NEED HELP Confused on AC rebuild w/ compressor plug an switch?

Sprung Monkey

Original poster
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Oct 12, 2017
358
Al
Confused on AC rebuild w/ compressor plug an switch?

Hello all: after a bunch of studying an video watching I’m attempting to rebuild the complete AC sys. On my 4th gen.99pontica tran am

I purchased the GPD complete kit minus the evaporator core.they have zero customer support.they do have a few brief videos but neglected to mention this plu an switch.



What I’m confused on according to there instructions is removing a plug inside the compressor an installing a switch on compressor.they neglected to include the instruction sheet for switch install but do make it appear this compressor needs a switch and there special tool to remove switch from old comp. an install to new comp.



Not sure what this switch even is my old comp. doesn’t have it unless it’s inside the comp. case.

Maybe GPD is confusing there switch w/ a high pressure sensor which is located on the high pressure metal tube out of the condenser then into the firewall which is input to evap.core, the other sensor is on the low pressure metal line.

Not sure about the plug, there’s a c-clip holding a cover w/ a nipple to pry up to remove

Like is there a blockoff of some kind that needs removing? Then replace the cover an c-clip?

Attached GPD instructions/new an old compressor.

next I’ll ask about the type /amount/where to pour the oil. Thanks for much needed advice
 

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Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,649
Ottawa, ON
If the old one didn't have a switch or sensor, leave the new one as-is. As for oil, if you didn't pour out the oil out of the old compressor, the instructions should have said how much oil to add.
 

Sprung Monkey

Original poster
Member
Oct 12, 2017
358
Al
OK sounds good will disreguard the plug an switch.I was concerned there was a plug inside case.their instructions confussed me.

oil: GPD says the compressor is shipped w/ 6.1 ounces of PAG46 oil.I drained comp. only 5oz came out yes I did turn the clutch and tilt comp.

what they say is drain oil out of old comp. an refill w/ that amount. my old comp. had no oil.
I found a website supercool it provides spec on what type an amount each vehicle needs.
my car need 9oz for total sys.of PAG46
be reading alot of conflicting infor.
how much of the total sys.oil goe's into comp. and how much goe's into the dryer? the majority of what I read is half in comp. half in dryer.
thanks for advice
 

Sprung Monkey

Original poster
Member
Oct 12, 2017
358
Al
Heres supercool website they sell AC stuff enter type & year of vehicle



https://vil3.motor.com/Home_Frameset.aspx?MSID=par5dxgdulocnykqkcjixsi5



This is the only resource I have that says what type an amount of oil my car takes.

GM only says 1.5LBs of Freon. Which translates to 24oz.



Supercool says. 9oz for total sys. to pour zero into the comp. which I believe is incorrect.

The compressor is a small engine if run w/out oil it will destroy itself, it needs oil an the clutch must be turned a few times to prime this oil before starting engine from what I’ve read.

I think Supercool suggests incorrectly.

3oz in evap.

0 in dryer an

1oz in condenser

3oz in evap.

From all my readings I should put half of the 9oz 4.5oz into comp. remaining 4.5oz in dryer. If I pour oil into condenser, evap when I vacuum the sys. This oil will be sucked out. Where the comp. an dryer hold oil like crankcase’s do.



Coating the O-rings more conflicting infor:

I’ve read O-rings should be coated w/ motor oil, others say motor oil will containiate the PAG oil? Others say to coat O-rings w/ PAG oil? GPD which is basically useless for adice says their O-rings are already coated an just install dry, I’ve lost confidence in any advice they offer.I think O-rings need some kindof lube but what? Thanks Mooseman for excellent advice as uselle
 

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Sprung Monkey

Original poster
Member
Oct 12, 2017
358
Al
Heres supercool website they sell AC stuff enter type & year of vehicle



https://vil3.motor.com/Home_Frameset.aspx?MSID=par5dxgdulocnykqkcjixsi5



This is the only resource I have that says what type an amount of oil my car takes.

GM only says 1.5LBs of Freon. Which translates to 24oz.



Supercool says. 9oz for total sys. to pour zero into the comp. which I believe is incorrect.

The compressor is a small engine if run w/out oil it will destroy itself, it needs oil an the clutch must be turned a few times to prime this oil before starting engine from what I’ve read.

I think Supercool suggests incorrectly.

3oz in evap.

0 in dryer an

1oz in condenser

3oz in evap.

From all my readings I should put half of the 9oz 4.5oz into comp. remaining 4.5oz in dryer. If I pour oil into condenser, evap when I vacuum the sys. This oil will be sucked out. Where the comp. an dryer hold oil like crankcase’s do.



Coating the O-rings more conflicting infor:

I’ve read O-rings should be coated w/ motor oil, others say motor oil will containiate the PAG oil? Others say to coat O-rings w/ PAG oil? GPD which is basically useless for adice says their O-rings are already coated an just install dry, I’ve lost confidence in any advice they offer.I think O-rings need some kindof lube but what? Thanks Mooseman for excellent advice as uselle
 

Sprung Monkey

Original poster
Member
Oct 12, 2017
358
Al
I'm planning to install new compressor today.want to parsheally position comp. w/ out any oil, where I can attach the comp. suction an discharge tube. then postion an bolt down comp.

then pour 4.5oz of oil into suction tube.
which direction to turn clutch for comp. to suck in oil?
still confused about coatng O-rings & sealing washers? dry,motor oil, or PAG oil? thanks
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,649
Ottawa, ON
No motor oil. Use PAG oil only.

For the direction of rotation, I don't think it matters since it's just a pump. You could turn it in both directions to be safe.
 

Sprung Monkey

Original poster
Member
Oct 12, 2017
358
Al
I'm now thinking to just refill the compressor. w/oil put suction/discharge lid back on so oil won't spill out, position comp w/ clutch tilted downward w/ enough room to remove lid an attach suction discharge tube then position comp an bolt it down.
I'd really like attach tube to back of comp. then stove into position mite not be enough room.

I have my transmission cooler attached to the AC condenser are the hayden round plastic zip ties reusable?one end has a slot for an screwdriver like can it be unscrewed or will they have to be cut off an replaced?

I don't have compressed air how should I back flush the evap core?

the orifice filter is inside the high pressure metal line which is the lower tube on firewall the evap input.

plan to back flush though top hole at fire wall maybe airasol can of solvent?
my next trip to Florida in a few days
my friend has a small air compressor.
maybe I can assemble comp. w/ suction/discharge tube connected to comp. an to old dryer an new condenser leave off the AC drive belt.

drive to FL use brake clean to back flush evap core. blow out w/ compressed air.quickly install new dryer.
I'm replacing all AC parts except to evap. so I plan to only back flush evap.

rent the autozone vacuum then recharge sys.
I purchased the economical gauge set from amazon this

I mite upgrade the gauges an get the kit that includes the vacuum.

after attaching the can of freon this set doesn't have a schrader valve to purge, plan to unscrew yellow charge tube at gauge end till freon comes out then re tighten open gauges an recharge.



thanks Mooseman you the man
 

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Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,649
Ottawa, ON
I believe you can buy cans of pressurized flush however I would not flush the evaporator or condenser as those have multiple small tubes and flushing would be ineffective. If you had a catastrophic compressor failure that sent shrapnel through the system, you might have to replace both. If not, just replace the oil in the compressor. I would replace the receiver/dryer and the orifice tube. If you replace the receiver/dryer, you also have to replace the oil with the specified amount. You can't just pour it out to measure as some of it is trapped in the dissecant bag.
 

Sprung Monkey

Original poster
Member
Oct 12, 2017
358
Al
update of progress on AC rebuild:
managed to install compressor an suction/discharge tube at comp.end. major PITA.
when I'm in Florida
was planing to back flush evap.core w/ brake clean
and use low presure to blow out BC but now won't flush.
when I spary brake clean into the all metal high presure line which hold orifci fliter should the sensor be removed like will brake clean ruin the sensor?
the trans coolers round zip ties do screw off so I can reuse.
new condenser doesn't have the lower aluminum stud, it appears to have a star head tryed small cresent wrench and vice grips didn't put alot of force on it to remove looks like it needs a female star socket.

the manufactor of this AC kit GPD says to refill the compressor w/ all the oil it came w/ they say it has 6.1oz I was only able to get 5oz out which I have poured back in though the crank case drain.
yes you right about oil in dryer. I call it a dryer but it's actuellly the acumulator which doe's hold oil at the bottom of the can.
this gets confussing again the GM requires 9OZ of oil however it's now no longer a GM sys. it's a GPD sys.
weird that they say not to add anymore oil to sys. or it will be over filled. I think I'll add at least 2 oz to accumulator.
the good news is the orifci fliter doesn't have a spec of shrapnel I beleive only problem I had was a leaking comp. I've learned alot about AC next time I'll be more prepared.
this is a complete rebuild minus the evap. which includes comp.,condenser, accumulator,suction/discharge tube & orific fliter.
so how do I get oil inside the accumulator GPD says theres no oil in it when shipped, maybe 2 oz.
on suction side?
hope to get that condenser stud transfered to new condenser.

GPD has a video they say count the rows in the orginal condenser make sure new condenser has the same
my orginal condenser has 29 rows the new condenser which is almost exact same physical size has 36 rows.

thanks mooseman you the man
 

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Sprung Monkey

Original poster
Member
Oct 12, 2017
358
Al
you correct about not being able to flush the condenser bc the passageways are to tiny are you saying the evape core is the same? sorry I reread you say both can't be flushed but brake clean is differnt isn't it just for evape all other stuff is new and clean.
or will vacuum do more than suck moisture an also suck out flith?

what is that nasty looking greasie stuff on the orific fliter?

thanks
 
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Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,649
Ottawa, ON
It's just accumulated old oil and worn compressor metal.

I wouldn't try flushing at all, especially with brake cleaner, as it could damage rubber parts and sensors. if the orifice was fairly clean with no bits, I'd leave well enough alone. I'd still replace the accumulator and corresponding amount of oil.

Just because the parts used are GPD, it's still a GM based system so quantities should be the same unless that new condenser says otherwise because of the additional passages.
 

Sprung Monkey

Original poster
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Oct 12, 2017
358
Al
Flushing:

I’m glad I haven’t flushed the evape core all other parts ar new except for the high pressure line should I not flush it to?



Did you see the image of the orifice filter? The top sections has green greasie stuff, the screen filter appears clean like I don’t see metal particals.



Yes I completely agree w/ you about the total amount of oil in sys.

It’s kindof confusing Haynes books says pour 2oz in compressor, 3oz in evape, 1oz in condenser 2oz in dryer.

GPD say only put oil in compressor crankcase do not put oil in the other parts.



I’m to the point of refilling (which I’ve done) all oil I drained from the compressor I got 5oz out (but GPD says you won’t get all of it out) so I assume there’s 6oz in compressor. I've installed the compressor.
then adding 2OZ to the dryer an calling it a day.

GM specs are 9OZ for total sys but don’t explain where, like there don’t split it up for componets.



I’ve been informed if you add oil to evap & condenser the vacuum will suck it out but won’t suck it out from compressors crank-case or dryer an this is where oil should be added.



What GPD is saying about the condenser is if the number of horizontal rows is different from the factory condenser the factory amount of freeon will be changed.



Rows of horizontal tubes on condenser continued:

Explained here at 2 minute mark.



My orginal condenser has 29 rows the new GPD has 36 rows.



I called GPD an questioned this there response was you don’t go by Freon LBs but go by

Pressures on the gauges.



My gauge set from amazon has a chart ambient temp X- has low-side min an max PSI so doe’s high pressure side min-max.

So it makes a lot of sense to have the gauge set to add the proper amount of Freon.

Now I’m curious if the same amount of Freon is injected on a cooler day that falls w/in the PSIs as a hotter day? Seams like the ambient temp determines how much PSI

The warmer means more PSI so if injecting Freon on a hot day we inject more Freon compared to a cooler day for a initial charge.



Still learning but getting there.



Wanted to install condenser today but couldn’t GPD didn’t include the stud to attach the discharge tube they expect me to reuse the original.



I need a inverted torqx socket to remove an reinstall will cruise by home depot tomorrow.

Hope I didn’t booger the star head up w/ my vice grips, do most GM cars of the 1999 era share the same AC condensers an line studs?

Thanks Mooseman you the man
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,649
Ottawa, ON
I’m glad I haven’t flushed the evape core all other parts ar new except for the high pressure line should I not flush it to?
Not with brake cleaner.


Did you see the image of the orifice filter? The top sections has green greasie stuff, the screen filter appears clean like I don’t see metal particals.
That's likely just oil with UV dye.

Total refrigerant may be a bit more like GPD told you. Put in what GM specified and check pressures. Add a little more if needed.

Add oil to each component as specified. It all circulates with the refrigerant, which is why shops just use an injector into the low side but you have to have some in the compressor when it's first started.

I think you're fine the way you did it.
 

Sprung Monkey

Original poster
Member
Oct 12, 2017
358
Al
What type of compressor do I have? I don’t see a switch on back of comp. but do have a crank case drain plug. Variable displacement or cycling compressor?



From this video the man says variable displacement oil only goes into compressors crank case. An cycling you oil is divided up to each componet.

Around 11minute mark.



https://www.google.com/search?q=car+ac+evaporator+flush&sxsrf=APwXEdegQUGrN8Bo7xFYl7GWKbvO1HCjFA:1681344894138&source=hp&ei=fkk3ZN-ABeqjqtsP6YaPkAo&iflsig=AOEireoAAAAAZDdXjvQIbnUO1QT-cHifJKXU1i38i-yN&oq=&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAEYADIHCCMQ6gIQJzIHCCMQ6gIQJzIHCCMQ6gIQJzIHCCMQ6gIQJzIHCCMQ6gIQJzIHCCMQ6gIQJzIHCCMQ6gIQJzIHCCMQ6gIQJzIHCCMQ6gIQJzIHCCMQ6gIQJ1AAWABg-Q5oAXAAeACAAQCIAQCSAQCYAQCwAQo&sclient=gws-wiz#kpvalbx=_hkk3ZNyhHZWoqtsPydSZ8Ao_46





still confused your saying to leave the evape core dirty no flush?

There’s a bunch of videos on flushing evape or am I misunderstanding you.or are you saying don’t flush w/ brake.cleaner

Earlier you mentioned the airasol flush maybe I misunderstood.



What type and quanity of back flush solvent do you use? Remember I’m only back flushing the evap. Core. Also remember the orifci fliter didn’t have specs of metal.



Definitely won’t use brake clean.



Mite be time to invest in a small air compressor but realy don’t have the space to store it.



I believe this super cool liquid solvent requires a canister and clean compressed air.

If I get one or rent/borrow is there a fliter that cleans the air before it flushes parts?

https://www.zoro.com/supercool-air-conditioning-fast-flush-can-32oz-ffq/i/G0595357/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=surfaces&utm_campaign=shopping feed&utm_content=free google shopping clicks&gclid=CjwKCAjwrdmhBhBBEiwA4Hx5g7TGDz5Rpou2Deri6QzUo6sfFGiMmU9QC-6tuRvpbB2sM7jbtU2nchoCeiEQAvD_BwE



apparently even the airasol type solvent still requires clean compressed air. Thanks again Mooseman
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,649
Ottawa, ON
Never use brake cleaner to flush. Evap I wouldn't do because of the internal.passages. If there hasn't been a catastrophic failure, I'd leave it alone.

This system is a CCOT. Cycling Clutch Orifice Tube. So yes, it's a cycling clutch.
 

Sprung Monkey

Original poster
Member
Oct 12, 2017
358
Al
I've got the AC on hold right now the lack of inverted torq bit stopped me plus still confussed w/ oil issue.
this is the best vid. I watched so far he explains the differnt type of compressors
if I understand this man correctly the cyyclying type requires oil in more than just the compressor

right now I'm concerned w/ my rear suspension bottoming out in my new thread.
to be continued on AC thanks





 

Sprung Monkey

Original poster
Member
Oct 12, 2017
358
Al
So even though my compressor has the drain plug but doesn’t have the plug/switch on back (as this man explains at 15minute mark) my compressor is not variable displacement.

It is a cycleing (as Mooseman explains) so half of total sys. oil goe’s into compressor other half into the dryer or evape depending on if you have orifce or expansion. Since I have orifice other half of oil goe’s in dryer.
I'm leaning toward Moosemans an Haynes advice oil each part 5oz comp (maybe 6oz) 2oz in dryer 1oz evape
1oz condenser in conclusion I could be 1oz overfilled.
or should I drain 1oz from comp.?

edit: will flush evap. w/ the airasol can of solvent
thanks again Mooseman


Refenceing this video bc it’s one of the more detailed.




thanks for advice
 

Sprung Monkey

Original poster
Member
Oct 12, 2017
358
Al
I’d like to back flush my ACs evape core all other parts are new.

Plan to use airasol flush though top port at firewall the lower port has the orifci fliter so I will be back flushing.

Besides reusing evape core will reuse the metal line from top of condenser to input of orifce.will flush it to in both directions



After spraying the flush will blow out solvent w/ a miniature air compressor, I think the small rubber cone on air compressors dispenser will be just big enough to seal the firewall port if not I’ll duck tape.

How doe’s my plan sound?thanks
 

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Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,649
Ottawa, ON
I guess it's fine to flush the evap core.
 

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