I can't make up my freaking mind...GRR

Voymom

Original poster
Member
Feb 3, 2012
2,523
kardain said:
Need? Not necessarily. If you are planning on off-roading in an environment where armor is required, then add that. OTOH, if you are going for the mall crawler look, it can be skipped.

I would do the armor just because I do run into obstacles on the job that could possibly harm the undercarriage of any vehicle. It's the bumper I was concerned about, but I'm guessing I would need a fabbed bumper to attach a winch? I'm looking at getting a bull bar for the front and tail light armor. I would like to do a mix of mall crawl and hardcore OR.
 

Regulator

Member
Nov 20, 2011
2,496
Voymom said:
Thank you Matt!! I really appreciate the advice and the pictures. I appreciate everyone's advice here! Now with lifting, I understand the need for armor, but would I really need a new bumper?

The front bumper is not required for a lift, hence the comma followed the "needed" portion in parenthesis. The Need parts that I was talking about were the skid plates, and namely the radiator skid plate. Following the lift you are exposing a huge weakness in the design of the vehicle. You do not want to have the lower end of the radiator hanging out there unprotected.
 

Voymom

Original poster
Member
Feb 3, 2012
2,523
Regulator said:
The front bumper is not required for a lift, hence the comma followed the "needed" portion in parenthesis. The Need parts that I was talking about were the skid plates, and namely the radiator skid plate. Following the lift you are exposing a huge weakness in the design of the vehicle. You do not want to have the lower end of the radiator hanging out there unprotected.

I missed the "Needed" part lol It's late. And Thank you again!

I really don't know what I would be doing without everyone here and this forum. My poor Phantom would be one hot mess lol
 

suburbs

Member
Jan 6, 2012
86
Sounds like you want to do a modification just for the sake of doing it. There are a lot of things I would like to do to my truck, but not really practical based on the cost.

I live in a heavy snow environment, do a little trail driving for grins, even have factory running boards installed since the girlfriend is a similar height to you.

Have had no issues with stock height.
 

HARDTRAILZ

Moderator
Nov 18, 2011
49,665
Honestly in your situation. I would do a .5 inch spacer in the front to level the truck and some nice 30 inch tires. Will only set you a shade higher, but the leveled look from the spacer will set it off. Some nice rims and tires and it will be sweet and fully functional.

The best other plan for you would be to keep stock size tires and turn the rear bag sensors to drop it a bit and set it level. You could try that free first and see if the level look does enough to satisfy the mod bug. Easy to do and easy to change back to stock...and free.
 

Jkust

Member
Dec 4, 2011
946
Me007gold said:
Lift it. When you raise the center of gravity of a vehicle it makes them more prone to rollover, however, these vehicles have a fairly wide track, so that risk is very low.

Couldn't disagree more. My wife rolled her previous stock 2004 Rainier over unbelievably easy because it was a pre 2006 and did not have the stabilitrac system. When it rolled it went over 2 and a half times with kids in the car. I still can't believe how easy it rolled over. These things roll with ease if they don't have stabilitrac don't kid yourself. The incidence of these things/suv's in general rolling over with stabilitrac is now the same as a car rolling over. I'd go lower not higher unless I went offroad a lot and I also wouldn't own a pre 2006 GMT. It's like kids and bike helmets when they say they don't want wear one because they haven't been hit by a car yet then I take then to the grave of our 14 year old cousin who was hit by a car.
 

HARDTRAILZ

Moderator
Nov 18, 2011
49,665
Jkust said:
Couldn't disagree more. My wife rolled her previous stock 2004 Rainier over unbelievably easy because it was a pre 2006 and did not have the stabilitrac system. When it rolled it went over 2 and a half times with kids in the car. I still can't believe how easy it rolled over. These things roll with ease if they don't have stabilitrac don't kid yourself. The incidence of these things/suv's in general rolling over with stabilitrac is now the same as a car rolling over. I'd go lower not higher unless I went offroad a lot and I also wouldn't own a pre 2006 GMT. It's like kids and bike helmets when they say they don't want wear one because they haven't been hit by a car yet then I take then to the grave of our 14 year old cousin who was hit by a car.

NHTSA gives the 2002 and 2008 GMT-360's the same Rollover Resistance rating.

Note--"The TrailBlazer did fairly well in safety assessments made by the NHTSA. For driver front-impact and 2WD rollover tests, it received 3-Star ratings, and for passenger front-impact and 4WD rollover, it received 4-Star ratings. It achieved the best results in side-impact safety, for which it received the highest 5-Star rating"

Cant find much of anything to support your claim of "These things roll with ease if they don't have stabilitrac". Your Rainier incedent seems to be an anomaly not a norm. This platform and the low mounted engine is actually one of the safest SUV's and thus the minimal lift capable of achieving on this platform does not make them rollover prone. Especially when you consider that most lifting them also widen the track width with wider tires. In fact these SUV's were deemed safe enough that General Motors quit putting federal rollover-warning labels on them.
 

Jkust

Member
Dec 4, 2011
946
HARDTRAILZ said:
NHTSA gives the 2002 and 2008 GMT-360's the same Rollover Resistance rating.

Note--"The TrailBlazer did fairly well in safety assessments made by the NHTSA. For driver front-impact and 2WD rollover tests, it received 3-Star ratings, and for passenger front-impact and 4WD rollover, it received 4-Star ratings. It achieved the best results in side-impact safety, for which it received the highest 5-Star rating"

Cant find much of anything to support your claim of "These things roll with ease if they don't have stabilitrac". Your Rainier incedent seems to be an anomaly not a norm. This platform and the low mounted engine is actually one of the safest SUV's and thus the minimal lift capable of achieving on this platform does not make them rollover prone. Especially when you consider that most lifting them also widen the track width with wider tires. In fact these SUV's were deemed safe enough that General Motors quit putting federal rollover-warning labels on them.

I wish that were the case. I saw 4 gmt's this winter on their roof and this was the easiest winter I've ever experienced. That was just my 23mile commute to work. I agree the engine placement is well done, but anomolies or not, they roll over. They aren't nearly as bad as the old 90's suvs with their narrow track and hight center of gravity. As for the stability control systems not letting them spin or overcorrect, etc is their entire reason for existing. SUV rollovers/deaths with the addition of the system have gone down dramatically. I don't see the point in arguing what the addition of that technology has done to the suv. I live with two now and the former Rainier and have to respectfully disagree. Look the Op is questioning whether to raise or lower and I'm not playing devils advocate, just relaying what I still can't believe happened. When the cops show up at your door to tell you that your family has been in a rollover accident, your life literally flashes before your eyes and I'd hate to suggest lifting a daily driver to a mom like the OP. I'd love to go to a track and see how these things actually perform in a panic stearing situation.
 

HARDTRAILZ

Moderator
Nov 18, 2011
49,665
The electric nannies do help and having been rolled over 1.5 times in a GM suv myself during an accident...8 passengers and no injuries... talk about life flashing before your eyes as pavement slides 6 inches from your face. Still, I have absolutely zero qualms with putting my 1 year old(tomorrow actually) in my lifted truck and driving anywhere. My wife actually prefers we take my truck over her Grand Caravan because mine feels more stable and safe. She also chose my truck over a stock Tahoe z71 for similar reasons. Built right, these trucks do quite well with lifts and stability. Far exceeding older models and better than many other newer non-suv vehicles.

Not sure why you brought up the stabiltrak anyway since it is not an option on her truck....
 

Regulator

Member
Nov 20, 2011
2,496
Let's keep in mind that there are a lot more factors involved in a roll over then just the vehicle. Three years ago I rolled my Avalanche which was closer to the ground then my Envoy and weighed significantly more because of everything in the bed of the truck. I was doing 60 MPH when a Semi pulled into my lane to early and forced me onto the shoulder and into the ice. I got sideways and before I could correct the drivers tire found solid ground, stuck, and turned the truck over 3 complete times.

Once again I will say, that truck was closer to the ground and heavier then my Envoy. However that doesn't make it any safer. All I can tell you, from personal experience driving my Envoy, is that in quick evasive maneuvers it feels stable. Taking a highway on/off ramp circle at 50MPH it feels stable. Getting a bit sideways in the snow and ice, it still feels stable.

Accidents do happen, vehicles do roll over. I saw a few 4 door passenger cars upside down this winter. That doesn't mean that I am going to tell you to stay away from them though.
 

Voymom

Original poster
Member
Feb 3, 2012
2,523
Jkust said:
Couldn't disagree more. My wife rolled her previous stock 2004 Rainier over unbelievably easy because it was a pre 2006 and did not have the stabilitrac system. When it rolled it went over 2 and a half times with kids in the car. I still can't believe how easy it rolled over. These things roll with ease if they don't have stabilitrac don't kid yourself. The incidence of these things/suv's in general rolling over with stabilitrac is now the same as a car rolling over. I'd go lower not higher unless I went offroad a lot and I also wouldn't own a pre 2006 GMT. It's like kids and bike helmets when they say they don't want wear one because they haven't been hit by a car yet then I take then to the grave of our 14 year old cousin who was hit by a car.

I'm glad your wife is okay after her accident, but I prefer to not rely on technology to keep me save. I feel that relying on technology and others for protection can only make our safety that much more vulnerable. I rather get into a truck knowing that the way I drive will keep me from being into an accident. I have taken defensive driving classes every year since I have had my license. And have the opportunity to take vehicles to the GM proving grounds in MI and drive them on all sorts of courses so that I know how my vehicle will react in different weather and traffic scenarios. I haven't done these things in the Envoy yet, but a trip to MI in June will break the dry spell.

A lot of these SUV's on their roof's from accidents are the SUV people who think that just because they have these trucks and have 4wd they are invincible, which is extremely sad. I may drive a little lead footed when my children are not in the truck with me, but when they are in my vehicle i'm completely cautious about OTHER people around me. I'm confident in my driving abilities, it's the other people on the road that make driving dangerous. If I stabilitrac on my Envoy now, I would find a way to disengage it honestly. People seem to have forgotten how to drive and have been to reliable on their cars driving for them. NO offense at all...but I'm just not all about the car having the control.

As far as doing a lift just for the hell of it....Thats entirely not true. I haven't decided exactly what I want to do just yet as I have a lot of factors to think about before I make my decision.
 

Voymom

Original poster
Member
Feb 3, 2012
2,523
Jkust said:
I wish that were the case. I saw 4 gmt's this winter on their roof and this was the easiest winter I've ever experienced. That was just my 23mile commute to work. I agree the engine placement is well done, but anomolies or not, they roll over. They aren't nearly as bad as the old 90's suvs with their narrow track and hight center of gravity. As for the stability control systems not letting them spin or overcorrect, etc is their entire reason for existing. SUV rollovers/deaths with the addition of the system have gone down dramatically. I don't see the point in arguing what the addition of that technology has done to the suv. I live with two now and the former Rainier and have to respectfully disagree. Look the Op is questioning whether to raise or lower and I'm not playing devils advocate, just relaying what I still can't believe happened. When the cops show up at your door to tell you that your family has been in a rollover accident, your life literally flashes before your eyes and I'd hate to suggest lifting a daily driver to a mom like the OP. I'd love to go to a track and see how these things actually perform in a panic stearing situation.

I should have merged the posts lol...

But that's one of the issues....The minute you panic in any emergency situation your life expectancy goes down to about a 20% chance of survival depending on how bad the emergency situation is. I have trained with Emergency Management as a volunteer for 6 years, and panic training is involved for me. If you panic because you see a tornado on the ground, your going to have issues, and injuries. I have also professionally shown horses all my life, and if you panic on or near a horse, they become even more deadlier than a vehicle accident. You can regain or at least have a chance to regain control of a vehicle, but a horse controls himself, and once you lose control of that animal....he is in control of your life and well being. I have watched a horse kill a woman with a single kick to the head because she panicked when her horse was caught up in barbed wire fencing.

Panic is a definite no go. Panic steering...you might as well take your hands off the steering wheel because your only going to make things worse for yourself.

NOT trying to sound bitchy at all!!!! I feel like I had to put that in. I'm sorry ahead of time if I came off like that, but I do have experience in really bad situations. I'm 28yrs old and aside form my first daughter I have seen all forms of death in front of my face....it's scary and real and being in panic mode can really kill someone or even yourself.

I almost lost my oldest son because he quit breathing. He had the flu and aspirated some vomit at 8 months old, and I lost it, completely lost it and a stranger had to give him CPR even though I was trained in it. After losing my daughter and almost losing my oldest son...I have trained myself extremely hard and do a lot of exercises to make sure that if a situation does happen, I will not panic no matter what.
 

djthumper

Administrator
Nov 20, 2011
14,956
North Las Vegas
Tami, with doing Skywarn and know what it entails and not wanting to be too extreme... I would concur with Hardtrailz and go with the .5" spacers up front and probably go with 255/70R17 tires which are only slightly taller and get a slightly agressive tread. It it nothing extreme for a lift but gives you slightly more clearance and get the armor. The advantage of replacing the bumper to a MDB Fabrications bumper is the added clearance that you will get over the stock with the plastic on it and it will take more abuse.
 

Voymom

Original poster
Member
Feb 3, 2012
2,523
stormsurge said:
Ya know. I dont live that far from ya. you can try two tb's in 1 trip lol.

That would be awesome!! You should know which one I would want to drive first lol :biggrin:
 

stormsurge

Member
Jan 29, 2012
386
SS. Same as my wife. After lifting the old one it's a harder choice for me. There both fun And the lift gets 3 times the looks of the ss. Although now that i have a cutout on it i can make them look at the ss lol. :eek:
 

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