Project "Solace"

[OctaneRider03]

sol·ace
/ˈsälis/
Noun
Comfort or consolation in a time of distress or sadness: "GMTN members sought solace after they realized it really WAS possible to drop a twin turbo set up in a 4.2L and that everyone that claimed it couldn't be done is !$@&*#% ignorant".
Verb
Give solace to.
Synonyms
noun. consolation - comfort - relief
verb. console - comfort - soothe

For those of you that have been following up with me over at 4.2L Head Removal/Engine Restoration, we've seemed to find ourselves in the midst of an awakening. It didn't take long to spark a small flame that quickly grew into wildfire through messages and posts.

The idea seems simple. Take a twin turbo set up, throw on a good manifold and IC, then let er' rip. Easier said then done, right? Some are skeptical, some are die hard believers. Whatever your position when dealing with the 4.2L being boosted or not, I invite you to join us here.. This is where it all starts, and NOW is the time to get some brainstorm action going on to make everything possible. Towards the end of this year, possibly around the very beginning of next, we'll be initiating the start of a slow and steady process. My 2WD gets sent off to one custom fabrication shop after another in search of solid parts, and of course the "perfect" tune.

You've heard the stories of the past before. You've seen the attempts made by others with a DIY approach. You already know all the what if's and maybe's that are involved, now let's bring some more light to the table..

Gentlemen, I bring you project "Solace". This is OUR project started from the ground-up with members right here from GMTN. It's an attempt that will be fully backed by the members and of course, funded by me. I'm willing to make my truck the test dummy, and putting the members HERE at GMTN directly involved with what happens to it and what needs to occur one step after another.

We're aiming for a twin turbo set-up. The engine needs to be stripped and beefed up, the tranny follows behind that process as well. There are tons of things that need to happen here. Let's talk about it.

All input is welcomed. We have a considerable amount of time before anything happens, so start throwing out ideas now.. The goal is to gather as much information on what we currently have verses what we'll NEED by the end of this year.. -Octane

 

[OctaneRider03]

View attachment 22745
The GM concept that was never released.

 

[Voymom]

Good luck!

 

[OctaneRider03]

Thank you ma'am!

 

[Voymom]

Thank you ma'am!

Your very welcome! I believe with the right people, the right tools, and the perfect amount of patience and heart, ANYTHING can be done! I look forward to following this project as I have been following and watching the other.

Spoiler

I'm much to young to be a ma'am

 

[HARDTRAILZ]

I expect a solid 3000 horsepower and a video of a 1/8 mile wheelstand

 

[OctaneRider03]

LOL!!! That'd be the day man.. Geez.. I think you need to lower those expectations down a few notches..

 

[OctaneRider03]

The custom fabricator I was recently introduced to gave me a call earlier this evening, he seemed very prideful with his work and still remains to be confident in his ability to produce the appropriate hardware for the build. We briefly discussed "beefing" the motor up and he mentioned a few things that he would personally make sure happened before we kicked anything off, and that is a custom better quality head gasket, titanium piston rings, and stronger manifold set-up..

We touched up on a few possible clearance issues, all of which seemed to have their own "get-arounds". After presenting him with a picture of Chevy's unreleased prototype, he laughed and said that the way they had the two twin turbos set up was ridiculous and overall crappy. He seemed to believe his method to the madness would prove to bring far more effective results to the table and then spoke briefly about the different dynamics involved. All in all, it's pretty cool stuff to hear him talk about!

There was an issue though... He apparently doesn't seem too confident with the tuning aspect of things, and claims that since my TB's an 06, he couldn't run a good tune. He told me that if I had an 08 or above PCM he could work with the tune no problem, but in the meantime needed to bounce more information off his GM tech. I reminded him that we have all the time in the world, and to not rush himself. There is an answer to every issue. It's just a matter of when we'll find it.

This presented itself with nonstop thoughts racing through my head. It seems that in almost every single attempt with running a turbo in our motor, it's never as simple as X Y Z. It's either X Y or Y Z, there's always that ONE deficiency! Weather it be a problem with the placement of hardware, the caliber of hardware that's brought into play, OR even the required tune to bring everything together, there's always one missing link. I'm currently questioning how to better identify this "missing link" so I may be able to better understand our issue..

That's all for today guys! -Octane

 

[OctaneRider03]

I can't take a PCM from an 08 LT and plug it up to an 06 LT with all the same specifications and expect my truck to run... Can I?

This is outside my realm.

 

[McGMT]

I can't take a PCM from an 08 LT and plug it up to an 06 LT with all the same specifications and expect my truck to run... Can I?

This is outside my realm.

Not sure if it would run, but I believe in 08 there was a separate TCM so the tranny wouldn't work...

 

[OctaneRider03]

Got it. Let's look farther into that please. I'll need more information. It's practically the same engine and tranny.. This is interesting to hear.

 

[McGMT]

Got it. Let's look farther into that please. I'll need more information. It's practically that same engine and tranny.. This is interesting to hear.

Yea, in 08 they took the transmission controls out of the PCM and put in a separate TCM back on the firewall, so the wiring would be different and such... If you changed out the harness you would be ok, and I believe between 06 and 08 the crank sensor setup and such was the same, and I know they both had MAF sensors. So that would be ok, just the harness/tcm thing would hang you up.

 

[gmcman]

I like the idea of using twin-turbos, would improve the low-end response. However....I think in the grand scheme of things, you will be much better off with a properly sized single-turbo unit.

What would be the benefit of twins? You will have a little shove just after idle but not instantly. After about 2 seconds of just flat-footing the pedal, you will be long into full boost and would forget about the smaller unit that has been overtakn by the larger unit.

Sequential turbos are a great idea so you can reduce the lag around town, if you are going to build a runner, then I would opt for the single...there are many reasons that a larger single is used far more frequently especially on inline engines.

A "V" shaped motor would fair well with dual units but this is not the case. If you are after neck-snapping off the line performance then you need a SS.

If lag is your concern then power-braking the TB would reduce that.

To sum up my ramblings.....I don't think the expense, tuning headaches, plumbing, will trump a well-designed single turbo other than not having as much eye candy.

Just some food for thought.

 

[OctaneRider03]

Understood. Thanks for helping me gain new perspective there.

It was honestly my initial idea to push for a twin set-up. As you already know at this time nothing is set in stone so it's okay! I'm pretty sure the fabricator wants to throw a single in there anyway, but the bigger issue right now is, after he does it, it's having it tuned. He doesn't have the tech needed to get in there and work with the whole "boost" factor with our PCM.

As I've said, I reminded him that there's no rush here. We need a solid plan of attack before we jump into the fight anyway. I'll keep you posted with what he says..

I'm pretty sure I've read that the PCM's starting with 06 and up were acceptant of boost. Duurrr???

 

[OctaneRider03]

HPtuners anyone?

 

[jimmyjam]

pcm4less is in mooresville nc

 

[OctaneRider03]

The same place I sent mine to.. Love those guys.

I actually thought about them, but didn't know if they did any work outside their own box or not.

Good people, love their work, maybe they can help after it's installed?

Can I get a rep from PCM over here please?! Ah screw it, I'll just call them.

 

[limequat]

The custom fabricator I was recently introduced to gave me a call earlier this evening, he seemed very prideful with his work and still remains to be confident in his ability to produce the appropriate hardware for the build. We briefly discussed "beefing" the motor up and he mentioned a few things that he would personally make sure happened before we kicked anything off, and that is a custom better quality head gasket, titanium piston rings, and stronger manifold set-up..

Huh? The stock head gasket is an excellent MLS part. No need to replace. The intake manifold is also fine. Witness the manifold on the Twin Turbo concept or any of the I5 motors running 15 + PSI. Titanium piston rings? Never heard of them, but ok.

We touched up on a few possible clearance issues, all of which seemed to have their own "get-arounds". After presenting him with a picture of Chevy's unreleased prototype, he laughed and said that the way they had the two twin turbos set up was ridiculous and overall crappy. He seemed to believe his method to the madness would prove to bring far more effective results to the table and then spoke briefly about the different dynamics involved. All in all, it's pretty cool stuff to hear him talk about!

I don't know why he would shit on the tt concept. It's a clever and effective design. They were running 400 hp on a low boost setup.

There was an issue though... He apparently doesn't seem too confident with the tuning aspect of things, and claims that since my TB's an 06, he couldn't run a good tune. He told me that if I had an 08 or above PCM he could work with the tune no problem, but in the meantime needed to bounce more information off his GM tech. I reminded him that we have all the time in the world, and to not rush himself. There is an answer to every issue. It's just a matter of when we'll find it.

I think you're dealing with a V8 guy, based on the comments so far. The 06 is just as easy to boost as the 08. You can run 8-10 psi with a simple reflash and injectors.

This presented itself with nonstop thoughts racing through my head. It seems that in almost every single attempt with running a turbo in our motor, it's never as simple as X Y Z. It's either X Y or Y Z, there's always that ONE deficiency! Weather it be a problem with the placement of hardware, the caliber of hardware that's brought into play, OR even the required tune to bring everything together, there's always one missing link. I'm currently questioning how to better identify this "missing link" so I may be able to better understand our issue..

That's all for today guys! -Octane

It's really no different than any other vehicle. It's just plumbing and tune. Any custom shop can weld you up some tubes and an intercooler and Lime-swap.com has everything you need electrically: reflash, injectors, injector harness.

Good luck!

 

[limequat]

Not sure if it would run, but I believe in 08 there was a separate TCM so the tranny wouldn't work...

Amongst other issues. Primarily, the 08s had a 58x crank reluctor wheel. The PCM is not easily instructed to switch between that and 7x on 02-7 engines.

 

[Opeth]

I told Ryan about PCMforless, I was under the assumption if you were 06+ you had more options in tuning... We've only played with HP Tuners to get a base tune, not sure what they use there. I was his research guru back when I worked there, wish I had more time to help ya out on this project but I barely make it online these days.

If anyone can shove two turbos in there, he can do it. I just found out the other day he had a Kubota snow tractor in to get turbo'd, that's right up there in the odd list category.

Just a warning, boost is a drug, you'll keep wanting more and more. Hope to see this pulled off

 

[OctaneRider03]

He's a good guy man, he's all about what he does and I'm completely on the same page. I'm going to look into PCM4LESS here shortly and see what they can do..

Question

Why hasn't anybody else other than limequat and that Travis dude attempted this??? I mean really? Is it that difficult to do folks?

I understand that not everybody's got all the money in the world, but nonetheless it's still possible. Is it because of all the things that have to be done to the engine internally prior to installing a turbo or what?

Only curious, no criticism intended here guys. Just wondering why?

I'm a real chill guy, so if I say something that may come off as a little forward, my apologies in advance. If you don't believe me, wait until tomorrow night when we broadcast live in the garage again with the reinstall. We screw around and drink the majority of the time..

 

[OctaneRider03]

Amongst other issues. Primarily, the 08s had a 58x crank reluctor wheel. The PCM is not easily instructed to switch between that and 7x on 02-7 engines.

Well well well... The mastermind pioneer himself comes over to leave some good word..

First off I just wanted to say that what you're doing with the engine swap project is absolutely awesome man! I totally support you and your efforts and hope for the best with whatever else you may need to work out. I was just caught up to speed with your story fairly recently!

I'm really interested to see what all you've found as far as general to moderate issues. If I could, I'd call you and pick the hell out of your brain right now.. -Octane

 

[limequat]

He's a good guy man, he's all about what he does and I'm completely on the same page. I'm going to look into PCM4LESS here shortly and see what they can do..

Question

Why hasn't anybody else other than limequat and that Travis dude attempted this??? I mean really? Is it that difficult to do folks?

I understand that not everybody's got all the money in the world, but nonetheless it's still possible. Is it because of all the things that have to be done to the engine internally prior to installing a turbo or what?

Only curious, no criticism intended here guys. Just wondering why?

I'm a real chill guy, so if I say something that may come off as a little forward, my apologies in advance. If you don't believe me, wait until tomorrow night when we broadcast live in the garage again with the reinstall. We screw around and drink the majority of the time..

We're not the only ones

Go to vortec4200.com forums for several projects.

efi-diy runs north of 500hp in his 51 GMC powered by a 4.2. Autoroc is nearly ready to turn the key on his convertible camaro. Jeff Weiser was featured in car craft with his 450HP+ Firebird. Self Racing had their Nomad in the 8s in the 1/4. Frank Kinney is pushing boost in -god I can't even remember what kind of truck it is. Frank also holds a 209 mph speed record for his class at Bonneville (not turbo, but also 4.2).
Notice a common theme here? NONE of them are traiblazers. The 4.2 is a sweet motor, but the trailblazer is a SUV. Turbo I6 just doesn't fit the demographic.

If you have any doubts about turbocharging an ATLAS engine, spend some time in the Forced Induction forum at 355nation. There's probably a dozen guys posting now that are boosting. Some to levels that would make you blush.

BTW, not sure what outputs you're after, but any ATLAS will take 8-10 psi with zero engine mods. It's all in the tune.

 

[limequat]

Well well well... The mastermind pioneer himself comes over to leave some good word..

First off I just wanted to say that what you're doing with the engine swap project is absolutely awesome man! I totally support you and your efforts and hope for the best with whatever else you may need to work out. I was just caught up to speed with your story fairly recently!

I'm really interested to see what all you've found as far as general to moderate issues. If I could, I'd call you and pick the hell out of your brain right now.. -Octane

Lol, don't give me too much credit, I might get a big head The real pioneers are the guys at Self Racing, Black Opel Racing, and countless other dragsters that tend to remain anonymous.

My contact info is on lime-swap.com. Call/email any time

 

[Fire06]

Signed up for the thread and ready to drool!!!

 

[Phantom]

Here is one that might shed a lil light. Single turbo 05 engine in a 69 firebird claims 470 FWHP with 8psi of boost.
Horsepower! - 470HP Turbocharged 4200 GM Vortec Inline-Six Engine - Car Craft Magazine

 

[OctaneRider03]

You guys are the best, thanks! More good knowledge to learn! Hell yeah!! Thanks!

 

[Fire06]

This just keeps getting better all the time. Can't wait for the project to start :wootwoot::wootwoot:

 

[Voymom]

Inspiration? I think YES! lol

 

[Sparky]

Here is one that might shed a lil light. Single turbo 05 engine in a 69 firebird claims 470 FWHP with 8psi of boost.
Horsepower! - 470HP Turbocharged 4200 GM Vortec Inline-Six Engine - Car Craft Magazine

I think you mean RWHP

 

[Phantom]

I think you mean RWHP

nope said FWHP in the article

 

[HARDTRAILZ]

fwhp...

470 flywheel horsepower and 450 lb-ft of torque

 

[Phantom]

even with it FWHP I would still take it!! Would be better than stock!

 

[Sparky]

I was reading it as "front wheel horsepower" and was thing that was all kinds of wrong.

I'm such an idiot sometimes

 

[Phantom]

I was reading it as "front wheel horsepower" and was thing that was all kinds of wrong.

I'm such an idiot sometimes

Just point and laugh kids just point and laugh!
It happens to all of us Sparky.

 

[Voymom]

I was reading it as "front wheel horsepower" and was thing that was all kinds of wrong.

I'm such an idiot sometimes

Even I knew what FWHP meant And I'm a girl...and a NOOB at that

 

[Sparky]

Hah. To make it worse I totally mistyped that post too. I'm on such a roll today. Guess I had better not try to do anything too important

 

[OctaneRider03]

Guys, we got the engine back without the headbolt segments in the block, we go live again tonight! To view the broadcast hit up www.Qik.com/OctaneRider03

We push the truck back in the garage then drop the engine back in afterwards, the live broadcast for this evening will be at 8:45 eastern. The current time now is 8:06 -Octane

 

[OctaneRider03]

Remember guys, you can view our live freed by either smartphone or PC! Hope to hear from you guys tonight! The number will be 910-787-5289

Give us a shout out, advice, a harassment?, or just call to shoot the... You know

Going live in three minutes