flyboy2610
Member
Looking for an alignment expert
- Thread starter Shdwdrgn
- Start date
- Dec 4, 2011
- 598
Ah thanks for that. For some reason I had it in mind that the nuts were similar to setting a timkin bearing, but that didn't make sense after seeing how everything rotates together in there.
- Dec 4, 2011
- 598
Apparently I need to pay more attention to my work. After replacing the front brakes last week and driving around all weekend, coming home from work on Monday I heard a thud followed by squealing. I couldn't see anything obviously wrong so I went ahead and drove home, where I discovered one of the main bolts that holds the entire brake assembly in place had fallen out. Found a suitable replacement at Ace, but the second bolt was also loose. In all my years of working on cars I have never had that happen -- my best guess is I simply forgot to crank down those two bolts as I put everything back together again. <bangs head on driveway>
Had some time this afternoon and got the rear shocks replaced. Good news there, they were NOT two different brands, just that one was turned around 180 degrees so the labeling looked different. Got the new Bilsteins mounted up with no trouble (and yes, I snugged the bolts with the breaker-bar
), feels quite a lot more solid now.
The front Bilsteins have arrived but I'm still waiting on the new caps that go at the top. If they show up in time, I'll rebuild the struts next Tuesday. Then I just have to decide when I have enough ambition to replace that lower control arm.
I also received a new set of the rings that go inside the door panels around the handles. Finally figured out why the original broke on one side -- when I replaced the door panel years ago after replacing the side mirrors, I didn't get the top of the panel seated back into the channel, so the whole thing was loose. New rings are working great (so far). I also found a replacement latch for the center console on ebay and got that swapped. The lid hasn't stayed locked in many years, it's nice to see the new part was cheap and easy to replace,
Sheesh at this rate I should have a new truck soon!
Had some time this afternoon and got the rear shocks replaced. Good news there, they were NOT two different brands, just that one was turned around 180 degrees so the labeling looked different. Got the new Bilsteins mounted up with no trouble (and yes, I snugged the bolts with the breaker-bar
), feels quite a lot more solid now.The front Bilsteins have arrived but I'm still waiting on the new caps that go at the top. If they show up in time, I'll rebuild the struts next Tuesday. Then I just have to decide when I have enough ambition to replace that lower control arm.
I also received a new set of the rings that go inside the door panels around the handles. Finally figured out why the original broke on one side -- when I replaced the door panel years ago after replacing the side mirrors, I didn't get the top of the panel seated back into the channel, so the whole thing was loose. New rings are working great (so far). I also found a replacement latch for the center console on ebay and got that swapped. The lid hasn't stayed locked in many years, it's nice to see the new part was cheap and easy to replace,
Sheesh at this rate I should have a new truck soon!
Mooseman
Moderator
That happened to me once on my 08 Montana van. Had no idea what happened when I heard the bolt drop and brakes went soft but I was just a couple of blocks from the dealer and they found one missing bolt and the other loose. They charged something like $30 for that bolt and a couple of hours labour to replace it and retorque all the others. I can't say if I did or didn't tighten them on the last brake job. I now use either Blue or Orange Loctite when I put them on and deliberately torque them.
- Dec 4, 2011
- 598
Well I'm ready to collapse. It hit 101° today and I've been working on the front struts. Planned to do that Tuesday when it was cooler, but my dentist had to change an appointment. So I started on the passenger side and everything went pretty smoothly, took a couple hours as I worked out exactly how to take everything apart and compress the springs without killing myself. And I succeeded!
Then I got to the driver side and it all went wrong. The bottom knuckle was jammed solidly onto the bolt, took about 2 hour to finally get it knocked loose. Got it all apart, compressed the springs, and the top pieces would not come loose from the shock -- seemed to be firmly rusted together. I finally had to cut down and drill out the shaft to get it all apart. Fortunately I was replacing everything but the coil spring and bottom knuckle, so nothing lost, but that took another 4 hours to complete.
Took it for a quick drive, a nearby street has a lot of dips to bounce the truck through. Again with the driver side... there's a sound of something shifting I think? However all the bolts were tightened down so maybe it's just the coil spring settling into place, I hope?
So back to that lower control arm... I've been staring at it for four hours now, and I don;t think there's actually anything wrong with it. Rather, I have two different brands of control arms on each side. I actually have a pile of bad control arms on the side of the house, so I was able to spot a couple that look the same as this one. It's just a difference in the ring that holds the rubber, on this style the front side has a larger ring than the rear but the bolt is most definitely centered. This makes me feel like it would be a waste of time to replace it now, so I think I'll hold off.
OK, time to scrape up some dinner and a lot more liquids!
Then I got to the driver side and it all went wrong. The bottom knuckle was jammed solidly onto the bolt, took about 2 hour to finally get it knocked loose. Got it all apart, compressed the springs, and the top pieces would not come loose from the shock -- seemed to be firmly rusted together. I finally had to cut down and drill out the shaft to get it all apart. Fortunately I was replacing everything but the coil spring and bottom knuckle, so nothing lost, but that took another 4 hours to complete.
Took it for a quick drive, a nearby street has a lot of dips to bounce the truck through. Again with the driver side... there's a sound of something shifting I think? However all the bolts were tightened down so maybe it's just the coil spring settling into place, I hope?
So back to that lower control arm... I've been staring at it for four hours now, and I don;t think there's actually anything wrong with it. Rather, I have two different brands of control arms on each side. I actually have a pile of bad control arms on the side of the house, so I was able to spot a couple that look the same as this one. It's just a difference in the ring that holds the rubber, on this style the front side has a larger ring than the rear but the bolt is most definitely centered. This makes me feel like it would be a waste of time to replace it now, so I think I'll hold off.
OK, time to scrape up some dinner and a lot more liquids!
As I mentioned when you were at my house, I agree, I dont think theres anything, it just doesnt look right.
And with the 4 corners of shocks/struts being replaced is the "wandering" feeling still there? I am betting it is, but I was hopeful it was wheel hop, from old shocks/struts.
And with the 4 corners of shocks/struts being replaced is the "wandering" feeling still there? I am betting it is, but I was hopeful it was wheel hop, from old shocks/struts.
- Dec 4, 2011
- 598
No idea yet on the wandering, Monday will likely be the next time I'll be heading out of town although I'll have a short drive in town today.
Also, even though it seemed like there was some life left to those front struts, I definitely felt a difference during the short test drive last night. It might have even leveled out the front end again although it's hard to tell for certain while sitting in my sloped driveway.
Also, even though it seemed like there was some life left to those front struts, I definitely felt a difference during the short test drive last night. It might have even leveled out the front end again although it's hard to tell for certain while sitting in my sloped driveway.
- Dec 4, 2011
- 598
So I've driven to Boulder a couple times now, and plan to head up to Estes Park in the next couple days. And so far it looks like the culmination of replacing the shocks/struts/brakes does in fact seem like there is a lot less wandering. Is that really possible???
Another thing I'm noticing... Since the accident a normal alignment has caused the truck to want to drift to the left, so they have compensated (which of course contributes to the significant tire wear). Now I'm noticing the truck is wanted to drift towards the right. It makes me think when I do the next alignment, that I should try it out for a few days with a "proper" alignment and just see how it's reacting overall now.
Overall, there really seems to be a lot less jumping around from the road conditions. One particular stretch of road on my drive home from Boulder was always bad about that, where the rolls and ruts in the road tended to make the truck want to jump to the left and I really had to pay attention and continuously adjust (although that was true for most roads). Time will tell, but *maybe* it's better now? Sure would be nice...
Another thing I'm noticing... Since the accident a normal alignment has caused the truck to want to drift to the left, so they have compensated (which of course contributes to the significant tire wear). Now I'm noticing the truck is wanted to drift towards the right. It makes me think when I do the next alignment, that I should try it out for a few days with a "proper" alignment and just see how it's reacting overall now.
Overall, there really seems to be a lot less jumping around from the road conditions. One particular stretch of road on my drive home from Boulder was always bad about that, where the rolls and ruts in the road tended to make the truck want to jump to the left and I really had to pay attention and continuously adjust (although that was true for most roads). Time will tell, but *maybe* it's better now? Sure would be nice...
- Dec 4, 2011
- 598
One can always hope... Of course I can't rule out the ever-present "wishful thinking" aspect, so I just need more time to evaluate how it's responding now. Getting on some roads I don't drive every day always helps point out the worst.
Of course if this turns out to not have solved anything, the only thing left, I think, is the steering knuckle? And I don't know if that could be damaged in a way to cause alignment issues without other problems being painfully obvious.
Of course if this turns out to not have solved anything, the only thing left, I think, is the steering knuckle? And I don't know if that could be damaged in a way to cause alignment issues without other problems being painfully obvious.
No.. If it was still able to align correctly, then its within the tolerances allowed by the manufacture. Its when you get to the limit of those tolerances, that you have to look deeper.
- Dec 4, 2011
- 598
Hmm ok. This has reminded me that I did have a conversation early-on with the alignment guy. He seemed surprised that I was having issues and indicated that everything was well within specs. I think that's part of the reason why it's been so hard to figure this out, because there's no obvious issues that would even lead us in the general direction of something that might be bent.
Your only real option is to compare one side to the other using a straight edge or something. See how the knuckles on one side of the truck compare to the other, and same with the control arms.
Cant help much there really. I am half deaf, and cant hear them....
But there are really only like 10 things. Upper/Lower control arm bushings, Upper/Lower Ball Joints, Left/Right Tie Rod Ends, Rubber Spring Insulators on the Strut, End Link/Sway Bar links.
Yes, Ball Joints/Tie Rods can squeak when dry, and the metal is rubbing on the plastic or teflon coatings.
But there are really only like 10 things. Upper/Lower control arm bushings, Upper/Lower Ball Joints, Left/Right Tie Rod Ends, Rubber Spring Insulators on the Strut, End Link/Sway Bar links.
Yes, Ball Joints/Tie Rods can squeak when dry, and the metal is rubbing on the plastic or teflon coatings.
- Dec 4, 2011
- 598
Well considering the strut is the only thing that I touched, that seems to narrow it down quite a bit. The thin rubber rings came new with the shocks, and I also got new top caps. Was anything supposed to be greased during re-assembly? I didn't see any grease on the parts when I tore down the struts so I just slapped all the new pieces together again.
[Edit] Doing some quick reading, and two suggestions came up. The first was to squirt some oil in around where the spring contacts the rubber bushing, but that seems... bad? However the second suggestion was regarding tightening things up while the wheel was dangling, and that maybe once the weight of the vehicle was dropped it is creating a twist again the spring. Makes me wonder if it would be worthwhile to loosen the bolt that holds the bottom of the shock to the cast iron frame, let the truck back down, then re-tighten that bolt? I dunno if that's a thing on this vehicle, but it sounded like a possibility.
[Edit] Doing some quick reading, and two suggestions came up. The first was to squirt some oil in around where the spring contacts the rubber bushing, but that seems... bad? However the second suggestion was regarding tightening things up while the wheel was dangling, and that maybe once the weight of the vehicle was dropped it is creating a twist again the spring. Makes me wonder if it would be worthwhile to loosen the bolt that holds the bottom of the shock to the cast iron frame, let the truck back down, then re-tighten that bolt? I dunno if that's a thing on this vehicle, but it sounded like a possibility.
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Mooseman
Moderator
I wouldn't put oil on the rubber isolator. If anything it might create one or damage the rubber. I don't think it's anything in or on the strut unless something was not tightened enough and allowing movement or something rubbing like a boot.
The A-arm bolts MUST to be tightened while the truck's weight is on them so as to not give the bushings too much twist. If you tightened them while the truck was in the air, the bushings may have twisted themselves from their cans in the arms and rubbing against them instead of the slight twisting they would normally see.
The A-arm bolts MUST to be tightened while the truck's weight is on them so as to not give the bushings too much twist. If you tightened them while the truck was in the air, the bushings may have twisted themselves from their cans in the arms and rubbing against them instead of the slight twisting they would normally see.
- Dec 4, 2011
- 598
Are the A-arms the same thing as the upper and lower control arms? I did actually assemble those while the front end was off the ground, however none of that stuff has been touched in the last 50k miles. Why would they suddenly start squeaking after rebuilding the struts?
Mooseman
Moderator
Yes, same for upper and lower A-arms. Assemble loose and tighten once on the ground. Maybe the extra twisting of the bushings again after lowering it might have done them in.
A related "On Topic" Thread that provides additional Technical Input:
gmtnation.com
2004 - Trailblazer - Proper Alignment - Camber - Caster - Rear Diff
I don't know if just Firestone is horrid all over America or all franchise alignment shops are. I have been to alignment shops in about 4-5 states over the years and I have never had a good experience with any of them. I tried sears too and it was just as bad. The steering wheel is always...
gmtnation.com