Fan Clutch

anthonyl79

Original poster
Member
Jul 15, 2012
127
Colorado
Not real familiar with the fan clutch on my 06' Envoy. Should I be able to take my hand and stop the fan blades from spinning with light pressure? That is even with the A/C on. I'm having some A/C issues where it doesn't get real cold, espically if I'm not driving a rather fast speed, around town it sucks and some other codes. But they are TP issue, but I have read that they maybe related.
 

Boricua SS

Member
Nov 20, 2011
3,080
Ohio
am i reading this post right... youre sticking your hand inside your engine bay and putting it into your spinning fan, and stopping it while the truck and AC are on?? or am i missing something here??
 

anthonyl79

Original poster
Member
Jul 15, 2012
127
Colorado
Boricua SS said:
am i reading this post right... youre sticking your hand inside your engine bay and putting it into your spinning fan, and stopping it while the truck and AC are on?? or am i missing something here??

Yes that is correct. I am not directly putting my hand in the blades, but on the side where there is a opening of the shroud.
 

borretje

Member
Jan 1, 2012
94
:crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy::eek::eek::eek::eek:
 

McGMT

Member
Jun 17, 2012
621
anthonyl79 said:
Yes that is correct. I am not directly putting my hand in the blades, but on the side where there is a opening of the shroud.

The proper way to check a clutch... If you can stop it all the time even when hot hot then garbage... If you can't stop it then shes a goodn`.
 

Boricua SS

Member
Nov 20, 2011
3,080
Ohio
man.. that takes some guts :rotfl:.... never heard of testing things that way... but if it works :crackup:... and wouldnt a bad fan clutch cause a slight over heating since its right off the water pump? or does that not apply?
 

Wooluf1952

Member
Nov 20, 2011
2,663
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
I'm not sure, but, I don't think the fan will lock in unless the engine temp is high enough. So you would be able to stop it.
 

anthonyl79

Original poster
Member
Jul 15, 2012
127
Colorado
McGMT said:
The proper way to check a clutch... If you can stop it all the time even when hot hot then garbage... If you can't stop it then shes a goodn`.

Thanks MCMGT! I figured someone would finally understand. That is what I was afraid of. Since high school this is the only vehical that I have had the has a clutch fan. All my other cars have had an electric and soon this one will too. Time for a PCM tune and efan conversion.
 

anthonyl79

Original poster
Member
Jul 15, 2012
127
Colorado
Wooluf1952 said:
I'm not sure, but, I don't think the fan will lock in unless the engine temp is high enough. So you would be able to stop it.

If I am correct and maybe I'm not but with the A/C on it should command the clutch to lock up and engage. Also at the time of the test, the gauge read 210.
 

McGMT

Member
Jun 17, 2012
621
Wooluf1952 said:
I'm not sure, but, I don't think the fan will lock in unless the engine temp is high enough. So you would be able to stop it.

Thats why my post says when the engine is hot... It is a PCM controlled fan so at hot temperatures and sometimes when the AC Is on the PCM commands a certain speed from the fan and is going to work against you pushing on it to try and get what it wants... An "idling" fan and a commanded fan on this vehicle is going to have a different feel one way or the other.

If the clutch is bad it will heat up in traffic and hills and throw out a code with a CEL

BUT now that I think of it some people have had their clutch lock up tight when it failed...
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,487
Ottawa, ON
The one sure fire way to check the fan clutch is to tap into the white wire at the fan plug and put on +12V. This will lockup the fan and you will hear it. Remove the +12V and it should return to freewheeling. It should also throw a code since it is spinning faster than what is being commanded by the PCM.
 

Wooluf1952

Member
Nov 20, 2011
2,663
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
anthonyl79 said:
If I am correct and maybe I'm not but with the A/C on it should command the clutch to lock up and engage. Also at the time of the test, the gauge read 210.

If the fan is commanded to lock up every time the AC is turned on, wouldn't you get the afterburner sound?
 

McGMT

Member
Jun 17, 2012
621
Wooluf1952 said:
If the fan is commanded to lock up every time the AC is turned on, wouldn't you get the afterburner sound?


Not if it isn't commanded to 100%

I don't know what the deal is with the PCM, Fan, and AC. I am sure there are times that the PCM commands some fan for the a/c just like any other vehicle that can control an electric fan kicks a fan on for a/c. But this is GM and they might not do it on these vehicles, which would explain the poor performance at idle.
 

CaptainXL

Member
Dec 4, 2011
2,445
I would have to say that if you have a 2005 or older then you should get the new Dorman clutch. Also get the PCM update if a 2004 or earlier. The way the truck drives is smooth now. No harsh shifts at all. AC performance is much improved.
 

anthonyl79

Original poster
Member
Jul 15, 2012
127
Colorado
Well thanks for all the help, but I think it is time to do an E-Fan setup on this silly thing. I have been wanting to, but now that its broken I can justify it.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,487
Ottawa, ON
Well, if you want some ideas for efans, take a look at http://gmtnation.com/f24/my-electric-fan-setup-montana-venture-efans-2425/ . So far it has worked great, even in 37C (99f) with high humidity. Only thing though is that I haven't tested it with the A/C running. I'm replacing the evaporator right now so I'm hoping to get it going by tomorrow to get final results of this setup. These fans are dirt cheap and plentiful from parts yards.
 

anthonyl79

Original poster
Member
Jul 15, 2012
127
Colorado
Mooseman said:
Well, if you want some ideas for efans, take a look at http://gmtnation.com/f24/my-electric-fan-setup-montana-venture-efans-2425/ . So far it has worked great, even in 37C (99f) with high humidity. Only thing though is that I haven't tested it with the A/C running. I'm replacing the evaporator right now so I'm hoping to get it going by tomorrow to get final results of this setup. These fans are dirt cheap and plentiful from parts yards.

So what I have deiced to go with is a Spal 16" curved blade fan (curved quiter than straight) puller. Then to control the fan I will use a Spal PWM-V3 (hard to find but did it. Flex - A - Lite makes on as well but uses their sensor) It will allow me to use the stock temp sensor for getting the temp to the controller. The controller is a variable speed controller. Starts at 60% and goes up to 100% Also can tap into the wiring for the A/C for 100% I wam going to make this 100% plug and play with weather pack connectors so not cutting of factory wires. (Got the service manulas from Mooseman - http://gmtnation.com/f23/need-service-manuals-get-them-here-371/ ) Having a shroud made now that will stick the fan back about an inch. Then I will bet the pcm tune and the codes killed and I will be good to go.

The fan - VA18-AP71/LL-59A * 16"C/12V - found it for $125
The controller - SPAL USA - found this for $100

When I'm done I will post some pics. Wont be till mid-August.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,487
Ottawa, ON
I had looked into that controller but I had some doubts about it working with the temp sensor so I opted for the Derale. Someone else tried the Spal 16" from PCMforLess and is pulling it out because it can't keep up. http://gmtnation.com/f25/removing-my-pcm4less-electric-fan-3901/

I just finished fixing the A/C and adding a direct coolant sensor drilled and tapped into the water outlet for the Derale controller (instead of the radiator push in sensor). Haven't taken it for a drive yet but my fans can keep the engine cool with the A/C running with both fans at 50% in 28C temperature and air is ice cold. Running the fans at 100% just brings my high side pressure down. I have no doubt that these fans will work out well. My only problem is figuring out a steady 12V when the A/C is on. I don't want the fans to cycle with the compressor clutch.

If you need to add a temperature sensor, you can drill and tap the water outlet.
 

Sparky

Member
Dec 4, 2011
12,927
I'm going to be looking over wiring diagrams again here shortly however, if I find a good source for the AC on I'll let you know.
 

anthonyl79

Original poster
Member
Jul 15, 2012
127
Colorado
Mooseman said:
I had looked into that controller but I had some doubts about it working with the temp sensor so I opted for the Derale. Someone else tried the Spal 16" from PCMforLess and is pulling it out because it can't keep up. http://gmtnation.com/f25/removing-my-pcm4less-electric-fan-3901/


I just finished fixing the A/C and adding a direct coolant sensor drilled and tapped into the water outlet for the Derale controller (instead of the radiator push in sensor). Haven't taken it for a drive yet but my fans can keep the engine cool with the A/C running with both fans at 50% in 28C temperature and air is ice cold. Running the fans at 100% just brings my high side pressure down. I have no doubt that these fans will work out well. My only problem is figuring out a steady 12V when the A/C is on. I don't want the fans to cycle with the compressor clutch.

If you need to add a temperature sensor, you can drill and tap the water outlet.

I did see that thread. I live in Colorado, so the temps don't get outrageous all the time. The other thing that I noticed about the PCM4Less on is that they aren't using a shroud. I think that would help tons. They covered the radiator with a sheet of aluminum, so now you don't get to use the whole radiator now, just the portion. Some years ago I worked in an auto shop where we built custom off road vehicals and that was my job was the fab portion. We used 16" Spal fans all the time and never had issues with them over heating on build big blocks that guys where using for rock crawling.
 

anthonyl79

Original poster
Member
Jul 15, 2012
127
Colorado
anthonyl79 said:
I did see that thread. I live in Colorado, so the temps don't get outrageous all the time. The other thing that I noticed about the PCM4Less on is that they aren't using a shroud. I think that would help tons. They covered the radiator with a sheet of aluminum, so now you don't get to use the whole radiator now, just the portion. Some years ago I worked in an auto shop where we built custom off road vehicals and that was my job was the fab portion. We used 16" Spal fans all the time and never had issues with them over heating on build big blocks that guys where using for rock crawling.

The controller that I got is a variable speed controller from Spal. Looks at the the factory temp sensor to adjust the speed of the fan. The controller will command the fan on when the low tempature setting is reached. The fan will powe up to 60% and continue to climb as the tempature rises till it hits the high tempature setting and the fan will then be running at 100% When the A/C is turned on the controller holds for 30 seconds then will command the fan on at 100% straing at 60% to keep from dropping a large draw on the electrical system.

I took it to my friends shop who has a Snap-On scanner to look at the live datastream coming from the temp sensor. When it was hooked up there was a 15 degree variance from the temp gauge and what the datastream was telling me. The gauge said that the vehical was at 210 when the scanner infact said we where running at 195. I set the temp range on the controller for at 205 for the low tempatrure setting, then 220 for the high tempature. On my 50 mile trip to work this morning the fan did not come on till I got into heavy traffic. The traffic was stop and go with maximum speed of 5 MPH and the outside tempature was 70 degrees. When the fan came on, it would only come on at 60% like it is suppose to and would not go any higher and would run for no more than 30 seconds. The fan only came on 2 times. So seems like my cooling system is working preatty good without the fan even running. So far so good. I will throw up some pics later this weekend.
 

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