My efan setup (Montana/Venture efans)

Mooseman

Original poster
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Dec 4, 2011
25,184
Ottawa, ON
I couldn't edit my previous posting so here's the updated schematic for those who prefer.
 

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Sparky

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Dec 4, 2011
12,927
So it has been a while since your install, how are the efans handling the vehicle? I'm about to pull the trigger on a Derale controller.
 

Mooseman

Original poster
Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,184
Ottawa, ON
Go ahead with the Derale but get the screw in sensor and get an adapter like this:
[EBAY]330724733892[/EBAY]

The push in radiator sensor is not that precise for the temps it senses. It will kick in fan1 and then fan2 while stopped or idling but they won't turn off until I start moving. In most occasions, when both are running at low speed, it's not enough to keep the temperature from creeping up and kicking in both to high speed, even if I override to have the low speed stay on. I will be reverting to the first relay setup for fan1 high, fan2 high. Theoretically, both running at low speed should be pulling the same amount of air as a single fan on high but it doesn't seem to be the case. I will also order a screw in sensor and adapter as there are some situations where the temperature will creep up past 100C but the fans aren't kicking in until I stop. This is when I am moving just a bit to move a bit of air that's not enough to cool the rad but enough to cool the sensor.

Just another thing, I will have to add a diode to the 12V+ I'm using to supply the Derale (from the fan fuse) because the engine will continue running if the fan1 override switch is on.

It will be very warm this weekend (30C) and possibly towing so I will give an update.

Edit: The Derale sensor is 3/8"NPT and this adapter is 1/8"NPT. Of course I ordered it before checking. Probably will drill it out and tap it for 3/8"NPT.

Edit 2: If you order the Derale controller from eTrailer, use this referral code for 5% off: RMN07A
 

Sparky

Member
Dec 4, 2011
12,927
So how's it doing in elevated temperatures?

Sorry for all the prodding but when I bought the fans I figured I'd be out only $30 at worst if I find that these don't work well in your experience. yeah, I'm using you as the guinea pig but since you did it first why not :tongue: But if I buy the Derale that's a fair chunk of cash there so before I open the wallet that far I want to be sure that what I'm buying is going to work fine.
 

Mooseman

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Dec 4, 2011
25,184
Ottawa, ON
No worries. I know that money is tight and we have to make sure that the investment is worth it.

Last weekend was warm with 25~30C temps. Pulled a small trailer with an ATV (~1500 lbs) to our cottage and no problems with heat, even going slow uphill. Then, during the hottest time, pulled the same trailer up and downhill full of sand several times in 4x4 at slow speed, no problem. I'm still using the radiator push-in probe and it even kicked in properly during this time. My particular problem is that my temp is a bit too low, hanging around 90~95C (actual from my ELM327), basically one tick to the left on the guage (which is actually pretty accurate!). I already have a thermostat and sensor or order and still waiting for the screw-in sensor and rad hose adapter.

I have yet to have a situation where it would get hot. The highest it has ever gone is 105C (221f) and that was because of the quirkiness of the push-in probe. If I turn on the fans manually, she stays cool. With the screw-in probe, it will be a lot more reliable with actual engine temperatures activating the fans. I am also still on the 2 fan low/high setup as I didn't have time to go back to the individual high fans. The only thing I can't comment on is with the A/C since mine doesn't work.
 

Sparky

Member
Dec 4, 2011
12,927
OK cool sounds great. Sounds like I'll wire my fans with the triple relay both low/both high like factory if that is working well. I'll figure out where I can tap in for AC other than the clutch.

Thanks for the report, appreciate it :thumbsup:
 

Mooseman

Original poster
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Dec 4, 2011
25,184
Ottawa, ON
Just finished fixing the A/C and the efans work well with it in 28C temperature. Even just on 50%, the air is ice cold. Can also run the fans at 100% which brings the high side pressure in the A/C system down but no difference in cooling. It may be needed in hotter conditions. Also added a direct coolant sensor for the Derale controller by drilling and tapping into the top water outlet. Now the fans are better controlled by the actual coolant temp rather than whatever it was getting from the radiator push in sensor, which was temperamental at certain speeds.

Now, with this sensor, while idling, the low speed kicks in at about 105C and just that is enough to bring it back to 100C. Before that, high speed always kicked in. I like it now. My only problem now is finding a steady 12V connection when the A/C is on to send a signal to the controller. The only point available is the A/C clutch but it cycles on/off, which I don't want for the fans. I'll look at the schematics some more to see if I can find something.

Oh yeah, I also replaced the Stant thermostat with an ACDelco and also changed the sensor (also ACDelco). Now my temperature never goes lower than 100C, straight up.
 

jack-pot

Member
Apr 8, 2012
1
Would you have any pics of the water outlet tapping? This thread has me very interested in dumping my clutch and going e-fan. Thanks
 

Mooseman

Original poster
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Dec 4, 2011
25,184
Ottawa, ON
Welcome! I didn't take any pics of the actual drilling and tapping itself but I'll try and get a pic of the installed sensor in the truck. I'll also be giving a final update on how it worked out on a grueling 3000Km road trip with A/C running the whole time. As a preview, I can say that we made it back in one piece!
 

Mooseman

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Dec 4, 2011
25,184
Ottawa, ON
As requested, here are some pics of the threaded sensor into the water outlet.
 

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Mooseman

Original poster
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Dec 4, 2011
25,184
Ottawa, ON
Here's another update for those following this (hello Sparky :raspberry:)

The week before, we came back from a long 8 day family road trip (as in "National Lampoon's vacation" :tongue:). Loaded up the truck with 4 people (~1000 lbs), camping gear, some tools "just in case" and luggage. Even with the rear seats down, it was packed pretty solid. Basically left Ottawa to Montreal, then to Boston that same night, then on to NYC, Washington DC, Gettysburg PA, Scranton PA and then home. Total, just a bit over 3000Km.

A bit of history just before the trip. I finally repaired the A/C. Had to replace the evaporator, which meant removing the entire dash. Not as bad as I thought it would be but still a long process. I also had to replace the radiator and while the system was empty, I finally replaced the radiator push-in probe with a screw-in sensor. Much better control with this one since it's not affected by external temperature. A/C actually works quite well although it could be better at idle but I think this is caused by my blocking off the rear system and leaving the original gold orifice tube. The front only systems use a white one instead. Not a big deal and I'll take it with the heat we were getting. Next time I have to open it up I'll swap it. I also replaced the thermostat and temp sensor (both ACDelco).

We had the A/C running the whole time with outside temperatures usually in the 85-90f with some times at 96f in DC and very humid. I would keep the fans running at low with the manual override (haven't figured out yet how to hook up the wire so that it won't cycle the fans with the clutch). The engine temperature would be steady at 95-98C. Only when in slow or heavy traffic did the engine temperature climb above 100C (212f). It did climb to about 105C (221f) in DC in 96f temperature and the full speed kicked in from the sensor. When I saw that, I just put the override to full speed because even at speed it wasn't coming down by itself but did with both at full speed. During the whole journey, NEVER did I fear I would overheat.

Now back and just driving around town here with the A/C off and 20~25C outside temps, it works very well. The fans would kick in at low speed when we stop and it reaches the preset (~105C) and has never gone to the high speed without the A/C on. Usually once we get moving for a while, they switch off. Perfect!

I have really good confidence in this setup for the conditions here and probably up to 100f with the A/C on and maybe beyond. GM could have used these if they would have made the radiator just a little bit wider. This controller works well but maybe the other one I saw someone else mention that taps into the stock sensor and PWM control might work with these fans but I don't know. To me, this is sufficient. I will probably try to find or have built some sort of delay system for the A/C feed wire so it doesn't shut down the fans when the clutch cycles off but that will be for later.

Oh, and how did the TB itself fare during the trip? Had a coolant leak caused by the new ACDelco sensor I put in when I replaced it. I guess I didn't want to put it too tight after reading another member having one snap in the block. Was actually easy to fix in a Walmart parking lot. I'd say 30 minutes even removing the alternator! Yay for no more mechanical fan! So easy! And speaking of the alternator, my Remy new alternator I installed a while back held up very well despite the high load of two fans, the A/C and blower, lights (DRL and fogs always on), GPS, DVD, inverter for running the Western Digital Live player. Despite being made in China, it's excellent. Oh, and the other thing that went was the handle for the rear hatch. Had to empty everything out at the campground in Virginia so I could pop it open from inside. Then I McGyvered a cord through the drain hole to pull on the lock release from outside. Other than that, it ran like a top!
 

Sparky

Member
Dec 4, 2011
12,927
You act like I stalk this thread or something :biggrin:

Two things are keeping me from the install so far - time and money. Money is OK now I think, but time, ehh... I've been needing my truck too consistently to risk taking it down for more than a couple days.

OK here's another question :biggrin: Though I think I might have asked this already and I just don't remember :bonk: Have you noticed any consistent mpg increase on the freeway from the conversion?
 

Mooseman

Original poster
Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,184
Ottawa, ON
limequat said:
Mooseman, what's the overall depth on those fans?

Overall 3.75" from edge of shroud to rear of motor. Shroud itself is 3".
 

Mooseman

Original poster
Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,184
Ottawa, ON
Sparky said:
OK here's another question :biggrin: Though I think I might have asked this already and I just don't remember :bonk: Have you noticed any consistent mpg increase on the freeway from the conversion?

Yep, kinda in post 7 :biggrin: At that time, my butt-o-meter told me my gas wasn't going as fast.

I honestly can't say between before and after because of everything I fixed since the efan install (cam actuator, cat, thermostat, sensor). What I can tell you is that I managed between 17.5 amd 20.2 mpg (actual calculated) with an average of 18.25 mpg. Most was highway between 65 and 75 mph cruise control and A/C on. And this was fully loaded with 4 people, luggage and camping gear. I think this is pretty damn good for an EXT! At its worst before the repairs and efans, it was sucking gas at 12 mpg! I can't wait for the next road trip without the A/C to see the difference.
 

JimHTP

Member
Jul 30, 2012
27
View attachment 25900I know this thread is a little old now but my clutch fan is throwing 0526 and starting to wobble on the bearing so replacement is nigh. I think you have helped me out in a few other threads too so thanks in advance for this...

Is there anyway you could update this wiring diagram to include the AC connections? I can't seem to understand the black and white one without the convenient positive/negative labels and colorful pictures lol

How did you interface with the factory weatherpak plugs for the fan? Or did you ignore them and wire directly to the fan motor?

Just another thing, I will have to add a diode to the 12V+ I'm using to supply the Derale (from the fan fuse) because the engine will continue running if the fan1 override switch is on.

Is this only because you have the manual override switch? So if i don't include manual override and just let the controller do everything there is no issue?

With this setup the fan does NOT start as soon as the car does correct? I assume that is the whole purpose of the temp controller but I am not well versed in this whole wiring thing. Kinda like math to me. I'm trying to avoid blowing shit up with my amplifiers and other accessories and I've heard of people having issues with the fans drawing too many amps at startup
 

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Mooseman

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Dec 4, 2011
25,184
Ottawa, ON
The A/C would be wired to the Derale controller, which would feed the circuits (fan controller 1 and 2). The only thing though is that the fans will cycle with the clutch, which would be annoying and can add more electrical load when they kick in at the same time. There is another controller by Spal which would be a lot better than this setup. It controls both fans by varying the speed as the temps increase and also does not cycle the fans along with the clutch by keeping the fans on for several minutes after the clutch disengages. I believe it's this one but it officially only supports Spal fans but may work on others:
SPAL USA

Those fans should work and seem to be a little bit less wide than the ones I used and on an angle so they might work. You've got the measurements from mine so you could measure these in a yard (or ask the eBay seller to measure them). If they're an inch or two narrower, that would be good as mine stick out a bit on each side of the rad. If you have a u-pull yard, you could walk around checking different vehicles. There were several that looked like good fits. Either way, there will be some fabrication on your part to make them hold in place. The Spal controller would be a better option. I just turn the fans on manually when I use the A/C.

I would use a diode anyway just to prevent any kinkiness between the controller and the PCM. I just have the manual switches for me to use as I am more involved in what is going on but it will work fine without them (like when my wife drives it and doesn't use them) except when using the A/C. Also useful for me when towing.
 

JimHTP

Member
Jul 30, 2012
27
I'm still failing to understand here.

Does your manual override just let you KEEP the fans on after they drop off from the a/c clutch?

Many of the control boxes i've been looking at (there is a ron francis, or jegs version with different temperature sensor types that I could make work) kick the second fan on at 10 degrees higher. When the a/c kicks on does this still hit them both or does the derale unit not have this?

since both fans cycling on full blast with the a/c would be pretty bad, what can I do to avoid this? Does one of your switches control this somehow?

Sorry, I do appreciate the help. There just isn't a manual for this shit
 

Mooseman

Original poster
Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,184
Ottawa, ON
The manual override switches are just that. I can turn them on at will. I occasionally turn them on when stuck in traffic. I have two switches for low and high. How I use them with A/C is like this:

- when in traffic, I just turn on the low speed fans as it usually is adequate enough for cooling and the A/C
- if it's very hot out, I will switch on the high speed fans
- if on a long highway drive, I leave them off as the natural air flowing through the condenser and rad are usually enough.

If you want a totally hands-off system, get the Spal controller. Controls both fans without any extra relays like the schematics in here and works properly with the A/C with no cycling. And it also uses the existing temperature sensor so no McGyvering the sensor into the water fitting. If I were to redo this, I would have gone with the Spal.

The Derale only turns on fan 1 (low) when the A/C wire receives a signal that A/C is on. Using the relay circuit, when the Derale turns on fan 1, both fans run low. When it turns on fan 2 when it reaches 10F higher, that turns on both on high. The Spal puts both on high (slowly ramping up).

Derale Instructions

Spal Instructions
 

Sparky

Member
Dec 4, 2011
12,927
I'm trying to see if it connects to the existing sensor in parallel (so the computer still reads it) or if it replaces the original PCM connection to the temp sensor (which would make the PCM awfully angry). I'm assuming it connects in parallel but it isn't very clear. *edit* never mind, I'm stupid, it does connect in parallel :crazy:

Eventually I want to install efans on my truck, but it may not happen with this particular one. I may wait until the next truck (or if my hand gets forced because my clutch fan goes bad).
 

Mooseman

Original poster
Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,184
Ottawa, ON
Never mind what I've been saying about the Spal controller. No longer available, not even eBay. The Ron Francis (Jegs) units look interesting in that you don't need to tap into the water outlet. The sensor bolts on the outside of any bolt (I would recommend the one for the water outlet). Reaction time may be a bit slower compared to an in-water sensor but still better than a radiator push-in sensor.
 

Sparky

Member
Dec 4, 2011
12,927
Well that sucks!!
 

JimHTP

Member
Jul 30, 2012
27
Yeah that does kinda blow about the spal controller.

Any other ways to stagger the onset or make them ramp up you guys can think of?

Putting even one of the fans on a manual override would help i guess. Leave one of them off at all times unless I need it.
 

Mooseman

Original poster
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Dec 4, 2011
25,184
Ottawa, ON
My Derale controller/relays setup does do that, kid of, by having them first go low speed and then high, reducing the load requirement when high kicks in. So far, I have not had any load problems when they operate automatically but I still use my manual switches (low or high, depending on outside temperature) to keep the fans on with the A/C.
 

JimHTP

Member
Jul 30, 2012
27
OK Mooseman the e-fan master, I am going to be attempting this with my next check. how does this look for a shopping list:
JEGS Performance Products 52126 JEGS Adjustable Dual Fan Control Kit w/ Dry Temperature Sensor (controller)

10 Pcs 40 Amp Bosch Style Automotive Relays Sockets Car Wiring SPDT Relay | eBay

JEGS Performance Products 10801 JEGS Premium Automotive Wire ( some wire)

and lastly, do I need circuit breakers or just fuses between the battery and relays?

should have plenty of wire terminals, heat shrink, soldering station and blah just need the main stuff
 

Sparky

Member
Dec 4, 2011
12,927
Ring connector for temp sensor? I wonder how that works, and how well it works :confused:
 

Mooseman

Original poster
Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,184
Ottawa, ON
JimHTP said:
OK Mooseman the e-fan master, I am going to be attempting this with my next check. how does this look for a shopping list:
JEGS Performance Products 52126 JEGS Adjustable Dual Fan Control Kit w/ Dry Temperature Sensor (controller)

10 Pcs 40 Amp Bosch Style Automotive Relays Sockets Car Wiring SPDT Relay | eBay

JEGS Performance Products 10801 JEGS Premium Automotive Wire ( some wire)

and lastly, do I need circuit breakers or just fuses between the battery and relays?

should have plenty of wire terminals, heat shrink, soldering station and blah just need the main stuff

The controller looks good to me. I like the ring style so you don't need to drill and tap into the water outlet. The way it controls the fans with the A/C compressor seems to be just a straight on/off with the clutch so you may need to add a manual switch to avoid the fans cycling with the clutch.

That is an excellent deal for the relays! They're basically the same as what I used. 40A capacity is good.

I used 30A breakers. Safer than fuses if something were to happen and would reset themselves.

I couldn't see the wiring, got a link error. Anyway, use 12 gauge wiring from the relays to the fans, between the three relays and from battery to relays and you'll be good. 16 gauge from the controller to the relays is good.
 

Mooseman

Original poster
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Dec 4, 2011
25,184
Ottawa, ON
Sparky said:
Ring connector for temp sensor? I wonder how that works, and how well it works :confused:

Basically just bolt it to something on the engine. I would put it on the bolt that holds the water outlet to the block. It might react a bit slower since it wouldn't be getting direct coolant temps but should work well. I have a similar temperature gauge sensor for my son's fan cooled two stroke snowmobile.

Conner299 said:
OffRoad TB - View topic - Cooling System Upgrades Part II: Radiator

OffRoad TB - View topic - Cooling System Upgrades Part I: Fans

Anybody interested in the efan mod, check out these threads on ORTB. Some really good reading here.

Wow. Talk about a little light reading. Good stuff in there. Didn't realize our radiators were so bad. But, I can say that I have had good results with this setup, in hot and humid weather, with A/C running. I usually drive around 120Km/h (~75mph) and haven't had any issues. If I were to have heating issues I would probably go with that Dodge aluminum rad but I can't justify the cost of the Derales ($280+ shipping). I have to say I disagree with the placement of the sensor. I had the push in sensor at the bottom, or cold, end of the radiator and I had overheating issues. Moved it to the top, or hot inlet, and it was better (although the push in style is finicky by its nature).

It also gave me an idea for the A/C with that pressure switch :biggrin:
 

Sparky

Member
Dec 4, 2011
12,927
After reading all that my brain hurts :crazy:
 

JimHTP

Member
Jul 30, 2012
27
Basically just bolt it to something on the engine. I would put it on the bolt that holds the water outlet to the block. It might react a bit slower since it wouldn't be getting direct coolant temps but should work well. I have a similar temperature gauge sensor for my son's fan cooled two stroke snowmobile.

That's exactly what I was thinking. I've taken the alternator off so many times in the past month it is about as bad as changing the oil now and then it should be easy to bolt on top of the t-stat.

I thought that was a badass deal on relays! Makes me nervous but they have a 2 year warranty. I'll have to find a couple 12v breakers too

Wire was 12 ga, I figured the bigger the better.
 

Conner299

Member
Jan 16, 2013
279
That's why, when I pull the trigger, I'm going to use a blend of stuff from this thread and the ones on ORTB. I'm thinking Dodge radiator, Montana fans, Derale switch with screw in sensor(New radiator would have spots for it), and the relay switch setup I've seen on this thread. I think all this should work well together. Thoughts?

And this should hopefully keep the cost below about $500, or right at it. I think the math on the ORTB setup was around 800 or 900.
 

Sparky

Member
Dec 4, 2011
12,927
Dodge radiator? Which one?

If you keep your eyes open you can get those montana fans for dirt. I got a set for $30 or $35, shipped. Hard to beat that. No, they aren't for sale, I'm keeping them for whenever I finally go efans (probably on the next truck tbh).
 

Mooseman

Original poster
Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,184
Ottawa, ON
Conner299 said:
That's why, when I pull the trigger, I'm going to use a blend of stuff from this thread and the ones on ORTB. I'm thinking Dodge radiator, Montana fans, Derale switch with screw in sensor(New radiator would have spots for it), and the relay switch setup I've seen on this thread. I think all this should work well together. Thoughts?

And this should hopefully keep the cost below about $500, or right at it. I think the math on the ORTB setup was around 800 or 900.

That sounds like the perfect setup at the most reasonable cost. The Derale fans would be the best but expensive. The Montana fans do pull a lot of air. Just some fabrication to mount everything.
 

jes1888

Member
May 1, 2013
25
hi, reviving an old topic, what are the updates on your e-fan systems? I still have the OEM fan clutch working but i plan on doing this. Couldnt help but ask, the new Grand Cherokees come with a v6 and V8, but after seeing them at the dealer both of them use a big e-fan, like the ones on link, they have the shroud already and that radiator is as big as ours, so what are your thoughts?

Jeep Grand Cherokee Radiator Fan | eBay
 

Mooseman

Original poster
Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,184
Ottawa, ON
Maybe, maybe not. Depends on several factors like dimensions and how much air it moves. Does it have dual speeds like some of the Fords? If it only has two wires, it likely has only one speed and either will just work at full speed or will need to find another type of controller than can vary the speed. How much would this fan cover the radiator?

My efans are still working well but they hardly ever turn on in winter. I still have to figure a way to have them turn on automatically when the A/C is on but there has been a good suggestion to use a trinary switch on the high side pressure port using an adapter.
 

Sparky

Member
Dec 4, 2011
12,927
Looks like some of them are two speeds as some have 3 pin plugs. Others are 2 pin.
 

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