by virtue of a dead motor, jammed planetary reduction gears, or a jammed transfer case internals, the Transfer Case Control Module will notice and complain. That's why I wouldn't immediately suspect the encoder motor unless you also had a code thrown.

I am an old-school mechanic. I had two full service stations operating back in the 70's. I consider myself very qualified to work on older vehicles, but I am not up-to-date on all this computer controlled stuff. I used to do a lot of high-performance work for the locals, mostly on muscle cars (like the ones you see on Mecum or Barret-Jackson auctions). Man, those were some fun times.....

Very, very cool. I'm an electrical engineer, with a 38 year career in designing and maintaining semiconductor test systems. Amateur working on cars, but when I bought the Roadiemobile, I also bought the factory shop manual and spent over a month of nights and weekends reading it cover to cover. So the theory of operation for the various systems is now in my head and I can't seem to get rid of it. And some things weren't totally detailed in the manual, but I know how the designers must have thought, and some things like HVAC actuators, failed on my truck and I was frugal enough to want to understand and fix the dead item instead of just buying new ones. So a lot of my posts, especially years ago on the other site we all met at, go deep into the theory of operation of esoteric systems like the HVAC and 4WD.

Anyway, I am most curious as to your reasoning on a potential problem with the front diff. The vehicle does have limited slip rear diff. But on the front, how could the front diff possibly be producing the symptoms as described?

A front diff failure is usually accompanied by grinding noises and broken bits of gears, but if the noises are misinterpreted, the intermittent jamming can be thought of as binding. But again, a few minutes on a sand or gravel surface with an outside observer should reveal if it's a front end or back end issue.

In the rear, I'm not totally familiar with the options on the Saab, the rarest of the six marques using the GMT360 platform. But except for the Trailblazer SS, I didn't think any others came with the G86 LSD. A bit of Googling says that's true. All the other five marques had the G80 automatic locker as an option, but the Saab only had an LSD, on both the 5.3 and the 6.0 L V8s. Has nobody pulled the rear diff cover and inspected the clutches?

 

[Chevy-SS]

...... Has nobody pulled the rear diff cover and inspected the clutches?

Yes, the trans shop guy pulled the cover. But he did not remove the clutch packs (two, I believe) for thorough inspection. He seemed to think it might be difficult to locate replacement clutch packs.

But the vehicle is doing a lot of whining, and it really does feel like full-time 4WD is engaged. I own a Chevy 4WD K1500 Silverado, and my daughter's Saab feels like my Silverado does when I have the Silverado's 4WD button selected.

We are gonna try driving on a sandy lot, and I may remove the front driveshaft (assuming this won't cause a giant fluid dump) to test.

It's a very perplexing problem, because every time we perform a service (change encoder motor OR change transfer case fluid OR change rear diff fluid) it seems like the problem goes away for a while and then re-appears. Very frustrating to diagnose, even for dealer techs and my trans shop guy (with 30 years experience).

Many thanks for help. Much appreciated!

Dave

 

[deekster_caddy]

I'm with this:

Please confirm that GM Auto Trac II fluid was used in the Transfer Case, is has a BLUE color, any other fluid will make this problem worse.

 

[Chevy-SS]

I'm with this:

Originally Posted by BRomanJr;
Please confirm that GM Auto Trac II fluid was used in the Transfer Case, is has a BLUE color, any other fluid will make this problem worse.

Is this fluid readily available at local parts stores, does anyone know? EDIT: looks like dealer or online only. Has anyone used substitute fluid (Royal Purple, for instance) with better results?

Also, can I change this fluid in my driveway? (man, I miss the old days when I had 5 lifts under my command, LOL).

Thanks so much and;

HAPPY MEMORIAL DAY! View attachment 21095

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[The_Roadie]

Usually a GM dealer-only item.

Easy to change

[video=youtube;qcjiWgNWD3Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcjiWgNWD3Q[/video]

 

[Chevy-SS]

Usually a GM dealer-only item.

Easy to change......

Thanks man! The little vid is handy.

Hey, on the limited slip rear diff, I have seen where some guys utilize a fluid change PLUS an 'additive' to free up the clutches. Do you what the 'additive' might be???

Thanks again....

Dave

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[The_Roadie]

Many LSDs need a clutch additive to prevent grabbiness and sketchy activation. Sometimes it reduces noise and chatter. The automatic locker (G80) option most of us have does not need the additive, but yours might. Since the manual says to use 75W-90 synthetic, many of us use Mobil 1, and my local parts store carries only Mobil 1 LS 75W-90 that has the additive already in it. We never had access to PDFs of the Saab manual like we did the Envoy and Trailblazer. What does yours say?

Oh..... a quick Googling found me a 2009 manual. Cool. It says to use an additive. Everybody with a Saab, get yours while you can: Index of /owners-manual/saab

View attachment 21098

 

[Chevy-SS]

Many LSDs need a clutch additive to prevent grabbiness and sketchy activation. Sometimes it reduces noise and chatter. The automatic locker (G80) option most of us have does not need the additive, but yours might. Since the manual says to use 75W-90 synthetic, many of us use Mobil 1, and my local parts store carries only Mobil 1 LS 75W-90 that has the additive already in it. We never had access to PDFs of the Saab manual like we did the Envoy and Trailblazer. What does yours say?

Oh..... a quick Googling found me a 2009 manual. Cool. It says to use an additive. Everybody with a Saab, get yours while you can: Index of /owners-manual/saab....

Thanks again sir.


But the 'additive' I was referring to was a Chrysler additive from another thread that you had posted in. The poster was named "RayVoy" and he posted the following:

"The old way of freeing the posi-trac clutches, was to change the fluid, add a bottle of additive (available at GM parts counters; however, the Chrysler additive was consider the best). Then, go to a parking lot and turn figure 8's. Start with big turns, and get smaller as the clutches loosen up."


So, I guess the first question is:
Is the Chrysler additive "better"?
And if so, what exactly is it?

Again, many thanks.

I owe you a cold one (or two or three, LOL)

Dave

 

[Chevy-SS]

Many LSDs need a clutch additive to prevent grabbiness and sketchy activation. Sometimes it reduces noise and chatter. The automatic locker (G80) option most of us have does not need the additive, but yours might. Since the manual says to use 75W-90 synthetic, many of us use Mobil 1, and my local parts store carries only Mobil 1 LS 75W-90 that has the additive already in it. We never had access to PDFs of the Saab manual like we did the Envoy and Trailblazer. What does yours say?

Oh..... a quick Googling found me a 2009 manual. Cool. It says to use an additive. Everybody with a Saab, get yours while you can: Index of /owners-manual/saab.....

Thanks sir. There was a post in another thread (an older one by 'RayVoy') where he mentioned a Chrysler additive being 'better' than the GM additive for freeing up stuck rear diff clutch packs. Do you happen to know what Chrysler additive he was talking about?

Thanks, Dave


PS - I tried to add a link in previous post, but that post went into the ghostly ethernet for review. I'm assuming I don't yet have enough postings to allow a hyperlink to get through.......

 

[Chevy-SS]

Test post

EDIT - Oh, I think I see my posting problem. I am trying to quote "the roadie", and in there is a hyperlink. I am guessing his link (to the owner manual) is blocking my posts.

 

[The_Roadie]

I think that's it. Low post count members get sent to a moderation queue because they're often spammers just trying to post their payload links. You are REALLY on the ball to have figured that out on your own.

 

[Chevy-SS]

I think that's it. Low post count members get sent to a moderation queue because they're often spammers just trying to post their payload links. You are REALLY on the ball to have figured that out on your own.

Lemme try one more time, LOL. This time, with no links.

On an older thread, I saw you and someone named "RayVoy" discussing this same topic. He mentioned a Chrysler additive that he used in conjunction with a rear LSD fluid change, and then he would drive tight figure eights to loosen up the sticking LSD clutches. Would you happen to know what that Chrysler additive is called?

Thanks, Dave


Tomorrow, I am gonna do a transfer case fluid change and test drive. Then, if no joy - I'll do rear diff fluid PLUS the Chrysler additive.

 

[The_Roadie]

RayVoy is a member here, although he changed to a Tahoe. You can PM him if he doesn't see this thread.

THIS LINK might be a good first step

 

[Chevy-SS]

RayVoy is a member here, although he changed to a Tahoe. You can PM him if he doesn't see this thread.

THIS LINK might be a good first step

Thanks, I'll PM him. The Google search (thanks for the link, I'm not trying to be lazy) was way too ambiguous.

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[RayVoy]

I'm baaaaaaaack, was away for a couple of weeks (didn't have time to log in). I answered Chey-SS's pm, but just so others can see it, I'll update here as well.

That thread was taking about using Chrysler LSD additive instead of the GM additive. Years ago, that was the additive of choice, who knows about today. Today, the axles and diffs are all made by a 3rd party and may be the same, the additives are also made by 3rd parties and may be the same.

Chevy=SS wanted the part number, but I tossed the bottle a little while ago, it was available over the counter at the Chrysler dealer.

The first thing to do, is to drain and refill the diff, freash synthetic may be all that is needed.

 

[Skypie]

Hey new guy here to GMT nation but with serious Saab issues. Over the past year I have had big issues with my AWD Saab 2006 model year. It first started with a condition known as crow footing. The GM dealer replaced the fluid in my rear differential and told me to do figure 8. That didn't solve the problem so I took it to a transmission / powertrain specialist. He found the problem to be the encoder motor on the transfer case that switches it into 4wd and 2wd. However it was too late and I screwed the rear gears. So new rear gears and encoder motor cost me $2500. (thanks GM dealer).
Now this brings me to my current issue. The truck now is whining and it really seems like it struggles to go at low speeds. And when you accelerate to say 30_40 mph and then coast it really struggles to coast freely and it seems to struggle. It also jerks a bit from left to right as if the awd system is powering separate wheels. My transmission guy has diagnosed the problem now to the front differential. He is telling me that to fix the front diff it will require the motor to be removed because the front diff goes thru the oil pan and not accessible from the bottom. The vehicle can also be felt clunking like gears are skipping. It does feel like the issue is coming from the front end but only at the 40 mph speed and below. Once you get to 50 mph and more it doesn't seem to have an issue.
Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[jrSS]

Fill and drain the fluid yourself. Its soooo damn easy. Did they use the correct fluids?

 

[The_Roadie]

Any advice would be appreciated.

1) Quit using dealers unfamiliar with the platform. The term is "crow hopping", encoder motors and inadvertent transfer case engagement can't damage any rear differential gears, and $2500 is insane for the reported amount of work they did. Any chance you still have the receipts?

2) Your transmission guy is also unfamiliar with the platform, doesn't have access to the factory or the Mitchell manuals? People here and on offroadtb.com change front differentials all the time with the engine in but the oil pan removed. All that goes through the oil pan is the intermediate shaft and that can be easily removed from the passenger side by removing the CV shaft and the splined disconnect. Have your mechanic consult the manuals. The engine can stay on its mounts. Is your front diff dry and damaged internally? If you need the vehicle and can use it in 2WD mode and don't want to invest in a new front diff, parts can be removed to downgrade it into a 2WD.

 

[Skypie]

My 2006 Saab 97x is still clunking and jerking. I drained the front diff fluid (very low) and filled it up with brand new fluid.

All at speeds less than 70 km/h. It is very frustrating to drive this vehicle when it clunks and jerks. Its as if it is sending power to the wheels individually - at least the front wheels as I can feel the car swerve left. And the car feels like it skips gears of something.
My mechanic had said that the front diff needs work (previous thread), but the more I listen to the car it seems it isn't the front end.

any suggestions?

 

[The_Roadie]

The transfer case fluid is at least as important as the diff fluid. What's it's age, level, and condition?

 

[kkoether]

IF you have a G80 rear MAKE sure both rear tires are near equal in circumference. A couple of years ago we had to put the unused spare on the RR our AWD Rainier. The rest of the tires probably had 35 to 40,000 miles on them. That slight amount of stagger really messed with the locking portion of the rearend at low speeds. It would feel like the drivetrain was binding up at low speeds then it would pop and free up. I had to move the spare from the RR to the RF to cure the problem until we could get new tires. I caught on to this because of my years of working on and pushing race cars with full time locking rearends. They would do the same thing when being pushed in a straight line because we purposely put larger diameter tires right side to assist with cornering. Worth looking at. You can use a thin tape measure to check the circumference of each tire.

 

[Skypie]

Its odd you mention the tire circumference. I have had a slow leak on my RR and usually when I pump it up it does help, but not completely.

I was driving it today and when I was going about 70-80 km/h it was thudding all the time with a consistent thudding.

It is a 2006 model year with about 185,000 km on it.

Even though it was thudding while driving, most of the clunking comes when I lift off the accelerator when 60 km or less.

I mentioned previously that my mechanic mentioned the front diff, but most of my driving is on dry roads and going in a straight line so the front diff shouldn't even be on at this point (or the AWD).

 

[kkoether]

The front diff is a floater not a locker or even a limited locker. I wouldn't think the front diff would exhibit these kind of issues. Are both of the rear tires the same age? How about tread depth on each rear wheel? Finally I realize this is a dumb question for the most part but are they the same brand and type of tires on the rear axle?

It is also a good idea to change the Transfer Case fluid if it hasn't been done in the last 80,000 km's. Use ONLY GM AutoTrack II which is available at your local GM Dealers Parts Department. You need approx. 2 litres and it helps to have a pump you can screw into the top of the bottle. The pumps can usually be found at Walmart or you local auto parts store.

You may have 2 different issues going on here. #1. Old worn out transfer case fluid. #2 Mismatched tires on the rear axle causing the locking rear to act up. I've been there with our Rainier with both issues at the same time. My transfer case fluid looked like old grey dish water. It made a HUGE difference along with moving the mismatched tire to the front.

 

[Skypie]

I had the vehicle in the shop about 2 months ago and the mechanic took the transfer case apart and clean it out - at least I think that is what he clean out. I will have to call him in the morning. He had said that there is a screen in there?.. and that it was plugged. He cleaned it all up and put in new seals.
As for the tires, you wouldn't believe me but they are original and need to be replaced. The fronts were done a few months ago and I was planning on doing the rears before winter - needed to save some $$$.
I just don't want to put a lot of $$ into this vehicle, like tires, if I am just going to dump it because I can't figure out the clunking noise. It also needs a front tie rod on the driver's side.
But when I have the tires in the rear at the right pressure (45-50 psi) I still get the problem.

 

[kkoether]

I would try moving both front tires to the rear axle since they are new they should eliminate any rear locker issues coming from mis-sized tires. I'm also thinking I've read somewhere that AWD vehicles like 4 matched tires. Not real sure on that though. I'm not sure how the transfer case on the AWD's detect wheel slip. There might be an issue with different drive shaft RPM's entering the transfer case due to different circumference tires between the front and rear.

Also make sure you mechanic used ONLY AutoTrac II in the transfer case. That is one of the few DO NOT substitute oils.

 

[DJones]

I think the 9-7x never had the G80 as an option. Only the G86. You may want to double check.

 

[kkoether]

I think the 9-7x never had the G80 as an option. Only the G86. You may want to double check.

I have no idea there. I'm only going on the symptoms he's describing. They sound a lot like what I went through with our 2004 Rainier a couple of years ago.

 

[Skypie]

Well halalula. No clunking as of last night. Its been 24 hours!

Oh yeah, I should mention that I now have a new light on the dashboard. It looks like a chassis with 4 wheels and a wrench beside it. Hey, but it stopped doing everything that was frustrating the hell out of me. But I am sure that its not good.