Pontiac GMT360

[Envoy_04]

I've always wondered why Pontiac never made a version of our trucks. The answer can't be redundancy, every other brand GM produced made one too. I'd probably own one if they'd made one (provided it didn't look like the Aztec) - I've always been a Pontiac man. Anyone know why they didn't produce a GMT360 variant?

 

[JamesL3]

I've always wondered why Pontiac never made a version of our trucks. The answer can't be redundancy, every other brand GM produced made one too. I'd probably own one if they'd made one (provided it didn't look like the Aztec) - I've always been a Pontiac man. Anyone know why they didn't produce a GMT360 variant?

The closest would probably be the Torrent, although it had the 3.4 V6 shared by the Grand Am GT, Equinox, etc... Looks similar to our trucks though. My wife wants to trade her GA for one, or an Aztec as strange as that sounds. I'm hesitant. Something with her and Pontiacs...

 

[Envoy_04]

The closest would probably be the Torrent, although it had the 3.4 V6 shared by the Grand Am GT, Equinox, etc... Looks similar to our trucks though. My wife wants to trade her GA for one, or an Aztec as strange as that sounds. I'm hesitant. Something with her and Pontiacs...

The torrent is close, but it's build on the same platform as the Equinox. Kudos to your wife for liking Pontiac, its a good choice in cars even if they don't make them anymore.

 

[JamesL3]

The torrent is close, but it's build on the same platform as the Equinox. Kudos to your wife for liking Pontiac, its a good choice in cars even if they don't make them anymore.

I'm not a fan, but that is me personally. I won't hold it against her or anyone else for liking them. I've done all the work to hers, so maybe with the yearly (sometimes more) brake changes and miscellaneous other problems it makes me biased. Or maybe it was paying for it haha. Overall not a bad car, but not my cup of tea.

 

[IllogicTC]

Because pushing out like 5 versions of vehicles with minor variations of things is what I think put them in over their head when the '08 economy blow hit.

 

[BoldAdventure]

Badge engineering as it's referred to literally has destroyed most of the American Auto Market. GM being the king of badge engineering. A good example of how horribly lazy they'd gotten is the failed Pontiac GTO. They literally only changed the grille, nothing else. It was a sales flop becuase it was lazy and not what enthusiast wanted. Now, when Pontiac tried to change it's imagine into the American BMW and launched the G8, that was seen as tasteful badge engineering, becuase it was new and fit the new image.

It's like Chevy and GMC, I mean really professional grade my asshole. You're charging 10K more for fancier leather and a grille. Who falls for that?

I mean sometimes it works, like Camaro and Firebird, they've changed enough of the sheetmetal that they look like different cars, even though both where on the same f-body platform and shared almost every part.

Other times though, you have to wonder.

 

[Playsinsnow]

Badge engineering as it's referred to literally has destroyed most of the American Auto Market. GM being the king of badge engineering. A good example of how horribly lazy they'd gotten is the failed Pontiac GTO. They literally only changed the grille, nothing else. It was a sales flop becuase it was lazy and not what enthusiast wanted. Now, when Pontiac tried to change it's imagine into the American BMW and launched the G8, that was seen as tasteful badge engineering, becuase it was new and fit the new image.

It's like Chevy and GMC, I mean really professional grade my asshole. You're charging 10K more for fancier leather and a grille. Who falls for that?

Those who bought the GMC Envoy "Elite" edition.

 

[BoldAdventure]

Those who bought the GMC Envoy "Elite" edition.

Thought that was called Denali, but now I see the OS thread on the "Elite" package.

 

[IllogicTC]

It didn't help that Toyota was spanking them in the mid-2000s, too. They charged more on average per car, but netted a profit for each one (GM was taking average losses of a little over $2k/vehicle, part of that was the $1500-per-vehicle union healthcare setup). Combine that with Toyota's renowned quality program - a derivative of which we use at my company (we call it 5S, but look up The Toyota Way in wikipedia) and the consumer's willingness to pay for the quality they see (whether real or imagined). Really, up until the gas pedal fiasco they had it made in the shade.

At one point in the 50's, GM held 54% of the market. In 2008, they held 19%. That's 19% of the entire North American vehicle market, EVEN THOUGH they have (had) how many marquees?

Add in a dash of their profit model (designed to profit mainly off financing the vehicles, not the actual sale value of the vehicle itself) and the tendency of management to pull some good old fashioned confirmation bias in an attempt to hang off the CEO's testicles rather than providing any real innovation, and there we go. A big flop.

 

[Envoy_04]

Badge engineering as it's referred to literally has destroyed most of the American Auto Market. GM being the king of badge engineering. A good example of how horribly lazy they'd gotten is the failed Pontiac GTO. They literally only changed the grille, nothing else. It was a sales flop becuase it was lazy and not what enthusiast wanted. Now, when Pontiac tried to change it's imagine into the American BMW and launched the G8, that was seen as tasteful badge engineering, becuase it was new and fit the new image.

It's like Chevy and GMC, I mean really professional grade my asshole. You're charging 10K more for fancier leather and a grille. Who falls for that?

I mean sometimes it works, like Camaro and Firebird, they've changed enough of the sheetmetal that they look like different cars, even though both where on the same f-body platform and shared almost every part.

Other times though, you have to wonder.

I agree on this completely on this point about badge engineering, but there were already 6 variants out there - Trailblazer, Envoy, Rainier, Ascender, Bravada, and the Saab. Just makes me wonder why Pontiac never got on board with a variant - especially given how successful the platform became.

 

[BoldAdventure]

I agree on this completely on this point about badge engineering, but there were already 6 variants out there - Trailblazer, Envoy, Rainier, Ascender, Bravada, and the Saab. Just makes me wonder why Pontiac never got on board with a variant - especially given how successful the platform became.

From a sales perspective it was only a successful platform for GMC & Chevy when we look at units sold and produced. When only have a Saab & Isuzu version because of cross-deals with those companies & GM's holdings.

Personally I don't think it fit with Pontiac's image (whatever that was). Pontiac struggled really hard to figure out it's image in the 2000's which I don't think it finally cemented until it was too late. Bob Lutz has stated that the Obama admin forced them to kill Pontiac as part of the agreement for the Auto bailout in 2009. But also Bob Lutz has revealed that some of the plans for Pontiac pretty much involved a full holden rebadging with a focus on rear-wheel drive vehicles designed to compete with BMW.

Sadly, I'd say Cadillac is the only company in GM that almost died and has successfully re-imagined itself. Even when folks started to accuse them of getting stale, the new ATS proves Cadillac still has it and can do new.

I just wish what happened at Cadillac had spread over to the other brands.

Maybe Chevy will finally improve it's image. They've just rebranded the Holden Commodore (which btw was the Pontiac G8) as the new SS. Granted it's a 40K sedan.

 

[The_Roadie]

I think the six variants of the GMT360 platform was a record.

 

[Sparky]

I think Chevy is gradually improving the image. I'm seeing more "they are nice cars" comments now than I used to. Then you have the new Corvette which, typical corvette style, does blow the doors off so many others, but this time without people complaining about the interior. I didn't quite get that as I thought the C6 interior was fine, but hey I'm no dash stroker!

When you have two cars share a platform but look quite a bit different (i.e. Camaro and Firebird) it works fine. But, when you have two (or more) vehicles that look 99% the same aside from a slight grille tweak and a badge change that's when it gets stupid.

At least the GMT360 family had enough visual variance between them. Some parts definitely look the same but it isn't like they just put a different grille on the front of the Trailblazer with a GMC logo, like how they basically did with the Blazer and Jimmy.

 

[BoldAdventure]

I think Chevy is gradually improving the image. I'm seeing more "they are nice cars" comments now than I used to. Then you have the new Corvette which, typical corvette style, does blow the doors off so many others, but this time without people complaining about the interior. I didn't quite get that as I thought the C6 interior was fine, but hey I'm no dash stroker!

When you have two cars share a platform but look quite a bit different (i.e. Camaro and Firebird) it works fine. But, when you have two (or more) vehicles that look 99% the same aside from a slight grille tweak and a badge change that's when it gets stupid.

At least the GMT360 family had enough visual variance between them. Some parts definitely look the same but it isn't like they just put a different grille on the front of the Trailblazer with a GMC logo, like how they basically did with the Blazer and Jimmy.

Being a Corvette guy/owner I have to say the C6 was an improvement in design over the C5, but... the interior was rental car quality. It was a snooze fest. People expected more. With the C7 I feel they knocked it out of the ball park in a lot of ways.

Hopefully GM finally fixed the floppy back panel.

 

[IllogicTC]

With the C7 I feel they knocked it out of the ball park in a lot of ways.

Only one key issue (and that isn't the different-shaped tail lights someone mentioned somewhere a while back) - they never really brought the aggressive wheel flares back. I think there's a reason that C3 was able to stay the way it was (after adding the flares) for nearly 2 decades. That look was HOT. Now it's all lines that evoke the thought, and some slight raises, but that wheel flare gave it a more interesting look than I think the engineers credit it for.


I do like the way Cadillac looks. I didn't think I would like it, but those "vertical" headlights actually give it a pretty sleek look that I enjoy.

People older than myself can remember when Pontiac was branded as performance. Trans Am, Firebird, GTO... a bunch of older stuff too had a very sporty look even if they weren't really meant for speed, like the Astre and the original Sunbirds. They simmered down for a while there, tapping into their racing roots here and there (with a styling that looked "hot" for most vehicles), but I think overall the dilution of a name synonymous with fast cars to one making mom-mobiles didn't do them any justice.

 

[Envoy_04]

People older than myself can remember when Pontiac was branded as performance. Trans Am, Firebird, GTO... a bunch of older stuff too had a very sporty look even if they weren't really meant for speed, like the Astre and the original Sunbirds. They simmered down for a while there, tapping into their racing roots here and there (with a styling that looked "hot" for most vehicles), but I think overall the dilution of a name synonymous with fast cars to one making mom-mobiles didn't do them any justice.

I'm 20, and I always saw Pontiac as sportier, or more performance driven, if you will, up until their later years. It's a shame too, they were in part responsible for the beginning of the original muscle car craze! Of course, I always paid more attention to older cars too. As I was growing up there just weren't a whole lot of cars that excited me a whole lot - the look was overall just not what I liked. It's just now getting to the point in vehicles these last couple years where there are some new cars that I actually like the looks of.

I agree that the C6 was a great design that was befell by its interior. When you pay top end sports car prices you expect a little nicer interior than what they had. The new Corvettes are smokin though! (Even though it was me who mentioned the taillights being Camaro-esque) I also am a fan of Cadillac's CTS coupes, not just the blown 6.2 V variant either. The regular model has 318 HP or something like that. I think Cadillac is rebranding itself into what Pontiac was as a performance car manufacturer, only classier and much more modern.

 

[Billdaman]

The GMT 305 was very close to a Pontiac GMT 360 as it was funded and lead by Pontiac brand management and marketing

 

[Mooseman]

The FWD vans was one they really went stupid with. There was the Pontiac Montana SV6 (I own an '08 LWB), Chevy Uplander, Saturn Relay, Buick Terraza, Buick GL8, although the GL8 looked really different than the others. The previous generation was no better where Olds had the Silhouette, which was also available in the other lines ad nauseum with the Montana, Venture and GL8.