PLEASE HELP - Stuck with no crank

[flyboy]

I have a '07 SAAB 9-7X that just lost the ability to crank the starter. I have checked the relay and found the following:
- Jumping pins #30/#87 will crank and start the car
- No power at pin #86
- No ground during start at pin #85

- INTERESTING NOTE - When I started the car by temporarily jumping #30/#87, then put the relay back in, I drove it around the block and (while it ran smooth and fine) the RPMs on the cluster were just crazy jumping - Not representative of the actual RPMs. When I parked and idle the RPM gauge went to 0. Turned the car off and it still will not crank.

I'm out of ideas about what could be causing this. Any help is greatly appreciated!!!

 

[Up And Down]

I’d start with the ignition switch. It’s a cheap part and causes all sorts of crazy things to happen including a lot of what you’ve described.

 

[flyboy]

That would be great if it weren't a discontinued part... Gotta find one used I hope...

 

[Up And Down]

It might be discontinued from the dealer but it is readily available brand new from several aftermarket companies. I would recommend getting the AC Delco part which is number D1426D.

 

[Mooseman]

A search would have yielded several threads on this, including this one from the FAQ:

No Crank, Like Attempting To Start In Drive

 

[flyboy]

Thanks Mooseman. I appreciate the help. I actually did watch the video and read the threads. Perhaps I just don't understand properly, but how do I identify if it's the park/neutral switch, the ignition switch or the PCM? I have no power to the relay control when the car is on and no grounding when I turn the key to start. (and strange RPM gauge behavior when I manually start the car from the relay)

I can purchase a new park/neutral switch. However the 9-7x ignition switch (in the center console) is different from the trailblazer one and is discontinued and not even available used anywhere I can find... Any help is appreciated.

 

[flyboy]

It might be discontinued from the dealer but it is readily available brand new from several aftermarket companies. I would recommend getting the AC Delco part which is number D1426D.

the 9-7x ignition switch (in the center console) is different from the trailblazer one and is discontinued and not even available used anywhere I can find... Any help is appreciated.

 

[Mooseman]

Oh crap, that's right. The joys of owning an oddball truck. Here's the schematics specific to the 9-7x. And replacing the ignition switch is not as simple as on its normal siblings. It will require reprogramming of the BCM and VATS module because it does have a PK3 chip in the key. And I'm afraid that the only place to find a replacement is used.

 

[flyboy]

Do you think it's the ignition switch or the the neutral switch? I could get the neutral switch locally for about $80. I can't find the ignition switch used anywhere...

 

[Mooseman]

Without doing some troubleshooting, I don't know but I haven't heard of too many of these failing compared to the other GMT360's. Before throwing parts at it, do a proper diagnosis.

One more question. Is the security light on or flashing when you try to crank?

 

[flyboy]

No security lights flashing during start attempt. Interesting additional note: the can has an after market arctic start remote starter that was installed many years ago. It does not require the key to be in to start the car (when working normally). I tested the remote starter and it works the same as the key. Fuel pressure comes up, but no crank. What would you do next?

 

[budwich]

you seem to be good at "inspecting / testing" at the starter relay... that's good. Just go a little further with your effort there.

At the start relay socket (relay removed), two contact points should have power "all the time" (assuming the P/N is good and the selector IS in park / neutral). One contact provides power thru the relay contacts to the energize the starter. The other contact provides power to energized the starter relay coil to activate it IF the PCM provides the grounding... you don't need to go there YET as you need to trace the voltage paths first. Determine which one you don't have and start the tracing.

 

[TJBaker57]

With any electrical issue I ALWAYS use a DMM and follow the power from source to destination. Jumping around all over ,for me at least, just leads to confusion. And replacing parts without actually testing them with a DMM just wastes money

 

[flyboy]

What would you do next?

you seem to be good at "inspecting / testing" at the starter relay... that's good. Just go a little further with your effort there.

At the start relay socket (relay removed), two contact points should have power "all the time" (assuming the P/N is good and the selector IS in park / neutral). One contact provides power thru the relay contacts to the energize the starter. The other contact provides power to energized the starter relay coil to activate it IF the PCM provides the grounding... you don't need to go there YET as you need to trace the voltage paths first. Determine which one you don't have and start the tracing.

I only have power at one of the pins:
- No power at pin #86
- No ground during start at pin #85

 

[budwich]

both pins have fuses... check the fuse location in terms of the fuses themselves and whether the voltage makes it in and out of those fuse holders locations. If you are lucky, you will likely find the source cause of a few of your other symptoms.

 

[TJBaker57]

I don't have the schematics for your vehicle or I would offer specific suggestions. But in general I would start with the no power at 86. Look in schematics, locate that connection, in the schematics follow back to battery to see the path the power follows. Now with the DMM follow that path from battery through fuses, switches, and so on looking for the place where you no longer have power.

 

[Beacon]

For future reference, some salvage yards are connected to a national parts database, and can find used parts for you, and ship them.

 

[flyboy]

Thanks guys. I'd like to try tracing back from #86 to find out why it doesn't have power as it should. Does anyone have the schematic from the starter relay showing where #86 is? I really appreciate all the help because I'm stuck until this is solved...

 

[Mooseman]

Here's the schematics for the starting system.

 

[flyboy]

Thank you for the schematic! I was able to swap in a known good Neutral switch...no help.

 

[budwich]

of course, you checked the fuse positions shown in the diagram... right?

 

[flyboy]

Ok... So here's a lesson in exhaustion, stupidity or whatever you want to call it... Last night, with the help of people on here, I SWEAR I checked the fuses before proceeding to EVERYTHING ELSE...

Today, after budwich says "You checked the fuses, right?" I went back and checked them AGAIN...

WTF? NOW I see #22 fuse blown? Geeze.... Thanks everyone! (especially Mooseman for the schematic) Up and running again! You guys ROCK!