Power Steering is fading.... Pump or steering rack?

[ornrydaddy]

Hello All,

This is my first post on GMTnation.... I'm a Trailvoy transplant and glad I found you!

Earlier today while driving my 2002 TB my daughter had to turn around in someones driveway. When she did she heard a bit of a squeel under the hood and didn't notice anything else at first. But as she was driving home she noticed that turning the vehicle was getting difficult.

When I got home I went out and checked the PS fluid and found that it was a little low. I topped it off and took it for a spin and found that as long as the engine is reved up the PS works ok but at idle steering the thing is quite a chore!

Thinking that air might've gotten in the line I jacked up the front on jack stands and moved the wheel back and forth from stop to stop several times with the engine off. While in this state (key on but not running) the steering turned easily. But after doing this several times the fluid didn't go down any at all (no air released).

What does this sound like PS pump or steering rack?

I've not noticed any fluid leaks. However, I've not checked the PS fluid for a long time until today.

Thanks for your help!

 

[McGMT]

Hello All,

This is my first post on GMTnation.... I'm a Trailvoy transplant and glad I found you!

Earlier today while driving my 2002 TB my daughter had to turn around in someones driveway. When she did she heard a bit of a squeel under the hood and didn't notice anything else at first. But as she was driving home she noticed that turning the vehicle was getting difficult.

When I got home I went out and checked the PS fluid and found that it was a little low. I topped it off and took it for a spin and found that as long as the engine is reved up the PS works ok but at idle steering the thing is quite a chore!

Thinking that air might've gotten in the line I jacked up the front on jack stands and moved the wheel back and forth from stop to stop several times with the engine off. While in this state (key on but not running) the steering turned easily. But after doing this several times the fluid didn't go down any at all (no air released).

What does this sound like PS pump or steering rack?

I've not noticed any fluid leaks. However, I've not checked the PS fluid for a long time until today.

Thanks for your help!

One vote for pump... They do go after a while... How many miles on it?

But also your fluid could be trash, check it out. Suck some out into a clear container and see if it is black or a dark red. Could be overheating and breaking down.

Both of those things can cause the steering to get tough as the fluid bypasses or the pump gets weak. But more than likely even if your fluid it trash your pump is right there with it and needs replaced.

Good news though, they aren't too bad to change and they are pretty cheap at rockauto.com

 

[ornrydaddy]

One vote for pump... They do go after a while... How many miles on it?

But also your fluid could be trash, check it out. Suck some out into a clear container and see if it is black or a dark red. Could be overheating and breaking down.

Both of those things can cause the steering to get tough as the fluid bypasses or the pump gets weak. But more than likely even if your fluid it trash your pump is right there with it and needs replaced.

Good news though, they aren't too bad to change and they are pretty cheap at rockauto.com

Well, I forgot to mention that little detail.... I flushed the PS fluid about 50K mile ago. But the TB has a total of 232,000+ miles on it. Certainly got good life out of the pump. I'm just looking for some sort of confirmation that its the pump and not the rack. But I'm like you and suspect the pump.

Thanks for the reply!!!!

 

[McGMT]

Well, I forgot to mention that little detail.... I flushed the PS fluid about 50K mile ago. But the TB has a total of 232,000+ miles on it. Certainly got good life out of the pump. I'm just looking for some sort of confirmation that its the pump and not the rack. But I'm like you and suspect the pump.

Thanks for the reply!!!!

That many miles... Original pump.... Believe me , its the pump... Id bet my left stuff on the pump being done. Also check the rubber areas of the hoses and make sure they aren't swollen or anything. After that many miles not only is the pump shot but the lines could be swelling and starting to restrict flow...

And you are very welcome, that's what were here for...
Welcome to the nation...

 

[ornrydaddy]

That many miles... Original pump.... Believe me , its the pump... Id bet my left stuff on the pump being done. Also check the rubber areas of the hoses and make sure they aren't swollen or anything. After that many miles not only is the pump shot but the lines could be swelling and starting to restrict flow...

And you are very welcome, that's what were here for...
Welcome to the nation...

Would you recommend simply replacing the lines? Also, I was looking at a NAPA replacement which cost a few bucks more but the other stores are located an 1/8th tank of gas out of my way. They recommend installing an inline filter on the return side. Do or no do?

Note: I would've used Rock auto or ebay for the part but I need to get this guy back on the road tonight.

Thanks again!!

 

[McGMT]

Would you recommend simply replacing the lines? Also, I was looking at a NAPA replacement which cost a few bucks more but the other stores are located an 1/8th tank of gas out of my way. They recommend installing an inline filter on the return side. Do or no do?

Note: I would've used Rock auto or ebay for the part but I need to get this guy back on the road tonight.

Thanks again!!

Filter probably wouldn't be a horrible idea with all the junk that's in your system right now with all the miles on it.... Sorry if I missed you doing it since you say you had to get it done today and I didn't reply till just now, wasn't home all day been working on the new house.

Your lines are most likely fine too, its just a precaution to check them out when you have it all apart anyways but they usually last just fine...

Hope it went well...

 

[ornrydaddy]

Filter probably wouldn't be a horrible idea with all the junk that's in your system right now with all the miles on it.... Sorry if I missed you doing it since you say you had to get it done today and I didn't reply till just now, wasn't home all day been working on the new house.

Your lines are most likely fine too, its just a precaution to check them out when you have it all apart anyways but they usually last just fine...

Hope it went well...

Having a little problem with the change out. The pulley puller I have didn't do the trick. I'll probably take it the old pump to a garage and have them change it over for me. I was a bit disappointed in NAPA when they told me they would loan or rent the tool. But they were happy to sell me one for $60.00

The lines looked pretty good to me. But I do have a question about them. My well meaning nieghbor suggested using brake cleen to flush out the PS fluid lines. I'm planning of doing a complete PS fluid flush anyway. Have you every heard of using brake cleen to flush PS lines? Sounds a bit risky to me. I'm concerned that it would harm the rubber lines.

I'll be back at it tonight!

Thanks again!

 

[McGMT]

Having a little problem with the change out. The pulley puller I have didn't do the trick. I'll probably take it the old pump to a garage and have them change it over for me. I was a bit disappointed in NAPA when they told me they would loan or rent the tool. But they were happy to sell me one for $60.00

The lines looked pretty good to me. But I do have a question about them. My well meaning nieghbor suggested using brake cleen to flush out the PS fluid lines. I'm planning of doing a complete PS fluid flush anyway. Have you every heard of using brake cleen to flush PS lines? Sounds a bit risky to me. I'm concerned that it would harm the rubber lines.

I'll be back at it tonight!

Thanks again!

Yea, if I were you I would just use clean PS fluid to clean them out myself... Brake clean can have a tendency to dry out rubber and that's no good... Brake clean is great for cleaning hard parts but I tend to keep them off of rubber parts. Just plug the ends with some fluid in the line, then jiggle it, wiggle it, tip it, flip it, well you get the idea and do that a few times to get the crud out of the line. Even forcing some fresh fluid thru the rack wouldnt be a bad idea if you can have a line on the return side and blow some fresh back thru the rack with compressed air if you have it available to ya. If you do that have someone work the wheel back and forth so it gets completely thru the rack, but that isn't strictly needed especially if you are going to throw a filter in the return line...

Those pulleys can be a PITA to get off the shaft, A good shop press is usually the answer with them, pullers tend to distort the pulley or break because of the heavy load needed to get them off sometimes.

 

[Wooluf1952]

There is a special type of puller for the P.S. pump that pulls at the center of the pulley.
I bought mine fro Harbor Freight for about $10: Power Steering Pulley Puller - Harbor Freight Tools

 

[Mooseman]

Before I changed my pump recently, I flushed the whole system using the old pump. Mine wad just noisy but still worked. I sucked out much as I could from the reservoir (most ppl use a turkey baster, I used an actual fluid suction gun). I used the following method for the flush:

1. Suck out as much fluid as possible
2. Place rags under the pump and disconnect the return line
3. Plug the return connection on the reservoir
4. Connect a hose to the return line an put the other end in a large 1 gallon container
5. Fill the reservoir with fresh fluid
6. Hold the hose in the container as there will be some pressure (I found that out the hard way)
7. Have an assistant start the engine and turn the wheels from side to side. Stop the engine as soon as it's empty
8. Refill and repeat until it runs clear

Don't worry about getting air in the system since you'll have to bleed the air again after you replace the pump anyway.

Btw, just as reference, I had bad results from a Cardone reman I installed last year. Still made noise. I just replaced it with an ACDelco reman from Amazon, no more noise.

 

[McGMT]

There is a special type of puller for the P.S. pump that pulls at the center of the pulley.
I bought mine fro Harbor Freight for about $10: Power Steering Pulley Puller - Harbor Freight Tools

Now THAT's what ya` want...

 

[mcc]

I'd like to add something on the brand of power steering fluid- my fluid's black so I've been doing a turkey baster "flush". I started the flush with a bottle of Prestone PS fluid without stop leak and I've now switched to AC Delco 89021182. It's much more expensive ($9.81 / 32oz + tax) but I've observed that it's noticeably less viscous than the Prestone. I'm no expert by any stretch but that difference alone has me sold on ONLY using OEM fluid (or maybe quality synthetic aftermarket?) in my Envoy. By the time I'm done I should have roughly 9% original, 11% Prestone and 80% Delco fluid in my system.

 

[benz01]

I'd like to add something on the brand of power steering fluid- my fluid's black so I've been doing a turkey baster "flush". I started the flush with a bottle of Prestone PS fluid without stop leak and I've now switched to AC Delco 89021182. It's much more expensive ($9.81 / 32oz + tax) but I've observed that it's noticeably less viscous than the Prestone. I'm no expert by any stretch but that difference alone has me sold on ONLY using OEM fluid (or maybe quality synthetic aftermarket?) in my Envoy. By the time I'm done I should have roughly 9% original, 11% Prestone and 80% Delco fluid in my system.

How much fluid per "flush"? I am going to do this as well and all I have seen is someone reference 4 bottles used. Only problem is that some of the PS fluids come in pints and some in quarts (1 qt = 2 pints). I just want to make sure I get enough.

 

[mcc]

How much fluid per "flush"? I am going to do this as well and all I have seen is someone reference 4 bottles used. Only problem is that some of the PS fluids come in pints and some in quarts (1 qt = 2 pints). I just want to make sure I get enough.

It probably depends on how contaminated your system is. I've already gone through 1qt Prestone and 2qts AC Delco fluid. The reservoir holds about 1 pint and I recall reading that the total system capacity is 3 pints.

The first four changes came out the same shade of black. The last two have been steadily lighter and I currently have most of the last of the 3rd bottle in. I just stopped by the dealer to pick up another quart- I think that's all I'll need to get it where I want it. I took a look with a flashlight after that drive and I can finally see the bottom of the reservoir.

 

[Mooseman]

I'd like to add something on the brand of power steering fluid- my fluid's black so I've been doing a turkey baster "flush". I started the flush with a bottle of Prestone PS fluid without stop leak and I've now switched to AC Delco 89021182. It's much more expensive ($9.81 / 32oz + tax) but I've observed that it's noticeably less viscous than the Prestone. I'm no expert by any stretch but that difference alone has me sold on ONLY using OEM fluid (or maybe quality synthetic aftermarket?) in my Envoy. By the time I'm done I should have roughly 9% original, 11% Prestone and 80% Delco fluid in my system.

Not sure if brand plays a whole lot. ACDelco, being a parts manufacturer, likely gets it from one of the major oil manufacturers. In fact, pretty much all oil based products out there are supplied by the majors. I used about 3 liters of Walmart Supertech PS fluid for my flush, which supposedly is supplied by Exxon/Esso. No problem. Just make sure it is the correct fluid as there are two or three different types. I know that Honda uses a different fluid than all the others.

 

[mcc]

Not sure if brand plays a whole lot. ACDelco, being a parts manufacturer, likely gets it from one of the major oil manufacturers. In fact, pretty much all oil based products out there are supplied by the majors. I used about 3 liters of Walmart Supertech PS fluid for my flush, which supposedly is supplied by Exxon/Esso. No problem. Just make sure it is the correct fluid as there are two or three different types. I know that Honda uses a different fluid than all the others.

That's true, they very likely outsource the production. Compared to the Prestone fluid though the AC Delco is a darker amber color, decently thinner, and even smells a bit different. The Prestone looks more like corn syrup. The old fluid was black enough to make me worry that PS failure could be right around the corner. As such, I didn't want to take any risks with a different brand of fluid.

I ended up using 4qts of fluid and it's now acceptably clean.

 

[Greg Christmas]

Before I changed my pump recently, I flushed the whole system using the old pump. Mine wad just noisy but still worked. I sucked out much as I could from the reservoir (most ppl use a turkey baster, I used an actual fluid suction gun). I used the following method for the flush:

1. Suck out as much fluid as possible
2. Place rags under the pump and disconnect the return line
3. Plug the return connection on the reservoir
4. Connect a hose to the return line an put the other end in a large 1 gallon container
5. Fill the reservoir with fresh fluid
6. Hold the hose in the container as there will be some pressure (I found that out the hard way)
7. Have an assistant start the engine and turn the wheels from side to side. Stop the engine as soon as it's empty
8. Refill and repeat until it runs clear

Don't worry about getting air in the system since you'll have to bleed the air again after you replace the pump anyway.

Btw, just as reference, I had bad results from a Cardone reman I installed last year. Still made noise. I just replaced it with an ACDelco reman from Amazon, no more noise.

Thanks for all of the great posts, I installed a Cardone pump 2-yrs ago. Starting to have power steering problems and was worried it might be rack & pinion, but it is probably the pump failing early.

 

[Greg Christmas]

Thanks for all of the great posts, I installed a Cardone pump 2-yrs ago. Starting to have power steering problems and was worried it might be rack & pinion, but it is probably the pump failing early.

Follow up, I installed a AC Delco rebuilt pump and the power steering is back to normal, glad I caught it before it failed.